(06 Jul 2025, 10:38 am)Storx wrote imo it's not really not bad value for money really considering the number of short routes that would have to run all over the place to replace it.

For context the 58, 434 and Morpeth locals in Northumberland are £1.7k a day or so combined and there's an awful lot more needed than that.

In Nexus land the 19 (North Tyneside part only) and 335 in 2023 were £3.5k a day combined. That's pretty much your whole budget gone already.

It wouldn’t be bad if people actually used it and it was actually of some use and easier to use such as been able to ring up or text instead of using an app which is complicated.    As it currently is it is a complete waste of money and like the airport is nothing more than a vanity project by Ben Houchen who will just keep wasting money on it instead of looking at what any alternatives are.

Exactly. Rarely used, generally empty, but money continues to be thrown.

Based on the Northumberland example, imagine how many buses this could pay for, that could provide all the same links, but on a timetable? 11 or 12 vehicles? It could probably be done with half of that.

TeesFlex literally competes with the existing bus network in East Cleveland, for example! It's an absolute waste of money.

(06 Jul 2025, 12:01 pm)col87 wrote It wouldn’t be bad if people actually used it and it was actually of some use and easier to use such as been able to ring up or text instead of using an app which is complicated.    As it currently is it is a complete waste of money and like the airport is nothing more than a vanity project by Ben Houchen who will just keep wasting money on it instead of looking at what any alternatives are.

You can, 0330 678 1535 is the number. It's at the bottom of the Tees Flex page, albeit quite hidden must admit.

[quote pid="319081" dateline="1751809239"]
SupermanExactly. Rarely used, generally empty, but money continues to be thrown.
Based on the Northumberland example, imagine how many buses this could pay for, that could provide all the same links, but on a timetable? 11 or 12 vehicles? It could probably be done with half of that.
TeesFlex literally competes with the existing bus network in East Cleveland, for example! It's an absolute waste of money.
[/quote]

It's only 9 vehicles all of that above and most those carry around fresh air aswell, especially the 58 and 19 shorts and a few of them don't run beyond 5pm either.

Teesflex isn't the problem, it's how it's advertised and the fact they've duplicated it in parts - the 1/2 should not exist at all, in particular. 

It's reasonable value for money imo as people would moan if there was a bus running to random villages carrying fresh air aswell.

(06 Jul 2025, 2:00 pm)Storx wrote You can, 0330 678 1535 is the number. It's at the bottom of the Tees Flex page, albeit quite hidden must admit.

[quote pid="319081" dateline="1751809239"]
SupermanExactly. Rarely used, generally empty, but money continues to be thrown.
Based on the Northumberland example, imagine how many buses this could pay for, that could provide all the same links, but on a timetable? 11 or 12 vehicles? It could probably be done with half of that.
TeesFlex literally competes with the existing bus network in East Cleveland, for example! It's an absolute waste of money.

It's only 9 vehicles all of that above and most those carry around fresh air aswell, especially the 58 and 19 shorts and a few of them don't run beyond 5pm either.

Teesflex isn't the problem, it's how it's advertised and the fact they've duplicated it in parts - the 1/2 should not exist at all, in particular. 

It's reasonable value for money imo as people would moan if there was a bus running to random villages carrying fresh air aswell.
[/quote]

The phone number is also on the buses themselves

I disagree, by a partnership approach, they could cover pretty much all of the areas TeesFlex claims to support, with a dedicated bus service of at least hourly (some even better) at about 80% of the cost in estimation. This could be done by means of extending existing services in most cases, removing a massive chunk of duplication.

The fact both TeesFlex and Svs 1/2 are extended until March 26 shows they don't have a clue what they are doing.

Someone should put in a FOI on TVCA to understand the cost per passenger, as I believe it's scary high and probably cheaper to pay for a taxi in most cases. The lack of proper scrutiny is shocking. Politically, Ben has backed himself into a corner on this one.

(06 Jul 2025, 2:00 pm)Storx wrote You can, 0330 678 1535 is the number. It's at the bottom of the Tees Flex page, albeit quite hidden must admit.

[quote pid="319081" dateline="1751809239"]
SupermanExactly. Rarely used, generally empty, but money continues to be thrown.
Based on the Northumberland example, imagine how many buses this could pay for, that could provide all the same links, but on a timetable? 11 or 12 vehicles? It could probably be done with half of that.
TeesFlex literally competes with the existing bus network in East Cleveland, for example! It's an absolute waste of money.

It's only 9 vehicles all of that above and most those carry around fresh air aswell, especially the 58 and 19 shorts and a few of them don't run beyond 5pm either.

Teesflex isn't the problem, it's how it's advertised and the fact they've duplicated it in parts - the 1/2 should not exist at all, in particular. 

It's reasonable value for money imo as people would moan if there was a bus running to random villages carrying fresh air aswell.
[/quote]

Spot on. Something like this needs a constant marketing effort, otherwise you end up relying on word of mouth on the fact it exists. It's not like a traditional service where there's a fixed stop and therefore the timetable displayed is your 'marketing'

I do think this is the best way to serve a lot of those communities, some of which don't have a stop within reasonable walking distance, and the road layout makes them difficult to serve with a normal bus service. I am however a bit surprised at the £6,000 a day figure. I wonder what Stagecoach are taking from that in profit, versus what it'd cost for TVCA to run it as an in-house operation?

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/t...ng-2889778

£14.86 per passenger journey is the subsidy, from last November for TeesFlex. That's just under £30 per return journey.

This will have marginally increased with the contract value increase and given TeesFlex isn't growing in passenger numbers either.

It's a clear waste of public money and quite a number of the locations can be accessed already by bus.

(07 Jul 2025, 1:15 pm)Superman wrote https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/t...ng-2889778

£14.86 per passenger journey is the subsidy, from last November for TeesFlex. That's just under £30 per return journey.

This will have marginally increased with the contract value increase and given TeesFlex isn't growing in passenger numbers either.

It's a clear waste of public money and quite a number of the locations can be accessed already by bus.

Not arguing for the sake of it, but not sure if that's actually that high considering the areas it's serving. The alternative is loads of routes like the 1, 2, X40/X41 etc which are also carrying around fresh air and I'd be pretty sure (might be wrong) that the subsidy is going to be worse on these.

imo these routes should be scrapped immediately and people pushed onto Teesflex which is the exact point of it.

Doing both is just stupid - and the real issue.

(07 Jul 2025, 3:47 pm)Storx wrote Not arguing for the sake of it, but not sure if that's actually that high considering the areas it's serving. The alternative is loads of routes like the 1, 2, X40/X41 etc which are also carrying around fresh air and I'd be pretty sure (might be wrong) that the subsidy is going to be worse on these.

imo these routes should be scrapped immediately and people pushed onto Teesflex which is the exact point of it.

Doing both is just stupid - and the real issue.

I agree, but equally, £30 a return journey is probably cheaper to just pay for Taxi fares in the vast majority of cases.

(07 Jul 2025, 4:26 pm)Superman wrote I agree, but equally, £30 a return journey is probably cheaper to just pay for Taxi fares in the vast majority of cases.

Aye you're probably right, to be honest, it would be interesting if it could be ran with 7 seater taxis instead and save costs there?

Taking all the marketing jargon away, DRT is basically just a shared taxi anyway and truthfully I never understand why they don't advertise it as that. I'd be well open to a travel route which I could book a shared taxi from here to somewhere for half the price of a normal taxi but more than a bus. The prices of taxis these days are horrid so having something in the middle would be appealing to me, especially at night when buses don't run.

(07 Jul 2025, 1:15 pm)Superman wrote https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/t...ng-2889778

£14.86 per passenger journey is the subsidy, from last November for TeesFlex. That's just under £30 per return journey.

This will have marginally increased with the contract value increase and given TeesFlex isn't growing in passenger numbers either.

It's a clear waste of public money and quite a number of the locations can be accessed already by bus. 

And not a lot of places are served by buses at all. 

Conversely, I know people who have made the switch from say the 81 and use Teesflex instead because it is cheaper and generally quicker. 
I'd agree it (and the 1/2) have detracted from the 81, X3 or 5. But I would also say that it has in turn brought benefits to the wider population and brought people on to public transport, who couldn't or wouldn't use it prior to Teesflex m

I've used Teesflex quite a lot myself and in the main, between places where there is no direct alternative. 
What should I do? Not use public transport, pay for two buses (there isn't a day ticket alternative) or something else? 

It's far from perfect, but it's better than nothing.

(07 Jul 2025, 5:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote And not a lot of places are served by buses at all. 

Conversely, I know people who have made the switch from say the 81 and use Teesflex instead because it is cheaper and generally quicker. 
I'd agree it (and the 1/2) have detracted from the 81, X3 or 5. But I would also say that it has in turn brought benefits to the wider population and brought people on to public transport, who couldn't or wouldn't use it prior to Teesflex m

I've used Teesflex quite a lot myself and in the main, between places where there is no direct alternative. 
What should I do? Not use public transport, pay for two buses (there isn't a day ticket alternative) or something else? 

It's far from perfect, but it's better than nothing.

Ironically this is what people had to do before Tees Flex, as they had been left behind from a commercial bus network. Teesflex is no doubt a lifeline to those people.

I'd love to see it improved in terms of marketing it properly, but I stand by that I feel it could be ran more efficiently and cheaper as an in house operation. If it's not a profitable service, as people suggest, then why pay a company to cream a % off the top?

(08 Jul 2025, 1:53 pm)Adrian wrote Ironically this is what people had to do before Tees Flex, as they had been left behind from a commercial bus network. Teesflex is no doubt a lifeline to those people.

I'd love to see it improved in terms of marketing it properly, but I stand by that I feel it could be ran more efficiently and cheaper as an in house operation. If it's not a profitable service, as people suggest, then why pay a company to cream a % off the top?

I'm not sure it would be you know. I understand that they're taking a profit hit, but if it was publically ran then you'd need an engineer or two, a depot, some cleaners, some form of control room with staff, management - who won't be doing it cheap as I don't believe there's anyone on the TVCA team with bus management experience and so on...

All adds up, since it's not the biggest of all operations, otherwise you'd just be outsourcing that instead and you're back to square one anyway. 

Obviously if it was part of a bigger operation, then definitely, but that's still banned - as far as I'm aware.

(08 Jul 2025, 4:10 pm)Storx wrote I'm not sure it would be you know. I understand that they're taking a profit hit, but if it was publically ran then you'd need an engineer or two, a depot, some cleaners, some form of control room with staff, management - who won't be doing it cheap as I don't believe there's anyone on the TVCA team with bus management experience and so on...

All adds up, since it's not the biggest of all operations, otherwise you'd just be outsourcing that instead and you're back to square one anyway. 

Obviously if it was part of a bigger operation, then definitely, but that's still banned - as far as I'm aware.

Most of TVCA's councils will already have all of this, as they have their own fleets to maintain and store. You're only talking about a couple of extra vans.