(16 Aug 2023, 1:01 pm)Storx wrote  Agree with comments later to be fair about First, some good urban areas but poor outside of it in areas arguably similar here.

First are apparently currently in the process of replacing their 09 plate E500s used on the 1/2 in Aberdeen with some very tired 61 plate E400s from Glasgow. That's a flagship route being given a significant downgrade in vehicle allocation (capacity wise) when last September the AM peak 1/2s were leaving people along several stops of Union Street even with E500s/Citaros. 

If they're not in a position to be buying new vehicles for a route which makes a killing, then I doubt they're about to go and buy a whole division which needs substantial fleet replacement.

(17 Aug 2023, 6:56 pm)mb134 wrote First are apparently currently in the process of replacing their 09 plate E500s used on the 1/2 in Aberdeen with some very tired 61 plate E400s from Glasgow. That's a flagship route being given a significant downgrade in vehicle allocation (capacity wise) when last September the AM peak 1/2s were leaving people along several stops of Union Street even with E500s/Citaros. 

If they're not in a position to be buying new vehicles for a route which makes a killing, then I doubt they're about to go and buy a whole division which needs substantial fleet replacement.

I forgot to reply to this, I always find it weird how all the Northern operators have pretty much neglected their 'home town'.

Arriva doesn't really serve Sunderland and Durham County is a complete mess.
GoNorthEast are butchering Gateshead all over the place and don't really serve Newcastle.
First are making a dogs bollocks of Aberdeen.
Stagecoach's East Scotland fleet belongs in a heritage museum.

You'd always think they'd have pride in their home patch. The 1/2 going past their HQ aswell.

This is a bit off topic for this thread but I don't know where else it would go and I didn't want to create a new thread for this question so, if I'm not mistaken Arriva have a depot at Ashington, so for the X18, which is 4 hours, either way, do the driver like take a van or something because I feel like the driving times would be very tight. I'm far from the most knowledgeable about Arriva Northumbria, could someone please explain how it works. And if I was to ever become a bus driver I would hate to drive X15/X18 routes, so can drivers refuse to drive these routes.

(20 Aug 2023, 6:01 pm)nova347 wrote This is a bit off topic for this thread but I don't know where else it would go and I didn't want to create a new thread for this question so, if I'm not mistaken Arriva have a depot at Ashington, so for the X18, which is 4 hours, either way, do the driver like take a van or something because I feel like the driving times would be very tight. I'm far from the most knowledgeable about Arriva Northumbria, could someone please explain how it works. And if I was to ever become a bus driver I would hate to drive X15/X18 routes, so can drivers refuse to drive these routes.

There is an outstation at Alnwick which cover X15 and X18 along with Ashington drivers

(20 Aug 2023, 5:14 pm)Storx wrote I forgot to reply to this, I always find it weird how all the Northern operators have pretty much neglected their 'home town'.

Arriva doesn't really serve Sunderland and Durham County is a complete mess.
GoNorthEast are butchering Gateshead all over the place and don't really serve Newcastle.
First are making a dogs bollocks of Aberdeen.
Stagecoach's East Scotland fleet belongs in a heritage museum.

You'd always think they'd have pride in their home patch. The 1/2 going past their HQ aswell.

Arriva northumbria was jesmond as head office though wasnt it?  When cowies took them over it moved to sun daland. not sure about duram but probably something similar that the head office was teeside where arriva sitill run alot of the routes?

(20 Aug 2023, 6:26 pm)Rob44 wrote Arriva northumbria was jesmond as head office though wasnt it?  When cowies took them over it moved to sun daland. not sure about duram but probably something similar that the head office was teeside where arriva sitill run alot of the routes?

Lots of the head office functions are actually at Stockton now and not Doxy, certainly the commercial team are now based there!


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(20 Aug 2023, 6:01 pm)nova347 wrote This is a bit off topic for this thread but I don't know where else it would go and I didn't want to create a new thread for this question so, if I'm not mistaken Arriva have a depot at Ashington, so for the X18, which is 4 hours, either way, do the driver like take a van or something because I feel like the driving times would be very tight. I'm far from the most knowledgeable about Arriva Northumbria, could someone please explain how it works. And if I was to ever become a bus driver I would hate to drive X15/X18 routes, so can drivers refuse to drive these routes.

As mentioned, drivers based at Alnwick tend to operate X15/X18/X20 predominantly, relieving buses at Alnwick.

Drivers based at Ashington can pretty much do anything, but i do believe there is a split rota setup at Ashington, which means depending on which rota you are on, you work either out of Ashington Town Centre or you work out of Morpeth (the latter being the express stuff X14/15/18 and Ser 2 and the former being the X20/21/22/1/35 etc).

Might be a little bit more complicated than that in practice, but generally that's how it works.

(20 Aug 2023, 7:06 pm)RobinHood wrote As mentioned, drivers based at Alnwick tend to operate X15/X18/X20 predominantly, relieving buses at Alnwick.

Drivers based at Ashington can pretty much do anything, but i do believe there is a split rota setup at Ashington, which means depending on which rota you are on, you work either out of Ashington Town Centre or you work out of Morpeth (the latter being the express stuff X14/15/18 and Ser 2 and the former being the X20/21/22/1/35 etc).

Might be a little bit more complicated than that in practice, but generally that's how it works.

So are the buses kept at Alnwick? Plus do drivers change between Alnwick and Ashington? Can you refuse to do the X15/X18 and just do like 35, the 1 etc?

(20 Aug 2023, 8:14 pm)nova347 wrote So are the buses kept at Alnwick? Plus do drivers change between Alnwick and Ashington? Can you refuse to do the X15/X18 and just do like 35, the 1 etc?

Yes about 5 or 6 buses are kept at Alnwick overnight. Alnwick and Ashington based drivers may drive the same buses at stages across the day, but am Alnwick driver will always finish their duty in Alnwick and vice versa for an Ashington driver.

No, you can't 'refuse' to do a duty, it doesn't work like that.

If a rota exists that is made up of just services that you prefer, you can request to go onto that rota, but in most cases it is more efficient to build rotas with everything the depot runs within them, so most likely you need to route learn pretty much everything.

You can swap duties with another driver if they agree, that is permissible and is probably the best way to get around doing things you like rather than what you don't.

(20 Aug 2023, 6:26 pm)Rob44 wrote Arriva northumbria was jesmond as head office though wasnt it?  When cowies took them over it moved to sun daland. not sure about duram but probably something similar that the head office was teeside where arriva sitill run alot of the routes?

Don't think Arriva Northumbria even had it's office as there.

Northumbria Limited was though, just Googling though appears Arriva used to be based in this building here Millfield House before it moved to Doxford Park - https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9066329,...?entry=ttu

It changed to there in 1996, when Cowie's took it over pretty much, then appears to move to Doxford in 1998 where it's been ever since.

(20 Aug 2023, 8:14 pm)nova347 wrote So are the buses kept at Alnwick? Plus do drivers change between Alnwick and Ashington? Can you refuse to do the X15/X18 and just do like 35, the 1 etc?

There are 5 buses stationed there, but nothing that starts at Alnwick will finish the day there, unless swapped, as all Alnwick boards will finish at Ashington to ensure maintenance can be carried out as the outstation only has fuelling facilities. Obviously throughout the day vehicles which start at Alnwick will be driven by drivers based at Ashington, and vice versa.

Alnwick drivers are based at the outstation, but can do overtime at Ashington. Ashington drivers can also do shifts at Alnwick. 

Ultimately if you're put onto a rota which includes the X15/18 you'd be expected to drive those routes. Obviously Ashington currently has the minibus rota, which new drivers tend to start on, but sometimes you'll be put onto conventional work from the start. I would say that, from what I've heard, the X15/18s are a dream to drive compared to the stuff that goes into town several times per shift - I don't see any reason you'd not want to drive them.

(20 Aug 2023, 8:20 pm)RobinHood wrote Yes about 5 or 6 buses are kept at Alnwick overnight. Alnwick and Ashington based drivers may drive the same buses at stages across the day, but am Alnwick driver will always finish their duty in Alnwick and vice versa for an Ashington driver.

No, you can't 'refuse' to do a duty, it doesn't work like that.

If a rota exists that is made up of just services that you prefer, you can request to go onto that rota, but in most cases it is more efficient to build rotas with everything the depot runs within them, so most likely you need to route learn pretty much everything.

You can swap duties with another driver if they agree, that is permissible and is probably the best way to get around doing things you like rather than what you don't.

Fair enough, so how do Alwnick and Ashington drivers swap?. Because I know before with GNE and the 10/10A/10B, between Riverside and Hexham, they just swapped at Metro.

(20 Aug 2023, 8:43 pm)nova347 wrote Fair enough, so how do Alwnick and Ashington drivers swap?. Because I know before with GNE and the 10/10A/10B, between Riverside and Hexham, they just swapped at Metro.

Swaps take place at either Morpeth or Alnwick

(20 Aug 2023, 8:25 pm)Storx wrote Don't think Arriva Northumbria even had it's office as there.

Northumbria Limited was though, just Googling though appears Arriva used to be based in this building here Millfield House before it moved to Doxford Park - https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9066329,...?entry=ttu

It changed to there in 1996, when Cowie's took it over pretty much, then appears to move to Doxford in 1998 where it's been ever since.

Wasn’t Northumbria’s head office originally in Portland Terrace opposite Jesmond depot?

(20 Aug 2023, 9:21 pm)RMF1254 wrote Wasn’t Northumbria’s head office originally in Portland Terrace opposite Jesmond depot?

Yes, at 6 Portland Terrace. The registered office changed to Millfield House in August 1996 after Cowie took over British Bus.

(20 Aug 2023, 9:21 pm)RMF1254 wrote Wasn’t Northumbria’s head office originally in Portland Terrace opposite Jesmond depot?

Yeah it was apologies, just assumed that 6 Portland Terrace was the depot address, my mistake.

(20 Aug 2023, 10:44 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it was apologies, just assumed that 6 Portland Terrace was the depot address, my mistake.

portland terrace was the adress that was on the bus near the front wheel. As was goaheads the address in dunton for anges and busways was the shields road one.

(21 Aug 2023, 9:09 am)Rob44 wrote portland terrace was the adress that was on the bus near the front wheel. As was goaheads the address in dunton for anges and busways was the shields road one.

Busways used to be Melbourne Street, Manors then it changed to Wheatsheaf after Stagecoach took over.

(21 Aug 2023, 10:23 am)Coastliner700 wrote Busways used to be Melbourne Street, Manors then it changed to Wheatsheaf after Stagecoach took over.

ah I trust your memory is better than mnie!

If Arriva do look at selling Northumbria is it possible maybe they could retrench further X15 & X18 to Borders Buses maybe- seems like an easy option many X18s start at Belford even Berwick-Alnwick via A1 isnt much further than Ashington-Alnwick. I can’t imagine a big bus operator sweeping in but I can see Borders Buses taking the X15 & X18.

(22 Aug 2023, 11:40 am)Coastliner700 wrote If Arriva do look at selling Northumbria is it possible maybe they could retrench further X15 & X18 to Borders Buses maybe- seems like an easy option many X18s start at Belford even Berwick-Alnwick via A1 isnt much further than Ashington-Alnwick. I can’t imagine a big bus operator sweeping in but I can see Borders Buses taking the X15 & X18.

No Arriva X18s start at Belford now. 

The X18 is an 8 hour round trip from Berwick to Berwick, so Borders Buses would need to invest in crew facilities at either Alnwick, Newcastle, or Morpeth. 

Both routes are currently doing very well, and the Morpeth express routes make Arriva a decent amount of money - I don't see why they'd stop operating either of them.

(22 Aug 2023, 1:49 pm)mb134 wrote No Arriva X18s start at Belford now. 

The X18 is an 8 hour round trip from Berwick to Berwick, so Borders Buses would need to invest in crew facilities at either Alnwick, Newcastle, or Morpeth. 

Both routes are currently doing very well, and the Morpeth express routes make Arriva a decent amount of money - I don't see why they'd stop operating either of them.

I don’t see why they’d sell Northumbria but that’s the title of this thread. I just commented it they weren’t to sell outright and just to retrench! Let’s not forget the 685 which at one point was solid. There are all sorts of options for operating it end to end and back again.

(22 Aug 2023, 4:18 pm)Coastliner700 wrote I don’t see why they’d sell Northumbria but that’s the title of this thread. I just commented it they weren’t to sell outright and just to retrench! Let’s not forget the 685 which at one point was solid. There are all sorts of options for operating it end to end and back again.

Aye, but them giving up services which make money is unlikely given that they want to sell the business - nobody is buying you out if you have nothing making money. 

The 685 was a very different situation. The Morpeth routes combine for a 20 minute frequency between Morpeth and Newcastle, and have full seated loads on deckers in the morning peak most days just for starters, versus an hourly route that at even at it's peak only needed a coach? There's obviously also the depot closure which meant they couldn't operate it for any longer. 

Operating it end to end and back again is possible, but only with a break somewhere. You couldn't even run it as an X18 from Berwick to Newcastle and as an X15 back, as that would still be over an hour over legal driving hours. They'd need facilities in Morpeth or Alnwick, but also a ferry car to get the first/last break of the day back from/to Berwick.

Looks like the whole of ARRIVA may have a buyer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...ify%20wall

(27 Aug 2023, 10:01 am)DeltaMan wrote Looks like the whole of ARRIVA may have a buyer https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...ify%20wall

Which is exactly the type of deal DB want to make.
The whole business, sold in one go.

No single bus or train op-co will be sold independently.

(27 Aug 2023, 11:59 am)RobinHood wrote Which is exactly the type of deal DB want to make.
The whole business, sold in one go.

No single bus or train op-co will be sold independently.

It'll be interesting to see if they follow through with this one, as it's the same investment company that pulled out of making an offer for FirstGroup: https://www.route-one.net/news/i-squared...p-pursuit/

I guess the biggest question is what do they bring to the table? There's not a lot of information about them out there, or indeed what their expertise are in transport. If they're a capital investment company, then I wonder how long before the asset strippers come in.

I Squared Capital is a private equity firm focusing on global infrastructure investments. The company invests in energy, utilities, transport and telecom projects in North America, Europe and select high growth economies, such as India and China.

Progress on the sale

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/de...023-10-13/