Is it just me who has this issue way too often than i should? Got into dalton park this evening on the X10 hoping to catch the 65, see it pulled into the stop to watch it pull away two minutes early… now I’m stranded for an hour in the cold. Everytime i bring this up with them on twitter I’m told I’m wrong and it left on time? :|

If you can prove it ran early (cough: https://bustimes.org/vehicles/39872?date.../312300868) then complain to the Bus Users - https://bususers.org/passengers/complain...s-process/

There's no excuse for running early if they're fobbing you off. Just remember that you might get someone punished in the process though as I believe early running isn't taken lightly.

A 65 running early?! Not often we hear that on here!

Do they still say 1 minute early or 5 minutes late is classed as ‘on time’? They certainly used too. You’re right though - especially key calling points shouldn’t be leaving until it’s scheduled time, not even 1 minute early really. Driver clearly wanting to get home sharp!

(21 Sep 2022, 8:06 pm)ALavery wrote Is it just me who has this issue way too often than i should? Got into dalton park this evening on the X10 hoping to catch the 65, see it pulled into the stop to watch it pull away two minutes early… now I’m stranded for an hour in the cold. Everytime i bring this up with them on twitter I’m told I’m wrong and it left on time? :|

Dalton Park timings with the X10 really need sorting out. 

19:20 one meets perfectly with the 65 to Seaham & 61A to Sunderland however if youre going to Murton or Hetton you'll have a 30-40 min wait

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(21 Sep 2022, 8:27 pm)Drifter60 wrote A 65 running early?! Not often we hear that on here!

Do they still say 1 minute early or 5 minutes late is classed as ‘on time’? They certainly used too. You’re right though - especially key calling points shouldn’t be leaving until it’s scheduled time, not even 1 minute early really. Driver clearly wanting to get home sharp!

I wouldn't be surprised if 15 mins late is classed as on time. If not the reliability of the 20/20A/21/X1/60 are on the low end.

However I must say when getting on the 65 (well not so now), 20, X10, X20, X1, 50 etc they all used to leave 1 min early, but since COVID I've noticed they leave when they're actually supposed too. e.g
Meant to be leave at 20:20 they would tend to leave 20:19.

(21 Sep 2022, 8:27 pm)Drifter60 wrote A 65 running early?! Not often we hear that on here!

Do they still say 1 minute early or 5 minutes late is classed as ‘on time’? They certainly used too. You’re right though - especially key calling points shouldn’t be leaving until it’s scheduled time, not even 1 minute early really. Driver clearly wanting to get home sharp!

Exactly, it’s a massive hazard especially considering its late at night and the last bus. Personally i know if i was running the last bus i would probably wait at those key points an extra minute or two to make sure people got home. I don’t understand why another bus coming in doesn’t make someone think that perhaps someone getting off that bus needs to get on theirs? Also I’m not sure, it probably is. I had an X10 leaving eldon square a minute early and I hate complaining over a minute I sound like a proper karen but if it had waited the extra minute i would’ve made it? It’s a joke atp

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(21 Sep 2022, 8:24 pm)MK Storx wrote If you can prove it ran early (cough: https://bustimes.org/vehicles/39872?date.../312300868) then complain to the Bus Users - https://bususers.org/passengers/complain...s-process/

There's no excuse for running early if they're fobbing you off. Just remember that you might get someone punished in the process though as I believe early running isn't taken lightly.

Thank you very much! I wasn’t aware that was a thing haha.

Sure London Transport have this process on the running board or somewhere in the country - they are not to depart until (connecting bus has arrived) and have to wait for a minute at the stop for connecting bus and if that bus is say 3 or 5 minutes late to radio control for next steps

We need this process especially for connections like ferry or metro at metro stations wait 90sec of it departing to create a connection service

(21 Sep 2022, 10:01 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Sure London Transport  have  this process on the running board or somewhere in the country - they are not to depart  until (connecting bus has arrived)  and have to wait for a minute at the stop for connecting bus  and if that bus is say 3 or 5 minutes late to radio control  for next steps

We need this process especially for connections like ferry or metro at metro stations wait 90sec of it departing to create a connection service

There was something like this for the 56's during the night connecting onto the 4, however I am not sure if drivers stick to it.

Not so much London Transport, but it's often the norm in rural areas.

Also the same in Switzerland on routes that are less frequent where they usually wait for a late incoming connection. However timetables in Switzerland are usually worked out on in a different manner (not actually timed point to point), which is some places the buses will sit for a few minutes until the departure time.

(21 Sep 2022, 10:01 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Sure London Transport  have  this process on the running board or somewhere in the country - they are not to depart  until (connecting bus has arrived)  and have to wait for a minute at the stop for connecting bus  and if that bus is say 3 or 5 minutes late to radio control  for next steps

We need this process especially for connections like ferry or metro at metro stations wait 90sec of it departing to create a connection service

Had that experience a few times in different parts of the country. The most notable was some of the Solo stuff Stagecoach Oxford had and connections in the Bampton area.

(21 Sep 2022, 8:06 pm)ALavery wrote Is it just me who has this issue way too often than i should? Got into dalton park this evening on the X10 hoping to catch the 65, see it pulled into the stop to watch it pull away two minutes early… now I’m stranded for an hour in the cold. Everytime i bring this up with them on twitter I’m told I’m wrong and it left on time? :|

I hope you weren't relying on the electronic signs at Dalton Park, they do not match the actual registered times for the buses that serve it. They are wrong.

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(21 Sep 2022, 10:02 pm)Unber43 wrote There was something like this for the 56's during the night connecting onto the 4, however I am not sure if drivers stick to it.

Nah, we just did that ourselves to help a regular passenger, there was no advertised connection.

(21 Sep 2022, 10:56 pm)deanmachine wrote I hope you weren't relying on the electronic signs at Dalton Park, they do not match the actual registered times for the buses that serve it. They are wrong.

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Nope, it pulled away when I was still on the X10 pulling in. Due at 21:01 but left at 20:59. I looked to those for the next bus thinking i had a 40 minute wait but it was only 30 minutes thank god.

Leaving timing points early is gross misconduct. The first thing your taught as a driver is there are a million reasons for being late but none for being early. With soany trackers on the bus these days and even a count down timer on the ticket machine, there really is no excuse.

One of the lasses i used to work with used to get the x1 at 7am to work. yet alot of the time she would be at the stand for 655 and it was just disapearing into the distance. she complained to GNE and the next time she went for it... you guessed it... it was just pulling out and the driver wouldnt let her on... she drives to work now.

another occasion me and the crocodile had been for a few pints and waited where the odeon used to be foe the number 1 to low fell. think he was sue out at say 615. the croc went to the paper shop just up from the bus stop to put her lotto on and the bus came early, around 5 minutes early . i got on and said the Mrs is coming. He said im leaving now. I looked at the clock the buses had at the front and said if your leaving now your 5 minutes early. she then jumped on behind me. we sat down and the driver still left a good 3 minutes sharp and picked up next to no passenger to low fell as he was trailing a 21 the whole route.

(23 Sep 2022, 4:37 pm)Rob44 wrote One of the lasses i used to work with used to get the x1 at 7am to work. yet alot of the time she would be at the stand for 655 and it was just disapearing into the distance. she complained to GNE and the next time she went for it... you guessed it... it was just pulling out and the driver wouldnt let her on... she drives to work now.

another occasion me and the crocodile had been for a few pints and waited where the odeon used to be foe the number 1 to low fell. think he was sue out at say 615. the croc went to the paper shop just up from the bus stop to put her lotto on and the bus came early, around 5 minutes early . i got on and said the Mrs is coming. He said im leaving now. I looked at the clock the buses had at the front and said if your leaving now your 5 minutes early. she then jumped on behind me. we sat down and the driver still left a good 3 minutes sharp and picked up next to no passenger to low fell as he was trailing a 21 the whole route.

The thing is, when you report it leaving early, all you get is the old "we'll pass it on to the depot", and nothing happens

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Was planning a trip to Filtrona Park and was working out where the Metro replacement stop was in comparison to the metro station (low bridge and all that).

Noticed buses leaving there early too. 

Not sure if it was the correct allocation, but that's for another thread.

(23 Sep 2022, 6:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote Was planning a trip to Filtrona Park and was working out where the Metro replacement stop was in comparison to the metro station (low bridge and all that).

Noticed buses leaving there early too. 

Not sure if it was the correct allocation, but that's for another thread.

Bus stop at Bede is just opposite the Barbour factory on Bedesway  2 minutes from low bridge .

(23 Sep 2022, 6:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote Was planning a trip to Filtrona Park and was working out where the Metro replacement stop was in comparison to the metro station (low bridge and all that).

Noticed buses leaving there early too. 

Not sure if it was the correct allocation, but that's for another thread.

900s are being ran almost fully by agency staff or staff from other operators so prehaps that was ran by a driver who didn't know GNEs policy on early running, although still no excuse for early running.

Do buses including any newer ones still have the late Peter Huntley atomic clocks fitted?

According to an article from 2006......running early was one of his biggest bug bears which he cracked down on.

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"

Drivers running their buses early is another bugbear for both passengers and bus companies ( but Huntley believes he can stamp it out.

"One of the things I've given instructions on to date, is compulsory stops ( it's the traditional, old London approach.

"It can be that, if a driver can finish his route a few minutes early, that's good for him because he can get a fag break, but it's no good for passengers.

"I'm imposing on all drivers intermediate, compulsory stopping points, where they must do a time check.

"I have got an order in for atomic clocks, which will be installed on the bulkhead of each bus, so there's no argument about the time ( and we will operate a system of 'three strikes and you're out' for our drivers, if they leave these points before time."

"

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https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Peter+pla...0147738630

(24 Sep 2022, 1:07 pm)L469 YVK wrote Do buses including any newer ones still have the late Peter Huntley atomic clocks fitted?

According to an article from 2006......running early was one of his biggest bug bears which he cracked down on.

---

"

Drivers running their buses early is another bugbear for both passengers and bus companies ( but Huntley believes he can stamp it out.

"One of the things I've given instructions on to date, is compulsory stops ( it's the traditional, old London approach.

"It can be that, if a driver can finish his route a few minutes early, that's good for him because he can get a fag break, but it's no good for passengers.

"I'm imposing on all drivers intermediate, compulsory stopping points, where they must do a time check.

"I have got an order in for atomic clocks, which will be installed on the bulkhead of each bus, so there's no argument about the time ( and we will operate a system of 'three strikes and you're out' for our drivers, if they leave these points before time."

"

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https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Peter+pla...0147738630

I've brought this up before in the past, they seemed to have been stripped out the vehicles that had them fitted, and haven't been on new vehicles for years now.

The closest we've got is the time on the LCD NSA displays, and even that I'd been suggesting to have there for years!

(24 Sep 2022, 1:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I've brought this up before in the past, they seemed to have been stripped out the vehicles that had them fitted, and haven't been on new vehicles for years now.

The closest we've got is the time on the LCD NSA displays, and even that I'd been suggesting to have there for years!

A lot of the smaller ones got removed when the drivecam system was introduced as they were sited mostly where the drivecam was to be mounted.

on the original subject - at stations doors close 30 seconds before and pulling away 15 seconds later.  The amount of times I’ve been sitting for 5 mins for a last minute rush for people that are not even ready to board that’s made me eventually 5 mins late leaving the bus behind then is late and the cycle continues, then there’s the ‘why you late driver’ questions all the  way along the route (which again adds even more time).

(24 Sep 2022, 1:07 pm)L469 YVK wrote Do buses including any newer ones still have the late Peter Huntley atomic clocks fitted?

According to an article from 2006......running early was one of his biggest bug bears which he cracked down on.

They don't need them. The ticket machines should work off NTP.

(24 Sep 2022, 5:19 pm)Adrian wrote They don't need them. The ticket machines should work off NTP.

Wasn't the point of them that passengers could also see the time as well?

(24 Sep 2022, 5:51 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Wasn't the point of them that passengers could also see the time as well?

If so, they're still largely redundant because of the NSA screens - TFT ones have a clock in the corner all the times, LED ones show the time when it passes a stop - only on a few routes are stops so far apart that causes problems.

(24 Sep 2022, 5:51 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Wasn't the point of them that passengers could also see the time as well?

Maybe so, but how many people nowadays don't have the means of seeing what time it is? Most have a smartphone, and those who don't are most likely to be wearing a watch.

(24 Sep 2022, 3:20 pm)xpm wrote A lot of the smaller ones got removed when the drivecam system was introduced as they were sited mostly where the drivecam was to be mounted.

on the original subject - at stations doors close 30 seconds before and pulling away 15 seconds later.  The amount of times I’ve been sitting for 5 mins for a last minute rush for people that are not even ready to board that’s made me eventually 5 mins late leaving the bus behind then is late and the cycle continues, then there’s the ‘why you late driver’ questions all the  way along the route (which again adds even more time).

Thinking about it and it would be a cross operator approacg, could the following system not be put in place at major interchanges and stops?

- All tickets to be purchased on app (with all operator unique & multi modal tickets made available)

OR

- Ticket machines with QR code which is scanned on boarding


So currently......a fully loaded decker out of ES or Haymarket can easily take 15 minutes to load and process passengers. All passengers pre-paid when boarding could load a full decker in 5 minutes and in many instances, around 3 minutes. Would save all the costs associated with delays and.....would even encourage app usage to avoid queues at ticket machines.

(24 Sep 2022, 7:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote Thinking about it and it would be a cross operator approacg, could the following system not be put in place at major interchanges and stops?

- All tickets to be purchased on app (with all operator unique & multi modal tickets made available)

OR

- Ticket machines with QR code which is scanned on boarding


So currently......a fully loaded decker out of ES or Haymarket can easily take 15 minutes to load and process passengers. All passengers pre-paid when boarding could load a full decker in 5 minutes and in many instances, around 3 minutes. Would save all the costs associated with delays and.....would even encourage app usage to avoid queues at ticket machines.

It's possible: https://www.ticketer.com/en/press-articl...ticketing/

But very much like tap on/tap off, which would save customers money, there seems to be a lack of willingness to quickly move to the technology.

(24 Sep 2022, 7:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote Thinking about it and it would be a cross operator approacg, could the following system not be put in place at major interchanges and stops?

- All tickets to be purchased on app (with all operator unique & multi modal tickets made available)

OR

- Ticket machines with QR code which is scanned on boarding


So currently......a fully loaded decker out of ES or Haymarket can easily take 15 minutes to load and process passengers. All passengers pre-paid when boarding could load a full decker in 5 minutes and in many instances, around 3 minutes. Would save all the costs associated with delays and.....would even encourage app usage to avoid queues at ticket machines.

Tap on / (tap off) - not needed the second part if fixed fares are brought in is the answer. Similar to Oyster which has been around for decades and most other cities around the world.

The UK (as per usual) is decades behind everywhere else. Ticket machines and QR codes just aren't needed at all.

(24 Sep 2022, 7:40 pm)Adrian wrote It's possible: https://www.ticketer.com/en/press-articl...ticketing/

But very much like tap on/tap off, which would save customers money, there seems to be a lack of willingness to quickly move to the technology.

Its on the Q3/53/54 but I wonder how many people are actually taking it up. Really its only good if you only use 1 service, multiple times a day.

(24 Sep 2022, 8:11 pm)Unber43 wrote Its on the Q3/53/54 but I wonder how many people are actually taking it up. Really its only good if you only use 1 service, multiple times a day.

I don't think it'll be very many, whilst the scope is so narrow.

However in Brighton, where it's available on every bus, there's a case study on their website that states they recorded 1 million transactions in 4 months: https://www.ticketer.com/en/case-study/m...-4-months/

I wish I gave it a try when I was in Brighton back in May.

(24 Sep 2022, 5:19 pm)Adrian wrote They don't need them. The ticket machines should work off NTP.

The ticket machines run about 5 seconds slower than any phone/watch I've ever used. Whilst weird, I assume this is deliberate though.