(27 May 2023, 8:39 am)Unber43 wrote The bus is £2, the train is £7.10 each way

I've done both the 22/23 both are awful journeys, but I would defo take them if I could save £10.

Aye that was part of the rail is terrible aswell; frequency, pricing and vehicles are all bad pretty much. It should be much busier if they actually put some effort in it. It's not like it serves nowhere unlike the Far North lines in Scotland. It serves sizeable towns and cities along the whole route pretty much.

(26 May 2023, 5:21 pm)Dan wrote With the notification period now required, Go North East would not have been aware of any changes to the Arriva services at the time of providing pre-notification to local authorities of their changes from the same date.


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Highly unlikely Durham CC would want their 8 week enhanced partnership notification, or even their regulatory four weeks pre notification to be adhered to, in order to improve a service.

The only important notice period is the six weeks you need to provide the Traffic Commissioner.

Given Arriva changes were in public domain around two weeks ago, plenty of time to respond.

(28 May 2023, 8:23 am)RobinHood wrote Highly unlikely Durham CC would want their 8 week enhanced partnership notification, or even their regulatory four weeks pre notification to be adhered to, in order to improve a service.

The only important notice period is the six weeks you need to provide the Traffic Commissioner.

Given Arriva changes were in public domain around two weeks ago, plenty of time to respond.

I'm not sure that the Arriva changes were in the public domain two weeks ago - some people may have had sight of the proposals as they stood reading on here though.
How do we know that GNE didn't give 10 weeks pre notification to both Nexus and Durham CC?
As the Sunderland Connect moves to its summer timetable from 9th July, might GNE not simply have been planning an uplift to the X6 from this date anyway?

(27 May 2023, 8:39 am)Unber43 wrote The bus is £2, the train is £7.10 each way

I've done both the 22/23 both are awful journeys, but I would defo take them if I could save £10.

Return fare between Hartlepool and Sunderland is £7.20.

(28 May 2023, 2:01 pm)Economic505 wrote Return fare between Hartlepool and Sunderland is £7.20.

It's a pound cheaper on Grand Central at £6.20 return

(28 May 2023, 2:08 pm)tcts24 wrote It's a pound cheaper on Grand Central at £6.20 return

And only takes 25 mins , where as the bus takes half a lifetime !

(28 May 2023, 2:01 pm)Economic505 wrote Return fare between Hartlepool and Sunderland is £7.20.

Is that return where you can only return on a certain journey tho?

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(28 May 2023, 2:08 pm)tcts24 wrote It's a pound cheaper on Grand Central at £6.20 return

But Grand Central only run 4-5 services a day and over 1/3 of them get cancelled (as of a couple months ago) they were second behind TPE

(28 May 2023, 4:27 pm)Unber43 wrote Is that return where you can only return on a certain journey tho?

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But Grand Central only run 4-5 services a day and over 1/3 of them get cancelled (as of a couple months ago) they were second behind TPE

The return fare is still between £6 and £7.20 regardless of time of day. However, I m not going sit on the 23 unless there’s a train strike.

(28 May 2023, 1:38 pm)busmanT wrote I'm not sure that the Arriva changes were in the public domain two weeks ago - some people may have had sight of the proposals as they stood reading on here though.
How do we know that GNE didn't give 10 weeks pre notification to both Nexus and Durham CC?
As the Sunderland Connect moves to its summer timetable from 9th July, might GNE not simply have been planning an uplift to the X6 from this date anyway?

700 Summer Timetable is online, no PDF yet... starts 8th July 2023

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/services/G...2023-07-11&direction=outbound

As previously.. 701/702 took out of the sequence for the Summer.

Just been looking on the GNE website, and under the x6 timetable in the pdf for the new timetable it has the new 700 timetable for July instead of the new X6 timetable.


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(26 May 2023, 3:47 pm)Jimmi wrote Peterlee to Hartlepool is clearly the better half of the route given its due to retain 4 buses an hour on this section on the 23/24.

That said, I saw a 23 heading along Ryhope Road, Sunderland towards Hartlepool around 1130 on Saturday morning and it was carrying a decent loading.

Form my experiences at least some trips can be busy, others aren't and not everyone's going to/from Sunderland between Peterlee and Sunderland you will get short hops plus people heading towards Dalton Park.

I think this is where currently it depends on who the operator is, not necessarily how lucrative the corridor is. Arriva has always been dominant for Hartlepool travel in East Durham - Peterlee, Horden & Blackhall have had 4ph for years + had quicker service to Sunderland & Durham for the villages, such as Horden & Blackhall. The lack of cross operator tickets in County Durham means you’re often stuck with one operator if you need weekly, monthly or even day tickets. 

Therefore it’s a no brainier to get an Arriva ticket if you lived in Blackhall rather than opt for GNE - even if there was a slightly cheaper option - as you’d benefit for more buses to let’s say work in Hartlepool but then you can also get to Sunderland, Durham or Dalton Park on the weekend if you needed the shops etc. That’s also forgetting to mention that the vast majority of GNE services in East Durham have no evening or Sunday service, and haven’t done for years. So Arriva had options for you to work late or socialise later into the evening. Ryhope to Sunderland is the reverse, GNE have more extensive services, later and enhanced timetables and probably better ticketing options.

When are changes for July going to be announced - Are the new timetables online anywhere yet? And is it just the X6/208?

(08 Jun 2023, 2:30 pm)Drifter60 wrote When are changes for July going to be announced - Are the new timetables online anywhere yet? And is it just the X6/208?

The x6 timetable from Sunderland will be 01 and 31 from the interchange during daytime and from Peterlee will be 17 and 47 during daytime with the existing times for early morning and evening journeys, only place I’ve seen the timetable is on the traveline journey planner


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23rd July 2023:

PB0003954/686
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 58 (58, X58) Follingsby Amazon Newcastle


PB0003954/122
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 51, 52 (51, 52) Gateshead Gateshead

PB0003954/86
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED 93,94 (93, 94) Gateshead Gateshead

PB0003954/690
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED Q3 (Q3) Wallsend Great Park

PB0003954/1272
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X21 (X21) West Auckland Newcastle

Pls let the X21 be a PVR increase

(10 Jun 2023, 4:17 pm)Unber43 wrote Pls let the X21 be a PVR increase

Looks like it's time for me to once again get my hopes up that they'll be bringing back the late journeys so I can get home on a night, and to then inevitably be disappointed when it doesn't happen!

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(10 Jun 2023, 6:43 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Looks like it's time for me to once again get my hopes up that they'll be bringing back the late journeys so I can get home on a night, and to then inevitably be disappointed when it doesn't happen!

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Honestly, I am kinda optimistic as GNE have been re-expanding their services more, this could be a logical step.

(10 Jun 2023, 6:48 pm)Unber43 wrote Honestly, I am kinda optimistic as GNE have been re-expanding their services more, this could be a logical step.

Lol, I'll stick to my pessimism

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(10 Jun 2023, 7:02 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Lol, I'll stick to my pessimism

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Probably for the best! 

I wonder if an additional sunday service could be added, which would be attached onto the X21, 

X21 the normal route hourly 
then X21 to Durham then the 21 to Newcastle

It won’t happen, but I’d ditch the Low Fell stop. It’ll offer more flexibility and a true express service especially once the A1 is complete.

(10 Jun 2023, 10:46 pm)Ambassador wrote It won’t happen, but I’d ditch the Low Fell stop. It’ll offer more flexibility and a true express service especially once the A1 is complete.

I got the last X21 down the other night, and the fact it was packed by Gateshead and emptied out at Low Fell really p'd me off.

I was travelling to Bishop, so that was my last bus home, and I could barely get a seat for all the people going a few stops down the road.

I know I'm not entitled to a seat, but there should at least be some consideration for those who are using the bus to it's destination, especially when it's the only one!

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Might be an extension to Cockfield?

(11 Jun 2023, 1:35 am)streetdeckfan wrote I got the last X21 down the other night, and the fact it was packed by Gateshead and emptied out at Low Fell really p'd me off.

I was travelling to Bishop, so that was my last bus home, and I could barely get a seat for all the people going a few stops down the road.

I know I'm not entitled to a seat, but there should at least be some consideration for those who are using the bus to it's destination, especially when it's the only one!

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this happens on loads of services, granted the x21 seems to evaporate on an evening but its exactly the same on the 44. People for hazlerigg and dinington couldnt get on at regent centre due to bus being full but it was half empty by the time it got to polworth drive.

(11 Jun 2023, 1:35 am)streetdeckfan wrote I got the last X21 down the other night, and the fact it was packed by Gateshead and emptied out at Low Fell really p'd me off.

I was travelling to Bishop, so that was my last bus home, and I could barely get a seat for all the people going a few stops down the road.

I know I'm not entitled to a seat, but there should at least be some consideration for those who are using the bus to it's destination, especially when it's the only one!

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Would it not be better for GNE to go something like.......

- 21 - Every 5 minutes Newcastle - The Angel then every 15 minutes to CLS

- X21 - Every 20 minutes Newcastle to West Auckland, non-stop Gateshead to CLS.

Storx has mentioned some really good ideas in the past regarding this corridor.

(11 Jun 2023, 9:02 am)L469 YVK wrote Would it not be better for GNE to go something like.......

- 21 - Every 5 minutes Newcastle - The Angel then every 15 minutes to CLS

- X21 - Every 20 minutes Newcastle to West Auckland, non-stop Gateshead to CLS.

Storx has mentioned some really good ideas in the past regarding this corridor.

When the Angel P&R comes the Angel shorts would be useful. Sure there’ll be some funding to throw in. Without the P&R you wouldn’t need the 5 min frequency however. 

Takes pressure off what can be packed CLS, Birtley and Durham services 

Though I remain unconvinced the Angel P&R will be a success or used at all

(11 Jun 2023, 12:26 pm)Ambassador wrote When the Angel P&R comes the Angel shorts would be useful. Sure there’ll be some funding to throw in. Without the P&R you wouldn’t need the 5 min frequency however. 

Takes pressure off what can be packed CLS, Birtley and Durham services 

Though I remain unconvinced the Angel P&R will be a success or used at all

The Angel P&R will fail 100%. It's in the complete wrong place. No-one is going to park there and then sit on a bus which does the exact same route you'd drive in, including the same traffic. The time it takes the bus to get from Newcastle to Gateshead you could be well on your way to the A1 by that point. 

See Great Park P&R at the other city of the city, or even Northumberland Park and Four Lane Ends which are all empty most the time.

P&R's only work when there's limited parking or severe traffic like York or Edinburgh.

(11 Jun 2023, 1:44 pm)Storx wrote The Angel P&R will fail 100%. It's in the complete wrong place. No-one is going to park there and then sit on a bus which does the exact same route you'd drive in, including the same traffic. The time it takes the bus to get from Newcastle to Gateshead you could be well on your way to the A1 by that point. 

See Great Park P&R at the other city of the city, or even Northumberland Park and Four Lane Ends which are all empty most the time.

Its going to be super quick from what I hear as its going to be bus lanes from the angel to Gateshead Metro.

(11 Jun 2023, 1:47 pm)Rob44 wrote Its going to be super quick from what I hear as its going to be bus lanes from the angel to Gateshead Metro.

But even then though, it takes what is 10 mins from Eldon Square to Gateshead, you could be nearly at Team Valley by that time and once the A1 is complete it's going to be a dual carriageway all the way, or at least to the Redheugh Bridge anyway.

The better place imo would be is where the funfair is at Team Valley, then you could run non-stop buses through and additionally serve Team Valley so it has dual purpose and additional passenger flows skipping Gateshead - as no-one wants to go there.

For the other side Follingsby Park is better, not to mention it'll have a future rail connection but also for the same reason that you could have express buses which run non-stop and serve the business park aswell - maybe as an extension of the 4 and the Felling Bypass is a right slog at rush hour so would be more popular.

It's how the York P&R works, using the York Designer Village, Monks Cross and Askham Bar College instead.

No-one wants to go the Angel, so it'll happen what happens everywhere else, no-one is using it, we'll get arid of the express buses the 21 is good enough. Whoah hang on I'm not sitting on a bus that stops everywhere and takes 30 minutes. P&R closes. It's basically what happened at the Great Park with the X40 which now goes on a detour around Jesmond. That used to take 18 minutes, now it's 34 minutes!

(11 Jun 2023, 2:18 pm)Storx wrote But even then though, it takes what is 10 mins from Eldon Square to Gateshead, you could be nearly at Team Valley by that time and once the A1 is complete it's going to be a dual carriageway all the way, or at least to the Redheugh Bridge anyway.

The better place imo would be is where the funfair is at Team Valley, then you could run non-stop buses through and additionally serve Team Valley so it has dual purpose and additional passenger flows skipping Gateshead - as no-one wants to go there.

For the other side Follingsby Park is better, not to mention it'll have a future rail connection but also for the same reason that you could have express buses which run non-stop and serve the business park aswell - maybe as an extension of the 4 and the Felling Bypass is a right slog at rush hour so would be more popular.

It's how the York P&R works, using the York Designer Village, Monks Cross and Askham Bar College instead.

No-one wants to go the Angel, so it'll happen what happens everywhere else, no-one is using it, we'll get arid of the express buses the 21 is good enough. Whoah hang on I'm not sitting on a bus that stops everywhere and takes 30 minutes. P&R closes. It's basically what happened at the Great Park with the X40 which now goes on a detour around Jesmond. That used to take 18 minutes, now it's 34 minutes!

have to say you do sometime come up with some cracking idea ( except when you moan about nexus! LOL) and i agree it my not be the best place and team valley could be a better option but its all about money isnt it.  Open this, increase that. Maybe the land at the valley was 5 million more to purchase??  also could be harder to get planning for it there.

And since you mentioned it no one wants to go to team valley on the bus....  its the same as silverlink, i dont use the buses that serve that very often but when i have no one gets on or off there.

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actually scrap that just read this from chrnicle

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...l-10865311

For starters no extra buses??? bloody hell only nutters would leave there care there and try to get on a 21 or x12 at peak times! I also assumed it was on the north side of the A! not the south side so mybe you are right... grren elephant i think

(11 Jun 2023, 2:24 pm)Rob44 wrote have to say you do sometime come up with some cracking idea ( except when you moan about nexus! LOL) and i agree it my not be the best place and team valley could be a better option but its all about money isnt it.  Open this, increase that. Maybe the land at the valley was 5 million more to purchase??  also could be harder to get planning for it there.

And since you mentioned it no one wants to go to team valley on the bus....  its the same as silverlink, i dont use the buses that serve that very often but when i have no one gets on or off there.

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actually scrap that just read this from chrnicle

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...l-10865311

For starters no extra buses??? bloody hell only nutters would leave there care there and try to get on a 21 or x12 at peak times!  I also assumed it was on the north side of the A! not the south side so mybe you are right... grren elephant i think

Aye probably but then you could argue building something used is better than building a white elephant. 

Aye don't disagree about the retail park, I was thinking more about the workers. Massive employment site if you could get 5% of people on the bus then it's a fair chunk of people. After posting it you've already technically got an express to Gateshead with the X71/X72. 

It's funny because somewhere round Silverlink would be a good spot aswell. Just off the roundabout then you could run the X39 all day pretty much and give an express bus route to Cobalt which will always have traffic. 

Similar somewhere around Quorum would be a good spot and you could use the X7/X8/X63 as the buses which all run non-stop if they improved Matthew Bank. Once you've got stuff like that then you can make the argument for punishing cars as there's a sensible alternative imo. I know some will say there's already Four Lane Ends but that involves driving the wrong direction and by the time you drive there you could be in Newcastle.