(26 Jan 2024, 6:12 pm)Storx wrote The 319 ran in between all that aswell at some point, by GCT. It also ran before it aswell with the 310, running pretty much the 342 between Wallsend and Cramlington.

Yup
The original 310 was Blyth-Sunderland
The original 319 was Cramlington-Sunderland
On that stretch there's also been
Original 317
17
11 (GNE)
300 
333
Current 317
There was also the trial of the 919 that ran upto the Cobalt
And the 10/11 to the Cobalt before it was re-routed to North Shields
On a seperate subject, i've been think about the 335
I wonder if it would be feasible to add a quick little de-tour into Holystone Park on its travels offering better links to Metro stations, they'd then have access to Northumberland Park (M(and rail)) (351), Four Lane Ends (M) (335)

(27 Jan 2024, 1:20 am)V514DFT wrote Yup
The original 310 was Blyth-Sunderland
The original 319 was Cramlington-Sunderland
On that stretch there's also been
Original 317
17
11 (GNE)
300 
333
Current 317
There was also the trial of the 919 that ran upto the Cobalt
And the 10/11 to the Cobalt before it was re-routed to North Shields
On a seperate subject, i've been think about the 335
I wonder if it would be feasible to add a quick little de-tour into Holystone Park on its travels offering better links to Metro stations, they'd then have access to Northumberland Park (M(and rail)) (351), Four Lane Ends (M) (335)

Aye crazy corridor which no-one knows what to do with tbh. 

Btw on the 335 what's the loads like, never seen it around but it's a right obscure route as an understatement with arguably no destination at the Hadrian Park end.

(27 Jan 2024, 9:40 am)Storx wrote Aye crazy corridor which no-one knows what to do with tbh. 

Btw on the 335 what's the loads like, never seen it around but it's a right obscure route as an understatement with arguably no destination at the Hadrian Park end.

The 335 gets decent loads in the peaks (probably with people heading to and from Tyneview Park/Quorum/BT) but never seen many on it during the day.

Numbers have dropped now since GNE started running it though, as the timings aren't as good as they used to be. The old timings when GCT were running it were better for starting times at BT/Quorum (getting there just before 8/9/10). Obviously that's not the fault of GNE, but more Nexus.

(25 Jan 2024, 11:09 pm)Ambassador wrote The thing with BSIP is that it’s being administered by the same people who have overseen a total collapse in the network or who have never been on a bus in their lives.

We need more buses for those 9-5 office based workers!
Newcastle to Sunderland only has a metro, a northern rail service and the worlds slowest bus..let’s add more buses, that sounds an idea

And the X24

(27 Jan 2024, 9:57 am)Thomas12 wrote The 335 gets decent loads in the peaks (probably with people heading to and from Tyneview Park/Quorum/BT) but never seen many on it during the day.

Numbers have dropped now since GNE started running it though, as the timings aren't as good as they used to be. The old timings when GCT were running it were better for starting times at BT/Quorum (getting there just before 8/9/10). Obviously that's not the fault of GNE, but more Nexus.

Aye that's fair, had a feelings the peaks would be alright. It's one of those routes outside of the peak where you think now why would anyone want to use that..?

Other than ASDA there's literally nothing unique about it which other buses don't do already do which are more frequent.

335 timings are an issue especially leaving Killingworth off memory serves leaves a minute or two after 342 to Wallsend and in turn is a quicker service via Forest Hall to Asda and station Road /Mullen Road Shops

With regards to extending 335 to Holystone I would look at extending the 351 from Holystone to Northumberland Park even on an evening

I would change the 335 after quarom and go via the old route past the station pub and over the level crossing then round Killingworth loop (anti clockwise so it goes via the school into Killingworth bus station) it also creates a link for camperdown and Burradon industrial estates

(28 Jan 2024, 11:14 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote 335 timings are an issue  especially leaving Killingworth off memory serves leaves a minute or two after 342 to Wallsend  and in turn is a quicker service  via Forest Hall to Asda and station Road /Mullen Road Shops

With regards to extending 335 to Holystone I would look at extending the 351 from Holystone to Northumberland Park even on an evening

I would change the 335 after quarom and go via the old route past the station pub and over the level crossing then round Killingworth loop (anti clockwise so it goes via the school into Killingworth bus station)  it also creates a link for camperdown and Burradon industrial estates

Aye that seems a bit of a problem mind. I've always thought that the 335/342 should merged into one and act as a loop around Killingworth and even the Wallsend end (restore the Battle Hill to Howdon links) and do what you mentioned to the West of Killingworth.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Statio...?entry=ttu - Maybe something like that, would open up places like Forest Hall to Quorum etc which is impossible atm. Additionally serving West Street (ran out of pins) and Quorum (can't because of the bus gate).

The rest of the 342 could be served by an extended 359 which could be Westerhope to Whitley Bay via Killingworth and Backworth, would restore some of the lost Whitley Bay links lost. It's arguably better than the dogleg Wallsend link, now it doesn't serve Cramlington

anyone know how the 2/2A/56 are doing now that its every 30 mins from the galleries on an evening and  the 56 every 12 mins loading wise?

The changes do seem to have created a slight downgrade on the X21 - few Angels' working it and Corporate London heaps been kicking about the past few days

(02 Feb 2024, 10:36 am)Ambassador wrote The changes do seem to have created a slight downgrade on the X21 - few Angels' working it and Corporate London heaps been kicking about the past few days

Clearly some fleet stability needs to happen at Riverside for the X21. Has never been right from the off with the ex-London B7TL's then the unsuitable first generation of StreetDecks.

Slightly OT but does anyone have a copy of the X20 timetable from before it was extended to langley park

(02 Feb 2024, 10:36 am)Ambassador wrote The changes do seem to have created a slight downgrade on the X21 - few Angels' working it and Corporate London heaps been kicking about the past few days

Very customer friendly welcome from my driver today at the changeover point.... "Second one of these crap ones I've had today"

(02 Feb 2024, 2:10 pm)DeltaMan wrote Very customer friendly welcome from my driver today at the changeover point.... "Second one of these crap ones I've had today"

Few missing Angel runs today but the buses haven't gone to waste...3 of them seem to be kicking around the X21

(02 Feb 2024, 4:41 pm)Ambassador wrote Few missing Angel runs today but the buses haven't gone to waste...3 of them seem to be kicking around the X21

Seems to be the new 'Rob Peter to Pay Paul' at GNE, mind whilst it makes a mockery of route branding and advertising certain features, the alternative is sending the likes of those E400s with incredibly firm seats to crawl all the way to West Auckland.

Does anyone know if the X20 is tendered for Deckers? I just find it a bit strange how a bus route which wasn't sustainable at all on a commercial basis, now suddenly needs Deckers on it. It's going from one extreme to the other.

Surely the Enviro 200 MMC's which are going from pillar to post lately could've done it instead with the B5TL's being at Riverside or Consett who are both struggling with Decker's lately.

(02 Feb 2024, 10:26 pm)Storx wrote Does anyone know if the X20 is tendered for Deckers? I just find it a bit strange how a bus route which wasn't sustainable at all on a commercial basis, now suddenly needs Deckers on it. It's going from one extreme to the other.

Surely the Enviro 200 MMC's which are going from pillar to post lately could've done it instead with the B5TL's being at Riverside or Consett who are both struggling with Decker's lately.

Was it ever deemed not commercially sustainable? It was originally only pulled temporarily. I don't think they ever confirmed a permanent plan for it.

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

(02 Feb 2024, 10:31 pm)Adrian wrote Was it ever deemed not commercially sustainable? It was originally only pulled temporarily. I don't think they ever confirmed a permanent plan for it.

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

I'd hope so, since it's propped up by the BSIP.

I don't really want to go down the speculating avenue of it being viable, but when free cash was being thrown around, it suddenly because unsustainable. Not that I'd be surprised mind.

Take the funding element away.

If you reintroduce a bus service and promote it as a "fast link" you want some of your best buses to showcase the route to build confidence

You must also consider the cost per mile these buses do compared to others to make it "profitable" short medium and long term

You would soon complain if you had 15yr old plus double decks that 41 41a often sees ?

(02 Feb 2024, 10:56 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Take the funding element away.

If you reintroduce a bus service and promote it as a "fast link" you want some of your best buses to showcase the route to build confidence

You must also consider the cost per mile these buses do compared to others to make it "profitable" short medium and long term

You would soon complain if you had 15yr old plus double decks that 41 41a often sees ?

Agreed to be fair, it's why I mentioned the Enviro 200 MMC's which haven't really ever had a role since they got removed off the 97. Arguably they're an upgrade on the B5TL's anyway. Got the new GoNorthEast interior, nicer seats etc.

Even Pre COVID though, I can't remember them having capacity issues with the Merc's but might be wrong there?

See when I hear capacity issue I think NIMBY passengers

Not in my back yard...

These days a single decker say 40 seats is realistic 20 seats why

Every one sits and has a row to themselves
If alone with friends I'ts a little different as two would sit together

So capacity "perception is reduced" as the bus is full If a single decker If one person sits on each row of two seats...

I always recall the GCT BUS I used to get on a morning before driving to work

17 people sitting on a bus and it looked full on a 30 ish seater bus

The aim should be not to feel cramped sniffing armpits listening to other music or standing on the bus from Durham to Sland

(02 Feb 2024, 11:13 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote See when I hear capacity issue I think NIMBY passengers

Not in my back yard...

These days a single decker say 40 seats is realistic 20 seats why

Every one sits and has a row to themselves
If alone with friends I'ts a little different as two would sit together

So capacity "perception is reduced" as the bus is full If a single decker If one person sits on each row of two seats...

I always recall the GCT BUS  I used to get on a morning before driving to work

17 people sitting on a bus and it looked full on a 30 ish seater bus

The aim should be not to feel cramped sniffing armpits listening to other music or standing on the bus from Durham to Sland

I'd agree with you usually, but right now there's other routes like the X30/X31/X45, in particular, which are running around with single deckers because of the shortages at Consett. Not to mention the X5/X15 going around with anything with 4 wheels lately, including a Solo earlier this week.

Surely they should be higher priority than some new bus route. The B5's would've been ideal to sort that mess out.

Obviously this all comes down to lack of investment mind, but I'm never a fan of robbing one route for another.

I don't think it is lack of investment

We all know London needs the amazing buses and the mid life workhorses need to be cascaded elsewhere

I think a as a personal opinion that the group reorganisation is to blame incorporating GNE into East Yorkshire

Which Martijn at the time had to take under his remit

Then we saw ECMS under GNE suddenly become part of GNWest

Under the MD control now how many buses is he in charge control never-mind the public ownership of Manchester "bee Network" plus travelling between Newcastle and Manchester by train or car with an added trip from Scarborough to Manchester

The area is out of depth for a plc company and needs be chopped up

Many people have views of Martijn but as a North East Region he did a canny job of even improving "tat" aka midlife buses

His biggest test was covid when he shut down depots used them as storage depots to run a service

During the initial covid outbreak the best mile per bus was running and worst performing buses was VOR

We need to really consider is the area for Nigel too big as a MD which will be a failure

He will see stats and figures but will never understand or visit villages like Quaking Houses or Greenside or even No-Place or High Haddenhold

He will go on data its how the PLc wants to run the business

As an MD

If Manchester is busier and more profitable would you not send the best to that area

I may be cynical but hasn't a few buses went to Manchester recently aka in the past 12 months ?

I don’t really buy that. Most major businesses have leaders who run operations across countries never mind counties.

It’s about having the right leader in place with the right team around them. The leader should be strategic, overseeing and owning the strategy whilst employing support teams and managers who implement it. He shouldn’t be anywhere near the day to day aside an inform. Local level management should be more than capable. The problem is seemingly GNE don’t have that level of skill under Nigel so balls are being dropped.

I don’t think the lack of investment is necessarily in stock. London buses really aren’t that amazing, they’ve just started getting gimmicks like usb etc. The lack of investment is in the network and in people hence the dispute in 2023. There’s no buy in, no local leadership and that naturally demotivates and causes performance issues.

Either that or stevie wonder is doing allocations at riverside

(02 Feb 2024, 10:26 pm)Storx wrote Does anyone know if the X20 is tendered for Deckers? I just find it a bit strange how a bus route which wasn't sustainable at all on a commercial basis, now suddenly needs Deckers on it. It's going from one extreme to the other.

Surely the Enviro 200 MMC's which are going from pillar to post lately could've done it instead with the B5TL's being at Riverside or Consett who are both struggling with Decker's lately.

The whole issue is that Derwentside is rota'd and interworked around the X30/X31 due to the low height decker bridge around Ellison Road yet, Riverside are having to make do with wholly unsuitable vehicles for the X21 and hardly no cover for the X10 other than 6377.

There's a reason why Arriva Ashington have had E400 / E400MMC on the X14/X15/X18/X20 and X21/X22.

Surely any inefficiencies restructuring the Derwentside network to release E400MMC's to Riverside would be balanced by a reduction in lost mileage and increase in passenger confidence.

(03 Feb 2024, 12:00 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote I don't think it is lack of investment

We all know London needs the amazing buses and the mid life workhorses need to be cascaded elsewhere

I think a as a personal opinion that the group reorganisation is to blame incorporating GNE into East Yorkshire 

Which Martijn at the time had to take under his remit

Then we saw ECMS under GNE suddenly become part of GNWest

Under the MD control now how many buses is he in charge control never-mind the public ownership of Manchester "bee Network" plus travelling between Newcastle and Manchester by train or car with an added trip from Scarborough to Manchester

The area is out of depth for a plc company and needs be chopped up

Many people have views of Martijn but as a North East Region he did a canny job of even improving "tat" aka midlife buses

His biggest test was covid when he shut down depots used them as storage depots to run a service

During the initial covid outbreak the best mile per bus was running and worst performing  buses was VOR 

We need to really consider is the area for Nigel  too big as a MD which will be a failure

He will see stats and figures but will never understand or visit villages like Quaking Houses or Greenside or even No-Place or High Haddenhold

He will go on data its how the PLc wants to run the business 

As an MD

If Manchester is busier and more profitable would you not send the best to that area

I may be cynical but hasn't a few buses went to Manchester recently aka in the past 12 months ?

Have to agree with the post after mostly about the leadership to be fair, surely Bex Maxfield is the one who should be running the show on the ground with Nigel overlooking it. Mind if his PR Comms are the same as his ability at management then god help GNE.

Btw I wouldn't exactly call the fleet coming from London mid life, they're more end of life, some of them are over 15 years old. They'd be fine for schools or the odd spare but they appear to be in frontline on the 51/52/93/94. The first two which had new buses in 2016. Obviously if they had a decent refurb then that'd be fine but they haven't either. 

To me, and this is pure speculation, it really feels like they're trying to cut costs in every place to flog it off on the cheap. Nigel doing both as when it goes, he'll head straight to Manchester only. Not sure who'd want it though mind.

Between the 21/X10/X21 there is Flexability, 6333, 3 Angles and 6377.

Theres pretty much always atleast 1 X10 off, one-four X21, and 3 21's. However a lot of this is due to incompetent allocating, such as putting them on school routes or the 57.

(03 Feb 2024, 12:00 am)DaveFromUpNorth wrote I don't think it is lack of investment

We all know London needs the amazing buses and the mid life workhorses need to be cascaded elsewhere

I think a as a personal opinion that the group reorganisation is to blame incorporating GNE into East Yorkshire 

Which Martijn at the time had to take under his remit

Then we saw ECMS under GNE suddenly become part of GNWest

Under the MD control now how many buses is he in charge control never-mind the public ownership of Manchester "bee Network" plus travelling between Newcastle and Manchester by train or car with an added trip from Scarborough to Manchester

The area is out of depth for a plc company and needs be chopped up

Many people have views of Martijn but as a North East Region he did a canny job of even improving "tat" aka midlife buses 

His biggest test was covid when he shut down depots used them as storage depots to run a service

During the initial covid outbreak the best mile per bus was running and worst performing  buses was VOR 

We need to really consider is the area for Nigel  too big as a MD which will be a failure

He will see stats and figures but will never understand or visit villages like Quaking Houses or Greenside or even No-Place or High Haddenhold

He will go on data its how the PLc wants to run the business 

As an MD

If Manchester is busier and more profitable would you not send the best to that area

I may be cynical but hasn't a few buses went to Manchester recently aka in the past 12 months ?

Wasted money imo. 
Said so at the time and still believe it now. 
Before Covid, there was a chance to revise the network. 
In the months following, there was another opportunity to revise it. Probably the best opportunity there ever was. 

Instead, he continued to titivate and assume that would bring passengers back.
Totally forgetting the change in passenger habits, journeys or many other factors that came in to play. 

The titivations could have came about after the network was reassessed. Assuming that's what passengers actually wanted and not what people thought they wanted.

(03 Feb 2024, 9:04 am)Unber43 wrote Between the 21/X10/X21 there is Flexability, 6333, 3 Angles and 6377.

Theres pretty much always atleast 1 X10 off, one-four X21, and 3 21's. However a lot of this is due to incompetent allocating, such as putting them on school routes or the 57.

6333 is Washington based now.

(03 Feb 2024, 1:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote Wasted money imo. 
Said so at the time and still believe it now. 
Before Covid, there was a chance to revise the network. 
In the months following, there was another opportunity to revise it. Probably the best opportunity there ever was. 

Instead, he continued to titivate and assume that would bring passengers back.
Totally forgetting the change in passenger habits, journeys or many other factors that came in to play. 

The titivations could have came about after the network was reassessed. Assuming that's what passengers actually wanted and not what people thought they wanted.

To be fair, he done the complete opposite and cut everything wayyy too early. Middle of a pandemic and they're more arsed about cramming bums on seats, no wonder some people didn't return as they were literally scared and why would you now want to use a bus which was every 15 minutes and now every 30 minutes, if it's the X45/X46 with the fare (at the time) near 30% more expensive for the priviledge.

Credit to Stagecoach and Arriva for holding off, bar a few more sensible changes ie. dropping buses from every 20 to 30 but upgrading the capacity at the same time. Seems to paid off, in most areas (not all ofc).

I think it's worth pointing out that to qualify for CBSSG, an operator needed to run 90% (I think) off pre COVID mileage in order to get help. So, even if they wanted to make fundamental changes, they couldn't (unless they totally redesigned the entire network with out of date data which came to a similar mileage)

6022 on the Angel, we got overtaken by a bike on Newcastle Bank out of Birtley

Better than ever..,