https://new.newcastle.gov.uk/news/2025/p...bus-routes

Split into 4 plans, I can only see the road plan for East End.

- New Bridge street bus stop near Manors moved further back from crossing, with the removal of the on street parking to ensure the bus lane functions. 
- Bus lane extended from Byker bridge to Byker roundabout, removal of a crossing there to widen the road allowing it to go the run length, with a Pelacan crossing added. 
- Shields Road Morrisons road-about removed and replaced with traffic lights, with the existing pelican crossing slightly further up removed.

All makes sense, however removing that roundabout near Morrisons seems a bold move.

(30 Jan 2025, 5:35 pm)WestDurhamSwift wrote https://new.newcastle.gov.uk/news/2025/p...bus-routes

Split into 4 plans, I can only see the road plan for East End.

- New Bridge street bus stop near Manors moved further back from crossing, with the removal of the on street parking to ensure the bus lane functions. 
- Bus lane extended from Byker bridge to Byker roundabout, removal of a crossing there to widen the road allowing it to go the run length, with a Pelacan crossing added. 
- Shields Road Morrisons road-about removed and replaced with traffic lights, with the existing pelican crossing slightly further up removed.

All makes sense, however removing that roundabout near Morrisons seems a bold move.

Personally bar the slightly extended bus lane near the Motorway I don't understand how or where these are improving buses. If this was a fund for pedestrian and cycle safety then I'd understand but it's not, it's about improving bus journey times.

I can think of a million other places where money would be better spent ie. Shields Road, can we ban cars? Chillingham Road, can we improve traffic flows? where buses lose a lot of time in the same area.

(30 Jan 2025, 6:03 pm)Storx wrote Personally bar the slightly extended bus lane near the Motorway I don't understand how or where these are improving buses. If this was a fund for pedestrian and cycle safety then I'd understand but it's not, it's about improving bus journey times.

I can think of a million other places where money would be better spent ie. Shields Road, can we ban cars? Chillingham Road, can we improve traffic flows? where buses lose a lot of time in the same area.

I looked into Byker Bypass as a school study, and interestingly it was built with the propasal that shields road would be 

A. Pedestrianised 
or 
B. Bus only 

Neither of which happened.

(30 Jan 2025, 7:40 pm)WestDurhamSwift wrote I looked into Byker Bypass as a school study, and interestingly it was built with the propasal that shields road would be 

A. Pedestrianised 
or 
B. Bus only 

Neither of which happened.

I'm surprised they haven't tbh. It would be one of the easiest things to do and would massively boost buses. The road is a slog at the best of times. I used to live at Heaton and you'd be happy once you hit Morrison's as you knew the 62/63 would be pretty much non stop from there and they're upgrading that bit..?

Chillingham Road is desperate for stuff especially Northbound from the Metro bridge upto the lights, would make a massive different for the 62/63 and it's not really hard to do either as the road there is three lanes with a hatched centre anyway for most of it.

Obviously ideally you'd have more bus lanes further North but that would be more complex, but it's easily doable especially Southbound which is also a slog if you removed the parking.

(30 Jan 2025, 8:09 pm)Storx wrote I'm surprised they haven't tbh. It would be one of the easiest things to do and would massively boost buses. The road is a slog at the best of times. I used to live at Heaton and you'd be happy once you hit Morrison's as you knew the 62/63 would be pretty much non stop from there and they're upgrading that bit..?

Chillingham Road is desperate for stuff especially Northbound from the Metro bridge upto the lights, would make a massive different for the 62/63 and it's not really hard to do either as the road there is three lanes with a hatched centre anyway for most of it.

Obviously ideally you'd have more bus lanes further North but that would be more complex, but it's easily doable especially Southbound which is also a slog if you removed the parking.

Fully agree. 

The lack of overall investment is there for all to see. 

Agree with Chillingham road, very busy these days, would benefit from some sort of incentive.

(30 Jan 2025, 10:01 pm)WestDurhamSwift wrote Fully agree. 

The lack of overall investment is there for all to see. 

Agree with Chillingham road, very busy these days, would benefit from some sort of incentive.

Aye, mind I have a feeling it might be political aswell. Closing a road for buses will just get the idiots out again who think it's some sort of conspiracy for 15 minute cities or whatever nonsense is being peddled this week.

Just have to look at some of the other schemes which were minor compared to them for the faux outrage.

(30 Jan 2025, 6:03 pm)Storx wrote Personally bar the slightly extended bus lane near the Motorway I don't understand how or where these are improving buses. If this was a fund for pedestrian and cycle safety then I'd understand but it's not, it's about improving bus journey times.

I can think of a million other places where money would be better spent ie. Shields Road, can we ban cars? Chillingham Road, can we improve traffic flows? where buses lose a lot of time in the same area.

Argyle Street bus stop is being moved back because it's too close to the junction, and buses often have to double-park in or around the stop once they've reached it when the lights turn green and the traffic blocking the stop has moved (and then have to wait for the lights to turn green again when they're moving off). This improves passenger safety, accessibility and journey times. The extension of the bus lane to here and removal of parking spaces also reduces journey times and the awkward merge point.

The bus lane extension to the Shields Road roundabout will speed journeys up by around 2 minutes at the worst of the peak, as the entrance is usually (infuriatingly) blocked by traffic which gets backed up to the roundabout.

The reorganisation of pedestrian crossings and the signalisation of the roundabout adjacent to Morrisons will speed up journey times when bus priority signalling is introduced, and means that the bus lane from Byker Bridge to Morrisons benefit from priority over other vehicles. This reduces journey times, and with the improvements in pedestrian crossings from the bus stops to Morrisons also reduces congestion caused by passengers crossing over everywhere to and from the stops.

We have discussion elsewhere on the forum where people criticise councils for not liaising with drivers/operators where bottlenecks occur, yet here is an example of BSIP funds being used to iron out imperfections that impede bus priorities, improve safety and accessibility for passengers and improve journey times between Byker and Newcastle by 3-4 minutes at peak times with relatively small adjustments. I used to drive buses along this corridor multiple times a week and welcome the improvements this scheme will bring, and commend Newcastle City Council for paying attention to something as small as this - especially when it's a small scheme that impacts barely anybody negatively but brings a true benefit. 

The pedestrianisation or bus lane-ification of Shields Road would be an expensive way (because other social value and local realm improvements would have to be undertaken) to bring around similar improvements in journey times, so your point of BSIP funds hits even more so here.

(31 Jan 2025, 9:56 am)omnicity4659 wrote Argyle Street bus stop is being moved back because it's too close to the junction, and buses often have to double-park in or around the stop once they've reached it when the lights turn green and the traffic blocking the stop has moved (and then have to wait for the lights to turn green again when they're moving off). This improves passenger safety, accessibility and journey times. The extension of the bus lane to here and removal of parking spaces also reduces journey times and the awkward merge point.

The bus lane extension to the Shields Road roundabout will speed journeys up by around 2 minutes at the worst of the peak, as the entrance is usually (infuriatingly) blocked by traffic which gets backed up to the roundabout.

The reorganisation of pedestrian crossings and the signalisation of the roundabout adjacent to Morrisons will speed up journey times when bus priority signalling is introduced, and means that the bus lane from Byker Bridge to Morrisons benefit from priority over other vehicles. This reduces journey times, and with the improvements in pedestrian crossings from the bus stops to Morrisons also reduces congestion caused by passengers crossing over everywhere to and from the stops.

We have discussion elsewhere on the forum where people criticise councils for not liaising with drivers/operators where bottlenecks occur, yet here is an example of BSIP funds being used to iron out imperfections that impede bus priorities, improve safety and accessibility for passengers and improve journey times between Byker and Newcastle by 3-4 minutes at peak times with relatively small adjustments. I used to drive buses along this corridor multiple times a week and welcome the improvements this scheme will bring, and commend Newcastle City Council for paying attention to something as small as this - especially when it's a small scheme that impacts barely anybody negatively but brings a true benefit. 

The pedestrianisation or bus lane-ification of Shields Road would be an expensive way (because other social value and local realm improvements would have to be undertaken) to bring around similar improvements in journey times, so your point of BSIP funds hits even more so here.

Some fair points, it was an open question in a way but I've nothing against spending money on infrastructure improvements. I'd rather see it than spending on useless bus services.

On the Shields Road though, you get other benefits such as a nicer place for pedestrians which would help Byker itself. It's worthwhile spend imo.

Similar for this short bus lane, I'd much rather see something like this:


It'd cost a little bit more, but it'll give bigger improvements a real shortcut for buses since the roundabout near KFC can be a nightmare to get out aswell with the new pedestrian crossing not impacting buses at all.

We keep doing things on the cheap and long term it just costs more.

(31 Jan 2025, 10:22 am)Storx wrote Some fair points, it was an open question in a way but I've nothing against spending money on infrastructure improvements. I'd rather see it than spending on useless bus services.

On the Shields Road though, you get other benefits such as a nicer place for pedestrians which would help Byker itself. It's worthwhile spend imo.

Similar for this short bus lane, I'd much rather see something like this:


It'd cost a little bit more, but it'll give bigger improvements a real shortcut for buses since the roundabout near KFC can be a nightmare to get out aswell with the new pedestrian crossing not impacting buses at all.

We keep doing things on the cheap and long term it just costs more.

Whilst I agree with a two-way bus lane direct from Shields Road to Byker Bridge, with the volume of traffic both from Byker Bridge and the Bypass it would back congestion up the Bypass, blocking the roundabout (and then perhaps the junction at Morrisons) when allowing buses out of said bus lane.

Such a signalised junction would also slow down buses from Newcastle along the Byker Bridge, meaning that you're increasing journey times.

What would get car drivers out of their cars and on to the bus? 

I'd prefer the money being spent on attracting punters on to buses because they do the things people want them to do and take them to the places they need to be, than on priority measures.

(31 Jan 2025, 11:31 am)omnicity4659 wrote Whilst I agree with a two-way bus lane direct from Shields Road to Byker Bridge, with the volume of traffic both from Byker Bridge and the Bypass it would back congestion up the Bypass, blocking the roundabout (and then perhaps the junction at Morrisons) when allowing buses out of said bus lane.

Such a signalised junction would also slow down buses from Newcastle along the Byker Bridge, meaning that you're increasing journey times.

Guess it depends how the scheme was done though, if the ped crossing is red regularly then arguably it's just the same anyway. 

The whole area needs work ideally around there though including the other roundabout where buses struggle to get out as it's not the most safe thing around. 

The one at the other end of the bypass isn't great either. Obviously out the depth of BSIP of course mostly. 

The lights are Fossway need work as well while we're on a list around there tbh. 

It's a shame that the budget has appeared to have been cut to pennies and the money spent on crazy bus routes to nowhere or silly frequency upgrades on frequent corridors alternatively.

(31 Jan 2025, 12:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote What would get car drivers out of their cars and on to the bus? 

I'd prefer the money being spent on attracting punters on to buses because they do the things people want them to do and take them to the places they need to be, than on priority measures.

I agree. The network doesn't take people where they want to go which is a big issue, but frequency isn't good enough and people don't want to be waiting around at bus stops (often without shelters) in the cold and rain. Often when you do manage to get a bus, they're overcrowded and you end up standing uncomfortably rather than relaxed in a seat. Then there's the cost, which realistically isn't low enough to entice people out the car. I can within a 2 minute walk of Newcastle for the same cost as a return bus journey. In my own comfort, knowing I'll leave on time and no annoying school kids sitting around me. It's a no brainer for me at the moment, I'm taking the car.

(31 Jan 2025, 2:05 pm)Shrek wrote I agree. The network doesn't take people where they want to go which is a big issue, but frequency isn't good enough and people don't want to be waiting around at bus stops (often without shelters) in the cold and rain. Often when you do manage to get a bus, they're overcrowded and you end up standing uncomfortably rather than relaxed in a seat. Then there's the cost, which realistically isn't low enough to entice people out the car. I can within a 2 minute walk of Newcastle for the same cost as a return bus journey. In my own comfort, knowing I'll leave on time and no annoying school kids sitting around me. It's a no brainer for me at the moment, I'm taking the car.

Taking a number of cars off the road because the network is better, would be a heck of a lot more effective than a bus lane or two.

(31 Jan 2025, 12:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote What would get car drivers out of their cars and on to the bus? 

I'd prefer the money being spent on attracting punters on to buses because they do the things people want them to do and take them to the places they need to be, than on priority measures.

Personally I'd say decent bus priority would get more people off the road. If there's a traffic jam then the bus is very likely going in the direction where people are wanting to be.

If I was sitting in a car and watching buses bomb by while I had to wait for 15 minutes at some lights, it would be attractive. What wouldn't be attractive is following a bus for 15 minutes in the same traffic like the X7 at Matthew Bank then at Sandy Lane or the 306/308 at Corner House to just pick 2 routes.

The X7 at Sandy Lane is piss easy to fix aswell as they could open a bus gate coming from Peter Barratts.

(31 Jan 2025, 6:25 pm)Storx wrote Personally I'd say decent bus priority would get more people off the road. If there's a traffic jam then the bus is very likely going in the direction where people are wanting to be.

If I was sitting in a car and watching buses bomb by while I had to wait for 15 minutes at some lights, it would be attractive. What wouldn't be attractive is following a bus for 15 minutes in the same traffic like the X7 at Matthew Bank then at Sandy Lane or the 306/308 at Corner House to just pick 2 routes.

The X7 at Sandy Lane is piss easy to fix aswell as they could open a bus gate coming from Peter Barratts.

But if the buses went where you wanted them do, why would you be in the car?
Ditto a big chunk of the drivers sitting in front and behind you.

(31 Jan 2025, 9:09 pm)Andreos1 wrote But if the buses went where you wanted them do, why would you be in the car?
Ditto a big chunk of the drivers sitting in front and behind you.

Convenience etc, just much nicer being in a car than a bus really, even if they went everywhere you wanted to go they're still worse so imo they need something that's a +1 and that's traffic priority for me.

I don't disagree about buses going to right place of course, but where traffic management is good, right in the centre of Newcastle, Sunderland etc the vast majority of people at that point are likely heading towards Newcastle / Sunderland or at least some point you'd interchange to continue the journey. Bus lanes in Hastings Hill in Sunderland or Harlow Green in Gateshead are utterly pointless though as they don't save time vs a car.

(31 Jan 2025, 9:29 pm)Storx wrote Convenience etc, just much nicer being in a car than a bus really, even if they went everywhere you wanted to go they're still worse so imo they need something that's a +1 and that's traffic priority for me.

I don't disagree about buses going to right place of course, but where traffic management is good, right in the centre of Newcastle, Sunderland etc the vast majority of people at that point are likely heading towards Newcastle / Sunderland or at least some point you'd interchange to continue the journey. Bus lanes in Hastings Hill in Sunderland or Harlow Green in Gateshead are utterly pointless though as they don't save time vs a car.

Inconveniencing the car user in the hope it encourages a modal shift/makes buses look better is a bizarre methodology. 

I'm not sure it has ever worked either.

(31 Jan 2025, 11:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote Inconveniencing the car user in the hope it encourages a modal shift/makes buses look better is a bizarre methodology. 

I'm not sure it has ever worked either.

Depends how you build them though. I don't agree with slowing down cars but there's many places where we have roads which are 3 lane wide or numerous parking spaces which are serving businesses/hospitals miles away.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9801983,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - Like that's the sort of prime spot for one to boost the 1

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9933075,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here on Benfield Road - just remove the hatching

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9968005,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here, easily 3 lanes

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0392702,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here build a bus gate out

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9827197,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here on Chillingham Road

That's just 5 which are all massive bottlenecks. I don't agree with the old take a lane, make car journeys longer and punish them approach though but that's usually reserved for bikes anyway.

(31 Jan 2025, 11:39 pm)Storx wrote Depends how you build them though. I don't agree with slowing down cars but there's many places where we have roads which are 3 lane wide or numerous parking spaces which are serving businesses/hospitals miles away.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9801983,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - Like that's the sort of prime spot for one to boost the 1

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9933075,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here on Benfield Road - just remove the hatching

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9968005,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here, easily 3 lanes

https://www.google.com/maps/@55.0392702,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here build a bus gate out

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.9827197,...?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDEyOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D - or here on Chillingham Road

That's just 5 which are all massive bottlenecks. I don't agree with the old take a lane, make car journeys longer and punish them approach though but that's usually reserved for bikes anyway.

Just as a point of reference, I learned to drive just shy of 30 years ago. 
The reason: per mile it was cheaper than taking the bus longer term, once I was no longer eligible for my Teen Travel ticket 
It also offered me flexibility. I could go where I wanted, when I wanted. Both in the short term and longer term. 

Where I lived, there was a direct bus to college and I could get a bus to work too.

Fast forward 30 years later and despite not living there and the parents having moved a long time ago, I look at the services there and they're pretty much the same, other than some slight tweaks to the numbering and routes. 
The Newcastle link has gone unfortunately. 

Despite all the bus priorities that have appeared since, if I was to move back there, I'd not be using the bus. 
It's still cheaper per mile in the car and the network hasn't adapted for what I currently need. 

If I look back to the houses I've lived in since I moved out and the network around them, all I can see is a reduced number of destinations and services with the GNE network. 
I spent a short period of time living in ANE land 20 odd years ago and other than renumbering and tidying, the routes which passed the end of the street are as is. 

My current house is in ANE land and it's slowly deteriorating in that the two routes are timed to follow each other and take an age to get anywhere. 
That's partly because of the location. Partly because the routes are now longer and slower. 

The issue isn't the car. 
The issue is the bus not being attractive and not doing what people need or want. 
No amount of bus priority will change that. 

If I was needing to head along Shields Road and bus priority got in the way, slowed me down or caused an inconvenience, I'd not switch to the bus. 
I'd simply look for an alternative route.

I Was In Newcastle yesterday, I could have got the bus or the train, but instead i Drove, going I went along the Fellingbypass, but I know when I would come back the traffic over the tyne bridge would be horrendous, not once did I think oh next time ill get the bus or the train, I thought oh ill just go on the A167 join the A1, come off at Team Valley take a short cut miss all the traffic and join just at the bottom of Team Valley (before A1231 junction) saved me quite a bit of time.

The only reason I would now use the bus to go to Newcastle is if it was direct and very frequent. Not every every 30 mins is good enough imo now. Especially with the reliability as you'll be waiting an hour if one doesnt come

(01 Feb 2025, 11:26 am)Andreos1 wrote Just as a point of reference, I learned to drive just shy of 30 years ago. 
The reason: per mile it was cheaper than taking the bus longer term, once I was no longer eligible for my Teen Travel ticket 
It also offered me flexibility. I could go where I wanted, when I wanted. Both in the short term and longer term. 

Where I lived, there was a direct bus to college and I could get a bus to work too.

Fast forward 30 years later and despite not living there and the parents having moved a long time ago, I look at the services there and they're pretty much the same, other than some slight tweaks to the numbering and routes. 
The Newcastle link has gone unfortunately. 

Despite all the bus priorities that have appeared since, if I was to move back there, I'd not be using the bus. 
It's still cheaper per mile in the car and the network hasn't adapted for what I currently need. 

If I look back to the houses I've lived in since I moved out and the network around them, all I can see is a reduced number of destinations and services with the GNE network. 
I spent a short period of time living in ANE land 20 odd years ago and other than renumbering and tidying, the routes which passed the end of the street are as is. 

My current house is in ANE land and it's slowly deteriorating in that the two routes are timed to follow each other and take an age to get anywhere. 
That's partly because of the location. Partly because the routes are now longer and slower. 

The issue isn't the car. 
The issue is the bus not being attractive and not doing what people need or want. 
No amount of bus priority will change that. 

If I was needing to head along Shields Road and bus priority got in the way, slowed me down or caused an inconvenience, I'd not switch to the bus. 
I'd simply look for an alternative route.

Yeah that's some fair points, see I don't actually agree with putting jackhammer on cars but arguably they shouldn't be where some of them are like personally North of the Tyne I'd be looking at a major network that works something like this:


Which is designed for cars to be using the red roads to get around the bus priority and punishments are in the purple areas. Yes, cars would have travel a little bit further in some cases but if you designed the roads well then it'd be quicker anyway. The big problem is the car routes are an absolute shambles with serious bottlenecks on the all X's which then results in people rat running through the likes of Gosforth.

If you had a network like that and everyone hypothetically was driving from further out the way suburbs would it really be an issue? The bigger problem imo is people in the likes of the Great Park driving into Newcastle via Gosforth punishing everyone when there's no excuse for it. imo there's absolutely no reason why anyone needs to drive on the purple corridors, providing the red routes were free flowing and well ran.

Low Fell is much of the same really and similar for the likes of Shields Road etc.

(01 Feb 2025, 11:43 am)Storx wrote Yeah that's some fair points, see I don't actually agree with putting jackhammer on cars but arguably they shouldn't be where some of them are like personally North of the Tyne I'd be looking at a major network that works something like this:


Which is designed for cars to be using the red roads to get around the bus priority and punishments are in the purple areas. Yes, cars would have travel a little bit further in some cases but if you designed the roads well then it'd be quicker anyway. The big problem is the car routes are an absolute shambles with serious bottlenecks on the all X's which then results in people rat running through the likes of Gosforth.

If you had a network like that and everyone hypothetically was driving from further out the way suburbs would it really be an issue? The bigger problem imo is people in the likes of the Great Park driving into Newcastle via Gosforth punishing everyone when there's no excuse for it. imo there's absolutely no reason why anyone needs to drive on the purple corridors, providing the red routes were free flowing and well ran.

Low Fell is much of the same really and similar for the likes of Shields Road etc.

Why would cars go the long way round to get to a central point? 
I'd argue the majority probably won't bother and would find something or somewhere else to go.

To go back to my point about bus lanes not working, I'd love someone to be able to answer and provide evidence that:
A) passenger numbers increase as a result of priority measures being introduced (correlation between them being introduced in the early 90s in Gateshead vs declining passenger numbers would prove otherwise). 
B) journeys are now quicker as a result (again, purely anecdotal evidence would say otherwise - check out timetables in the bygone section vs current timetables).
C) There's a return on investment for the LA funding the changes.
D) Car usage is decreasing because of the inconvenience.

(01 Feb 2025, 11:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote Why would cars go the long way round to get to a central point? 
I'd argue the majority probably won't bother and would find something or somewhere else to go.

To go back to my point about bus lanes not working, I'd love someone to be able to answer and provide evidence that:
A) passenger numbers increase as a result of priority measures being introduced (correlation between them being introduced in the early 90s in Gateshead vs declining passenger numbers would prove otherwise). 
B) journeys are now quicker as a result (again, purely anecdotal evidence would say otherwise - check out timetables in the bygone section vs current timetables).
C) There's a return on investment for the LA funding the changes.
D) Car usage is decreasing because of the inconvenience.

(Edited) Personally I wouldn't look at our area for bus lanes as the vast majority of them are short and have no use or are in the complete wrong place ie around the angel so it's not a good place to look at. Personally I'd be looking at places like Brighton where there's a full network of them joined up and well connected and it works.

Another example would be the Glider services in Belfast which have shown 7-8% modal shift which is a fair bit (https://www.route-one.net/features/how-b...t-success/).

Cars should not be using Gosforth High Street, Low Fell, West Road etc to get into Newcastle and should be mostly car free bar very local journeys and there's no reason why we couldn't have a similar system to above in terms of the bus priority, whether you wanted to go the full hog then that's your choice but they'd be successful on those corridors. It's not as if there's no bypasses for most of them anyway.

It's no longer to travel to Newcastle via Cowgate, if there was no traffic btw, since Gosforth is slow and that route is mostly 40mph+ but the 15 minute queue at Cowgate changes that. That's where the priority should be and it should even be BSIP funded with the caveat of reducing traffic in Gosforth where it really matters then you could look at things like the Glider in Belfast or whatever you fancied. The routes are already there 43/44/45/extra one to Great Park? The 21 from CLS to Newcastle is another corridor which screams where it would work aswell.

These would arguably be better value for money than spending £1bn+ on a Metro serving Washington outskirts heck add another route from Washington Galleries (where people want to be) direct to Newcastle via Sheriff Hill another corridor prime for it.

(02 Feb 2025, 8:14 am)Storx wrote (Edited) Personally I wouldn't look at our area for bus lanes as the vast majority of them are short and have no use or are in the complete wrong place ie around the angel so it's not a good place to look at. Personally I'd be looking at places like Brighton where there's a full network of them joined up and well connected and it works.

Another example would be the Glider services in Belfast which have shown 7-8% modal shift which is a fair bit (https://www.route-one.net/features/how-b...t-success/). 

Cars should not be using Gosforth High Street, Low Fell, West Road etc to get into Newcastle and should be mostly car free bar very local journeys and there's no reason why we couldn't have a similar system to above in terms of the bus priority, whether you wanted to go the full hog then that's your choice but they'd be successful on those corridors. It's not as if there's no bypasses for most of them anyway.

It's no longer to travel to Newcastle via Cowgate, if there was no traffic btw, since Gosforth is slow and that route is mostly 40mph+ but the 15 minute queue at Cowgate changes that. That's where the priority should be and it should even be BSIP funded with the caveat of reducing traffic in Gosforth where it really matters then you could look at things like the Glider in Belfast or whatever you fancied. The routes are already there 43/44/45/extra one to Great Park? The 21 from CLS to Newcastle is another corridor which screams where it would work aswell.

These would arguably be better value for money than spending £1bn+ on a Metro serving Washington outskirts heck add another route from Washington Galleries (where people want to be) direct to Newcastle via Sheriff Hill another corridor prime for it.

There's so much more to that route, other than bus lanes. 
There's the political aspect i.e East Belfast to West and the places it connects to on the way for a start. 

Tell you what though, if I spent £100m, I'd want more than a 7% modal switch.

(02 Feb 2025, 10:44 am)Andreos1 wrote There's so much more to that route, other than bus lanes. 
There's the political aspect i.e East Belfast to West and the places it connects to on the way for a start. 

Tell you what though, if I spent £100m, I'd want more than a 7% modal switch.

Aye agreed there's more to it but it's all bus priority mostly bar a few bus stops really. I'd argue the places the 21, 39/40, 56, 43/44/45 etc serve as substantial as those services. They're all got at least one destination point mid route and are all mostly urban areas through the full route heck even merge the 21 and 43/44/45 and create decent cross city links.

£100m for 7-9% modal shift isn't too bad imo. Obviously I don't know the numbers so have be cautious with %'s but a 70% growth in patronage isn't exactly bad. It would easily pay for the BSIP funding being pumped in the 21...

Not to mention if you reduced the routes by 5 minutes each board you'd knock a few vehicles off the PVR which could be used to run the extra service which you want elsewhere creating those missing links - effectively for free, instead of having buses parked up doing nothing in traffic jams.

If you merge 21/43/44/45 (which would never happy) although it could as theyre getting electrics

The delays would be horrendous, there simily isnt enough running time for any service from Gateshead to Eldon Square and thats like 1.5 miles.

Tbh the entire 21 route is just delay, after delay with no way to make up time especially if 1 doesnt turn up or 2 break down in a ROW

---

Thinking of merging the 21/43/44/45, you could merge

X10 (GNE) /X15 (ANE)
60 GNE/ 24 GNE (with the Drifter Branding going whcih I dont agree with X20/20/20A/56/60 should be the Deptford Branded Services considering the 60 is busier than the 20)
21 & 71 both GNE
57/58/27 (GNE & SCNE 30/31/32)

(02 Feb 2025, 11:08 am)Unber43 wrote If you merge 21/43/44/45 (which would never happy) although it could as theyre getting electrics

The delays would be horrendous, there simily isnt enough running time for any service from Gateshead to Eldon Square and thats like 1.5 miles.

Tbh the entire 21 route is just delay, after delay with no way to make up time especially if 1 doesnt turn up or 2 break down in a ROW

---

Thinking of merging the 21/43/44/45, you could merge

X10 (GNE) /X15 (ANE)
60 GNE/ 24 GNE (with the Drifter Branding going whcih I dont agree with X20/20/20A/56/60 should be the Deptford Branded Services considering the 60 is busier than the 20)
21 & 71 both GNE
57/58/27 (GNE & SCNE 30/31/32)

Aye it could never be done in it's current form. Would have to have massive investment on both sides of the Tyne to remove all the traffic hot spots so it would flow well.

Btw the 22 (Stagecoach) is only 2 miles shorter than the 43/21 would be combined from Chester Le Street to Cramlington. There's long routes around heading East / West.  The North/South transport links across Newcastle are dire though.

(02 Feb 2025, 2:17 pm)Storx wrote Aye it could never be done in it's current form. Would have to have massive investment on both sides of the Tyne to remove all the traffic hot spots so it would flow well.

Btw the 22 (Stagecoach) is only 2 miles shorter than the 43/21 would be combined from Chester Le Street to Cramlington. There's long routes around heading East / West.  The North/South transport links across Newcastle are dire though.

Newcaslte should just have a massive bus station, where all services go into. 

Then cross tyne links wouldnt be needed as there is a designated SAFE WARM TOILETED spot to wait

(02 Feb 2025, 2:34 pm)Unber43 wrote Newcaslte should just have a massive bus station, where all services go into. 

Then cross tyne links wouldnt be needed as there is a designated SAFE WARM TOILETED spot to wait

Issue with a single bus station is any incident/crash/fire alarm/maintenance etc affects all services.

(02 Feb 2025, 3:31 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Issue with a single bus station is any incident/crash/fire alarm/maintenance etc affects all services.

Space is the bigger problem and buses servives which are 10 minutes+ have no benefits serving one anyway. It just clogs up stands since the people wanting to use the services won't be waiting anyway for more than 5 minutes anyway.