(10 Oct 2023, 12:15 pm)Dan wrote There are strict policies in advertising, especially for TV (a platform where this advert was used).

I think we can be quite confident that the company clearly had evidence of this annual earnings figure being genuine.

It goes without saying that it relied upon overtime and would have included accident and attendance bonuses.

No porky pies being told here.


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To get this "£650 a week after tax" you refer to, you'd need to be making £850 a week before any offtakes, which if earning the current GNE top rate of £12.83/hr would mean working a 66 hour week. Let's be generous and say 6 hrs of that is paid breaktime, 60 hours driving each week is totally unsustainable long term for anyone who wants any sort of a life.

(10 Oct 2023, 12:43 pm)Driver9*** wrote To get this "£650 a week after tax" you refer to, you'd need to be making £850 a week before any offtakes, which if earning the current GNE top rate of £12.83/hr would mean working a 66 hour week. Let's be generous and say 6 hrs of that is paid breaktime, 60 hours driving each week is totally unsustainable long term for anyone who wants any sort of a life.

Alternatively all it is is someone on the 4 day rota doing 2 days overtime on a 4 day duty, still getting a day off a week, not an amazing work/life balance but better then working everyday every week with only a 24hr period off every 14 days.


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(10 Oct 2023, 12:43 pm)Driver9*** wrote To get this "£650 a week after tax" you refer to, you'd need to be making £850 a week before any offtakes, which if earning the current GNE top rate of £12.83/hr would mean working a 66 hour week. Let's be generous and say 6 hrs of that is paid breaktime, 60 hours driving each week is totally unsustainable long term for anyone who wants any sort of a life.

You’re forgetting that:
a) overtime is paid at a higher rate - currently over £15/hr on weekends at some locations, so you can’t just use £12.83/hr
b) drivers can do part of a shift (called ‘half shifts’) at GNE, where even an under an hour’s worth of driving is paid at 3hrs.
c) some drivers work at alternative depots and receive a 1-1.5hr travel time payment, as it is not their home depot.
d) depending on coverage, some split shift drivers (paid at 7hrs 48 daily) with far less driving are sometimes paid through, in order to aid coverage.
e) shorter duties are paid out at a minimum of 7hrs. It is not unheard of for drivers to do a special event (with minimal driving time) before or after their main duty, to increase their earnings.

I understand ‘half shifts’ are quite a unique thing to GNE.


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(10 Oct 2023, 1:08 pm)pbjd wrote Alternatively all it is is someone on the 4 day rota doing 2 days overtime on a 4 day duty, still getting a day off a week, not an amazing work/life balance but better then working everyday every week with only a 24hr period off every 14 days.


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Precisely!

There are a lot of 4-day week drivers at GNE who are on this rota, not because they want to work four days, but to maximise the amount of overtime they can do.


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(10 Oct 2023, 1:11 pm)Dan wrote Precisely!

There are a lot of 4-day week drivers at GNE who are on this rota, not because they want to work four days, but to maximise the amount of overtime they can do.


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Have you ever tried working six 10/11hr shifts in a row? It's absolutely brutal. I did four in a row at Arriva and that was bad enough.

(10 Oct 2023, 1:28 pm)Driver9*** wrote Have you ever tried working six 10/11hr shifts in a row? It's absolutely brutal. I did four in a row at Arriva and that was bad enough.

It also really unhealthy to try and sustain, both physically and mentally. It may be 'within the rules', but it's irresponsible to use a carrot and stick approach to try and encourage it. Once you're working that many hours, without proper rest, you'll start suffering from fatigue. With fatigue comes a decreased reaction time, attention span and statistically more likely to have an accident.

All that aside, the biggest issue is that people feel they need to do all this in order to live comfortably. It should be enough that you're working a full time job and you can enjoy your earnings on an evening or weekend/rest days, without burning yourself into the ground.

(10 Oct 2023, 1:10 pm)Dan wrote b) drivers can do part of a shift (called ‘half shifts’) at GNE, where even an under an hour’s worth of driving is paid at 3hrs.

I understand ‘half shifts’ are quite a unique thing to GNE.

I work for Stagecoach, can go out and pick up half a journey and be paid the 3 hours for it.

Not uncommon for drivers to be offered it to extend their service to beyond a changeover point to keep going into the city centre when there isn't a relief.

Not unique to Go North East at all.

(10 Oct 2023, 1:28 pm)Driver9*** wrote Have you ever tried working six 10/11hr shifts in a row? It's absolutely brutal. I did four in a row at Arriva and that was bad enough.

Yes, I have. I regularly do.

Your experience of 4-day week shifts at Arriva can’t be compared to Go North East, when the scheduling agreements at Arriva are a lot harsher. I also imagine you were working more intensive services.


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(10 Oct 2023, 1:10 pm)Dan wrote You’re forgetting that:
a) overtime is paid at a higher rate - currently over £15/hr on weekends at some locations, so you can’t just use £12.83/hr
b) drivers can do part of a shift (called ‘half shifts’) at GNE, where even an under an hour’s worth of driving is paid at 3hrs.
c) some drivers work at alternative depots and receive a 1-1.5hr travel time payment, as it is not their home depot.
d) depending on coverage, some split shift drivers (paid at 7hrs 48 daily) with far less driving are sometimes paid through, in order to aid coverage.
e) shorter duties are paid out at a minimum of 7hrs. It is not unheard of for drivers to do a special event (with minimal driving time) before or after their main duty, to increase their earnings.

I understand ‘half shifts’ are quite a unique thing to GNE.


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So basically your trying to use every type of payment to justify the figure, how many drivers would get all these? None is the answer.

Again half shifts less than an hour, very very very rare. And yeah if its 2.5hrs ill get paid for the 3hrs, but then take into account that if its after my shift it generally isnt straight after, i might have to wait around 30 mins anyway to start that half shift, technically not working but im still there.

Oh and you regularly do 6 ten hour driving shifts? Im suprised you manage to get any work done in your actual job role then, being a bus enthusiast and general boot licker probably helps with that a bit though right?

(10 Oct 2023, 3:00 pm)sawyer.jshawn wrote So basically your trying to use every type of payment to justify the figure, how many drivers would get all these? None is the answer.

Again half shifts less than an hour, very very very rare. And yeah if its 2.5hrs ill get paid for the 3hrs, but then take into account that if its after my shift it generally isnt straight after, i might have to wait around 30 mins anyway to start that half shift, technically not working but im still there.

Oh and you regularly do 6 ten hour driving shifts? Im suprised you manage to get any work done in your actual job role then, being a bus enthusiast and general boot licker probably helps with that a bit though right?

By coming back with quite a personal post targeting me, you’ve just proven to the rest of the forum that you can’t make points well enough to back up your argument in a debate against the points I’ve raised.

It takes balls to call someone ‘a bus enthusiast and general boot licker’ on an internet forum, anonymously, so well done.


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With such stunning pay and work life balance on offer it’s amazing that we’re suffering such poor industrial relations

Quite clearly, GNE is the place to be (as opposed to home, or with your friends or having any sort of life)

(10 Oct 2023, 6:20 am)Ianthegoon wrote Ummm ..... isn't nineteen days without a day off just a bit ..... illegal?!

Yes it is unless you're very crafty with your start/end times.

The rule is 24 hours' continuous break after 13 days, so you could, say, work 0600-1500 on day 13, then work 1600-2400 on day 14, and you'd be legal, which I suspect is what that driver's doing.

(10 Oct 2023, 6:05 pm)F114TML wrote Yes it is unless you're very crafty with your start/end times.

The rule is 24 hours' continuous break after 13 days, so you could, say, work 0600-1500 on day 13, then work 1600-2400 on day 14, and you'd be legal, which I suspect is what that driver's doing.

Which may be in line with the rules on fortnightly rest, but I'd argue not within the spirit of them.

Whenever I look at the GB domestic rules, I can't help but think the whole thing requires a massive overhaul. I wonder if any Unions are campaigning on this? The whole thing is like something from the Victorian times, compared to say the Working Time Directive. 

An office worker is entitled to 1 day in 7 or 2 days in 14 off (and in reality it's closer to 39 or 63 hours), yet someone driving a bus carrying 60+ people can manage with not even a single proper day off to relax. At the same time, they could be (and apparently, encouraged to) working up to 60 hour weeks on the bounce.

Madness. Surprised they aren't asking you to bring your kids in and sending them up the chimney, whilst they're at it.

(10 Oct 2023, 2:32 pm)omnicity4659 wrote I work for Stagecoach, can go out and pick up half a journey and be paid the 3 hours for it.

Not uncommon for drivers to be offered it to extend their service to beyond a changeover point to keep going into the city centre when there isn't a relief.

Not unique to Go North East at all.

Just last Saturday I offered to do a bit afterduty. Took a bus out of the depot to the town, did a 10 to Grangetown, 11 to Pennywell (last bus) then brought it back. Less than an hour driving and I got paid 3 hours. It's not that hard to get your paid hours up without linearly increasing your working hours if you know what you're doing.

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(10 Oct 2023, 6:11 pm)Adrian wrote Which may be in line with the rules on fortnightly rest, but I'd argue not within the spirit of them.

Whenever I look at the GB domestic rules, I can't help but think the whole thing requires a massive overhaul. I wonder if any Unions are campaigning on this? The whole thing is like something from the Victorian times, compared to say the Working Time Directive. 

An office worker is entitled to 1 day in 7 or 2 days in 14 off (and in reality it's closer to 39 or 63 hours), yet someone driving a bus carrying 60+ people can manage with not even a single proper day off to relax. At the same time, they could be (and apparently, encouraged to) working up to 60 hour weeks on the bounce.

Madness. Surprised they aren't asking you to bring your kids in and sending them up the chimney, whilst they're at it.

The rules have been in place since the 60s. Our union (and I suspect basically every bus driver union in the country) will not allow a company to get to those limits, unless the driver chooses to do so. Not sure what it's like at GNE but our rotas give 2 rest days per calendar week. That may involve working 8 or 9 days in a row, but that'll end in a long weekend (fri, sat, sun, mon - or just sat, sun, mon on rotas that have every sunday off). In addition, one of the first things that was pointed out to me when I joined was that we have the right to refuse to work a rest day.

Slightly OT (move if required) but i think with the current situation, GNE wouldn't retaliate if someone else tried to compete with them.

(10 Oct 2023, 6:41 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Slightly OT (move if required) but i think with the current situation, GNE wouldn't retaliate if someone else tried to compete with them.

Is there any ‘retaliation’ or indeed competition in the industry at the moment?

(10 Oct 2023, 3:00 pm)sawyer.jshawn wrote So basically your trying to use every type of payment to justify the figure, how many drivers would get all these? None is the answer.

Again half shifts less than an hour, very very very rare. And yeah if its 2.5hrs ill get paid for the 3hrs, but then take into account that if its after my shift it generally isnt straight after, i might have to wait around 30 mins anyway to start that half shift, technically not working but im still there.

Oh and you regularly do 6 ten hour driving shifts? Im suprised you manage to get any work done in your actual job role then, being a bus enthusiast and general boot licker probably helps with that a bit though right?

Not withstanding the fact that I doubt you'd say this to his face, neither on a 1-1 level nor with an audience, one of the most cowardly things one can do is attack someone who isn't in a position to properly defend themselves.

(10 Oct 2023, 6:47 pm)Bazza wrote Is there any ‘retaliation’ or indeed competition in the industry at the moment?

No, but if someone decided to register a more frequent dupe of something like the 21 or 27, i don't believe GNE would have the drivers, vehicles or money to match them, especially if the upstart goes big and bold.

(10 Oct 2023, 6:56 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote No, but if someone decided to register a more frequent dupe of something like the 21 or 27, i don't believe GNE would have the drivers, vehicles or money to match them, especially if the upstart goes big and bold.

I think in other circumstances there could well have been attempts, however given both Arriva and Stagecoach seem to be struggling for drivers themselves (and neither seem to have a huge surplus of buses) I think GNE are fairly safe from any competition. 

That said, Stagecoach seem to be gaining quite a bit of contract work throughout the region. I'd assume the guaranteed cash is rather appealing to their commercial department, and operations will be expected to find resources, rather than a situation where they'd be the new operator on a competitive corridor without guaranteed income.

Can someone shed some light on whether they'll be striking again next week?

(11 Oct 2023, 9:33 pm)itsadam wrote Can someone shed some light on whether they'll be striking again next week?

There was a post going around of FB saying the strikes arent going ahead but I think it was fake

(11 Oct 2023, 9:33 pm)itsadam wrote Can someone shed some light on whether they'll be striking again next week?

As things stand, yes, from Saturday.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/update-industrial-action

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(11 Oct 2023, 9:35 pm)Adrian wrote As things stand, yes, from Saturday.

https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/update-industrial-action

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It's actually a joke. As much as I support a pay rise the communication from the company is close to non-existent

(11 Oct 2023, 9:51 pm)itsadam wrote It's actually a joke. As much as I support a pay rise the communication from the company is close to non-existent

Yeah, certainly official communications anyway.

I've seen a couple of office staff with the unofficial propaganda lines towards the dispute on resident Facebook groups lately.

Unsure if that is part of their industrial relations strategy or people working freelance, but I reckon most customers would prefer to hear it straight from the company.

(11 Oct 2023, 9:56 pm)Adrian wrote Yeah, certainly official communications anyway.

I've seen a couple of office staff with the unofficial propaganda lines towards the dispute on resident Facebook groups lately.

Unsure if that is part of their industrial relations strategy or people working freelance, but I reckon most customers would prefer to hear it straight from the company.

Indeed, and as much abuse as he gets here, to his credit in the face of provocation Dan isn’t one of them and keeps a professional silence (don’t worry Dan, I’m not getting soft, I’d still sack the lot of you…or at least retrain you) 

I’ve seen non striking General Managers, Dogsbody enthusiast types gloating on Twitter and Facebook and it does leave a sour taste but also unlocks why there’s such unhappiness and strained relations. You can’t stop those people holding their views but it seems GNE in particular have a real issue with wholly unprofessional and unregulated social media behaviour and you again have to say…where is the leadership? The coaching? I’m sure Go Ahead Head Office is  detached from the day to day (another issue) but if you sent those tweets and Facebook posts to any professional organisation…they’d be gone and I say this as a warning to members of those Facebook groups and those who tweet…you’re clearly in breach and if adults at Go Ahead get involved….you’re gone

(11 Oct 2023, 10:28 pm)Ambassador wrote Indeed, and as much abuse as he gets here, to his credit in the face of provocation Dan isn’t one of them and keeps a professional silence (don’t worry Dan, I’m not getting soft, I’d still sack the lot of you…or at least retrain you) 

Aww, I might blush!

I suppose someone needs to be re-trained to be the cleaner, if she’s gonna get sacked too!


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(12 Oct 2023, 6:18 am)Dan wrote Aww, I might blush!

I suppose someone needs to be re-trained to be the cleaner, if she’s gonna get sacked too!


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Did you just assume their identity?!

Can't go round saying things like that these days

(11 Oct 2023, 10:28 pm)Ambassador wrote Indeed, and as much abuse as he gets here, to his credit in the face of provocation Dan isn’t one of them and keeps a professional silence (don’t worry Dan, I’m not getting soft, I’d still sack the lot of you…or at least retrain you)  

I’ve seen non striking General Managers, Dogsbody enthusiast types gloating on Twitter and Facebook and it does leave a sour taste but also unlocks why there’s such unhappiness and strained relations. You can’t stop those people holding their views but it seems GNE in particular have a real issue with wholly unprofessional and unregulated social media behaviour and you again have to say…where is the leadership? The coaching? I’m sure Go Ahead Head Office is  detached from the day to day (another issue) but if you sent those tweets and Facebook posts to any professional organisation…they’d be gone and I say this as a warning to members of those Facebook groups and those who tweet…you’re clearly in breach and if adults at Go Ahead get involved….you’re gone

You can't do that to our very own Dan. He's (almost) award winning!

Definitely agree about the official communications, certainly on the official GNE facebook page at least. I was having a scroll through earlier today and there was comment on the potential for 4 weeks or 8 weeks. No idea who the people were, if they're connected to the company or not, but certainly no official response from the company one way or the other.

(12 Oct 2023, 11:45 am)Andreos1 wrote You can't do that to our very own Dan. He's (almost) award winning!

An award which carries as much legitimacy as the award i received, a trophy nonetheless, for competing in a 5-a-side Football Tournament at Blaydon Youth Club in 1988.

As for the Wrekenton Residents FB Page equivalent to Messrs. Hignett and Clifford, it doesn't matter which bus company they work for as to kick the industry up the arse, you'd have to put your foot through the back of their heads first. Clueless.

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