How many miles can it do before it needs recharging?

(06 Jan 2023, 7:42 pm)Michael wrote How many miles can it do before it needs recharging?

Approx 160


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(06 Jan 2023, 7:55 pm)Dan wrote Approx 160


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That's decent.

9049 on service 97 this evening - https://www.flickr.com/photos/adammalark...ateposted/

(06 Jan 2023, 5:46 pm)busmanT wrote 97

Just 97?

(06 Jan 2023, 4:18 pm)Adrian wrote Didn't it spend more time off the road than it did in service?

For me, it's not a patch on the Yutong performance-wise, and I don't think there's anything in it compared to the way GNE have specified their interior fit.

I do recall it breaking down once on Coatsworth Road but other than that it was in Service whenever I seen it.

Everyone will have there own opinions on which they prefer and as I have always been a fan of the Diesel Citaros and my mind hasn't changed even though the eCitaro doesn't have the roar of the engine that is accustomed to a Citaro, I personally felt the ride was more comfortable and the interior was more welcoming and airing compared to that of the Yutongs I feel are very compact/claustrophobic as your also sitting at a higher level due to the raised flooring otherwise it's a very well built bus I can't knock with the Yutong's performance-wise either.

(06 Jan 2023, 4:49 pm)Ambassador wrote It would be nice to see a BYD model trialled. They are the best selling model in Europe so there must be a decent run on them (or plenty of subsidies) 

Think they work with ADL and Go Ahead have the E Enviro400s

I mean it's obviously subjective, but having tried the BYD E400 in Dundee and the BYD E200 in Kilmarnock, I'd still say the Yutong examples up here are the better bus.

Of course, their sales figurss speak volumes, so I agree it'd be good to see further trials in the North East. They did have the E200 demo on the 53/54 a couple years ago, but I'm sure things have moved on since then.

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(06 Jan 2023, 9:23 pm)Adrian wrote I mean it's obviously subjective, but having tried the BYD E400 in Dundee and the BYD E200 in Kilmarnock, I'd still say the Yutong examples up here are the better bus.

Of course, their sales figurss speak volumes, so I agree it'd be good to see further trials in the North East. They did have the E200 demo on the 53/54 a couple years ago, but I'm sure things have moved on since then.

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When Arriva North West's BYD E200's entered service, the ride was absolutely appalling, rattles and felt like it was being slammed into each pot hole it went over, they actually ended up being sent to have work done on them more recently to try and counteract the issues and mercifully the ride has been improved since. The demo GNE trialled seemed much better (LJ68CYO: https://flic.kr/p/24wSp7B)

Can't pass many comments on the Yutong's as it's a while since I last had a ride on one anywhere.

(06 Jan 2023, 9:23 pm)Adrian wrote I mean it's obviously subjective, but having tried the BYD E400 in Dundee and the BYD E200 in Kilmarnock, I'd still say the Yutong examples up here are the better bus.

Of course, their sales figurss speak volumes, so I agree it'd be good to see further trials in the North East. They did have the E200 demo on the 53/54 a couple years ago, but I'm sure things have moved on since then.

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No doubt we'll see the new Alexander Dennis Enviro 100/400 EV's trialled once demonstrations begin, I would also like to see what the MCV Volvo BZL range is like.

(06 Jan 2023, 9:55 pm)Jimmi wrote When Arriva North West's BYD E200's entered service, the ride was absolutely appalling, rattles and felt like it was being slammed into each pot hole it went over, they actually ended up being sent to have work done on them more recently to try and counteract the issues and mercifully the ride has been improved since. The demo GNE trialled seemed much better (LJ68CYO: https://flic.kr/p/24wSp7B)

Can't pass many comments on the Yutong's as it's a while since I last had a ride on one anywhere.

Can certainly attest to that, I use them travelling to/from work sometimes and they sound like they're gonna drop to bits, particularly around the cab.

Looks like it's still got the same god awful Citaro seats, are they as bad as the ones on GNE's?

(08 Jan 2023, 7:03 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Looks like it's still got the same god awful Citaro seats, are they as bad as the ones on GNE's?

More comfortable as they’re in moquette rather than leather!


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Has anyone been brought to trial for introducing leather to GNE?

Why is it being trialled on the 97? Like they just got new buses like 4 years ago.

(09 Jan 2023, 9:50 pm)nova347 wrote Why is it being trialled on the 97? Like they just got new buses like 4 years ago.

Popular routes that make money (not sure if the 97 is included) are most likely to be able to make back the investment of new vehicles.

I don't get why its just being trialed at Riverside and not Deptford or Washington on the 4/60 possibly the 20, as CLS managed to do the electroliner on the 21 granted that was on for like 4/5 hours per day and was still off for a bit.

Today the eCitaro was replaced at Gateshead managing around 11 hours. also I dont really get why it can only do 160km when I am pretty sure the ones in Germany can manage 200km which I still don't think will be enough however GNE should have fast charging electric facilities at bus station where they can park for 15 mins pretty sure you get like 80% charge in what could be less time than that.

(09 Jan 2023, 9:56 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Popular routes that make money (not sure if the 97 is included) are most likely to be able to make back the investment of new vehicles.

That makes sense, but if the 97 can get new buses in like 4 years but the 60 which gets packed, and I know the 97 gets busy but the 60 which hasn't had new vehicles in 10 years can't get a repaint or get their seat re-done. 

Like even just a trial in Sunderland would be nice, whether that's a Euro 6 bus or an electric bus which is not very likely, I know Deptford doesn't have any charger facilities but neither did Chester they still trialled an electric decker although if Depford ever gets an electric bus it's more likely to be trialled on the 56.

But it would be nice for them to trial a GB Hawk (Euro 6) or GB Kite whether that's the Hydrogen or the Electric one also trial or the Volvo 7900.

(09 Jan 2023, 10:17 pm)nova347 wrote That makes sense, but if the 97 can get new buses in like 4 years but the 60 which gets packed, and I know the 97 gets busy but the 60 which hasn't had new vehicles in 10 years can't get a repaint or get their seat re-done. 

Like even just a trial in Sunderland would be nice, whether that's a Euro 6 bus or an electric bus which is not very likely, I know Deptford doesn't have any charger facilities but neither did Chester they still trialled an electric decker although if Depford ever gets an electric bus it's more likely to be trialled on the 56.

But it would be nice for them to trial a GB Hawk (Euro 6) or GB Kite whether that's the Hydrogen or the Electric one also trial or the Volvo 7900.

But the only feasible way for some of the 'lesser' routes to get upgrades is through cascades from the more profitable routes (once again, not sure where the routes you mention fit into the scale).

The thing is though, you say a trial in Sunderland would be nice, but honestly why would they bother? It's essentially just a waste of money/effort if the vehicle is never going to be ordered for the area. The time would be better spent evaluating the vehicle where it's more likely to end up.

If the 97 does get upgraded, those 'nearly new' E200s will then end up on a route that just couldn't feasibly be run if new vehicles were ordered for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe single deckers are expected to last 10 years, so those E200s on the 97 are already a third through their life and have likely already been depreciated down to the point where they could be moved onto another less profitable route.

(09 Jan 2023, 11:09 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But the only feasible way for some of the 'lesser' routes to get upgrades is through cascades from the more profitable routes (once again, not sure where the routes you mention fit into the scale).

The thing is though, you say a trial in Sunderland would be nice, but honestly why would they bother? It's essentially just a waste of money/effort if the vehicle is never going to be ordered for the area. The time would be better spent evaluating the vehicle where it's more likely to end up.

If the 97 does get upgraded, those 'nearly new' E200s will then end up on a route that just couldn't feasibly be run if new vehicles were ordered for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe single deckers are expected to last 10 years, so those E200s on the 97 are already a third through their life and have likely already been depreciated down to the point where they could be moved onto another less profitable route.

I thought it was 15. 

But the last upgrade to the 97 was replacing 15 year old Scania's, when I've seen it its can be busy but it can also be dead or just maybe about 10-12 people on, quite often the latter actually. 

If the max life of a single decker is 10 years I would be worrying about GNE situation tbh.

(09 Jan 2023, 11:12 pm)Unber43 wrote I thought it was 15. 

But the last upgrade to the 97 was replacing 15 year old Scania's, when I've seen it its can be busy but it can also be dead or just maybe about 10-12 people on, quite often the latter actually. 

If the max life of a single decker is 10 years I would be worrying about GNE situation tbh.

I thought it was something like 7 for mini buses, 10 for single deckers, and 15 for double deckers? Could be wrong though

Obviously they'll last much longer than that, but they use standard figures like that to calculate the depreciation and other financial stuffs

(09 Jan 2023, 11:18 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I thought it was something like 7 for mini buses, 10 for single deckers, and 15 for double deckers? Could be wrong though

Obviously they'll last much longer than that, but they use standard figures like that to calculate the depreciation and other financial stuffs

If its 7 for minibuses then basically all of GNE solos bar 3 will need replacements, 10 for single 40 buses would need to be replaced with another 20 or smth soon. 

Deckers they're pretty much all under 15 years old.

Perhaps the reason it's being used on the 97 is because it's quite a challenging route for an electric vehicle with numerous steep hill climbs and the potential to regenerate energy when it goes back down a hill. It's hill starting ability on Lobley Hill this morning was certainly impressive, better than any fuel powered vehicle, but then again electric motors will have more torque than a combustion engine and the lack of gears.

(09 Jan 2023, 11:44 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Perhaps the reason it's being used on the 97 is because it's quite a challenging route for an electric vehicle with numerous steep hill climbs and the potential to regenerate energy when it goes back down a hill. It's hill starting ability on Lobley Hill this morning was certainly impressive, better than any fuel powered vehicle, but then again electric motors will have more torque than a combustion engine and the lack of gears.

Not a bad idea, it seems like a decent bus. However for it does just have 39 seats, which is practically the same as the Common Optare Versas which GNE use, with 1.2m shorter (presumably its 12m). 

I think it would be ideal on possibly the 4, 28/29, 12, also the 35 (as it used to have citaros)

(09 Jan 2023, 11:44 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Perhaps the reason it's being used on the 97 is because it's quite a challenging route for an electric vehicle with numerous steep hill climbs and the potential to regenerate energy when it goes back down a hill. It's hill starting ability on Lobley Hill this morning was certainly impressive, better than any fuel powered vehicle, but then again electric motors will have more torque than a combustion engine and the lack of gears.

Assuming they have decent enough regen, it would be just about equivalent to driving the same distance on level ground. So, for a hilly route an EV would be perfect.

(09 Jan 2023, 11:50 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Assuming they have decent enough regen, it would be just about equivalent to driving the same distance on level ground. So, for a hilly route an EV would be perfect.

There needs to be some sort of infrastructure in place such as fast chargings at stops e.g 

Newcastle/Gateshead/Metrocentre/Durham/Chester-Le-Street/Heworth/Washington Galleries/Sunderland/South Sheilds/Stanley/Consett however It seems GNE are going for the ability to plug in and charge but thats fine and great when its at the depot but routes such as X21/10's. As Im pretty sure you have the ability to charge 0-80% in like 7/8 mins in Germany and other european countries and layovers are regularly 5-10 mins charging even for 3 mins at Durham or smth would massively help but Im pretty sure you can only do that with overhead chargers and it doesn't seem like GNE is heading that way. 

Aswell you need to deal with them potentially being damaged however in the major bus stations wont/shouldn't be an issue however its locations such as possibly  Greenside/Brandon/Langley Park/Low Moorlsey where routes end after quite a long distance and then when they break it costs money.

(09 Jan 2023, 11:56 pm)Unber43 wrote There needs to be some sort of infrastructure in place such as fast chargings at stops e.g 

Newcastle/Gateshead/Metrocentre/Durham/Chester-Le-Street/Heworth/Washington Galleries/Sunderland/South Sheilds/Stanley/Consett however It seems GNE are going for the ability to plug in and charge but thats fine and great when its at the depot but routes such as X21/10's. As Im pretty sure you have the ability to charge 0-80% in like 7/8 mins in Germany and other european countries and layovers are regularly 5-10 mins charging even for 3 mins at Durham or smth would massively help but Im pretty sure you can only do that with overhead chargers and it doesn't seem like GNE is heading that way. 

Aswell you need to deal with them potentially being damaged however in the major bus stations wont/shouldn't be an issue however its locations such as possibly  Greenside/Brandon/Langley Park/Low Moorlsey where routes end after quite a long distance and then when they break it costs money.

Where would they get the power from though? It's not as simple as just whacking a charger in at a stop.

If they charge over the CCS connector, and pull the maximum amount of power (which you would want to for the fastest speeds), then it would be the equivalent of having 15 houses maxing out their connections (CCS maximum charge rate is 350kW, a typical house with a 100A connection can pull around 24kW before blowing the fuse).

As for the fast charging you suggest, I'm guessing to achieve a 0-80% charge time of 8 minutes they have very small batteries and they just charge them more often.

A 0-80% charge in 8 minutes with either the Yutong or eCitaro would require a charge rate of around 3.6MW, to put that into perspective, Kielder Water can generate around 6MW.

(10 Jan 2023, 12:17 am)streetdeckfan wrote Where would they get the power from though? It's not as simple as just whacking a charger in at a stop.

If they charge over the CCS connector, and pull the maximum amount of power (which you would want to for the fastest speeds), then it would be the equivalent of having 15 houses maxing out their connections (CCS maximum charge rate is 350kW, a typical house with a 100A connection can pull around 24kW before blowing the fuse).

As for the fast charging you suggest, I'm guessing to achieve a 0-80% charge time of 8 minutes they have very small batteries and they just charge them more often.

A 0-80% charge in 8 minutes with either the Yutong or eCitaro would require a charge rate of around 3.6MW, to put that into perspective, Kielder Water can generate around 6MW.

Pretty sure Germany manages it pretty sure that is with eCitaros which have a range of 200KM. 

In the UK we dont have the infrastructure for electric cars and the GOV aren't in a hurry to sort that out, So I cant imagine their will be any grants for this type of stuff, unless its in London.

(10 Jan 2023, 12:26 am)Unber43 wrote Pretty sure Germany manages it pretty sure that is with eCitaros which have a range of 200KM. 

In the UK we dont have the infrastructure for electric cars and the GOV aren't in a hurry to sort that out, So I cant imagine their will be any grants for this type of stuff, unless its in London.

While I'm happy to be proven wrong, I highly doubt a bus with a 200km range could be charged in that time. In fact, I'd go as far as saying with current technology, it's nigh on physically impossible.

A lot of roadside charging facilities for buses only top up the battery rather than fully recharge it. At least that how it works at Harrogate, the buses come in to the bus station, goes on the required stand and sits for 5 mins or so taken on juice from the charger.