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(19 Feb 2022, 8:23 pm)RobinHood wrote I am told tonight, from a reliable source that Arriva have ordered 19 E400 MMC and 14 E200 MMC for delivery by the summer.I'm I actually reading this correctly. Arriva & ordered do not mix
These will replace the elderly double deckers at Ashington/Newcastle and the Solos at Newcastle ready for the CAZ.
(20 Feb 2022, 2:45 am)omnicity4659 wrote Is the X10/X11 move to Ashington still happening? Could be new buses for that, cascading the Geminis to the 35 and current Jesmond routes.
(20 Feb 2022, 8:30 am)Storx wrote Don't believe so, it never made sense anyway.Would Arriva not want to use the same vehicle type on the 306 & 308 though? As it stands, you'd be correct if they remained standalone. The 308 for timekeeping and suitable layovers would need a PVR of 8 and the 306 would need a PVR of 7.
Whatever happens though Blyth needs more Decker's for the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308 as they have to be all Decker operated when the depot changes come around as there's no space for singles at the new Blyth depot. Only 15 spots and they're pretty much guaranteed to be the Streetlite's for the 52/53/54 which are supposedly moving across.
If I had to make a guess though I'd guess
7x - 306 (Reduced to every 20 minutes)
7628 - 7635 - 308 (Also reduced to every 20 minutes)
(20 Feb 2022, 9:40 am)L469 YVK wrote Would Arriva not want to use the same vehicle type on the 306 & 308 though? As it stands, you'd be correct if they remained standalone. The 308 for timekeeping and suitable layovers would need a PVR of 8 and the 306 would need a PVR of 7.
A PVR drop from 18 to 15 vehicles is less than 20%. Now the 308 could 'just' run on a PVR of 7 if the Haymarket layover was reduced to 7 minutes, giving an extra minute to Blyth increasing it to 4 minutes. But if they wanted to make bigger savings whilst keeping suitable layovers, they'd need to eventually pull the 306 out Battle Hill Drive and keep both on the Coast Road. Interworking on a PVR of 14, they'd have the following layovers compared to current Monday-Friday frequency:
- Haymarket = 8 minutes (same as 308 currently gets and an extra minute for 306)
- Whitley Bay (306) = 5 minutes (same as current half-hourly 306 runs to Whitley Bay get)
- Blyth (308) = 13 minutes (same as 308 currently gets)
Not forgetting that if the 308 ran standalone with a PVR of 8 and didn't interwork with the 306, a round trip would be 2hr 40m. That would limit driving hours as 2x round trips would push it close to the 5hr 30m limit. Interworking the 306 & 308 with the 306 taken out of Battle Hill but still serving Whitley Bay would be a 4hr 40m round trip.
And for the work that the 306 & 308 do, E400MMCs are too heavy duty. StreetDecks would be more than ample.
(20 Feb 2022, 9:57 am)Storx wrote Btw wouldn't the round trip for the 308 just be 4 hours 55 mins or so, just depends how you do the layovers really - I do believe they'll interwork though eventually with a PVR 15 though when it moves.I get your first one, it would work something like this:
Blyth -> Newcastle (1 Hour 5 Mins) - 7.5 Min Layover
Newcastle -> Blyth (1 Hour 5 Mins) - 22.5 Min Layover
Blyth -> Newcastle (1 Hour 5 Mins) - 7.5 Min Layover
Newcastle -> Blyth (1 Hour 5 Mins) - end of shift (22.5 layover with no staff).
Eventually I think it'll be roughly
Blyth -> Newcastle (1 Hour 6 Mins) - 10 Min Layover
Newcastle -> Whitley Bay (1 Hour 2 Mins) - 16 Min Layover
Whitley Bay -> Newcastle (1 Hour 2 Mins) - 10 Min Layover
Newcastle -> Blyth (1 Hour 6 Mins) - end of shift (8 Min Layover)
Just worked it out there's not much more you can do with keeping the buses every 10 minutes in both directions.
(20 Feb 2022, 11:03 am)L469 YVK wrote I get your first one, it would work something like this:
- Blyth: 00:00
- Newcastle: 01:06
- Newcastle: 01:14
- Blyth: 02:17 >> 23 min layover
- Blyth: 02:40
- Newcastle: 03:46
- Newcastle: 03:54
- Blyth: 04:57
The only thing I'd say to the above is that if Arriva wanted to reduce frequency and 'give way' to GNE becoming the 'lead' Coast Road operator (every 6-7 mins vs every 10 mins), they'd want to reduce costs as much as possible to compensate. But saying that, reliability with a longer layover in Blyth would go some way to improve reliability.
I'd even suggest Arriva & GNE go one step further if the CMA allowed (regardless of BSIP) and create more harmony with the 308 & 309 including ticketing.
(20 Feb 2022, 11:13 am)Storx wrote Btw the 5 mins at Whitley would be too tight I think, if it loses time then it's buggared until it gets back to Blyth if their working together the layover really needs to be there imo, not to mention stand clashes at Haymarket.Or taking advantage of a longer layover, perhaps re-route away from Marden Quarry and straight down Mast Lane through Cullercoats and up Whitley Road to provide a combined frequency with GNE's 1?
(20 Feb 2022, 12:31 pm)L469 YVK wrote Or taking advantage of a longer layover, perhaps re-route away from Marden Quarry and straight down Mast Lane through Cullercoats and up Whitley Road to provide a combined frequency with GNE's 1?
Going back to orders, I'd be surprised to see any new deckers heading to Jesmond. But.....that could be the case, if Arriva perhaps want to see 7401-7406 out until they're 8 year old and then potentially look at a large OM936 StreetDeck order for the X15/X18/X93 although E400MMCs would be ok for the first 2x routes.
I do hope that if Arriva order the E400MMC they go for ZF gearboxes & 10.9m length.
(20 Feb 2022, 12:31 pm)L469 YVK wrote I do hope that if Arriva order the E400MMC they go for ZF gearboxes & 10.9m length.
(19 Feb 2022, 8:23 pm)RobinHood wrote I am told tonight, from a reliable source that Arriva have ordered 19 E400 MMC and 14 E200 MMC for delivery by the summer.
These will replace the elderly double deckers at Ashington/Newcastle and the Solos at Newcastle ready for the CAZ.
(20 Feb 2022, 9:16 pm)9920up wrote It could be , based on the suggested numbers alone, the E200s could go directly to see off the more elderly vehicles in the fleet, namely the squadron of Omnicities, that will be, by Summer, well into their 18th year.
(20 Feb 2022, 3:52 pm)mb134 wrote Not that they won't opt for ZF now that they can have stop start with a ZF setup, but the current MMCs with Voith 'boxes are fantastic performers on anything they're thrown at. Reasonably good acceleration on stop-start work, but equally more than happy sitting at 60 on dual carriageways.Funnily enough, Voiths would be ideal for the exact routes (bar the X10) that GNE use their E400MMCs on for the likes of Lobley Hill Bank, Dunston Bank, parts of Derwentside etc. Likewise, Stagecoach use them as they're off the mark around the doors. Flat out though, ZF is a better performer.
(20 Feb 2022, 11:22 pm)L469 YVK wrote Funnily enough, Voiths would be ideal for the exact routes (bar the X10) that GNE use their E400MMCs on for the likes of Lobley Hill Bank, Dunston Bank, parts of Derwentside etc. Likewise, Stagecoach use them as they're off the mark around the doors. Flat out though, ZF is a better performer.
Arriva with their Dennis Tridents/E400/E400MMC went:
- Dennis Trident ALX400 - Voith
- Enviro 400 Classic - ZF
- Enviro 400 MMC - Voith
(21 Feb 2022, 12:47 am)mb134 wrote Do you have much experience driving the Voith equipped MMCs that Arriva have? Drivers I've talked to at Ashington much prefer the MMCs with their Voith boxes on express work to pretty much anything else. Ultimately, they hold 60 on long dual carriageway stretches (i.e A1 Gosforth to Clifton, or A189 Moor Farm to North Seaton) more than comfortably, and it never sounds as if the engine is too strained.But why did Arriva originally move away from Voith to ZF instead of going for Voith in the classic E400s? Obviously enhanced BSOG made the decision quite easy for the case of going down the Voith S/S route for the E400MMC.
Mechanically those MMCs are rock solid too, so unless there's a substantial cost difference or something along those lines, I don't see why they'd switch away from a reliable setup.
