(07 Mar 2022, 5:40 pm)Dan wrote The 55 hasn't served Silksworth since the 33 was reinstated - appreciating the 33 has been on and off more times over the years than you and I put together have had bacon sarnies!

There's no unique sections of route on the 55 other than the peak-time link to Doxford International - arguably the link to Sunderland exists with the 39, it's just towards Houghton-le-Spring where there is no alternative.

GNE could try something new with the 55, taking it from Peterlee. Sherburn, Low Pittington, Houghton, Sunderland.

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So with the X1 going back to old times, I wonder if the 20 will stay at every 15 mins. 

Personally I would put the Sunderland - Durham at every 10 mins, with 3ph extending to South Shields.

(07 Mar 2022, 5:39 pm)Omega54 wrote I also think the X10 extension to Seaham, wouldn't do much to harm passengers as if they haven't chose to get the train a extra 10 mins isn't going to push them and get more passengers as it is roughly faster than the train, and 1/3 of the price.

That's one hell of a diversion. You're adding at least 15 minutes to the total journey time (assuming it's going along the Sea Front, and depending on route), forcing buses along Seaton Lane which is incredibly congested and at times can take you 10-15 minutes just to get from the A19 to the crossroads at the school, and it'll use the horrific sliproads and associated junctions at Seaton, which are bad enough in a car.

Wouldn't it just be better to offer through tickets for the X6?

(07 Mar 2022, 5:43 pm)Omega54 wrote GNE could try something new with the 55, taking it from Peterlee. Sherburn, Low Pittington, Houghton, Sunderland.

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So with the X1 going back to old times, I wonder if the 20 will stay at every 15 mins. 

Personally I would put the Sunderland - Durham at every 10 mins, with 3ph extending to South Shields.

The x20 could divert via Doxford to do the peak runs on the 55 if the 55 set to be withdrawn

I would of extended the 35 from low moorsley to sherburn via low and high pittington

I would chop the 20 at Sunderland and have the x20 going to shields, and chop the x20 at Durham and extend the 204/204a ( change number) to Langley park


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(07 Mar 2022, 5:53 pm)F114TML wrote That's one hell of a diversion. You're adding at least 15 minutes to the total journey time (assuming it's going along the Sea Front, and depending on route), forcing buses along Seaton Lane which is incredibly congested and at times can take you 10-15 minutes just to get from the A19 to the crossroads at the school, and it'll use the horrific sliproads and associated junctions at Seaton, which are bad enough in a car.

Wouldn't it just be better to offer through tickets for the X6?

You would think an operator with an ounce of common sense would find out where those cars are going to and from and work out why the once hourly 71 gets stuck in there every single day.
Maybe doing something about it.

They can only come and go in one of two directions and I'd hazard a guess that a big chunk are travelling between Seaham and Doxford Park. 
Two buses or a bit of inconvenience in the car on Seaton Lane? Hmm. Its a toughy.

(07 Mar 2022, 5:55 pm)cbma06 wrote The x20 could divert via Doxford to do the peak runs on the 55 if the 55 set to be withdrawn

I would of extended the 35 from low moorsley to sherburn via low and high pittington

I would chop the 20 at Sunderland and have the x20 going to shields, and chop the x20 at Durham and extend the 204/204a ( change number) to Langley park


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I wouldn't put the X20 to Shields as there is enough demand for every 20 mins, but too much for every 30 mins, and it isn't really an express tbh from Sunderland to South Sheilds. And When I have been on the X20 the amount of people that stay on especially coming from new College Durham is highly surprising. 

Could you not have a 39/39A/40/40A they are loops around Doxford Park-Doxford Park the same way each one goes now, just its. a loop and a new 40/40A would do the other way. As that would give a lot of of a direct service.

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(07 Mar 2022, 5:53 pm)F114TML wrote That's one hell of a diversion. You're adding at least 15 minutes to the total journey time (assuming it's going along the Sea Front, and depending on route), forcing buses along Seaton Lane which is incredibly congested and at times can take you 10-15 minutes just to get from the A19 to the crossroads at the school, and it'll use the horrific sliproads and associated junctions at Seaton, which are bad enough in a car.

Wouldn't it just be better to offer through tickets for the X6?

Possibly, but you could just do it to the Mill Inn. And It would be used as it is roughly faster than the train. Yes it can get busy but with it being every hour, if you time it to come at around 17:00 to Middlesbrough it should just miss it.

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(07 Mar 2022, 5:58 pm)Andreos1 wrote You would think an operator with an ounce of common sense would find out where those cars are going to and from and work out why the once hourly 71 gets stuck in there every single day.
Maybe doing something about it.

They can only come and go in one of two directions and I'd hazard a guess that a big chunk are travelling between Seaham and Doxford Park. 
Two buses or a bit of inconvenience in the car on Seaton Lane? Hmm. Its a toughy.

Maybe that could be a 55 route, Sunderland - Doxford - Seaham Harbour - Easington - Peterlee. Or do a seperate X60, which goes from Parkside, Seaham, A19, Doxford, Sunderland

Gives connections from people who go to Sunderland College, Doxford Park, Seaham and Parkside. Every 30 mins. But also it could prove to be useful as a express to have it miss out Dawdon Bridge. And possibly might be able to get Double Deckers on it, with the traffic from Sunderland College, + A690 + Doxford + Seaham, might be quicker than the 60. And everyone loves to jump on what they think it is express bus.

(07 Mar 2022, 5:55 pm)cbma06 wrote The x20 could divert via Doxford to do the peak runs on the 55 if the 55 set to be withdrawn

I would of extended the 35 from low moorsley to sherburn via low and high pittington

I would chop the 20 at Sunderland and have the x20 going to shields, and chop the x20 at Durham and extend the 204/204a ( change number) to Langley park


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I'd look at either diverting a 71 that way or sending one of the many Seaham - Sunderland buses on to the A19 between Doxford and Seaton myself.
Even if it was just peaks. 

Changing in the Ryhope area or going all the way to Park Lane and then back out, isn't very attractive for many passengers. 

Maybe looking at doing something different, rather than the same old.

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(07 Mar 2022, 4:49 pm)Drifter60 wrote Is the X1 trying to do too many things at once? The Sunday service whilst a good uplift from Newcastle to Washington, it means Washington to Easington Lane is left with two buses an hour still but now not equally split, with a 40 minute gap, arguably a lot worse than they have now.

Dalton Park link seems to have been cut a lot too, I almost wonder why they’ve bothered continue it? Looking at the timetable seems to be just operationally convenient. 

I still maintain that the X1 is confusing now “X1 to Easington Lane, Dalton Park, Peterlee, Washington Galleries” you sort of need to know the exact route of each variation, just to know will this one get you home!

The 55s days seems to be numbered. The X1 offering two buses an hour means it’s not as needed on that Houghton to Peterlee corridor as much. Plus it’s been took out of Doxford International outside peak times, so is just doing exactly the same as the 20/X20 do on daytime runs. So it’s now just duplicating other routes across all sections. I wonder if once the 20 goes back to normal timetable, it’ll be a case of “the 55 is no longer needed as we’ve increased our popular X1 and 20 services across all sections of the 55 route”. Peterlee to Sunderland passengers have the X6 as the quicker option in any case.

Sorry, missed this.

I've really wondered why they haven't pushed this route more.

On one hand they're saying the leisure market is the one they're aiming for (commuters aren't coming back apparently) and at the same time, they're not offering a route to and from this 'leisure' destination (which offers food, cinema and shopping) for the majority of the potential visitors living in the area.

There's cinemas, pubs, shops and restaurants crying out for customers and you've got a bus operator who could feed them with customers. Taking them away again at the end of the night.
Yet there's nothing.
No promotions. No partnerships. Nowt.

(07 Mar 2022, 5:55 pm)cbma06 wrote The x20 could divert via Doxford to do the peak runs on the 55 if the 55 set to be withdrawn

I would of extended the 35 from low moorsley to sherburn via low and high pittington

I would chop the 20 at Sunderland and have the x20 going to shields, and chop the x20 at Durham and extend the 204/204a ( change number) to Langley park


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Personally I'd get shot of the X20 altogether and clean up the corridor there and have the following routes.

20 - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Houghton Le Spring -> Dene Gardens -> Middle Rainton -> A690 -> Carrville -> Gilesgate -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
20A - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Doxford Park -> Houghton Le Spring -> Rainton Arena -> Middle Rainton -> West Rainton -> Carrville -> A690 -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
65 - Extended to Langley Park (Every 30 Mins)
35 - Evening route missing Rainton Arena (Every 30 Mins)
55 - Withdrawn (Nothing unique and alternatives exist with the X1, 62, 35 and 20/20A)

The PVR should be about the same and the 20/20A will be slightly quicker than it is now for most people with a better frequency on the South Shields ends (or you could drop it down to 20 minutes if it's not needed).

(07 Mar 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd get shot of the X20 altogether and clean up the corridor there and have the following routes.

20 - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Houghton Le Spring -> Dene Gardens -> Middle Rainton -> A690 -> Carrville -> Gilesgate -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
20A - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Doxford Park -> Houghton Le Spring -> Rainton Arena -> Middle Rainton -> Leamside -> Carrville -> A690 -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
65 - Extended to Langley Park (Every 30 Mins)
35 - Evening route missing Rainton Arena (Every 30 Mins)
55 - Withdrawn (Nothing unique and alternatives exist with the X1, 62, 35 and 20/20A)

The PVR should be about the same and the 20/20A will be slightly quicker than it is now for most people with a better frequency on the South Shields ends (or you could drop it down to 20 minutes if it's not needed).

 But what would the 65 use? Also I think it is crucial for a x20, as a quick way to Durham.

(07 Mar 2022, 6:43 pm)Omega54 wrote  But what would the 65 use? Also I think it is crucial for a x20, as a quick way to Durham.

There’s not much difference between the 20 and x20, just that it doesn’t go via gilesgate. And the 20 goes via hall lane while the x20 goes via rainton bridge

Originally the 65 were intended to extend to Langley park under the government kickstart scheme many decades ago but didn’t as the scheme was stopped by the government


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(07 Mar 2022, 7:05 pm)cbma06 wrote There’s not much difference between the 20 and x20, just that it doesn’t go via gilesgate. And the 20 goes via hall lane while the x20 goes via rainton bridge

Originally the 65 were intended to extend to Langley park under the government kickstart scheme many decades ago but didn’t as the scheme was stopped by the government


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I think the perception is that the X20 is much faster - I know I will jump off the 20 that’s come from Shields at Park Lane and connect to an X20, as it gets to Durham quicker. Have seen others do it in the past too if they’ve seen the bus in, albeit not many.


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(07 Mar 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd get shot of the X20 altogether and clean up the corridor there and have the following routes.

20 - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Houghton Le Spring -> Dene Gardens -> Middle Rainton -> A690 -> Carrville -> Gilesgate -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
20A - South Shields -> Sunderland -> Doxford Park -> Houghton Le Spring -> Rainton Arena -> Middle Rainton -> Leamside -> Carrville -> A690 -> Durham (Every 20 Mins)
65 - Extended to Langley Park (Every 30 Mins)
35 - Evening route missing Rainton Arena (Every 30 Mins)
55 - Withdrawn (Nothing unique and alternatives exist with the X1, 62, 35 and 20/20A)

The PVR should be about the same and the 20/20A will be slightly quicker than it is now for most people with a better frequency on the South Shields ends (or you could drop it down to 20 minutes if it's not needed).

What happens to West Rainton?
How does the bus get from Leamside to Carville?

(07 Mar 2022, 6:43 pm)Omega54 wrote  But what would the 65 use? Also I think it is crucial for a x20, as a quick way to Durham.

Just looked at the 65 timetable and it wouldn't work so I'd integrate it into the 204/204A as someone else mentioned above instead.

The timings would be barely any different. Instead the 20 would be slightly quicker instead for everyone personally I'd take the route that is slightly longer but is turn up and go rather than one which is every 30 minutes and another which is every 15 minutes especially when the timings would be barely any difference. The only difference is the X20 would now serve West Rainton which takes roughly 5 minutes and Doxford Park which would take roughly 2 minutes.

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(07 Mar 2022, 7:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote What happens to West Rainton?
How does the bus get from Leamside to Carville?

I meant West Rainton not Leamside there sorry, my mistake changed it.

The x20 is turn up and go for me, currently! Like 100m from my front door turn up and go! Haven't caught it this year but it's been busy every time I've caught it previously and obviously GNE realised they were onto a good formula with it because lots of people do stay on to cross Durham City centre.

(07 Mar 2022, 7:09 pm)Dan wrote I think the perception is that the X20 is much faster - I know I will jump off the 20 that’s come from Shields at Park Lane and connect to an X20, as it gets to Durham quicker. Have seen others do it in the past too if they’ve seen the bus in, albeit not many.


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Isn’t that GNE brainwashing the zombies (cough cough passengers) thinking seeing an X it will get to your destination quicker only by matter of minutes, bring back the old x3 which was more of an express than the equivalent in todays money


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(07 Mar 2022, 4:00 pm)Dan wrote Yes, that's right - although the reason they haven't moved isn't just down to the Hybrids. There's also 4x ADL E400 off service at the moment, and no capacity within the paintshop to paint them!

into what livery are these 4x E400 going? Seem to be lots of vehicles being repainted only a short while after the previous repaint or from new

(07 Mar 2022, 8:36 pm)busmanT wrote into what livery are these 4x E400 going? Seem to be lots of vehicles being repainted only a short while after the previous repaint or from new

The E400s aren’t being repainted, they are off service for warranty repairs.

The aforementioned StreetDecks - 6331-33 and one new example - are the buses being referenced as due repaint.

The nature of buses being route branded means that if there is a lower PVR, a bus has to be repainted again… With the X47 replaced by 47/47A, then the X46 reduced in frequency, four fewer StreetDecks are now required.


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(07 Mar 2022, 7:15 pm)Storx wrote Just looked at the 65 timetable and it wouldn't work so I'd integrate it into the 204/204A as someone else mentioned above instead.

The timings would be barely any different. Instead the 20 would be slightly quicker instead for everyone personally I'd take the route that is slightly longer but is turn up and go rather than one which is every 30 minutes and another which is every 15 minutes especially when the timings would be barely any difference. The only difference is the X20 would now serve West Rainton which takes roughly 5 minutes and Doxford Park which would take roughly 2 minutes.

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I meant West Rainton not Leamside there sorry, my mistake changed it. 

Was gonna say. Thought you had some purple streetlites belting down some back lanes or something

Why are we suggesting bus cuts?

Suggesting bus cuts lead to job losses driving a bus and behind the scenes which eventually leads to bus depot closures

Think about suggesting closures and stating bus routes that are pointless

For every 30min bus service you effect approx 10 members of staff

From full time salary role to overtime opportunities

When Bus companies decide to close depots the daily commute for the staff

Be positive not negative and be realistic

(07 Mar 2022, 6:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote I'd look at either diverting a 71 that way or sending one of the many Seaham - Sunderland buses on to the A19 between Doxford and Seaton myself.
Even if it was just peaks. 

Changing in the Ryhope area or going all the way to Park Lane and then back out, isn't very attractive for many passengers. 

Maybe looking at doing something different, rather than the same old.

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Sorry, missed this.

I've really wondered why they haven't pushed this route more.

On one hand they're saying the leisure market is the one they're aiming for (commuters aren't coming back apparently) and at the same time, they're not offering a route to and from this 'leisure' destination (which offers food, cinema and shopping) for the majority of the potential visitors living in the area.

There's cinemas, pubs, shops and restaurants crying out for customers and you've got a bus operator who could feed them with customers. Taking them away again at the end of the night.
Yet there's nothing.
No promotions. No partnerships. Nowt.

They haven't pushed the route, nor have put the route past 7pm for people who are finishing late, and there is no X10. Or the X10 is too busy at Gateshead which does happen. I still stand by my Seaham idea, and you could use some of the older streetdecks as they don't really have a issue with a 16' plate on it every now and again. Going from seaham to newcastle, no only because it is much faster than the 56, but also it is a eXpress. 

Everytime I got on it, people were asking what is this service, even Washington drivers if you were going to Newcastle would say 'wait for the X10 it is much faster' even though you would have to have waited like 30 mins for it.

(08 Mar 2022, 12:55 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Why are we suggesting bus cuts?

Suggesting bus cuts lead to job losses driving a bus and behind the scenes which eventually leads to bus depot closures

Think about suggesting closures and stating bus routes that are pointless

For every 30min bus service you effect approx 10 members of staff

From full time salary role to overtime opportunities

When Bus companies decide to close depots the daily commute for the staff

Be positive not negative and be realistic

It was the bus companies that mentioned bus cuts, as the government funding going to end soon, and someone needs to pay for the high life for shareholders on there Caribbean third homes or huts (and running this country dry with there blood thirsted vampires for greed [emoji23] )


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(08 Mar 2022, 7:27 am)Omega54 wrote They haven't pushed the route, nor have put the route past 7pm for people who are finishing late, and there is no X10. Or the X10 is too busy at Gateshead which does happen. I still stand by my Seaham idea, and you could use some of the older streetdecks as they don't really have a issue with a 16' plate on it every now and again. Going from seaham to newcastle, no only because it is much faster than the 56, but also it is a eXpress.  

Everytime I got on it, people were asking what is this service, even Washington drivers if you were going to Newcastle would say 'wait for the X10 it is much faster' even though you would have to have waited like 30 mins for it.

I think the idea of diverting the X10 via Seaham has some potential for some passengers, but for others - it's making the journey even longer. Merging the X9 in to the X10 has added even more time to the timetable which was already extended to include Dalton Park.
To add another 15/20 mins isn't going to appeal to someone travelling to/from Stockton or Middlesbrough.
The journey is slow enough as it is.

Marketed correctly, they could push punters from Seaham on to the X10 via Dalton Park. There's more than enough buses between there and Seaham, so connections shouldn't be too difficult or troublesome. 

I think there's a fine balance between making something attractive for potential new passengers at the expense of making it less attractive for existing passengers.
The urge for cuts, consolidation and saving money by merging the X9 and 10 could already be having a negative effect on those existing passengers. It would take a brave person to annoy, frustrate or slow down their journeys even more.

(08 Mar 2022, 10:11 am)Andreos1 wrote I think the idea of diverting the X10 via Seaham has some potential for some passengers, but for others - it's making the journey even longer. Merging the X9 in to the X10 has added even more time to the timetable which was already extended to include Dalton Park.
To add another 15/20 mins isn't going to appeal to someone travelling to/from Stockton or Middlesbrough.
The journey is slow enough as it is.

Marketed correctly, they could push punters from Seaham on to the X10 via Dalton Park. There's more than enough buses between there and Seaham, so connections shouldn't be too difficult or troublesome. 

I think there's a fine balance between making something attractive for potential new passengers at the expense of making it less attractive for existing passengers.
The urge for cuts, consolidation and saving money by merging the X9 and 10 could already be having a negative effect on those existing passengers. It would take a brave person to annoy, frustrate or slow down their journeys even more.

Tbh, for X10 passengers when it merged with the X9 for every service, if that wasn't enough to drive passengers off I don't think an extra 15 mins will

(08 Mar 2022, 10:11 am)Andreos1 wrote I think the idea of diverting the X10 via Seaham has some potential for some passengers, but for others - it's making the journey even longer. Merging the X9 in to the X10 has added even more time to the timetable which was already extended to include Dalton Park.
To add another 15/20 mins isn't going to appeal to someone travelling to/from Stockton or Middlesbrough.
The journey is slow enough as it is.

Marketed correctly, they could push punters from Seaham on to the X10 via Dalton Park. There's more than enough buses between there and Seaham, so connections shouldn't be too difficult or troublesome. 

I think there's a fine balance between making something attractive for potential new passengers at the expense of making it less attractive for existing passengers.
The urge for cuts, consolidation and saving money by merging the X9 and 10 could already be having a negative effect on those existing passengers. It would take a brave person to annoy, frustrate or slow down their journeys even more.

Going via Seaham is problematic at the best of times IMO, as on a good day you're stuck in traffic - congestion-busting buses or not. There's also the issue that the X10 is far too long as it is, and given that customers have to pay a premium to use it, I really don't know how much they could keep extending it before people decide to save themselves some time and get the train instead. 

Better advertising connections, such as Seaham to Dalton Park for onwards connections, is the better idea. Whilst I think that the marketing of services has improved, I think on the most part it has been on an individual basis and rarely takes advantage of ongoing links. An example I gave a while ago now was the X1 to Dalton Park, and why the 65 isn't advertised as a frequent through-connection instead of waiting for an hourly service.

(08 Mar 2022, 12:27 pm)Adrian wrote Going via Seaham is problematic at the best of times IMO, as on a good day you're stuck in traffic - congestion-busting buses or not. There's also the issue that the X10 is far too long as it is, and given that customers have to pay a premium to use it, I really don't know how much they could keep extending it before people decide to save themselves some time and get the train instead. 

Better advertising connections, such as Seaham to Dalton Park for onwards connections, is the better idea. Whilst I think that the marketing of services has improved, I think on the most part it has been on an individual basis and rarely takes advantage of ongoing links. An example I gave a while ago now was the X1 to Dalton Park, and why the 65 isn't advertised as a frequent through-connection instead of waiting for an hourly service.

I constantly bring this up, no one knows it exist from dalton park, unless you actively look for it

No point in suggesting the X10 serves seaham, there is enough buses per hour to onnect seaham to dalton park for the once an hour X10, might as well re route it via boldon, fullwell, sunderland interchange, ryhope, byron place, spectrum business park as well if your going to suggest making the X10 even longer

(08 Mar 2022, 12:46 pm)N1cholas wrote No point in suggesting the X10 serves seaham, there is enough buses per hour to onnect seaham to dalton park for the once an hour X10, might as well re route it via boldon, fullwell, sunderland interchange, ryhope, byron place, spectrum business park as well if your going to suggest making the X10 even longer

Is that a bus service suggestion?, by that route it looks like the old X96 route, but will it serve Parkside in Seaham though [emoji23], jokes aside , GNE should be doing a lot more advertising connections on the branded buses if that service connects to other destinations, I would pull the x1 out of Dalton park and even any suggestion to extend the service to Seaham, there should be using the doubled in frequency bigger buses on the 65 to advertise the connections from Hetton bus station and also in and around Seaham


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Adding pretty much anywhere else into the X10 would require an extra bus and currently it's only around 30 minutes faster than the Arriva X12 for end to end journeys. I think the best we're going to get with the X10 for the foreseeable future is its current form.

Still always think advertising connections and other services can do wonders.

Not a service change as such but Peterlee outstation is closing at the end of March with services transferring to Deptford and a couple to Chester Le Street.

(08 Mar 2022, 4:32 pm)morritt89 wrote Not a service change as such but Peterlee outstation is closing at the end of March with services transferring to Deptford and a couple to Chester Le Street.

Wonder which services will go to CLS the only ones I think are the 204/59.

(08 Mar 2022, 4:32 pm)morritt89 wrote Not a service change as such but Peterlee outstation is closing at the end of March with services transferring to Deptford and a couple to Chester Le Street.

I’m surprised the depot wasn’t closed on the last bus changes in Peterlee as only a handful of buses are based there now


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