(17 Oct 2025, 4:20 pm)Adrian wrote I don't think it'll be the last big jump either. I think we'll see more businesses or organisations attracted to City Centre accommodation, and to be honest, we need to encourage that. It's pointless banging on about the high street and retail, it's got to be about repurposing space and introducing new footfall.

And if that happens (and I think it will), the network will work again. as it did in the 80s, when people actually needed to be in the City Centre. Just goes to show that, like clothes, if you resist changing a bus network for 40 years, it'll eventually come back into fashion.

(16 Oct 2025, 3:04 pm)DodgepotMcDougal wrote All Operators/modes are going to need to do something. You can't dump up thousands of people a day in to the transport network without it breaking.

Metro is at capacity without significant investment. I'm not sure where the additional DMU trains are for Northern. The short and medium solution has to be bus. Be that enhanced frequencies, Park and Ride. Express buses or a mix of all three.

Local authorities will have to step up as well - I just hope the "active" travel merchants that riddle these organisations are shot in to the sun with regards this issue. The last thing needed is even further reduced road space for mass people movers (buses) on the approaches to the city. I know three people that are going to be moving in, and they ain't getting on a bike!

Metro capacity will have increased with the new fleet rolled out by then, and also a system wide frequency increase will be possible thanks to the Metro Flow project a few years back.

New trains coming to Northern and the likes of Transport for Wales should free up additional 158s to come to the NE.

If you’ve visited any forward thinking cities such as London, Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc you’ll have seen that reallocating city centre road space to public transport and active travel is much more efficient in terms of volume of people moving, and is better for people’s health and the environment.
However, as others have said some councils here aren’t too willing and are scared to upset drivers, especially on the run up to the elections.

(Yesterday, 7:10 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Metro capacity will have increased with the new fleet rolled out by then, and also a system wide frequency increase will be possible thanks to the Metro Flow project a few years back.

New trains coming to Northern and the likes of Transport for Wales should free up additional 158s to come to the NE.

If you’ve visited any forward thinking cities such as London, Copenhagen, Amsterdam etc you’ll have seen that reallocating city centre road space to public transport and active travel is much more efficient in terms of volume of people moving, and is better for people’s health and the environment.
However, as others have said some councils here aren’t too willing and are scared to upset drivers, especially on the run up to the elections.

I don't even think that's the core of the issue here. The issue is that they can dig, change and reallocate all the road space they want, but they do not have the power (at present) to change the network in such a way that space is utilised. 

We've seen other examples around the region, where bus priority is introduced at great cost, yet the service frequency decreases.

Once there's some cooperation, hopefully we'll see some improvement.

(Yesterday, 8:04 pm)Adrian wrote I don't even think that's the core of the issue here. The issue is that they can dig, change and reallocate all the road space they want, but they do not have the power (at present) to change the network in such a way that space is utilised. 

We've seen other examples around the region, where bus priority is introduced at great cost, yet the service frequency decreases.

Once there's some cooperation, hopefully we'll see some improvement.

The heart of the issue is that councils don't see the direct financial cost of needing more drivers or vehicles to deliver the same or worse level of service due to worsening travel speeds.

Apart from a small number of individuals, they see buses no differently to lorries or delivery companies. Why should buses get special treatment? That is the attitude which riddles the councils.

So the easiest thing for them to do is keep the car users happy, as they are bigger voting block. It's as simple as that.

(9 hours ago)DodgepotMcDougal wrote The heart of the issue is that councils don't see the direct financial cost of needing more drivers or vehicles to deliver the same or worse level of service due to worsening travel speeds.

Apart from a small number of individuals, they see buses no differently to lorries or delivery companies. Why should buses get special treatment? That is the attitude which riddles the councils.

So the easiest thing for them to do is keep the car users happy, as they are bigger voting block. It's as simple as that.

If we are talking NCC then i think the last thisng they do is keep car drivers happy. More bus and cycle routes than ever.  Car parking charged increasing more the inflation. Charging BBH to park in their car parks when it used to be free.

I also dont see any Lorry only lanes or any  Delevery company stops.

The buck stops ( in my view) with the mentality of people. People dont want to move from there car onto a bus.  Im on my own at the minute but when my staff come in 99% of them, i have no doubt, would NEFER change or return to publi transport.

And on a side note a couple of 18 something where I live has just passed there test and are now driving rather than have to use the bus

(5 hours ago)Rob44 wrote If we are talking NCC then i think the last thisng they do is keep car drivers happy. More bus and cycle routes than ever.  Car parking charged increasing more the inflation. Charging BBH to park in their car parks when it used to be free.

I also dont see any Lorry only lanes or any  Delevery company stops.

The buck stops ( in my view) with the mentality of people. People dont want to move from there car onto a bus.  Im on my own at the minute but when my staff come in 99% of them, i have no doubt, would NEFER change or return to publi transport.

And on a side note a couple of 18 something where I live has just passed there test and are now driving rather than have to use the bus

The problem with buses is rail/metro systems (or lack of them) and when they do exist the price is insane and integration doesn't exist. 

It's no surprise the buses in places like the West End do well but once you get to the rural areas they're a nightmare.

People just don't want to travel on buses for 30 minutes plus, me included. 

That's why if you go to decent European network they'll have a little hopper service which is frequent to the nearest rail / metro service and then do the long journey on rail. 

Obviously people will say rail will be a white elephant but you just have to look at how well the Northumberland Line is doing and 2 stations still aren't open and there's no hopper service at all currently.

Even London works like that.

(3 hours ago)Storx wrote The problem with buses is rail/metro systems (or lack of them) and when they do exist the price is insane and integration doesn't exist. 

It's no surprise the buses in places like the West End do well but once you get to the rural areas they're a nightmare.

People just don't want to travel on buses for 30 minutes plus, me included. 

So from a personal experience, I'm wanting to buy a property located within 15 minutes walking distance to a Metro station. Even more so motivated by the fact that on a matchday, I get dropped off at Northumberland Park and use the Metro as opposed to the slog on the Coast Road.

Is better bus & metro integration not what we need? Even if co-existing / working in partnership with commercial services and integrared TOTO bus / metro fares - it could work if carefully planned out with a network of minibuses.

(2 hours ago)L469 YVK wrote So from a personal experience, I'm wanting to buy a property located within 15 minutes walking distance to a Metro station. Even more so motivated by the fact that on a matchday, I get dropped off at Northumberland Park and use the Metro as opposed to the slog on the Coast Road.

Is better bus & metro integration not what we need? Even if co-existing / working in partnership with commercial services and integrared TOTO bus / metro fares - it could work if carefully planned out with a network of minibuses.

To an extent it would work for the places it's near but imo the Metro isn't really in an ideal spot, especially for the South, which is arguably the worst of the transport. 

It already works in South Shields and Sunderland really. 

There's not really anywhere sensible in the Durham direction since there's no rail stops bar a random CLS service and Durham station is on top of a massive hill with no intermodal transport. 

I know some people will say Gateshead but that would be just annoying as it's backwards ie. short hop on the metro and still a long bus journey and Heworth is a detour.

I always think the lack of any plans for a Metro station around Penshaw/Shiney Row due to the route they've chose is a big big lost opportunity as it would've been ideal for down there with the 2, 4, 37, 39, 78 and X1 already serving it. Would've been ideal for the likes of Fencehouses or whatever.

(2 hours ago)Storx wrote To an extent it would work for the places it's near but imo the Metro isn't really in an ideal spot, especially for the South, which is arguably the worst of the transport. 

It already works in South Shields and Sunderland really. 

There's not really anywhere sensible in the Durham direction since there's no rail stops bar a random CLS service and Durham station is on top of a massive hill with no intermodal transport. 

I know some people will say Gateshead but that would be just annoying as it's backwards ie. short hop on the metro and still a long bus journey and Heworth is a detour.

I always think the lack of any plans for a Metro station around Penshaw/Shiney Row due to the route they've chose is a big big lost opportunity as it would've been ideal for down there with the 2, 4, 37, 39, 78 and X1 already serving it. Would've been ideal for the likes of Fencehouses or whatever.

that would be me!!! ;o;.

I still say too many buses go into Newcastle when thye could just end journey at gateshead,  Ive seen nothing on social media about people who wanted John Dobson street having to alight the "X" services at gateshead and hop on a 56,57,58, or 28,28bor 29 due to the express service going straight to barras bridge. 

Its no so bad now but before askew road was made bus lane it could take the bus a good 20 minutes plus at peak to get to eldon square and to be fair it wasnt just cars and lorries causing the traffice, it was other buses carrying freash air heading all to same destination

(1 hour ago)Rob44 wrote that would be me!!! ;o;.

I still say too many buses go into Newcastle when thye could just end journey at gateshead,  Ive seen nothing on social media about people who wanted John Dobson street having to alight the "X" services at gateshead and hop on a 56,57,58, or 28,28bor 29 due to the express service going straight to barras bridge. 

Its no so bad now but before askew road was made bus lane it could take the bus a good 20 minutes plus at peak to get to eldon square and to be fair it wasnt just cars and lorries causing the traffice, it was other buses carrying freash air heading all to same destination

Aye I get the argument, to be fair, but I'd find it annoying if I had to get a bus from here to say Four Lane Ends which would take 25 minutes to then have to change at the Metro. Would be a right chew on when I've done most the journey.

The only exception for Gateshead is the 27 really, as you could change at Heworth for Newcastle and it's probably six and two threes anyway, potentially quicker if you utilised the resource to up the rest of the route anyway. Obviously with Intermodal tickets anyway. 

The obvious routes like the 57 which you could make an argument for are just too infrequent really.

(1 hour ago)Rob44 wrote that would be me!!! ;o;.

I still say too many buses go into Newcastle when thye could just end journey at gateshead,  Ive seen nothing on social media about people who wanted John Dobson street having to alight the "X" services at gateshead and hop on a 56,57,58, or 28,28bor 29 due to the express service going straight to barras bridge. 

Its no so bad now but before askew road was made bus lane it could take the bus a good 20 minutes plus at peak to get to eldon square and to be fair it wasnt just cars and lorries causing the traffice, it was other buses carrying freash air heading all to same destination

There are lots of routes that cross the Tyne Bridge but if you count the actual trips each hour, it's not an overwhelming number of departures

The Metro simply couldn't cope with the numbers of people that buses would be dump at Gateshead.