(13 Jul 2025, 9:41 pm)NEtransport wrote You are deluded. 

I doubt a pathetic attempt at competition like the X22/X43 will make any difference to Go North East.

Not sure what's pathetic about an independent trying to make something work commercially mind. Makes a change to everyone leeching off tax payers money, like recent times. 

Don't disagree it won't impact GoNorthEast though, but I'm not sure it's what they're trying to do anyway.

I'm sure that, as in the past, the X20 change is mostly a case of allocating the Durham - Langley Park section of the route to the different service(s) changing the resources required, rather than increasing or decreasing them. It's previously been the standalone 14 and and part of the 20A.

The X5/15 is currently half of what it was 6 years ago so maybe this is an attempt to make it more viable or to move resource demand away from Deptford.

And, after all, it's a constant that retail parks haven't been well served by bus services and one of the things that GNE has done right, routing the 21 via the Arnison centre, has proved that there is a demand for it.

(14 Jul 2025, 3:27 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I'm sure that, as in the past, the X20 change is mostly a case of allocating the Durham - Langley Park section of the route to the different service(s) changing the resources required, rather than increasing or decreasing them. It's previously been the standalone 14 and and part of the 20A.

The X5/15 is currently half of what it was 6 years ago so maybe this is an attempt to make it more viable or to move resource demand away from Deptford.

And, after all, it's a constant that retail parks haven't been well served by bus services and one of the things that GNE has done right, routing the 21 via the Arnison centre, has proved that there is a demand for it.

That's a pretty big diversion though. Going from a circa 35-40 minute journey time DHM > CON

GNE have not helped the decline with poor reliability, unsuitable vehicle allocations (i.e cast off non-native B9TL / E400), strikes, driver shortages.

Derwentside communities are very close knit and if GNE go ahead with these changes, I can see Northstar giving a competing commercial service a good go sticking to the current X5/X15 routes, and with only a PVR of 3 hence less of a commercial risk! Word would get around very quickly, not forgetting the benefit of a smaller pool of drivers getting to know the passengers.

Not forgetting the nightmare traffic which can occur at the Arnison Centre during busy times too.

(14 Jul 2025, 3:27 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I'm sure that, as in the past, the X20 change is mostly a case of allocating the Durham - Langley Park section of the route to the different service(s) changing the resources required, rather than increasing or decreasing them. It's previously been the standalone 14 and and part of the 20A.

The X5/15 is currently half of what it was 6 years ago so maybe this is an attempt to make it more viable or to move resource demand away from Deptford.

And, after all, it's a constant that retail parks haven't been well served by bus services and one of the things that GNE has done right, routing the 21 via the Arnison centre, has proved that there is a demand for it.

I know it's a few years away yet, but the the 13/14/X20 or whatever number it is this week, really should be ran by the Arriva Durham depot imo.

It's a bit of a headache for GoNorthEast since they shut all the depots nearby and it's a bit out of the beaten track ie. bar Sacriston, it's pretty much all operationally out of area really nowadays. 

Obviously won't happen right now but hopefully something that they look at when franchising comes in. Would really help with the 64 capacity issues if they interworked it with the 64 aswell between the Arnison and Durham aswell.

(14 Jul 2025, 7:14 pm)Storx wrote I know it's a few years away yet, but the the 13/14/X20 or whatever number it is this week, really should be ran by the Arriva Durham depot imo.

It's a bit of a headache for GoNorthEast since they shut all the depots nearby and it's a bit out of the beaten track ie. bar Sacriston, it's pretty much all operationally out of area really nowadays. 

Obviously won't happen right now but hopefully something that they look at when franchising comes in. Would really help with the 64 capacity issues if they interworked it with the 64 aswell between the Arnison and Durham aswell.

Or you could just extend the Arriva 64 from Arnison Centre up to Langley Park, I do agree that is does make operational sense for them to be operated out of Belmont.

(14 Jul 2025, 8:54 pm)Malarkey wrote Or you could just extend the Arriva 64 from Arnison Centre up to Langley Park, I do agree that is does make operational sense for them to be operated out of Belmont.

Yeah lots you could do to be fair, could make a case for messing around with the 43 and 48 aswell and come in from the far side of Langley Park, if you only wanted to sort out Langley Park with a reasonable service. Esh Winning and Bear Park, depending which you messed around with, aren't far away - especially the 48 if it was split at Bear Park.

Is the issue with the Durham - Langley Park section the lack of local depot? It can always be bolted onto the end of another route but then you may have issues with driving time and also, if there is a breakdown, you have the response times and the knock on effects of this.

When I was as Deptford and did the X20, there was very few passengers that went from the Langley Park end passed through Durham City Centre (I do remember a couple of guys that went to Belmont Industrial Estate). Lots of People Langley Park to Arnison Centre though (and the college).

Is this service still being supported or has that ended?

(15 Jul 2025, 11:08 am)morritt89 wrote Is the issue with the Durham - Langley Park section the lack of local depot? It can always be bolted onto the end of another route but then you may have issues with driving time and also, if there is a breakdown, you have the response times and the knock on effects of this.

When I was as Deptford and did the X20, there was very few passengers that went from the Langley Park end passed through Durham City Centre (I do remember a couple of guys that went to Belmont Industrial Estate).  Lots of People Langley Park to Arnison Centre though (and the college).

Is this service still being supported or has that ended?

Think it's just the Durham to Sunderland bit that's been funded, the rest is commercial I think.

The Arnison Centre is the biggest headache though as it's constantly busy at Christmas time so unless you give a lot of padding then it just messes everything up and it's at the wrong end of the route to regulate. 

Not sure what the answer is really for GoNorthEast as nothing really works on it but I could understand why someone in Langley Park would be pissed off because the X20 got regulated and cut short (which does happen from time to time) and the next one isn't for 30 minutes.

(15 Jul 2025, 2:38 pm)Storx wrote Think it's just the Durham to Sunderland bit that's been funded, the rest is commercial I think.

The Arnison Centre is the biggest headache though as it's constantly busy at Christmas time so unless you give a lot of padding then it just messes everything up and it's at the wrong end of the route to regulate. 

Not sure what the answer is really for GoNorthEast as nothing really works on it but I could understand why someone in Langley Park would be pissed off because the X20 got regulated and cut short (which does happen from time to time) and the next one isn't for 30 minutes.

Hit the nail on the head about that!

If GNE mess with the X5/X15, they are leaving a wide open gap IMO for a competitor to provide a faster service.

If the X5/X15 were performing poorly, GNE would've changed them during previous major changes which involved route cuts / mergers.

(15 Jul 2025, 2:38 pm)Storx wrote Think it's just the Durham to Sunderland bit that's been funded, the rest is commercial I think.

The Arnison Centre is the biggest headache though as it's constantly busy at Christmas time so unless you give a lot of padding then it just messes everything up and it's at the wrong end of the route to regulate. 

Not sure what the answer is really for GoNorthEast as nothing really works on it but I could understand why someone in Langley Park would be pissed off because the X20 got regulated and cut short (which does happen from time to time) and the next one isn't for 30 minutes.

They could use the stops by Lidl, like the 50 does. They’re not as convenient 
But the bus gate by Sainsbury’s is getting to the point of being over capacity, anyhow (particularly when GNE’s shonky buses conk out at the narrowest part.)

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(15 Jul 2025, 8:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote Hit the nail on the head about that!

If GNE mess with the X5/X15, they are leaving a wide open gap IMO for a competitor to provide a faster service.

If the X5/X15 were performing poorly, GNE would've changed them during previous major changes which involved route cuts / mergers.

They did change them. They used to provide a service at twice the current frequency.

(16 Jul 2025, 3:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote They could use the stops by Lidl, like the 50 does. They’re not as convenient 
But the bus gate by Sainsbury’s is getting to the point of being over capacity, anyhow (particularly when GNE’s shonky buses conk out at the narrowest part.)

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They did change them. They used to provide a service at twice the current frequency.

Has the X5/X15 and 15/15A not always been half-hourly / hourly?

(16 Jul 2025, 7:26 pm)L469 YVK wrote Has the X5/X15 and 15/15A not always been half-hourly / hourly?

No, you’re right. I could have sworn they’ve been more frequent at some point.

(16 Jul 2025, 3:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote They could use the stops by Lidl, like the 50 does. They’re not as convenient 
But the bus gate by Sainsbury’s is getting to the point of being over capacity, anyhow (particularly when GNE’s shonky buses conk out at the narrowest part.)

Yeah that's true. To be honest I don't understand why don't reverse the whole Arnison bus lane and open up a shortcut coming in from Rotary Way direct something like:


There's more than enough space to put in multiple bus stops along that side where the pink dots are instead of fighting for a little island and like you said, causing havoc when something gets stuck, for whatever reason.

It'd help the 21 and X20 aswell as they could just do a quick loop rather than the Durham services, having to double back like they do now, like:

I do find the both ways along Abbey Road a little odd but Rotary way and the A167 roundabout also get quite snarled up during busy periods, so if anything, the Abbey Road double take bypasses that for the Southbound 21.

To be honest, most of the traffic problems within the arnison centre would be solved if that McDonald's wasn't there.

(16 Jul 2025, 10:27 pm)BusLoverMum wrote I do find the both ways along Abbey Road a little odd but Rotary way and the A167 roundabout also get quite snarled up during busy periods, so if anything, the Abbey Road double take bypasses that for the Southbound 21.

To be honest, most of the traffic problems within the arnison centre would be solved if that McDonald's wasn't there.

Aye you're right with McDonalds mind. Not sure they'd agree though, that place must make an absolute killing.

Classic today. Set out for a Brandon bound 21. Got to the bus stop and checked the app and saw that it was 6970 and on Fram Front street. Joked that it might even get us to our destination.

It's still on Fram Front Street 90 minutes later. We used Arriva.

Looks like the B8L MCV EvoSeti is available in 12m length, taking into account that GNE operated long Omnidekkas into Eldon Square, these would fit

https://www.facebook.com/share/1BZSrocupv/

Get a low height variant, and they'd have use in Derwentside after 7-8 years on the X10.

Currently sitting on 5474 an external branded Coaster service (was 1 now 301) Internally all the commercial adverts are removed and only GNE necessary adverts / messages up... is something happening with this fleet? are they moving depots 

curiosity kills the cat ....

(20 Jul 2025, 11:02 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Currently sitting on 5474 an external branded Coaster service (was 1 now 301) Internally all the commercial adverts are removed and only GNE necessary adverts / messages up... is something happening with this fleet? are they moving depots 

curiosity kills the cat ....

I reckon the Angel Streetdecks will be going on the 301 once the Electrics arrive for the 21 and the Streetlites will be will be split between Washington and Riverside for the 4/49's & 96 which would see off the 63 Plate Citaros/Versas.

(21 Jul 2025, 5:50 pm)Malarkey wrote I reckon the Angel Streetdecks will be going on the 301 once the Electrics arrive for the 21 and the Streetlites will be will be split between Washington and Riverside for the 4/49's & 96 which would see off the 63 Plate Citaros/Versas.

I wonder where the B9's on the 56 will go?

(21 Jul 2025, 5:50 pm)Malarkey wrote I reckon the Angel Streetdecks will be going on the 301 once the Electrics arrive for the 21 and the Streetlites will be will be split between Washington and Riverside for the 4/49's & 96 which would see off the 63 Plate Citaros/Versas.

Honestly can't see that personally. I still think they'll stay at Riverside for the 93/94, and 51/52 and get rid of the ex London Dual Doors etc out of frontline service with the ex London B9's going into the spare role instead. 

They're easy routes and will keep all the Streetdecks together. 

The 56 B9's going to Consett and upgrading the likes of the X5/X15 etc and getting the 07/08/58 Plates out of service there plus the B5TL's. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the E200MMC's get a proper role somewhere either.

Do we know for sure that new vehicles are coming for the 56. I reckon that is where the Angel Streetdecks will end up...

6353 has been confined to the 21 for the past few days after breaking down on the X10 last Thursday

(21 Jul 2025, 7:20 pm)citaro5284 wrote Do we know for sure that new vehicles are coming for the 56. I reckon that is where the Angel Streetdecks will end up...

Hopefully new buses for the 56, could mean alot of older buses getting withdrawn.


Did I read somewhere, that GNE have ordered ADL electric buses for the 21?

I'm suprised they didn't go for Yutongs.

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When are GNE expecting the electric buses to arrive and when will work start on adding more chargers at the depot?

(21 Jul 2025, 7:58 pm)Michael wrote Hopefully new buses for the 56, could mean alot of older buses getting withdrawn.


Did I read somewhere, that GNE have ordered ADL electric buses for the 21?

I'm suprised they didn't go for Yutongs.

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When are GNE expecting the electric buses to arrive and when will work start on adding more chargers at the depot?

Has there actually been any confirmation of the buses for the 56 though? There's been a lot of chat on here, but unlike all other EV orders I can't remember anything in the news or from GNE?

(21 Jul 2025, 8:02 pm)PH - BQA wrote Has there actually been any confirmation of the buses for the 56 though? There's been a lot of chat on here, but unlike all other EV orders I can't remember anything in the news or from GNE?

Electric ADLs E200s  for the X66s and there's 25 Cummins engines Streetdecks on order so some for 56 apparently, electric Deckers for 21s and 58s but not sure if there ADL or Streetdecks

(21 Jul 2025, 8:19 pm)Retro Nero wrote Electric ADLs E200s  for the X66s and there's 25 Cummins engines Streetdecks on order so some for 56 apparently, electric Deckers for 21s and 58s but not sure if there ADL or Streetdecks

Good selection of buses if true.


I think the 56 PVR is 15 so I'd imagine at least 17 would be for Deptford (same spec spares) leaves 8.

I wonder if the other 8 would go to Riverside.

Will be interesting to see if they put shiny new electric buses on the N21 vomit comet weekend services…

Why are GNE going to receive Cummins Ultroliners when the rest of GAG are getting ADL E400MMC as their standard diesel deckers?

The EV orders are:
- 21 - 18x double deckers
- X66 - 3x or 4x double deckers
- 58 - 7x or 8x single deckers

I doubt GNE will order more than 14x (plus 1x or 2x spare) for the 56.


My predictions for cascades are

B9TL:
- 6043-48 - Spares (some or all likely stay at Consett)

- 6149-55 - Gateshead locals & 57

- 6086-6109 - X5/X15 (5x*), X45 (5x), 16/16A (8x), 47 (6x)

- 6110-17 - X21 (8x)

* PVR 5x for X5/X15 based on rumoured changes.


StreetDeck:
- 6301-07 - Percy Main Spares / DFDS

- 6315-29 - 307/309 (14x)**

** 1x extra incase 309 PVR increases to 15x in future - likely given traffic conditions in North Tyneside and StreetDecks slower than B9TLs

- 6330-33 - 34 (1x), Washington Spares (3x)

- 6356-76 - 34 (2x), 50 (7x), X1 (12x)


E400/E400MMC:
- 6232-40 - Gateshead locals & 57

- 6336-37 - Consett spares

- 6338-51 - X30s / X70s (includes 2x spare)


B5TLs to another GAG subsidary if X20 changed to single deck.

Effectively, most 63 plate B9TL kept together other than 8x for the X21. All 20/70 plate StreetDecks kept together. Troublesome 6301-07 removed from frontline work into spare role. 307 & 309 (especially 307) run by more suitable fuel efficient vehicles which is also a benefit for the misc 352/3/4/5/6 workings which Cobalt B9TLs known to stray onto.

Asides from EV's, main diesel decker fleets at depots effectively standardised too and some crap such as the voyager B9TLs withdrawn too!

Consett - B9TL / E400MMC
Riverside - B9TL / E400 / E400MMC
Deptford - E400MMC
Percy Main - StreetDeck
Washington - StreetDeck

The Electric version of the ADL Enviro 200 hasn't been built yet. Only electrics from ADL at the minute are the ADL Enviro 100EV and Enviro 400EV.