(Yesterday, 11:48 am)Storx wrote I still can't believe they've converted 15 year old buses from dual door to single door. Talk about wasting money, they're pretty much life expired before they've even entered service.

Even Arriva isn't desperate enough to do that, believe 10 year old was the oldest they've done which is really the limit imo for sense.

Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers as, although they should only be used on scholars, GNE uses too many dual doorway buses on normal service.

It's the newest dual doors (60 plate) that they have converted as well - clearly expecting to get another three or so so years out of them. 
Plenty of older buses to withdraw first!

There were two Berries Versas in service yesterday, I didn't realise there was even 2 left in service.

(Yesterday, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers as, although they should only be used on scholars, GNE uses too many dual doorway buses on normal service.

It's the newest dual doors (60 plate) that they have converted as well - clearly expecting to get another three or so so years out of them. 
Plenty of older buses to withdraw first!

Just shows the sad state of the fleet to me that the answer is 15 year old vehicles doing frontline work due to complete lack of investment. The fleet is getting on all over the place and it's not just rump routes that are affected nowadays either. The likes of the 10 etc are really overdue something new(er) but as far as I'm aware there's nothing planned with those vehicles going onto the likes of the X5/X15 with those vehicles being the school buses rather than spending money converting dual door vehicles from London which are well past their best.

I'd even say do something like Arriva did by spending money on new buses on a more profitable area and displace their buses up North like at Durham so everyone wins if the state of the North East is that bad they don't want to directly spend money on it.

(Yesterday, 1:12 pm)deanmachine wrote There were two Berries Versas in service yesterday, I didn't realise there was even 2 left in service.

Ye, so much for them to be going when the streetlites entered service... both are in service again too.

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(Yesterday, 1:18 pm)Storx wrote Just shows the sad state of the fleet to me that the answer is 15 year old vehicles doing frontline work due to complete lack of investment. The fleet is getting on all over the place and it's not just rump routes that are affected nowadays either. The likes of the 10 etc are really overdue something new(er) but as far as I'm aware there's nothing planned with those vehicles going onto the likes of the X5/X15 with those vehicles being the school buses rather than spending money converting dual door vehicles from London which are well past their best.

I'd even say do something like Arriva did by spending money on new buses on a more profitable area and displace their buses up North like at Durham so everyone wins if the state of the North East is that bad they don't want to directly spend money on it.

Sure the last BIG investment was the E200/400MMC's/Streetdecks for the 97 and X-Lines.


Sad really, company is falling apart atm, needs investment soon, the buses which we're ordered in 2013? (B9's for the 56 etc, Citaro's for the 4 etc) are all now midlife and will need replacing soon, which was around 100 buses?



Edit: Hopefully some of them are replaced when the electrics arrive for the 21 and 58........ when ever they'll arrive............... wouldn't mind seeing the Streetdecks on the 56.

(Yesterday, 1:24 pm)Michael wrote Ye, so much for them to be going when the streetlites entered service... both are in service again too.

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Sure the last BIG investment was the E200/400MMC's/Streetdecks for the 97 and X-Lines.


Sad really, company is falling apart atm, needs investment soon, the buses which we're ordered in 2013? (B9's for the 56 etc, Citaro's for the 4 etc) are all now midlife and will need replacing soon, which was around 100 buses?



Edit: Hopefully some of them are replaced when the electrics arrive for the 21 and 58........ when ever they'll arrive............... wouldn't mind seeing the Streetdecks on the 56.

Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

(Yesterday, 2:50 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

They need to make a decision, do they want to go full electric, and invest in making their depots run electric fleets, or do they buy more new diesels.

One can only hope when contract time comes for Franchising that Kim and co take into account GNEs utter incompetence

Tho in reality a more successful and competent operator like metro line will probably take the contracts, maybe even stagecoach, GNE is a dead husk walking

(Yesterday, 6:04 pm)deanmachine wrote They need to make a decision, do they want to go full electric, and invest in making their depots run electric fleets, or do they buy more new diesels.

Aye agreed. The only way I can see any form of fleet renewal otherwise would be to just spend a fortune on places like Oxford and Brighton and just send their 'newer' Diesels to places like the North East. 

Not ideal for up here though but would scrape them through to 2028 or whenever the franchising starts

(Yesterday, 2:50 pm)Storx wrote Yeah it was bar the two Yutong orders. There's been nothing at all otherwise. 

I wouldn't say the B9's are midlife personally though. More nearing end of life, the Angel Streetdecks are more midlife really.

There's tonnes of buses nearing replacement though. Like these 'new' E400's are pretty much end of the life and they're no-where near the oldest buses in the fleet either. Singles are alright age wise generally but the Decker's are a mess and they're not on schools either. 

It'll be interesting to see what GoAhead do tbh as the North East isn't the only place with aging deckers and the London displacements won't be around forever since the hybrids are useless.

Still doesn't help that GNE's most capable modern deckers (E400MMC) aren't being used on the X10 & X21 (GNE's longest services) whilst they're p*****g more money up the wall on remote reliefs in Stanley, complete opposite to the last management who in their credit at the time had a good interworking pattern.

There's also the business risk to consider too:

Current situation risks & benefits on the X10 / X21 and Derwentside:
- Poor timekeeping & breakdowns = underpowered vehicles or lack of suitable spares.

- Lack of passenger confidence = passengers might look at alternative forms of transport.

- High recovery costs = long distances to M.Boro and W.Auckland.

- Risk of competition = Arriva depots in Durham & Teesside as well as Stagecoach in Teesside....the latter also having bases in Newcastle, South Tyneside and Sunderland to assist operations where needed.

- Lower vehicle lifespans = not being used on suitable work which could cause problems down the line when cascading to 'easier' routes.

- No mutual operator acceptance on unique parts of X10 & X21 not on shared corridors with other GNE roures.

- Maximum flexibility at Derwentside despite having inefficient interworking patterns.

- Inefficiencies = Several remote reliefs in Stanley and inefficient interworking patterns & driving hours.

- Overlapping buses Sunniside to Newcastle (X31 / X70) within a minute of each other.


If GNE made Derwentside changes allowing E400MMC allocation on X10 & X21:
- Further scope to improve services if suitable contingency & spares can be sourced (i.e X9 re-introduction).

- Improved Stanley to Gateshead links. Stanley to Whickham would still have the X30 hourly and 6 half-hourly. Stanley to Dunston link did not exist in express form until 2015 due to merger of X30 and 98.

- Improved timekeeping and fewer breakdowns = improved passenger confidence and better fleet utilisation with all E400MMC's (bar 4x remaining at Consett for X30/X71 and 2x low height spares) getting mixed use on X10 & X21, spreading demands.

- Reduced risk of competition = better security & reputation of company and less risk of loss of income.

- Improved vehicle lifespans = Mixed use of E400MMC on X10 & X21. StreetDeck and B5TL whilst not perfect should handle Derwentside work okay(ish) considering StreetLites were previously used on 45/46/47.

- Improved support for breakdowns on StreetDecks & B5TL = many shared corridors on Derwentside routes (45/47 and 10/10A/10B), X70/X71, X70/X73, X30/X32, X30/X32/X70/X71). Depots in close vicinity for support (Riverside & Consett).

- Reduction in vehicle standard on X20 to allow B5TLs to move to Consett = short term issue but could be resolved with some non-leggy Cobalt & Coast B9TLs if current Angel StreetDecks end up on 307 & 309.

- Cleaner headway Sunniside to Newcastle.

- Slightly slower journey times on X70 = passengers still grateful for restored service and X71 & X73 available on some parts of the X70 if an issue.

- More efficient and still reliable interworking pattens on Derwentside (all falling within 4hr or 4hr30m cycles) and all Mon - Sat reliefs do-able in Consett.

(Yesterday, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers.

Backwards step and waste of money.
Pay to put a ramp at the front, sure. No need to convert them to single door though.

(Yesterday, 11:56 am)busmanT wrote Why not convert them to single doorway? 
Better for the passengers and drivers as, although they should only be used on scholars, GNE uses too many dual doorway buses on normal service.

Surely they should have been converted to single door when they initially arrived, rather than being utilised on normal service work to the detriment of disabled passengers?

Seems interesting that they started to convert them after the prominent use of them on front line service work was noted in several places. Almost like GNE were doing the bare minimum until being called out for it, similar to the current engineering debacle.

It's been a downward spiral for years. 

I genuinely don't get why people seem so surprised. 
The fleet has been getting smaller, the routes have been getting more and more consolidated - yet they seem surprised that profits are down. 

Go back to the posts I made 10 years ago when I was saying this would happen. 

Blaming MG, titivations or covid is too easy. 
Cutting costs but expecting profits and growth was naive and short sighted.

(Yesterday, 1:18 pm)Storx wrote Just shows the sad state of the fleet to me that the answer is 15 year old vehicles doing frontline work due to complete lack of investment. The fleet is getting on all over the place and it's not just rump routes that are affected nowadays either. The likes of the 10 etc are really overdue something new(er) but as far as I'm aware there's nothing planned with those vehicles going onto the likes of the X5/X15 with those vehicles being the school buses rather than spending money converting dual door vehicles from London which are well past their best.

I'd even say do something like Arriva did by spending money on new buses on a more profitable area and displace their buses up North like at Durham so everyone wins if the state of the North East is that bad they don't want to directly spend money on it.

this i 100% agree with! arriva were once well worse off than GNE and they've managed to turn that around nicely and sucessfully. they need to take a leaf out the arriva handbook!

(Yesterday, 10:56 pm)lewisparker1509 wrote this i 100% agree with! arriva were once well worse off than GNE and they've managed to turn that around nicely and sucessfully. they need to take a leaf out the arriva handbook!

By getting rid of Nigel….

(Yesterday, 9:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote It's been a downward spiral for years. 

I genuinely don't get why people seem so surprised. 
The fleet has been getting smaller, the routes have been getting more and more consolidated - yet they seem surprised that profits are down. 

Go back to the posts I made 10 years ago when I was saying this would happen. 

Blaming MG, titivations or covid is too easy. 
Cutting costs but expecting profits and growth was naive and short sighted.

Not sure that is just a GNE phenomenon to be fair, continually reducing fleet sizes and consolidation of routes has plagued the industry for decades now.

(Yesterday, 11:24 pm)Ambassador wrote By getting rid of Nigel….

you're right! i completely forgot he used to run arriva. he needs to p*ss off and ruin another companies reputation, preferrably not in the NE.

(Yesterday, 11:43 am)Michael wrote Wonder how many 2nd hand buses, GNE will get this year................


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6965 has now entered service, according to the edit on, Bustimes, its the last of the batch to enter service.

Are any of these conversions going to be re numbered or are they keeping their 69** numbers?

(6 hours ago)ian foster wrote Are any of these conversions going to be re numbered or are they keeping their 69** numbers?

i'd assume they'd keep the 69**. The Durham Diamonds are 62** because they're a different generation E400.

(6 hours ago)lewisparker1509 wrote i'd assume they'd keep the 69**. The Durham Diamonds are 62** because they're a different generation E400.

They were going to renumber the Single door conversion E400 to 62**  but are leaving them 69**

Saw E200MMC 5495 being towed away from Hownsgill this afternoon by Alpha - preseumably some major repairs required as its bern off the road since Nov. ?
Also around the same time Streetlite 5525 was heading down the bypass at Consett towards Hownsgill.