Service changes:
* X30/X31 standalone
* 16B/47/X5/X45 all interwork on Sundays
* Sunday 78 extended to Castleside
* X72 thrown into Sunday interworking pattern alongside 6/12/X30
* Long layover re-introduced for X21
* X1 remains at every 15 minutes (30 to Peterlee)

Fleet changes:
StreetDeck
- 6331-33 - Washington - Spares
- 6356-60 - Consett - X45 & X71/X72
- 6361-63 - Consett - X45 & X71/X72
- 6364-74 - Washington - X1
- 6375 - Washington - Spare
- 6376-77 - Consett - X45 & X71/X72

B5TL
- 6308-14 - Riverside - 58
- 6334-35 - Consett - Spares

E400MMC
- 6336-37 - Consett - Spares
- 6338-40 - Consett - X30/X31
- 6341-55 - Riverside - X10 & X21 (includes 2x spares)

Repaints & partial re-brands:
- 6308 - 14 - Full repaint to corporate
- 6332 - Full repaint to corporate
- 6356-63 - Text changed to more generic Consett / Stanley to Newcastle
- 6308-14 - Full repaint to corporate
- 6341-51 - Partial repaint to generic XLines charcoal
- 6352-55 - Text changed to generic XLines removing any specific X10 branding

Misc scheduled allocations:
- Sunday 16B/47/X5/X45 - 9x StreetDeck or E400MMC
- Sunday 10/10A/10B - 7x E400MMC (still leaves 2x spare with the other 6x on X10 & X21)

Why repaint the buses there is literally no need.

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Also the PVR of X45/X71/X72 is 11, there are only 8. Surely the B5TL would be a better suit on the 47, with the Red Kite Rangers possibly going onto the 58, with the 58's going into a reserve role for possibly the 57.

(03 Dec 2022, 3:19 pm)Unber43 wrote Why repaint the buses there is literally no need.

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Also the PVR of X45/X71/X72 is 11, there are only 8. Surely the B5TL would be a better suit on the 47, with the Red Kite Rangers possibly going onto the 58, with the 58's going into a reserve role for possibly the 57.

PVR of X45 standalone would be 5x and PVR of X71/X72 is 5x so that would be 10x in total although I did make an error not including 6377.

Only ones that would need a full repaint would be 6308-14 and 6332.

6341-51 getting a partial repaint (needed anyways if moved to Riverside) would allow flexibility alongside 6352-55 and would evenly distribute any 'hammerings' on the X10.

As for the 58, the longer length of the B5TL would be off benefit with Amazon. Although the 47 would be another option if the 58 didn't justify an upgrade.

What's the capacity difference between the B5s, Streetdecks and E400s?

The last couple of times I've used the X10, it's been very busy and struggled to keep to time. I'd reintroduce the X9 and go back to their original routes.

(03 Dec 2022, 4:38 pm)streetdeckfan wrote What's the capacity difference between the B5s, Streetdecks and E400s?

B5TL Gemini 3 - 11.5m - 77 seats (more without tables so would be perfect for 58 depending on flow from Amazon)

E400MMC 10.9m - 73 seats with tables - ironically Arriva's 10.3m MMCs seat 73 with no tables

StreetDeck 10.5m - 68 seats with tables

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(03 Dec 2022, 6:43 pm)tvd wrote The last couple of times I've used the X10, it's been very busy and struggled to keep to time.  I'd reintroduce the X9 and go back to their original routes.

Depends what the flows are like. Yes commuter times and on Saturdays / Sundays.

But what are the loads like off peak Monday - Friday? Also bearing in mind there's rail strikes which have been happening.

(03 Dec 2022, 7:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote B5TL Gemini 3 - 11.5m - 77 seats (more without tables so would be perfect for 58 depending on flow from Amazon)

E400MMC 10.9m - 73 seats with tables - ironically Arriva's 10.3m MMCs seat 73 with no tables

StreetDeck 10.5m - 68 seats with tables

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Depends what the flows are like. Yes commuter times and on Saturdays / Sundays.

But what are the loads like off peak Monday - Friday? Also bearing in mind there's rail strikes which have been happening.

But the thing is with the 58 I don't see it a whole lot, but ive seen it at various times and its never really busy, even X58.

(03 Dec 2022, 7:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote B5TL Gemini 3 - 11.5m - 77 seats (more without tables so would be perfect for 58 depending on flow from Amazon)

E400MMC 10.9m - 73 seats with tables - ironically Arriva's 10.3m MMCs seat 73 with no tables

StreetDeck 10.5m - 68 seats with tables

How are loads on the 58 compared to the X21? I feel sometimes even the B5s don't have enough capacity on the X21.

Also, is the only difference between the B5s and StreetDecks in the length?
Yesterday when I kept jumping between them I felt there was a difference in headroom between them upstairs, but I might have just been imagining it!

(03 Dec 2022, 9:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote How are loads on the 58 compared to the X21? I feel sometimes even the B5s don't have enough capacity on the X21.

Also, is the only difference between the B5s and StreetDecks in the length?
Yesterday when I kept jumping between them I felt there was a difference in headroom between them upstairs, but I might have just been imagining it!

I'd imagine if Amazon grows, the extra length of the B5TLs and upseated with tables removed would be beneficial even with a 15 minute frequency.

Not sure regarding the height though.

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(03 Dec 2022, 9:38 pm)Unber43 wrote But the thing is with the 58 I don't see it a whole lot, but ive seen it at various times and its never really busy, even X58.

There are 7x B5TLs with the 'StreetDeck' style Gemini 3 bodywork. That matches the exact PVR of the 58 not forgetting potential growth with Amazon.

(03 Dec 2022, 9:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote How are loads on the 58 compared to the X21? I feel sometimes even the B5s don't have enough capacity on the X21.

Also, is the only difference between the B5s and StreetDecks in the length?
Yesterday when I kept jumping between them I felt there was a difference in headroom between them upstairs, but I might have just been imagining it!

When I've been on the X21 it just seems like you said its too busy, I wonder if GNE would ever consider making the X21 every 20 mins if they were to order new buses for the route

(03 Dec 2022, 11:05 pm)L469 YVK wrote I'd imagine if Amazon grows, the extra length of the B5TLs and upseated with tables removed would be beneficial even with a 15 minute frequency.

Not sure regarding the height though.

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There are 7x B5TLs with the 'StreetDeck' style Gemini 3 bodywork. That matches the exact PVR of the 58 not forgetting potential growth with Amazon.

You'd only gain 2, maybe 4 seats removing the tables though wouldn't you? 

The staircase side I doubt you'd be able to squeeze a spare set in, but I reckon you could probably easily fit another row on the other side.

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(03 Dec 2022, 11:10 pm)Unber43 wrote When I've been on the X21 it just seems like you said its too busy, I wonder if GNE would ever consider making the X21 every 20 mins if they were to order new buses for the route

The issue with the X21 is it has very uneven loadings.
Sometimes you'd struggle to fill a single decker, others you're maxing out a double decker.

If they were to do anything, I reckon the best option would be to bring back the Newcastle-Durham runs as that's the part of the route that carries the most passengers.
Durham-Bishop really only carries a full load during the school runs, other than that they're pretty empty.

(03 Dec 2022, 9:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote How are loads on the 58 compared to the X21? I feel sometimes even the B5s don't have enough capacity on the X21.

Also, is the only difference between the B5s and StreetDecks in the length?
Yesterday when I kept jumping between them I felt there was a difference in headroom between them upstairs, but I might have just been imagining it!

I think you could push an Every 20 Minutes Frequency on the X21 between Newcastle and Durham.

I've used the Peak Time Consett Runs using an XLINES E400MMC this week that depart Eldon Square at 17:45 and I have to say I thought they were better than the B5TL's.

(03 Dec 2022, 11:30 pm)Malarkey wrote I think you could push an Every 20 Minutes Frequency on the X21 between Newcastle and Durham.

I've used the Peak Time Consett Runs using an XLINES E400MMC this week that depart Eldon Square at 17:45 and I have to say I thought they were better than the B5TL's.

What would that mean for the Durham-Bishop section though, presumably it would have to be reduced to hourly? That wouldn't be such an issue if there was ticket acceptance with the Arriva 6

I would have jumped on the Consett X21 yesterday to try it out, but it was a B9 instead!

(03 Dec 2022, 11:13 pm)streetdeckfan wrote You'd only gain 2, maybe 4 seats removing the tables though wouldn't you? 

The staircase side I doubt you'd be able to squeeze a spare set in, but I reckon you could probably easily fit another row on the other side.

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The issue with the X21 is it has very uneven loadings.
Sometimes you'd struggle to fill a single decker, others you're maxing out a double decker.

If they were to do anything, I reckon the best option would be to bring back the Newcastle-Durham runs as that's the part of the route that carries the most passengers.
Durham-Bishop really only carries a full load during the school runs, other than that they're pretty empty.

I also don't get why you would remove the tables! 

I suppose you could possibly introduce the X22/X21A hourly Newcastle-Gateshead-Team Valley-A1-Durham, i'm sure you can time it out at every 20 mins leaving Durham, or every 12 mins with 21 aswell.

(03 Dec 2022, 11:30 pm)Malarkey wrote I've used the Peak Time Consett Runs using an XLINES E400MMC this week that depart Eldon Square at 17:45 and I have to say I thought they were better than the B5TL's.

I wouldn't say the B5TLs are great although they're not the worst.

But Riverside having a wider bank of MMCs would save 6352-55 being the only ones getting a daily 'hammering'.

Plus on Sundays & Bank Holidays, there'd still be enough with 2x spares leftover to also cover the Tyne Valley Ten Sunday PVR (7x) which would reduce fuel costs over the B9TLs.

I’m pretty sure that removing tables has no impact on seats, it’s essentially just turning the back facing ones round, then that’s all the change that needs to happen. I think E400s and B5s need to be on more heavy duty, direct and fast routes as they aren’t particularly limited in speed unlike the streetdecks, which should be kept to more urbanised stopping XLines routes, like the X1 or X45 for example.

(04 Dec 2022, 2:30 am)ALavery wrote I’m pretty sure that removing tables has no impact on seats, it’s essentially just turning the back facing ones round, then that’s all the change that needs to happen. I think E400s and B5s need to be on more heavy duty, direct and fast routes as they aren’t particularly limited in speed unlike the streetdecks, which should be kept to more urbanised stopping XLines routes, like the X1 or X45 for example.

Most xlines routes are only an express as they're faster than the a different version of a service, bar X21/X10 they all pretty much stop at every stop that they pass, X1 skips about 10 stops thats it. 

It would be nice to get some truly express routes.

Much easier to get shot of the failed X-Lines and just allocate a double decker and/or single decker of any type to any route.

The buses are no better than the standard buses anyway, some worse.

It's by far the biggest failure of anything in the North East which is summed up by frequency reductions and removal of services altogether which existed long before X-Lines ever came around (X46 in particular) and were a pure copy of Arriva Sapphire / Stagecoach Gold which ironically were being scrapped at the time.

The brands beforehand were much stronger; Red Kite, Red Arrows and Tyne Tees Express in particular.

(04 Dec 2022, 10:50 am)Storx wrote Much easier to get shot of the failed X-Lines and just allocate a double decker and/or single decker of any type to any route.

The buses are no better than the standard buses anyway, some worse.

It's by far the biggest failure of anything in the North East which is summed up by frequency reductions and removal of services altogether which existed long before X-Lines ever came around (X46 in particular) and were a pure copy of Arriva Sapphire / Stagecoach Gold which ironically were being scrapped at the time.

The brands beforehand were much stronger; Red Kite, Red Arrows and Tyne Tees Express in particular.

Woah, Woah they have cream headrests thats the difference

Don't get rid of it keep it for X21/X10/X1. 

but honestly i can't see it going anywhere for any service.

(04 Dec 2022, 10:57 am)Unber43 wrote Woah, Woah they have cream headrests thats the difference

Don't get rid of it keep it for X21/X10/X1. 

but honestly i can't see it going anywhere for any service.

Only certain buses do, the B5's are identical to the Angel buses.

Wouldn't even keep it for them tbh, it doesn't do anything. It's just meaningless.

X21 - Angel Express / Angel X
X10 - Tyne Tees Express / Tyne Tees X
X1 - Red Arrows Express / Red Arrows X
X30/X31 - 'X' Express / 'X' X

21 - Angel
6 - 'X'

47 -> 7 (Red Kite)
X45 -> 8 (Red Kite)
71/72 - Another Brand (there's nothing express about these).

8 -> 77 (It doesn't serve the low number)

'X' being a brand, I can't be bothered to think of one.

If we're going to keep brands that would make more sense imo and use the 'Express' or 'X' branding instead of X-Lines as support of their slower brand. Rather than having two separate brands with no link at all or just make everything corporate instead (which I'd do now tbh).

(04 Dec 2022, 11:08 am)Storx wrote Only certain buses do, the B5's are identical to the Angel buses.

Wouldn't even keep it for them tbh, it doesn't do anything. It's just meaningless.

X21 - Angel Express / Angel X
X10 - Tyne Tees Express / Tyne Tees X
X1 - Red Arrows Express / Red Arrows X
X30/X31 - 'X' Express / 'X' X

21 - Angel
6 - 'X'

47 -> 7 (Red Kite)
X45 -> 8 (Red Kite)
71/72 - Another Brand (there's nothing express about these).

8 -> 77 (It doesn't serve the low number)

'X' being a brand, I can't be bothered to think of one.

If we're going to keep brands that would make more sense imo and use the 'Express' or 'X' branding instead of X-Lines as support of their slower brand. Rather than having two separate brands with no link at all or just make everything corporate instead (which I'd do now tbh).

Or.......maybe the following

ExpressLink
- X10 & X21

Go North East - Interurban - Corporate blue all over with roadstripe, not route specific but highlights key interurban routes
- 10/10A/10B
- 8/78
- 16/16A/16B
- 20
- 21
- 45 (renumbered from 47) and X45
- 50
- 56
- 309/310/311
- X1
- X5/X15
- X30/X31
- X71/X72

Go North East - Corporate
- All other services

Maybe just brand Xlines routes which are actual expresses.

And as for branding if a route makes money brand it, if it doesn't corporate.

(04 Dec 2022, 2:06 pm)Unber43 wrote Maybe just brand Xlines routes which are actual expresses.

And as for branding if a route makes money brand it, if it doesn't corporate.

The only two that fall as actual express and not just fast interurban services are the X10 & X21.

As for the rest plus a few other non 'X' services, a simple concept to what Arriva's MAX was would be more appropriate. Would simply things massively plus having an 'interurban' branded bus off route wouldn't be the biggest deal. Only striking difference vice versa would be the lack of red / blue.

(04 Dec 2022, 2:06 pm)Unber43 wrote Maybe just brand Xlines routes which are actual expresses.

And as for branding if a route makes money brand it, if it doesn't corporate.

Xlines doesn’t mean it’s an express service, more of comfort etc.. and quicker between 2 points than there own normal service between 2 points along the route and not from terminus to terminus, the x10 and x21 should of not been put under the xlines brand and should of kept there own recognisable identity , the x10 probably been put in that xlines due to it was faster than there normal service bus between Peterlee and dalton park and Heworth and Newcastle

If a route that doesn’t make money then there will just withdraw the service and let the tax payer to foot the bill, don’t forget GNE are a business to make money , GNE are not there to make a loss due to enthusiasts want this and that.


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(04 Dec 2022, 2:47 pm)cbma06 wrote Xlines doesn’t mean it’s an express service, more of comfort etc.. and quicker between 2 points than there own normal service between 2 points along the route and not from terminus to terminus, the x10 and x21 should of not been put under the xlines brand and should of kept there own recognisable identity , the x10 probably been put in that xlines due to it was faster than there normal service bus between Peterlee and dalton park and Heworth and Newcastle

If a route that doesn’t make money then there will just withdraw the service and let the tax payer to foot the bill, don’t forget GNE are a business to make money , GNE are not there to make a loss due to enthusiasts want this and that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#BringBackTheCastlesExpress!

Air cooled tables…

https://twitter.com/davefromupnorth/status/1599523986941317120?s=46&t=dJM0mtlLpJFt5GFBMqYo7g

I think 6099 and 6100 could do with being in XLines black as cover vehicles as 6099 is always on the X10 anyway

(24 Dec 2022, 8:39 pm)Mr Alx300 22062 NK54 BFF wrote I think 6099 and 6100 could do with being in XLines black as cover vehicles as 6099 is always on the X10 anyway

I doubt any repaints will happen unless absolutely necessary given GNE's current situation.

Wouldn't even be surprised if any current XLines vehicles get moved that they just get generic graphics / text and keeping their existing rear colours.

Maybe when GNE is a steady ship again.........a new brand something down the lines of 'InterLink' that covers the current 'X' routes and other key non express trunk routes.

(24 Dec 2022, 8:39 pm)Mr Alx300 22062 NK54 BFF wrote I think 6099 and 6100 could do with being in XLines black as cover vehicles as 6099 is always on the X10 anyway

6100 acts as a spare Cobalt now at Percy Main. Dk why 6099 isn't either since it's a Cobalt spec bus and was Percy Main when it came back from refurb

(24 Dec 2022, 11:32 pm)Aaron21 wrote 6100 acts as a spare Cobalt now at Percy Main. Dk why 6099 isn't either since it's a Cobalt spec bus and was Percy Main when it came back from refurb

Initially.......

- March 2019 - 309 & 310 increased from PVR of 16x to 17x meaning no spare bus.

- May 2019 - 56 PVR reduced to 13x. 6100 the  released to Percy Main.

- Late 2019 - 6099 also released to Percy Main.

- Jan 2020 - 309 & 310 (incl new 311) PVR reduced from 17x to 16x meaning that effectively, 6100 and 6101 were enough as spares.

I can imagine if the strongly rumoured new Coast Road 'partnership' takes effect between GNE & Arriva with all the 306/308/309/310 going down to every 20 mins each, GNE's PVR shouldn't be more than 14x. That would release a further 2x B9TLs.