(17 Jan 2014, 6:16 pm)citaro5284 wrote Am I right in hearing that the Arriva real time app actually works on journey numbers and does not look at the full running boards. So if a service is operating late, lets say going into Newcastle as a X4, and the bus is leaving Newcastle as an X5, and the bus is running late, because the driver has not keyed in the journey details of the X5 trip, the real time system thinks it is on time?

If running boards are used, the system knows what journey the bus is going onto and in this case, lets people at the Haymarket know it is running late.

If this is the case, it does seem a bit short sighted.

As far as I understand it does indeed work on journey numbers yeah

(17 Jan 2014, 6:16 pm)citaro5284 wrote Am I right in hearing that the Arriva real time app actually works on journey numbers and does not look at the full running boards. So if a service is operating late, lets say going into Newcastle as a X4, and the bus is leaving Newcastle as an X5, and the bus is running late, because the driver has not keyed in the journey details of the X5 trip, the real time system thinks it is on time?

If running boards are used, the system knows what journey the bus is going onto and in this case, lets people at the Haymarket know it is running late.

If this is the case, it does seem a bit short sighted.

What, a Blyth bus stay on the same running board all day - give ower man, that's why the branded buses are aal ower the place as they get chopped and changed all day

I think Arriva should implement the policy of exact fare only unless the fare or ticket is £5 or more between 7am and 9am; then between 3pm and 6pm. It would massively improve journey times and performance and certainly keep buses running to time.

(17 Jan 2014, 6:16 pm)citaro5284 wrote Am I right in hearing that the Arriva real time app actually works on journey numbers and does not look at the full running boards. So if a service is operating late, lets say going into Newcastle as a X4, and the bus is leaving Newcastle as an X5, and the bus is running late, because the driver has not keyed in the journey details of the X5 trip, the real time system thinks it is on time?

If running boards are used, the system knows what journey the bus is going onto and in this case, lets people at the Haymarket know it is running late.

If this is the case, it does seem a bit short sighted.

Considering it doesn't feed ANY Local Authority real time systems yet, this isn't an issue.

However, I asked someone who would know and I am told that it reports via the app on journey number, but any real time system feed does work by board. So yes, once it feeds Nexus', County Durham or Connect Tees Valley real time system, it will be accurate, but in your hand, you can only see the actual journey currently in operation for now.

It's still a lot better than anything else that's out there in the North East. Some operators don't even know where their buses are when they're asked where they are. I made good use of it today and only went out for my bus when I could see it was a couple of minutes away. Certainly saves standing in the cold.

(17 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I think Arriva should implement the policy of exact fare only unless the fare or ticket is £5 or more between 7am and 9am; then between 3pm and 6pm. It would massively improve journey times and performance and certainly keep buses running to time.

Totally disagree. Thought this sort of attitude towards customers went out soon after deregulation. It's one of the reasons Cleveland Transit lost so much custom to the likes of TMS, Delta, Robson etc.

Bit of promotion going on with Metro on their fb page at the moment.

Metro Radio

24 minutes ago

Arriva make’s bus travel easy with their new App! For your chance to win an amazing Apple prize package and to find out more information on How Arriva can get you from A to B. Click here: http://bit.ly/KCJGS8

The post on the fb page features the grammatical errors that appears in the quote above...

(17 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I think Arriva should implement the policy of exact fare only unless the fare or ticket is £5 or more between 7am and 9am; then between 3pm and 6pm. It would massively improve journey times and performance and certainly keep buses running to time.

I agree that it would improve journey times and performance, as nobody would be using the Arriva services for that reason.

regarding the Arriva Bus App live feed:

1, when the Arriva bus misses out an estate of where the bus goes, it still shows up on the App that the bus went through the estate even though the bus by passed the estate.

2, I was on board Arriva service 24 from Sunderland last week and the bus didn't even show up on the App and also leaving Sunderland the service 23 coming into sunderland wasn't shown on the live feed either.

(18 Jan 2014, 2:53 pm)cbma06 wrote regarding the Arriva Bus App live feed:


2, I was on board Arriva service 24 from Sunderland last week and the bus didn't even show up on the App and also leaving Sunderland the service 23 coming into sunderland wasn't shown on the live feed either.

I have heard that if the driver keys in the wrong journey number by accident, it does not show on the app, so this may be the cause.

(18 Jan 2014, 4:22 pm)citaro5284 wrote I have heard that if the driver keys in the wrong journey number by accident, it does not show on the app, so this may be the cause.

I think there's still a few teething issues with the GPS systems linking with the Wayfarer software which may explain a few vehicles that still don't show up on the live app. They are in the process of being sorted though.

The way the Wayfarer software login works on the machines you have to enter your duty number and then all of your trips are displayed in a list so there shouldn't be any instances of wrong journey numbers being entered.... I believe the standard duties are only set up though as on Christmas Eve (for example) we had no vehicles showing at Stockton due to the non-standard duty numbers for that day. Someone else may be able to explain better than me...

(18 Jan 2014, 5:27 pm)tyresmoke wrote The way the Wayfarer software login works on the machines you have to enter your duty number and then all of your trips are displayed in a list so there shouldn't be any instances of wrong journey numbers being entered.... I believe the standard duties are only set up though as on Christmas Eve (for example) we had no vehicles showing at Stockton due to the non-standard duty numbers for that day. Someone else may be able to explain better than me...

That does make sense, are the journey numbers linked to route codes, ie if you put 24 do you just get 24 journey numbers up, or do you just get a long list for all journey numbers irrespective of route code?

(18 Jan 2014, 5:32 pm)citaro5284 wrote That does make sense, are the journey numbers linked to route codes, ie if you put 24 do you just get 24 journey numbers up, or do you just get a long list for all journey numbers irrespective of route code?

The journey numbers will be linked to each route I would guess yeah as each of them are '1001' onwards as far as I know... So I assume the actual journey number will be in the form of '241001' or similar.
For example on Monday I will put in PIN number then my duty number and then select the trip from the list displayed on the screen (21A 1245, 21A 1414 etc etc).
It's a lot different from the ERG set up I used at Stagecoach (and I assume GNEs will be very similar to that) where you had to select the route manually then enter a journey number.

(18 Jan 2014, 5:46 pm)tyresmoke wrote The journey numbers will be linked to each route I would guess yeah as each of them are '1001' onwards as far as I know... So I assume the actual journey number will be in the form of '241001' or similar.
For example on Monday I will put in PIN number then my duty number and then select the trip from the list displayed on the screen (21A 1245, 21A 1414 etc etc).
It's a lot different from the ERG set up I used at Stagecoach (and I assume GNEs will be very similar to that) where you had to select the route manually then enter a journey number.

Yes, GNE is like Stagecoach whereby the route codes are entered independently from journey numbers, also, am I right in thinking that Arriva journey numbers are the actually departure times. GNE use a slightly different method whereby anything less than 8000 is commercial and anything above is normally Nexus secured.

(18 Jan 2014, 2:48 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote I agree that it would improve journey times and performance, as nobody would be using the Arriva services for that reason.

Exact fare systems work very well in urban areas where people are used to them, eg. West Midlands, Ipswich, and in London if you didn't have an Oyster card it was coins in the roadside machine. It certainly speeds up services and encourages people to get seasons or prepayment cards. It also stops the inconsiderate morons giving drivers £10 or even £20 notes for tiny fares thinking they are a bank and have hundreds of pounds of change at 8am. My rule of thumb was always that notes were acceptable for fares more than half the value of the note. I always asked those who proffered tenners if that was the smallest they had and 2 times out of 3 they found near enough the right money.

(18 Jan 2014, 5:51 pm)citaro5284 wrote Yes, GNE is like Stagecoach whereby the route codes are entered independently from journey numbers, also, am I right in thinking that Arriva journey numbers are the actually departure times. GNE use a slightly different method whereby anything less than 8000 is commercial and anything above is normally Nexus secured.

Certainly at Stockton the journey numbers are 1001, 1002, 1003 etc and not the actual departure times (which is what Stagecoach use). Secured stuff tends to be in 9000 up over.

(18 Jan 2014, 5:52 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote Exact fare systems work very well in urban areas where people are used to them, eg. West Midlands, Ipswich, and in London if you didn't have an Oyster card it was coins in the roadside machine. It certainly speeds up services and encourages people to get seasons or prepayment cards. It also stops the inconsiderate morons giving drivers £10 or even £20 notes for tiny fares thinking they are a bank and have hundreds of pounds of change at 8am. My rule of thumb was always that notes were acceptable for fares more than half the value of the note. I always asked those who proffered tenners if that was the smallest they had and 2 times out of 3 they found near enough the right money.

I totally agree with you. Take the 308 for example, very popular high capacity route serving many key places that is quick but when burdened by delays, it can be a nightmare. When people don't board with the correct fare or worse don't have the fare ready, then by the time they've paid their fare, a big queue forms meaning that the bus gets full very quickly as it's supposed to otherwise it wouldn't make any money but, you then have St Mary's Place to contend with after Haymarket and it gets worse. Passengers need to be there for when the bus is due at peak times Monday to Saturday with the exact fare ready to board and sit down ASAP unless the fare or ticket is £5 or more. It would also be helpful for Arriva to publish their fares so passengers know what they're going to pay when they go for the bus.

(18 Jan 2014, 7:23 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I totally agree with you. Take the 308 for example, very popular high capacity route serving many key places that is quick but when burdened by delays, it can be a nightmare. When people don't board with the correct fare or worse don't have the fare ready, then by the time they've paid their fare, a big queue forms meaning that the bus gets full very quickly as it's supposed to otherwise it wouldn't make any money but, you then have St Mary's Place to contend with after Haymarket and it gets worse. Passengers need to be there for when the bus is due at peak times Monday to Saturday with the exact fare ready to board and sit down ASAP unless the fare or ticket is £5 or more. It would also be helpful for Arriva to publish their fares so passengers know what they're going to pay when they go for the bus.

I think all bus companies should publish their faretables for the public to see and then the passenger will know how much it is for their journey, single or return journeys and not just day, weekly or monthly tickets, might make boarding the bus a lot quicker if the passenger states the fare and destination and have the right change to hand. (otherwise bring the conductors back lol)

The bus companies should put the faretable in with the timetable of the bus service instead of all these advertisements in timetables.

(18 Jan 2014, 7:41 pm)cbma06 wrote I think all bus companies should publish their faretables for the public to see and then the passenger will know how much it is for their journey, single or return journeys and not just day, weekly or monthly tickets, might make boarding the bus a lot quicker if the passenger states the fare and destination and have the right change to hand. (otherwise bring the conductors back lol)

It would help if all bus companies went for a simple zonal fare system, with a maximum of perhaps three zones on long distance services and possibly only one or two on shorter routes, with all fares, single, return and rovers based on the zones. First in Norwich did it years ago, basically £1.10 for short distance single or within city centre, £2.40 for any other single, £3.80 for a two-trip ticket (could be two journeys on different routes or used as a return) or £4.80 Day Ticket. (these were the prices last summer, I think fares have recently been increased, don't know by how much). You could go over 15 miles with a £2.40 single. Simple, and mainly good value except a bit expensive for shorter journeys longer than the the short hop fare (but of course in London it's £2.40 if you board a bus and haven't got an oyster card.)

And why do people with concession passes get paper tickets; stopping that would speed up boarding times if they went paperless like other tickets are.

Arriva 321 buses through St Albans to Luton Airport are ticketless for free pass holders.

(18 Jan 2014, 8:03 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote And why do people with concession passes get paper tickets; stopping that would speed up boarding times if they went paperless like other tickets are.

I think its due to the ticket being a receipt for travel.

(18 Jan 2014, 8:00 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote It would help if all bus companies went for a simple zonal fare system, with a maximum of perhaps three zones on long distance services and possibly only one or two on shorter routes, with all fares, single, return and rovers based on the zones. First in Norwich did it years ago, basically £1.10 for short distance single or within city centre, £2.40 for any other single, £3.80 for a two-trip ticket (could be two journeys on different routes or used as a return) or £4.80 Day Ticket. (these were the prices last summer, I think fares have recently been increased, don't know by how much). You could go over 15 miles with a £2.40 single. Simple, and mainly good value except a bit expensive for shorter journeys longer than the the short hop fare (but of course in London it's £2.40 if you board a bus and haven't got an oyster card.)

Arriva North East should take a leap into GNE fare maps and prices etc...

(18 Jan 2014, 8:33 pm)cbma06 wrote Arriva North East should take a leap into GNE fare maps and prices etc...

In what way do they not display these already? Admittedly the website could be improved but all fare zone maps are on there as are the day ticket / week ticket prices.

(18 Jan 2014, 5:56 pm)tyresmoke wrote Certainly at Stockton the journey numbers are 1001, 1002, 1003 etc and not the actual departure times (which is what Stagecoach use). Secured stuff tends to be in 9000 up over.

Ive asked the question and can confirm that journey numbers are set up as the following;

Within each service, at each depot, the following apply
Monday to Friday journeys take numbers 1-999
Saturday journeys take 1001-1999
Sunday journeys take 2001 - 2999
Bank Holiday journeys take 3001-3999
4000+ journey numbers are generally used for Xmas and New Year service patterns.

The numbers are directional too. Odd numbers are outbound and even numbers are inbound. (Outbound is usually the first direction shown in the timetable).

So as an example, journey 1023 on Service 308 is a Saturday journey, outbound (probably towards Blyth) and will be the 12th journey of the day in that direction. Journey 2010 will be an inbound Sunday journey, 5th one of the day.

(18 Jan 2014, 5:52 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote Exact fare systems work very well in urban areas where people are used to them, eg. West Midlands, Ipswich, and in London if you didn't have an Oyster card it was coins in the roadside machine. It certainly speeds up services and encourages people to get seasons or prepayment cards. It also stops the inconsiderate morons giving drivers £10 or even £20 notes for tiny fares thinking they are a bank and have hundreds of pounds of change at 8am. My rule of thumb was always that notes were acceptable for fares more than half the value of the note. I always asked those who proffered tenners if that was the smallest they had and 2 times out of 3 they found near enough the right money.

Bit harsh isn't it? Do you think people purposely try and pay with a £10 or £20 note, or do you think it's simply because they have nothing smaller? I must be missing all these cash machines that dispense withdrawals in coins.

The bus industry is stuck in the past when it comes to payment methods. The developed world has long since moved on from cash payments, yet we still seem to insist on it on the buses. Faire enough, I can buy a day m-Ticket from Arriva or GNE, but there's nothing in place if I only want to make a single or return journey. We should have had a smart card capable (and in service!) of storing credit 10 years ago.

(18 Jan 2014, 11:12 pm)aureolin wrote Bit harsh isn't it? Do you think people purposely try and pay with a £10 or £20 note, or do you think it's simply because they have nothing smaller? I must be missing all these cash machines that dispense withdrawals in coins.

The bus industry is stuck in the past when it comes to payment methods. The developed world has long since moved on from cash payments, yet we still seem to insist on it on the buses. Faire enough, I can buy a day m-Ticket from Arriva or GNE, but there's nothing in place if I only want to make a single or return journey. We should have had a smart card capable (and in service!) of storing credit 10 years ago.

Well I think The Key is capable of doing it (judging by the FAQs page as attached on Para 1) but still not in service...

(18 Jan 2014, 11:19 pm)Dan wrote Well I think The Key is capable of doing it (judging by the FAQs page as attached on Para 1) but still not in service...

Yeah, the POP cards for Metro are capable of it too, and would work on GNE/Arriva/Stagecoach ticket machines. Just disappointing that it doesn't look to be anywhere near ready, despite the benefits it would present to both customer and company.

(18 Jan 2014, 11:22 pm)aureolin wrote Yeah, the POP cards for Metro are capable of it too, and would work on GNE/Arriva/Stagecoach ticket machines. Just disappointing that it doesn't look to be anywhere near ready, despite the benefits it would present to both customer and company.

NESTI is in the process of making sure all companies are smart card ready... They're a long way behind with rolling out a region wide smart card though I think!

(18 Jan 2014, 11:29 pm)tyresmoke wrote NESTI is in the process of making sure all companies are smart card ready... They're a long way behind with rolling out a region wide smart card though I think!

By the time it's up and running we'll still be 10 years behind, as we're at the beginning of the contactless payment boom now. The TFL Oyster readers on the buses accept contactless payment now, and it apparently works extremely well.