It’s interesting in a way that Go North East sort of went down the route of going into more generic route branding, using the company corporate style with just the route numbers, ie The 9 & The 49 but both no longer exist.
Did these brands exist because no one had any better ideas? No one came up with a good brand name for them and there was no ideas for a colour scheme?
Or was it a step towards gauging how a more generic corporate inspired branding style worked for a wider concept? Perhaps rebrand the whole fleet to that sort of style with perhaps a select few key core routes keeping a different style.

(31 Mar 2022, 1:13 pm)omnicity4659 wrote The awards that they basically give to themselves? 

Can't whack a bit of mutual back slapping now and again.

(31 Mar 2022, 1:32 pm)Drifter60 wrote It’s interesting in a way that Go North East sort of went down the route of going into more generic route branding, using the company corporate style with just the route numbers, ie The 9 & The 49 but both no longer exist.
Did these brands exist because no one had any better ideas? No one came up with a good brand name for them and there was no ideas for a colour scheme?
Or was it a step towards gauging how a more generic corporate inspired branding style worked for a wider concept? Perhaps rebrand the whole fleet to that sort of style with perhaps a select few key core routes keeping a different style.

It certainly felt like no one had any ideas and were doing it for the sake of it. The 9 (which was a previous name they'd already used for the service - not sure on the copyright for that photo, sorry) was definitely an improvement over The 49 which was just the corporate livery with a giant '49' slapped over the windows and a generic "buses run early till late" tagline - at least when it came to doing the Citaros they referenced shopping places the route served (The Bridges and Dalton Park) in the middle bit.

It would've been interesting had they gone down a similar route and maybe having a splash of colour on the front if they insisted on it - I think that could certainly work.

I like branding I think its nice.

However what is the point of corporate branding, if buses branded buses are just going to go onto the wrong route, I love branding my issue is the allocation everyone loves a rare working e.g Connections 4 on 21 (probs the first citaro ever on it). Or X10 Bus on 10A. I like that, but then you have depots like Deptford where it is just a utter mess with allocations. Obvs Consett is a bit different as ttheir X45/46/30/31/70/71/72 are pretty much the same colour. 

You always see a Prince Bishops on the 61, there was one on the 60 today however a corporate one was also on. I understand that breakdowns through the day that should be the only reasons that rare workings happen if there are breakdowns during the day.

I have mixed views on route branding, if it's done right then it really can make a difference but I feel now in places it's just done for the sake of branding and cos industry people spout that it's such a good thing.

I feel the biggest way to make an impact with a service is to really drive promotion of services such as leaflet drops, social media posts and general word of mouth, with route branding at the likes of Go North East on some routes it feels like they introduce liveries and then do very little with it beyond that.

One thing I hate with a lot of these new liveries is the service number is nowhere to be seen (although some companies have ditched service numbers altogether with some routes), another thing is the company names has also disappeared or is so miniscule it might as well not be there, one of the main things people identify a service with is the service number.

I personally ain't a fan of local identities as if there's multiple identities crossing one another, it begins to become confusing (especially if a bus with an identity strays onto another local identities route), I remember having an issue with a Transdev driver once on a branded route with no local identity applied and as I was unfamiliar with the area at the time I had no clue which Transdev page to direct the complaint to, is it Burnley or is it Blackburn?! Since then it could be Rosso and don't even ask where a complaint for their Ribble Country services go.

My favourite form of route brandings are ones that don't stray too far from a standard identity/livery, one of my personal favourites over the years was the 'Metro Coastlines' brand that Blackpool Transport adopted in the noughties where each route had the same yellow base accompanied by another colour (eg Line 1 was orange, Line 5 was red) and they also stated the main destinations served and also showed the service number: https://flic.kr/p/72wZdu .Many independents have a stronger recognised brand than most of the big firms do these days, you can see the likes of Weardale's fleet from a mile off (admittedly diluted slightly with much of the service fleet being just dealer stock White with just a logo on the front and maybe the rear).

I think constantly chopping and changing service numbers / liveries doesn't build up a strong profile for a route, about one of the biggest branding success stories is the 36 between Ripon, Harrogate & Leeds operated by Transdev, there's been little done to the route and the livery since they started, think they're on their third? proper livery adoption in 18? Years for the service with only so some small changes but sticking with marketing as a premium offering, then look at something like the Sunderland 61, the liveries have changed multiple times in half that time that Transdev have including having silver base liveried Citaros with no branding for a while and there's even more liveries to add when you include Sunday interworkings causing wrong brand workings such as Silver Arrow and Berries and then they made it service 9 for a while only to then go back to the 61 a short while later.

(31 Mar 2022, 10:11 pm)Jimmi wrote I have mixed views on route branding, if it's done right then it really can make a difference but I feel now in places it's just done for the sake of branding and cos industry people spout that it's such a good thing.

I feel the biggest way to make an impact with a service is to really drive promotion of services such as leaflet drops, social media posts and general word of mouth, with route branding at the likes of Go North East on some routes it feels like they introduce liveries and then do very little with it beyond that.

One thing I hate with a lot of these new liveries is the service number is nowhere to be seen (although some companies have ditched service numbers altogether with some routes), another thing is the company names has also disappeared or is so miniscule it might as well not be there, one of the main things people identify a service with is the service number.

I personally ain't a fan of local identities as if there's multiple identities crossing one another, it begins to become confusing (especially if a bus with an identity strays onto another local identities route), I remember having an issue with a Transdev driver once on a branded route with no local identity applied and as I was unfamiliar with the area at the time I had no clue which Transdev page to direct the complaint to, is it Burnley or is it Blackburn?! Since then it could be Rosso and don't even ask where a complaint for their Ribble Country services go.

My favourite form of route brandings are ones that don't stray too far from a standard identity/livery, one of my personal favourites over the years was the 'Metro Coastlines' brand that Blackpool Transport adopted in the noughties where each route had the same yellow base accompanied by another colour (eg Line 1 was orange, Line 5 was red) and they also stated the main destinations served and also showed the service number: https://flic.kr/p/72wZdu  .Many independents have a stronger recognised brand than most of the big firms do these days, you can see the likes of Weardale's fleet from a mile off (admittedly diluted slightly with much of the service fleet being just dealer stock White with just a logo on the front and maybe the rear).

I think constantly chopping and changing service numbers / liveries doesn't build up a strong profile for a route, about one of the biggest branding success stories is the 36 between Ripon, Harrogate & Leeds operated by Transdev, there's been little done to the route and the livery since they started, think they're on their third? proper livery adoption in 18? Years for the service with only so some small changes but sticking with marketing as a premium offering, then look at something like the Sunderland 61, the liveries have changed multiple times in half that time that Transdev have including having silver base liveried Citaros with no branding for a while and there's even more liveries to add when you include Sunday interworkings causing wrong brand workings such as Silver Arrow and Berries and then they made it service 9 for a while only to then go back to the 61 a short while later.

I agree, destination branding without the route numbers, that is just stupid

A good example is if you travel to York

You see advertisement branding for the Coastline buses Scarborough to Leeds service you see a link of what route they take

Similar to the transdev Zapster advertising a quick link between York and Leeds as oppose to train

Cityzap is an example of a good route going down the pan. Frequency halved and reduced operating hours over the coming couple of weeks.

Arriva X12 Newcastle to Birtley £2.60

Angel £3.10

One has tables, USB, funky tables and pretty colours. The other has seats and wheels.

I’m a passenger….branding is expensive

(01 Apr 2022, 12:29 am)omnicity4659 wrote Cityzap is an example of a good route going down the pan. Frequency halved and reduced operating hours over the coming couple of weeks.

Same / similar fate as GNE's commuter services (X9, X84, X85)

(01 Apr 2022, 9:15 pm)Ambassador wrote Arriva X12 Newcastle to Birtley £2.60

Angel £3.10

One has tables, USB, funky tables and pretty colours. The other has seats and wheels.

I’m a passenger….branding is expensive

They both have seats and wheels though and one of those can't be bothered to operate on Sundays....

(01 Apr 2022, 10:14 pm)DeltaMan wrote They both have seats and wheels though and one of those can't be bothered to operate on Sundays....

Same argument could also be applied to the 308 & 309. One is cheaper but only slightly less frequent. The other however runs slightly more frequent and runs earlier in the morning and later at night than the other particularly between Whitley Bay and Blyth.

(01 Apr 2022, 9:15 pm)Ambassador wrote Arriva X12 Newcastle to Birtley £2.60

Angel £3.10

One has tables, USB, funky tables and pretty colours. The other has seats and wheels.

I’m a passenger….branding is expensive

Can Arriva afford to price match GNE? You're talking a bus every half hour at most and as has already been mentioned, limited operating hours.

The 21 is a reliable service, you know for a fine fact that you go to a bus stop and one will rock up within roughly 10mins. Fair enough, you may get customers rocking up at the stop who "get lucky" and catch an X12 which will save them 50p but in all likelihood, they'll end up catching a 21 back the other way.

I'd argue that you're not paying for the branding with that extra 50p, you're paying for the frequency. I know nothing is guaranteed in the current climate but the 21 has to be the most reliable service going - between Chester and Newcastle - you'll very rarely wait more than 15-20mins for a bus even up midnight and then you have the hourly night bus if you're out for a few sociable ones.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

(01 Apr 2022, 10:32 pm)L469 YVK wrote Same argument could also be applied to the 308 & 309. One is cheaper but only slightly less frequent. The other however runs slightly more frequent and runs earlier in the morning and later at night than the other particularly between Whitley Bay and Blyth.

To be honest, the 308/309 corridor really should have a joint timetable and fares. But that is another issue.

On the wider issue of branding. At most operators, that money is usually in the marketing budget and is tiny compared to labour costs and fuel. So the notion that branding costs extra is for the birds.

I am sure because of deregulation bus companies can't charge the exact same fares as a competitor which is why you have price discrepancies

But then again that business 2 cans of Doctor Pepper In pound land however 90p in other shops...

It's business

That is why we need regulation like what London has and integrated ticketing

Even when GCT operate the service as a Nexus Secured service the price is different to GNE service during the day

(01 Apr 2022, 10:32 pm)L469 YVK wrote Same argument could also be applied to the 308 & 309. One is cheaper but only slightly less frequent. The other however runs slightly more frequent and runs earlier in the morning and later at night than the other particularly between Whitley Bay and Blyth.

The 306/308 is cheaper than the 309/310/311 for frequent travellers...

(02 Apr 2022, 12:03 am)6049 wrote Can Arriva afford to price match GNE? You're talking a bus every half hour at most and as has already been mentioned, limited operating hours.

The 21 is a reliable service, you know for a fine fact that you go to a bus stop and one will rock up within roughly 10mins. Fair enough, you may get customers rocking up at the stop who "get lucky" and catch an X12 which will save them 50p but in all likelihood, they'll end up catching a 21 back the other way.

I'd argue that you're not paying for the branding with that extra 50p, you're paying for the frequency. I know nothing is guaranteed in the current climate but the 21 has to be the most reliable service going - between Chester and Newcastle - you'll very rarely wait more than 15-20mins for a bus even up midnight and then you have the hourly night bus if you're out for a few sociable ones.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Chortle

(02 Apr 2022, 6:21 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote I am sure because of deregulation  bus companies can't charge the exact same fares as a competitor which is why you have price discrepancies

But then again that business 2 cans of Doctor Pepper In pound land however  90p in other shops...

It's business

That is why we need regulation like what London has and integrated ticketing

Even when GCT operate the service as a Nexus Secured service the price is different to GNE service during the day

There is nothing to stop bus companies charging the same fares, so long as they don't discuss it between themselves!

Today, I was driving to Uni (because the bus was 3 mins early so I missed it) and sat behind a Peterlee Purples, and on the back it said "Flit into town and ride like a purple emperor", and I was just left thinking "what the actual hell does that mean?"

I don't mind them branding buses but I wish they'd get shot of these nonsensical slogans that tell you nothing about the service (and while we're here, why is the via points cut off at the bottom on the back of the Solos? Looks a bit odd, especially considering on some routes, the top and bottom line are the same height and the bottom line scrolls)

(04 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)F114TML wrote Today, I was driving to Uni (because the bus was 3 mins early so I missed it) and sat behind a Peterlee Purples, and on the back it said "Flit into town and ride like a purple emperor", and I was just left thinking "what the actual hell does that mean?"

I don't mind them branding buses but I wish they'd get shot of these nonsensical slogans that tell you nothing about the service (and while we're here, why is the via points cut off at the bottom on the back of the Solos? Looks a bit odd, especially considering on some routes, the top and bottom line are the same height and the bottom line scrolls)

A "purple emperor" seems like a euphemism for something else. 

Perhaps whomever coined that little ditty should stop acting like a "purple emperor" and channel their energies into something else completely nonsensical. 

For example, The Purple Emperor could the new brand name for an express service from the former Sven Adult Books on Scotswood Road and Pulse and Cocktails in Blaydon.

(04 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)F114TML wrote Today, I was driving to Uni (because the bus was 3 mins early so I missed it) and sat behind a Peterlee Purples, and on the back it said "Flit into town and ride like a purple emperor", and I was just left thinking "what the actual hell does that mean?" 

I don't mind them branding buses but I wish they'd get shot of these nonsensical slogans that tell you nothing about the service (and while we're here, why is the via points cut off at the bottom on the back of the Solos? Looks a bit odd, especially considering on some routes, the top and bottom line are the same height and the bottom line scrolls)

At the risk of seeing things I didn't want to see (see MurdnunoCs euphemism comments), I Googled it.
Apparently a purple emperor is a butterfly. 
Quite why a rare butterfly would flit in and out of Peterlee is anyone's guess to be honest.

(04 Apr 2022, 11:31 am)Andreos1 wrote At the risk of seeing things I didn't want to see (see MurdnunoCs euphemism comments), I Googled it.
Apparently a purple emperor is a butterfly. 
Quite why a rare butterfly would flit in and out of Peterlee is anyone's guess to be honest.

I've now googled it - they look nice but the images on the back of the bus looked closer to moths or paper aeroplanes than that - possibly because they were very light in colour.

The slogan now makes a bit more sense but I still fail to see how it's promoting the service, or why it's on the back of a bus.

I think the fact that out of three people, none of us knew what a purple emperor was, speaks volumes about the pointlessness of the slogan or the brand that it supposedly promotes.

(04 Apr 2022, 10:47 am)MurdnunoC wrote A "purple emperor" seems like a euphemism for something else.  

Perhaps whomever coined that little ditty should stop acting like a "purple emperor" and channel their energies into something else completely nonsensical. 

For example, The Purple Emperor could the new brand name for an express service from the former Sven Adult Books on Scotswood Road and Pulse and Cocktails in Blaydon.

Just done some more googling and if they don't refer to the 'Luzon Peacock Swallowtail' on the back of a bus any time soon - then I will be extremely disappointed.

Someone might want to tell the queue for the 21 (currently back to Costa at Eldon Square) that’s been forking since 5pm that it’s a reliable turn up and go service.

(04 Apr 2022, 8:58 am)F114TML wrote Today, I was driving to Uni (because the bus was 3 mins early so I missed it) and sat behind a Peterlee Purples, and on the back it said "Flit into town and ride like a purple emperor", and I was just left thinking "what the actual hell does that mean?"

I don't mind them branding buses but I wish they'd get shot of these nonsensical slogans that tell you nothing about the service (and while we're here, why is the via points cut off at the bottom on the back of the Solos? Looks a bit odd, especially considering on some routes, the top and bottom line are the same height and the bottom line scrolls)

By stark contrast, the other day I followed one which said 'Pop into Peterlee for quick connections to Newcastle' and below it info about all-zones day and week tickets, and I felt like giving it a round of applause. IMO would've been a bit better if they'd also included a schematic network map, even if it omitted the X6 and 62 (which IMO don't really fit the brand - probably would be better suited to Sunderland District, particularly given the 55 is an SD route); it certainly looked like there was the space, but credit where it's due.

I mean, it was in Sunderland where you can get to Newcastle on the train in 20-30 minutes, as opposed to over 50 minutes from Peterlee on the X10, but shhh.

Well, this is what I've thought off. Not outright generic but more simple than now. New corporate livery with subvariants for depot operating areas.

Connecting.......................
- North Tyneside & Newcastle (Percy Main)
- South Tyneside & Wearside (Deptford & Washington)
*** 56 - Connecting Tyneside & Wearside
- County Durham (CLS & Consett)
- Newcastle & Gateshead (Riverside)
- The Tyne Valley (Hexham) (Riverside TVT)

Local Links from Go North East
- Predominantly aimed at Minibus services with the exception of the Tyne Valley

XLines
- Fast and frequent links from County Durham to Tyneside & Wearside (ALL current XLines services bar X10)

Tyne Tees Xpress X10
- Fast links from Teesside to East Durham & Tyneside

(16 Apr 2022, 2:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well, this is what I've thought off. Not outright generic but more simple than now. New corporate livery with subvariants for depot operating areas.

Connecting.......................
- North Tyneside & Newcastle (Percy Main)
- South Tyneside & Wearside (Deptford & Washington)
*** 56 - Connecting Tyneside & Wearside
- County Durham (CLS & Consett)
- Newcastle & Gateshead (Riverside)
- The Tyne Valley (Hexham) (Riverside TVT)

Local Links from Go North East
- Predominantly aimed at Minibus services with the exception of the Tyne Valley

XLines
- Fast and frequent links from County Durham to Tyneside & Wearside (ALL current XLines services bar X10)

Tyne Tees Xpress X10
- Fast links from Teesside to East Durham & Tyneside

I think you've just invented Go Ahead Gateshead, Wear Buses, Coastline, Northern and Expresslink. Something i'd wholeheartedly agree with!

(16 Apr 2022, 2:36 pm)DeltaMan wrote I think you've just invented Go Ahead Gateshead, Wear Buses, Coastline, Northern and Expresslink. Something i'd wholeheartedly agree with!

The "connecting................" is basically a re-jigg of the former operating divisions.

Bringing some of the elements back in a more modernised way. Not forgetting that given the world we're in now, the ability to move resources around in an agile manner within minimal cost is a must. So I'd say a generic corporate livery but with "connecting.........." brand for the according depots & areas. Would mean that if there are PVR & service changes, a bus can easily be re-allocated with minimal cost & time whilst retaining some sort of an identity.

(16 Apr 2022, 2:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well, this is what I've thought off. Not outright generic but more simple than now. New corporate livery with taglines & text graphics for depot operating areas.

Connecting.......................
- North Tyneside & Newcastle (Percy Main)

- South Tyneside & Wearside (Deptford*** & Washington)
*** For vehicles on the 56 only - Connecting Tyneside & Wearside

- County Durham (CLS)

- County Durham & Derwentside (Consett)

- Newcastle & Gateshead (Riverside)

- The Tyne Valley (Hexham) (Riverside TVT)


Local Links from Go North East
- Predominantly aimed at Minibus services with the exception of the Tyne Valley


XLines
- Fast and frequent links across the North East

Slight change to the above, Consett I've changed to "County Durham & Derwentside". Tyne Tees Xpress removed and XLines more generic.