(15 Jun 2022, 11:50 am)Ambassador wrote Surprised at a half hourly 28 - seems excessive between CLS and Ouston - would an hourly not suffice on that corridor considering the other options?

No other options from Pelton Fell (south) where lots of new houses have been built.

---

(15 Jun 2022, 2:39 pm)Unber43 wrote If GNE don't run it who will run it and even come close to it making money?

If it’s a contract any operator will make money provided that they put the correct tender price in - JH, Arriva, Stagecoach, Stanley Travel, GCT all potential bidders in my view for the replacement 28 group.
Just hope they don’t award the contract to Rural Link.

(15 Jun 2022, 2:39 pm)Unber43 wrote If GNE don't run it who will run it and even come close to it making money?

The key to all of this, is that what exists as the 25 and 28 now, don't need to continue as the 25 and 28 going forward.

Do the people of Pelton Fell really need or want a bus to Gateshead and Newcastle via the world?
Do the people of Chester need or want a bus to Wrekenton or Harlow Green? 

Of course they don't. But they do need a bus.
So find out where they need to be and build around that. Make money in a creative way, rather than GNE sticking with the time old honour of what they know.

The 25 has existed longer than I have been alive (obviously it has been the X25 and 725 in that period) and I've seen so many changes to shopping, working and leisure in that time for people living along its route. 
Yet still GNE insisted on keeping the same old, assuming moving it away from the QE and Old Durham Road, renumbering and paint job would attract punters.

Ditto the 28, which is the amalgamation of the 709 (Stanley to Newcastle bus) with another that went from Stanley to Chester.
It didn't work back in 2006 when the wholesale changes were made and I'm pretty sure diverting it via the world and more or less every pit village between High Handenhold and Chester, rather than have it go to Stanley hasn't really worked either.

(15 Jun 2022, 2:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote The key to all of this, is that what exists as the 25 and 28 now, don't need to continue as the 25 and 28.

Do the people of Pelton Fell really need or want a bus to Gateshead and Newcastle via the world?
Do the people of Chester need or want a bus to Wrekenton or Harlow Green? 

Of course they don't. But they do need a bus.
So find out where they need to be and build around that. Make money in a creative way, rather than GNE sticking with the time old honour of what they know.

The 25 has existed longer than I have been alive (obviously it has been the X25 and 725 in that period) and I've seen so many changes to shopping, working and leisure in that time for people living along its route. 
Yet still GNE insisted on keeping the same old, assuming moving it away from the QE and Old Durham Road, renumbering and paint job would attract punters.

Ditto the 28, which is the amalgamation of the 709 (Stanley to Newcastle bus) with another that went from Stanley to Chester.
It didn't work back in 2006 when the wholesale changes were made and I'm pretty sure diverting it via the world and more or less every pit village between High Handenhold and Chester, rather than have it go to Stanley hasn't really worked either.

Of course, it seems even the commercial teams in Durham County Council and Nexus would prefer to preserve the current services as is, rather than try something new.

(15 Jun 2022, 2:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote The key to all of this, is that what exists as the 25 and 28 now, don't need to continue as the 25 and 28.

Do the people of Pelton Fell really need or want a bus to Gateshead and Newcastle via the world?
Do the people of Chester need or want a bus to Wrekenton or Harlow Green? 

Of course they don't. But they do need a bus.
So find out where they need to be and build around that. Make money in a creative way, rather than GNE sticking with the time old honour of what they know.

The 25 has existed longer than I have been alive (obviously it has been the X25 and 725 in that period) and I've seen so many changes to shopping, working and leisure in that time for people living along its route. 
Yet still GNE insisted on keeping the same old, assuming moving it away from the QE and Old Durham Road, renumbering and paint job would attract punters.

Ditto the 28, which is the amalgamation of the 709 (Stanley to Newcastle bus) with another that went from Stanley to Chester.
It didn't work back in 2006 when the wholesale changes were made and I'm pretty sure diverting it via the world and more or less every pit village between High Handenhold and Chester, rather than have it go to Stanley hasn't really worked either.

I looked at the 28 route and it goes mostly out of the way of Bemish, who wants to do that. Also I went on the 25 from Sacristan the other week and my god does it go around the world, and im pretty sure all of it except the part after Chester-Le-Street to Wrekton is duplicated by atleast 1 service.

(15 Jun 2022, 2:58 pm)Dan wrote Of course, it seems even the commercial teams in Durham County Council and Nexus would prefer to preserve the current services as is, rather than try something new.

And I would say the same to them, as I do here.

What's that definition of stupidity? Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results... Yet here we are. GNE and now DCC and Nexus doing the same things over and over, but acting surprised when those different results don't actually happen.

(15 Jun 2022, 3:03 pm)Andreos1 wrote And I would say the same to them, as I do here.

What's that definition of stupidity? Doing the same things over and over and expecting different results... Yet here we are. GNE and now DCC and Nexus doing the same things over and over, but acting surprised when those different results don't actually happen.

Your forgetting that DCC and Nexus are responsive to the elected politicians who employ them. Elected politicians normally want to keep what’s already there as it makes things easy for them.

I wonder how much the GNE PVR will actually reduce once everything’s been put back? 
If, as suggested on here, the Q3 is going back to Wallsend then that’s an extra PVR to start with.

Yeah, I doubt the PVR will reduce that much after all the tenders so I'm not sure how they still plan on closing Chester depot.

(15 Jun 2022, 3:01 pm)Unber43 wrote I looked at the 28 route and it goes mostly out of the way of Bemish, who wants to do that. Also I went on the 25 from Sacristan the other week and my god does it go around the world, and im pretty sure all of it except the part after Chester-Le-Street to Wrekton is duplicated by atleast 1 service.

Wrekton, Bemish and Sacristan would all be winner places for me.

(15 Jun 2022, 3:27 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Wrekton, Bemish and Sacristan would all be winner places for me.

Sorry, I can't spell. Nor do i really care to spell these places right

(15 Jun 2022, 3:41 pm)Unber43 wrote Sorry, I can't spell. Nor do i really care to spell these places right

That's OK, Uber34.

(15 Jun 2022, 3:13 pm)Jack Gill wrote Yeah, I doubt the PVR will reduce that much after all the tenders so I'm not sure how they still plan on closing Chester depot.

Big assumption GNE will win all these especially with the DCC tenders. Arriva, Weardale and Stanley and the dreadful Rurallink or whatever name this week are easily in the right place for them.

(15 Jun 2022, 3:10 pm)busmanT wrote Your forgetting that DCC and Nexus are responsive to the elected politicians who employ them. Elected politicians normally want to keep what’s already there as it makes things easy for them. 

I wonder how much the GNE PVR will actually reduce once everything’s been put back? 
If, as suggested on here, the Q3 is going back to Wallsend then that’s an extra PVR to start with.

It makes me wonder who else finds that keeping things as is, makes things easy for themselves

(15 Jun 2022, 2:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote The key to all of this, is that what exists as the 25 and 28 now, don't need to continue as the 25 and 28 going forward.

Do the people of Pelton Fell really need or want a bus to Gateshead and Newcastle via the world?
Do the people of Chester need or want a bus to Wrekenton or Harlow Green? 

Of course they don't. But they do need a bus.
So find out where they need to be and build around that. Make money in a creative way, rather than GNE sticking with the time old honour of what they know.

The 25 has existed longer than I have been alive (obviously it has been the X25 and 725 in that period) and I've seen so many changes to shopping, working and leisure in that time for people living along its route. 
Yet still GNE insisted on keeping the same old, assuming moving it away from the QE and Old Durham Road, renumbering and paint job would attract punters.

Ditto the 28, which is the amalgamation of the 709 (Stanley to Newcastle bus) with another that went from Stanley to Chester.
It didn't work back in 2006 when the wholesale changes were made and I'm pretty sure diverting it via the world and more or less every pit village between High Handenhold and Chester, rather than have it go to Stanley hasn't really worked either.

This is genuinely not instead to be a flippant or abrupt response so please don’t view it in that way. 

Where do you think these people would prefer buses to? 

You’d hope that if the tenders are only for 1 year, prior to the tenders next year they would conducted a consultation to find out as they would have more time to prepare.

(15 Jun 2022, 5:11 pm)Thomas12 wrote This is genuinely not instead to be a flippant or abrupt response so please don’t view it in that way. 

Where do you think these people would prefer buses to? 

You’d hope that if the tenders are only for 1 year, prior to the tenders next year they would conducted a consultation to find out as they would have more time to prepare.

I'd hope they would do a consultation. To be honest, I'd have hoped the incumbent would have done one to find out where punters (past and present) want to go too.

If I was in Pelton Fell and I was wanting to go to Newcastle, I'd not use the 28 all the way.
I'd either driver or, head in to Chester and get a quicker bus from there. Ditto on the way back. Assuming the connections worked anyway.
Not ideal. 
If I was working at somewhere like TVTE, then it's mission impossible or the car. 

If I was in Grange Villa and wanting to go to Durham, I'd want a direct bus there (like there used to be), but seeing as there isn't again, I'd look to transfer at Chester and hope connections worked. Wouldn't fancy going in the wrong direction to Stanley to change.
Again, looking at potential workplaces close by - Drum, the Eveready site or Consett - a bus isn't going to be an option.

You could substitute those places for the likes of Ouston/Perkinsville, Vigo, Barley Mow or Portmeads. 

To get to work or anywhere half decent (and I use the word loosely) nearby, is 2 or 3 buses and a wait, 2 or 3 buses, a wait and a walk or the car.

I'd argue the majority of the buses being put up for cancellation in those areas exist only because of old school highstreets, villages and the pits.
The high streets are dying a death, the people living in the villages buy cars because the buses are pish and the pits went donkeys years ago.
Yet the routes still exist and go between the same places they have done since that network map at Beamish was designed.

These places need a reliable bus that takes them to the places they need and want to be. Wherever that is, it's clearly not the places currently on offer.

Here's an Idea, DCC have a PSV operator's licence and a big depot at Annfield Plain. Why do they not just run the services such as the 28 themselves?

Buy those deckers from JH Travel that are for sale and employ GNE staff that are getting shafted.

Ready made operation with local knowledge. Just a thought. If it takes off change the livery every few months and stick some tables in the buses.

Oh, as an aside I wonder if Martijn will be doing any driving shifts from CLS depot before he leaves ?

Charles

(15 Jun 2022, 7:15 pm)Charles41 wrote Here's an Idea, DCC have a PSV operator's licence and a big depot at Annfield Plain. Why do they not just run the services such as the 28 themselves?

Buy those deckers from JH Travel that are for sale and employ GNE staff that are getting shafted.

Ready made operation with local knowledge. Just a thought. If it takes off change the livery every few months and stick some tables in the buses.

Oh, as an aside I wonder if Martijn will be doing any driving shifts from CLS depot before he leaves ?

Charles

It's illegal for councils to start their own bus companies and run bus services as part of the Bus Services Bill in 2017 as stupid as it is.

With all these changes. I'm still confused about the 1. I wish it would be left alone. The amount of times the Gateshead side of the route has been changed is amazing.

Cut From Wrekenton, 25 introduced along the route, 25 now withdrawn in this area, put back the 1 to where it used to go. Are StreetLite even gonna manage the 1 now. Seeing quite a few journeys becoming full now. Even seen a few 25 busy today between the section it's being cut from

(15 Jun 2022, 7:54 pm)Aaron21 wrote With all these changes. I'm still confused about the 1. I wish it would be left alone. The amount of times the Gateshead side of the route has been changed is amazing.

Cut From Wrekenton, 25 introduced along the route, 25 now withdrawn in this area, put back the 1 to where it used to go. Are StreetLite even gonna manage the 1 now. Seeing quite a few journeys becoming full now. Even seen a few 25 busy today between the section it's being cut from

And also if 25 is saved from langley to Wreckton, whats the point of it not continuing to newcastle.

You might aswell just extend the 1 to Langley Park. (I would hate to drive that)

(15 Jun 2022, 7:57 pm)Unber43 wrote And also if 25 is saved from langley to Wreckton, whats the point of it not continuing to newcastle.

You might aswell just extend the 1 to Langley Park. (I would hate to drive that)

The 1 should go to Team Valley Sainsbury or Wrekenton via the team Valley

(15 Jun 2022, 8:15 pm)Aaron21 wrote The 1 should go to Team Valley Sainsbury or Wrekenton via the team Valley

No one would use that tho.

(15 Jun 2022, 5:11 pm)Thomas12 wrote This is genuinely not instead to be a flippant or abrupt response so please don’t view it in that way. 

Where do you think these people would prefer buses to? 

You’d hope that if the tenders are only for 1 year, prior to the tenders next year they would conducted a consultation to find out as they would have more time to prepare.

Personally I wish they'd attempt to do the old GNE X32 route but serving all stops additionally serving all villages between Beamish and Pelton and additionally going through Kibblesworth instead of the actual 29.

It would open a new link between Stanley and Gateshead and also Newcastle and Team Valley. It's absolutely ridiculous there's no bus service between the two during the day with the second 28 also running to Stanley instead of CLS as it's just duplicating other areas and would open links from Birtley, Wrekenton and the QE to Stanley.

For the other part of the 28. I'd extend the 71 to Quaking Houses via this route as it's too hard to explain - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chester-...97!1m0!3e0

Then withdrawn the 30 and 31 in the process, short services like that are useless and it gives new links from Stanley and Beamish to Houghton and Seaham (if anyone actually needs it but it's there).

(15 Jun 2022, 8:26 pm)Storx wrote Personally I wish they'd attempt to do the old GNE X32 route but serving all stops additionally serving all villages between Beamish and Pelton and additionally going through Kibblesworth instead of the actual 29.

It would open a new link between Stanley and Gateshead and also Newcastle and Team Valley. It's absolutely ridiculous there's no bus service between the two during the day with the second 28 also running to Stanley instead of CLS as it's just duplicating other areas and would open links from Birtley, Wrekenton and the QE to Stanley.

For the other part of the 28. I'd extend the 71 to Quaking Houses via this route as it's too hard to explain - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chester-...97!1m0!3e0

Then withdrawn the 30 and 31 in the process, short services like that are useless and it gives new links from Stanley and Beamish to Houghton and Seaham (if anyone actually needs it but it's there).

I'm presuming the 703D isnt enough on its own. Ill post a pdf in the suggestions thread regarding an idea.

(15 Jun 2022, 8:26 pm)Storx wrote Personally I wish they'd attempt to do the old GNE X32 route but serving all stops additionally serving all villages between Beamish and Pelton and additionally going through Kibblesworth instead of the actual 29.

It would open a new link between Stanley and Gateshead and also Newcastle and Team Valley. It's absolutely ridiculous there's no bus service between the two during the day with the second 28 also running to Stanley instead of CLS as it's just duplicating other areas and would open links from Birtley, Wrekenton and the QE to Stanley.

For the other part of the 28. I'd extend the 71 to Quaking Houses via this route as it's too hard to explain - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chester-...97!1m0!3e0

Then withdrawn the 30 and 31 in the process, short services like that are useless and it gives new links from Stanley and Beamish to Houghton and Seaham (if anyone actually needs it but it's there).

[quote pid="278193" dateline="1655324800"]
What about running a clockwise/anti-clockwise loop from Chester-Le-Street via Pelton, Grange Villa, West Pelton, Beamish, Stanley, Quaking Houses, Burnhope, Lanchester, Hamsteels, Langley Park, Witton Gilbert, Sacriston and Waldridge back to Chester-Le-Street.

Service 6 would be withdrawn between Stanley and Lanchester along with 30/31 being withdrawn as suggested, Links maintained between Chester and Langley Park on the 25 side of the route with route extended through to Stanley following current service 6.

I think the Anti-Clockwise Loop for me would running off of the 8 with the Clockwise Loop run going off of the 28's so all areas served have links to both Newcastle, Gateshead, Washington and Sunderland without the need of changing buses.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chester-...b5!1m0!3e0
[/quote]

(13 Jun 2022, 3:20 pm)F114TML wrote I think the through services will do:
Terrace - Cornwall - Webb Avenue - Station Estate

Because the other option would mean you could stand on one side of the road and get a 61 to Sunderland that goes around all the estates, or stand on the other side of the road and get a 61 to Sunderland that's 10-15 minutes quicker because it doesn't go through the estates. Also, aside from the care home, people very rarely get on or off between the terrace and the cenotaph. They can live on an hourly service maybe probably ish.

Sorry picking this up a day late… 

You’re probably right about the route around Murton of the through services, but DCC will have to get out to improve bus stops on the other side of road, I don’t think Burnip Road or Webb Avenue even have bus stop flagpoles on the opposite side, as nothing has went the other way round Truro Avenue, since the old 65 was withdrawn in 2013. And I don’t think that version 65 went along Burnip Road as it went via Toft Crescent to serve Barnes Road, I believe.

(15 Jun 2022, 8:20 pm)Unber43 wrote No one would use that tho.

Not even the people on the route who needed to get their shopping in?

(15 Jun 2022, 9:56 pm)Malarkey wrote [quote pid="278193" dateline="1655324800"]
What about running a clockwise/anti-clockwise loop from Chester-Le-Street via Pelton, Grange Villa, West Pelton, Beamish, Stanley, Quaking Houses, Burnhope, Lanchester, Hamsteels, Langley Park, Witton Gilbert, Sacriston and Waldridge back to Chester-Le-Street.

Service 6 would be withdrawn between Stanley and Lanchester along with 30/31 being withdrawn as suggested, Links maintained between Chester and Langley Park on the 25 side of the route with route extended through to Stanley following current service 6.

I think the Anti-Clockwise Loop for me would running off of the 8 with the Clockwise Loop run going off of the 28's so all areas served have links to both Newcastle, Gateshead, Washington and Sunderland without the need of changing buses.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Chester-...b5!1m0!3e0

[/quote]

Are you looking at a PVR of about 400 here, gonna be well into the next day before later journeys reach Newcastle or Sunderland 

(15 Jun 2022, 10:44 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Not even the people on the route who needed to get their shopping in?

There’s a free Sainsburys bus from Wrekenton serving most of the estates in the area that I imagine most people would use. It must be worth it since they’ve been running it since Safeway opened as the original tenant of the now Sainsburys Team Valley.

(15 Jun 2022, 11:14 pm)Ambassador wrote There’s a free Sainsburys bus from Wrekenton serving most of the estates in the area that I imagine most people would use. It must be worth it since they’ve been running it since Safeway opened as the original tenant of the now Sainsburys Team Valley.

Was it not a condition of sainburys getting that store that they provided a free bus?

(16 Jun 2022, 7:30 am)Rob44 wrote Was it not a condition of sainburys getting that store that they provided a free bus?

I don't think the free bus existed when it was a Safeway, prior to becoming a Sainsburys.

(16 Jun 2022, 9:33 am)Adrian wrote I don't think the free bus existed when it was a Safeway, prior to becoming a Sainsburys.

no i dont think it did but maybe sainsburys had to agree to serve customers without the use of private transport to be allowed to buy it of them/take it over?