There were two Berries Versas in service yesterday, I didn't realise there was even 2 left in service.

(18 Jan 2025, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers as, although they should only be used on scholars, GNE uses too many dual doorway buses on normal service.

It's the newest dual doors (60 plate) that they have converted as well - clearly expecting to get another three or so so years out of them. 
Plenty of older buses to withdraw first!

Just shows the sad state of the fleet to me that the answer is 15 year old vehicles doing frontline work due to complete lack of investment. The fleet is getting on all over the place and it's not just rump routes that are affected nowadays either. The likes of the 10 etc are really overdue something new(er) but as far as I'm aware there's nothing planned with those vehicles going onto the likes of the X5/X15 with those vehicles being the school buses rather than spending money converting dual door vehicles from London which are well past their best.

I'd even say do something like Arriva did by spending money on new buses on a more profitable area and displace their buses up North like at Durham so everyone wins if the state of the North East is that bad they don't want to directly spend money on it.

(18 Jan 2025, 1:12 pm)deanmachine wrote There were two Berries Versas in service yesterday, I didn't realise there was even 2 left in service.

Ye, so much for them to be going when the streetlites entered service... both are in service again too.

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(18 Jan 2025, 1:18 pm)Storx wrote Just shows the sad state of the fleet to me that the answer is 15 year old vehicles doing frontline work due to complete lack of investment. The fleet is getting on all over the place and it's not just rump routes that are affected nowadays either. The likes of the 10 etc are really overdue something new(er) but as far as I'm aware there's nothing planned with those vehicles going onto the likes of the X5/X15 with those vehicles being the school buses rather than spending money converting dual door vehicles from London which are well past their best.

I'd even say do something like Arriva did by spending money on new buses on a more profitable area and displace their buses up North like at Durham so everyone wins if the state of the North East is that bad they don't want to directly spend money on it.

Sure the last BIG investment was the E200/400MMC's/Streetdecks for the 97 and X-Lines.


Sad really, company is falling apart atm, needs investment soon, the buses which we're ordered in 2013? (B9's for the 56 etc, Citaro's for the 4 etc) are all now midlife and will need replacing soon, which was around 100 buses?



Edit: Hopefully some of them are replaced when the electrics arrive for the 21 and 58........ when ever they'll arrive............... wouldn't mind seeing the Streetdecks on the 56.

(18 Jan 2025, 1:24 pm)Michael wrote Ye, so much for them to be going when the streetlites entered service... both are in service again too.

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Sure the last BIG investment was the E200/400MMC's/Streetdecks for the 97 and X-Lines.


Sad really, company is falling apart atm, needs investment soon, the buses which we're ordered in 2013? (B9's for the 56 etc, Citaro's for the 4 etc) are all now midlife and will need replacing soon, which was around 100 buses?



Edit: Hopefully some of them are replaced when the electrics arrive for the 21 and 58........ when ever they'll arrive............... wouldn't mind seeing the Streetdecks on the 56.

Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

(18 Jan 2025, 2:50 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

They need to make a decision, do they want to go full electric, and invest in making their depots run electric fleets, or do they buy more new diesels.

One can only hope when contract time comes for Franchising that Kim and co take into account GNEs utter incompetence

Tho in reality a more successful and competent operator like metro line will probably take the contracts, maybe even stagecoach, GNE is a dead husk walking

(18 Jan 2025, 6:04 pm)deanmachine wrote They need to make a decision, do they want to go full electric, and invest in making their depots run electric fleets, or do they buy more new diesels.

Aye agreed. The only way I can see any form of fleet renewal otherwise would be to just spend a fortune on places like Oxford and Brighton and just send their 'newer' Diesels to places like the North East. 

Not ideal for up here though but would scrape them through to 2028 or whenever the franchising starts

(18 Jan 2025, 2:50 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

Still doesn't help that GNE's most capable modern deckers (E400MMC) aren't being used on the X10 & X21 (GNE's longest services) whilst they're p*****g more money up the wall on remote reliefs in Stanley, complete opposite to the last management who in their credit at the time had a good interworking pattern.

There's also the business risk to consider too:

Current situation risks & benefits on the X10 / X21 and Derwentside:
- Poor timekeeping & breakdowns = underpowered vehicles or lack of suitable spares.

- Lack of passenger confidence = passengers might look at alternative forms of transport.

- High recovery costs = long distances to M.Boro and W.Auckland.

- Risk of competition = Arriva depots in Durham & Teesside as well as Stagecoach in Teesside....the latter also having bases in Newcastle, South Tyneside and Sunderland to assist operations where needed.

- Lower vehicle lifespans = not being used on suitable work which could cause problems down the line when cascading to 'easier' routes.

- No mutual operator acceptance on unique parts of X10 & X21 not on shared corridors with other GNE roures.

- Maximum flexibility at Derwentside despite having inefficient interworking patterns.

- Inefficiencies = Several remote reliefs in Stanley and inefficient interworking patterns & driving hours.

- Overlapping buses Sunniside to Newcastle (X31 / X70) within a minute of each other.


If GNE made Derwentside changes allowing E400MMC allocation on X10 & X21:
- Further scope to improve services if suitable contingency & spares can be sourced (i.e X9 re-introduction).

- Improved Stanley to Gateshead links. Stanley to Whickham would still have the X30 hourly and 6 half-hourly. Stanley to Dunston link did not exist in express form until 2015 due to merger of X30 and 98.

- Improved timekeeping and fewer breakdowns = improved passenger confidence and better fleet utilisation with all E400MMC's (bar 4x remaining at Consett for X30/X71 and 2x low height spares) getting mixed use on X10 & X21, spreading demands.

- Reduced risk of competition = better security & reputation of company and less risk of loss of income.

- Improved vehicle lifespans = Mixed use of E400MMC on X10 & X21. StreetDeck and B5TL whilst not perfect should handle Derwentside work okay(ish) considering StreetLites were previously used on 45/46/47.

- Improved support for breakdowns on StreetDecks & B5TL = many shared corridors on Derwentside routes (45/47 and 10/10A/10B), X70/X71, X70/X73, X30/X32, X30/X32/X70/X71). Depots in close vicinity for support (Riverside & Consett).

- Reduction in vehicle standard on X20 to allow B5TLs to move to Consett = short term issue but could be resolved with some non-leggy Cobalt & Coast B9TLs if current Angel StreetDecks end up on 307 & 309.

- Cleaner headway Sunniside to Newcastle.

- Slightly slower journey times on X70 = passengers still grateful for restored service and X71 & X73 available on some parts of the X70 if an issue.

- More efficient and still reliable interworking pattens on Derwentside (all falling within 4hr or 4hr30m cycles) and all Mon - Sat reliefs do-able in Consett.

(18 Jan 2025, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers.

Backwards step and waste of money.
Pay to put a ramp at the front, sure. No need to convert them to single door though.

(18 Jan 2025, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers as, although they should only be used on scholars, GNE uses too many dual doorway buses on normal service.

Surely they should have been converted to single door when they initially arrived, rather than being utilised on normal service work to the detriment of disabled passengers?

Seems interesting that they started to convert them after the prominent use of them on front line service work was noted in several places. Almost like GNE were doing the bare minimum until being called out for it, similar to the current engineering debacle.

It's been a downward spiral for years. 

I genuinely don't get why people seem so surprised. 
The fleet has been getting smaller, the routes have been getting more and more consolidated - yet they seem surprised that profits are down. 

Go back to the posts I made 10 years ago when I was saying this would happen. 

Blaming MG, titivations or covid is too easy. 
Cutting costs but expecting profits and growth was naive and short sighted.

(18 Jan 2025, 10:56 pm)lewisparker1509 wrote this i 100% agree with! arriva were once well worse off than GNE and they've managed to turn that around nicely and sucessfully. they need to take a leaf out the arriva handbook!

By getting rid of Nigel….

(18 Jan 2025, 9:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote It's been a downward spiral for years. 

I genuinely don't get why people seem so surprised. 
The fleet has been getting smaller, the routes have been getting more and more consolidated - yet they seem surprised that profits are down. 

Go back to the posts I made 10 years ago when I was saying this would happen. 

Blaming MG, titivations or covid is too easy. 
Cutting costs but expecting profits and growth was naive and short sighted.

Not sure that is just a GNE phenomenon to be fair, continually reducing fleet sizes and consolidation of routes has plagued the industry for decades now.

(18 Jan 2025, 11:43 am)Michael wrote Wonder how many 2nd hand buses, GNE will get this year................


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6965 has now entered service, according to the edit on, Bustimes, its the last of the batch to enter service.

Are any of these conversions going to be re numbered or are they keeping their 69** numbers?

(19 Jan 2025, 3:42 pm)lewisparker1509 wrote i'd assume they'd keep the 69**. The Durham Diamonds are 62** because they're a different generation E400.

They were going to renumber the Single door conversion E400 to 62**  but are leaving them 69**

Saw E200MMC 5495 being towed away from Hownsgill this afternoon by Alpha - preseumably some major repairs required as its bern off the road since Nov. ?
Also around the same time Streetlite 5525 was heading down the bypass at Consett towards Hownsgill.

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(19 Jan 2025, 6:59 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Saw E200MMC 5495 being towed away from Hownsgill this afternoon by Alpha - preseumably some major repairs required as its bern off the road since Nov. ?
Also around the same time Streetlite 5525 was heading down the bypass at Consett towards Hownsgill.

5525 on the 78 today, along with 8341. 

8321 & 8322 on Xlines Duty.

Further to the 21 issues and a certain school not far from its route issuing comms so that parents contact GNE directly - I saw a message today to say the 874 had broken down from Kibblesworth.

A replacement was being sent.

(20 Jan 2025, 2:23 pm)WestDurhamSwift wrote

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5525 on the 78 today, along with 8341. 

8321 & 8322 on Xlines Duty.

And to add to Hownsgill issues, an E400 diamond has had a bump with a car on the A167/691 roundabout tonight with enough force to turn the car 180 degrees.was dark as i passed so couldnt see how much damage there was.

6237 by the looks of it on the X15. Got to the roundabout at 17:28 and left at 18:23 and ran its route to Consett and finished there 50 minutes late so it can't have been that bad.

Look North reporting on it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9eyzq925yo

(24 Jan 2025, 8:39 am)Chris 1 wrote Look North reporting on it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9eyzq925yo

Ultimately, what this points to is a lack of trust between those on the ground and senior management. Engineering grumbles are not uncommon in the transport industry, but are usually resolved before any escalation

There are obviously staff that feel like they are not listened to or not taken seriously by those above, otherwise they wouldn't be speaking to the BBC

(24 Jan 2025, 8:39 am)Chris 1 wrote Look North reporting on it:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz9eyzq925yo

Journo Jim seems to have changed his tune. 
It seemed to be constant love-in/fan boy moments not too long ago.

(24 Jan 2025, 9:34 am)DeltaMan wrote Ultimately, what this points to is a lack of trust between those on the ground and senior management. Engineering grumbles are not uncommon in the transport industry, but are usually resolved before any escalation

There are obviously staff that feel like they are not listened to or not taken seriously by those above, otherwise they wouldn't be speaking to the BBC

It's absolutely embarrassing for Go North East, and it just shows once again that the company is ran by children.

You're 100% right. Grumbles exist in every workplace, but they seldom make their way into the press. This stinks of a workforce that feels they're not, nor will be listened to, so they've made a drastic move to try and force management's hand.

To be honest, even as passengers, we've all seen dashboards lit up like Christmas trees. Or drivers to radio in with a fault, only be told to restart the bus and carry on.

It'll be interesting to see how Go North East management respond to this internally. I'd like to think they'd draw a line under it and completely revise how they handle engineering and defects in general, but I'd hazard a guess they'd be more interested in going after who they think may have spoken to the press, being the children that they are.

(24 Jan 2025, 9:34 am)DeltaMan wrote Ultimately, what this points to is a lack of trust between those on the ground and senior management. Engineering grumbles are not uncommon in the transport industry, but are usually resolved before any escalation

There are obviously staff that feel like they are not listened to or not taken seriously by those above, otherwise they wouldn't be speaking to the BBC

Ye, want to bet, all the buses will "fixed" properly now.


I liked how the BBC, said "When the BBC visited a depot in Gateshead, several buses appeared to be in need of repair"


I'm honestly glad, I rarely use GNE these days.


Still find it a joke, they've refurbished 15 year old buses so they look newer, its about time Go Ahead did something but they won't, the NE is the company dumping ground, and I bet they won't be investing anytime soon either (Not including the electrics as that's from Government funding).

(24 Jan 2025, 11:05 am)Adrian wrote It's absolutely embarrassing for Go North East, and it just shows once again that the company is ran by children.

You're 100% right. Grumbles exist in every workplace, but they seldom make their way into the press. This stinks of a workforce that feels they're not, nor will be listened to, so they've made a drastic move to try and force management's hand.

To be honest, even as passengers, we've all seen dashboards lit up like Christmas trees. Or drivers to radio in with a fault, only be told to restart the bus and carry on.

It'll be interesting to see how Go North East management respond to this internally. I'd like to think they'd draw a line under it and completely revise how they handle engineering and defects in general, but I'd hazard a guess they'd be more interested in going after who they think may have spoken to the press, being the children that they are.

I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

(24 Jan 2025, 11:12 am)Dan wrote I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

Oh god, why were they suspended?

Let me guess....... because they told management what they thought?

(24 Jan 2025, 11:12 am)Dan wrote I understand there is currently a consultative ballot in place (voting closes at midday today) for formal industrial action - it follows three senior Unite representatives being suspended.

Incredible. Is this their idea of improved industrial relations, which they spoke about post-strike? 

I suppose looking at the positives, at least if their workforce is out on strike, they won't have to worry about being short of buses.

Calling them children is an insult to children.

How bad does it have to get to have your o-license revoked. Is it a possiblity for GNE

Can't comment on the union stuff but this imo isn't a local issue and a GoAhead issue.

As much as people want to slag off the local managers, I'm not sure it's their choice to get arid of half the workforce - this is being told by someone further above and the fact things have got much much worse since the takeover would suggest where the problems are coming from.

Similar with the investment choices, GNE won't be actively wanting to keep old buses, they're being forced pretty much.

Not to mention the fact the local management haven't been removed would suggest they're doing a 'good job'. Personally I think it's time we need to start looking further up the chain and in reality whoever you put in charge of GoNorthEast would have the same issues and it's purely down to lack of investment. There's probably a reason why Gilbert bolted at the time he did.