(23 Feb 2014, 5:35 pm)tyresmoke wrote Being the quickest option between Sunderland and Hartlepool helps, and the upgrade to full size buses must be justified otherwise as VolvoMarkII says, Arriva wouldn't invest if the business case wasn't there (or indeed if it would extract revenue from another route dragging the whole house of cards down...).

There's no denying that certain routes don't generate a massive amount of profit but they are slowly being thinned out (see the recent changes on Teesside) but there are a few jewels in the crown which see repeated investment across the region.

Hopefully by 2015 we will have all of the poor quality vehicles left in the fleet ousted, certainly we are expecting to be completely low floor inside the next few months. What's left of the DAF Prestiges will be all gone, as will the older MPD's and hopefully a start can be made on the larger Darts too

I have no idea where people are getting the impression that everyone has about the 23/24 not doing very well between Sunderland and Peterlee. I did the 1737 23 to Hartlepool on Thursday and took £41 on one trip alone, which doesn't sound a lot, but considering that there were 36 passengers on at one point is quite good justification of new buses. Strangely, there seem to be more people using the 23/24 to travel from Sunderland to Grangetown and Ryhope than there used to be, even when there are both a 60 and 61 sitting on the stands alongside.

Although the X7/X35 connection does give a similar journey time to the 23, that is only an hourly service whereas Arriva can boast a 15 minute service from Sunderland to Hartlepool, with the 23 running direct and the 22/24 connecting at Peterlee.

(23 Feb 2014, 5:47 pm)Dan wrote It's only the quickest option by 8 minutes. Arriva's 23 takes 1hr 10m while GNE's X7/X35 takes 1hr 18m (with a connection at Peterlee). Despite this, I highly doubt many people actually use service 23 between Sunderland and Hartlepool. The competition blows Arriva's 23 out of the water on both sections of the route.

I don't know which company provides the cheapest fares, but if they are the same or Arriva's fares are more expensive, I can see why customers seemingly prefer Go North East's services. At Hartlepool in the past, I have heard customers complaining regarding the reliability of service 23. I personally can vouch for delays over 10 minutes during mid-afternoon periods towards Sunderland. I have also heard complaints regarding the reliability of service X35, but as we know, recent service changes enabled Go North East to provide a greater layover for that service in Sunderland. In the little experience I've had with the service post service changes, it has improved things.
Like the SimpliCity ticket for Go North East (recently discussed on that section of the forum), I think the introduction of saver tickets in the East Durham area would have been to attract custom from the competition. Whether this has worked or whether it has backfired and an even smaller amount of revenue is now being generated, I do not know.

I think if anything, Arriva have invested in a service allocated Solos for MPD replacement. Service 23 - albeit poor - must have been one of the better services allocated Solos... Quite like the Venture network for Go North East.

Let's not forget that the 23 takes 70 minutes in both directions, and thats with a direct service rather than a connection that, in times of disruption especially, could go wrong. If you are travelling from Hartlepool for example then GNE's comparative journey time is 89 minutes versus the 70 minutes that the 23 takes, not to mention an earlier service on a morning for those who use it to get to and from work.
Brand new vehicles to be launched in the summer on service 23 will compare well with the Scanias used on the X35 I'm sure, to be of a similar size and operating at a similar frequency.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:11 pm)tyresmoke wrote Let's not forget that the 23 takes 70 minutes in both directions, and thats with a direct service rather than a connection that, in times of disruption especially, could go wrong. If you are travelling from Hartlepool for example then GNE's comparative journey time is 89 minutes versus the 70 minutes that the 23 takes, not to mention an earlier service on a morning for those who use it to get to and from work.
Brand new vehicles to be launched in the summer on service 23 will compare well with the Scanias used on the X35 I'm sure, to be of a similar size and operating at a similar frequency.

I'd still use the X35, prices are much better

(23 Feb 2014, 6:05 pm)palatine3833 wrote I have no idea where people are getting the impression that everyone has about the 23/24 not doing very well between Sunderland and Peterlee. I did the 1737 23 to Hartlepool on Thursday and took £41 on one trip alone, which doesn't sound a lot, but considering that there were 36 passengers on at one point is quite good justification of new buses. Strangely, there seem to be more people using the 23/24 to travel from Sunderland to Grangetown and Ryhope than there used to be, even when there are both a 60 and 61 sitting on the stands alongside.

Although the X7/X35 connection does give a similar journey time to the 23, that is only an hourly service whereas Arriva can boast a 15 minute service from Sunderland to Hartlepool, with the 23 running direct and the 22/24 connecting at Peterlee.

You had standees on the 23? If I'd have seen it for myself, I'd have collapsed. Seriously, I have never seen it with more than approximately 10 passengers, and that is the peak journeys around the time you mentioned. The early morning runs (from 8am) run almost empty compared to Go North East's services which operate full to the brim (Sunderland-bound especially).

I only ever travel between Ryhope and Sunderland and I'll only use the 23 if that turns up before the other services along that corridor. I can't account for a large number of the journeys, but the ones I can account for are the ones where services are usually at their best. From there I can only account for Saturday day time arrivals in Peterlee and Hartlepool, and they're really not the best...

Well, I hope the increased passenger numbers between Sunderland and Grangetown/Ryhope aren't POP card holders. They may be refused travel, made to pay bus fare despite having the correct ticket or humiliated in front of (very few) other passengers.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:11 pm)tyresmoke wrote Let's not forget that the 23 takes 70 minutes in both directions, and thats with a direct service rather than a connection that, in times of disruption especially, could go wrong. If you are travelling from Hartlepool for example then GNE's comparative journey time is 89 minutes versus the 70 minutes that the 23 takes, not to mention an earlier service on a morning for those who use it to get to and from work.
Brand new vehicles to be launched in the summer on service 23 will compare well with the Scanias used on the X35 I'm sure, to be of a similar size and operating at a similar frequency.

Is this a suggestion that with the new vehicles will come a decreased frequency? Oh dear.

Is this a suggestion that with the new vehicles will come a decreased frequency? Oh dear.
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I thought the 23 ran half hourly anyway, same as the X35?

(23 Feb 2014, 6:23 pm)Michael wrote I thought the 23 ran half hourly anyway, same as the X35?

That's correct, but the mention of the similar frequency made me think perhaps a 20 minute combined frequency with the 24, rather than the 15 minute at present?

(23 Feb 2014, 6:23 pm)Michael wrote Is this a suggestion that with the new vehicles will come a decreased frequency? Oh dear.

I thought the 23 ran half hourly anyway, same as the X35?
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23 does run every 30 minutes, combined with the 22 between Peterlee and Hartlepool and with the 24 between Peterlee and Sunderland to create a 15 minutes frequency on the corridor.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:24 pm)Dan wrote That's correct, but the mention of the similar frequency made me think perhaps a 20 minute combined frequency with the 24, rather than the 15 minute at present?

No changes planned to the network as far as I know, best to leave it otherwise people start to get confused when services change too frequently. We've seen that in Sunderland and Northumberland...

I think Go North East should start a new X8 service in competition with the 23/24 when the Citaros from the ''Crusader'' become free, operating between Sunderland and Hartlepool, combining with the X7 to provide a service every 30 minutes between Sunderland and Peterlee, which is usually very busy. It would also serve Dalton Park. However, one X35 a hour would terminate at Peterlee.

You're all taking about the 23 being replaced with vehicles and the Solos being allocated to Darlington, but what vehicle type will be used on the 23? Is it definite the Temsa's from Redcar are being allocated to the 23? And if the Durham Park and Ride Solo's are displaced, where will they go and what do you think will be used on the PR1/PR2 services if Arriva retain them?

It's far fetched, very far fetched in fact, but I would love all Darlington Solo's to be replaced by Enviro 300s and all Darlington MPD's to be replaced by Enviro 200s. Purely because they generally have nicer body work and nicer interiors, as for engines I don't know the difference. But as I said, this will never ever happen. I would very much like some Temsa's to come to Darlington too.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:55 pm)JoshP wrote You're all taking about the 23 being replaced with vehicles and the Solos being allocated to Darlington, but what vehicle type will be used on the 23? Is it definite the Temsa's from Redcar are being allocated to the 23? And if the Durham Park and Ride Solo's are displaced, where will they go and what do you think will be used on the PR1/PR2 services if Arriva retain them?

It's far fetched, very far fetched in fact, but I would love all Darlington Solo's to be replaced by Enviro 300s and all Darlington MPD's to be replaced by Enviro 200s. Purely because they generally have nicer body work and nicer interiors, as for engines I don't know the difference. But as I said, this will never ever happen. I would very much like some Temsa's to come to Darlington too.

I'd like Go North East to get the PR1/PR2. Out of interest, are the PR1/PR2 free to travel on?

(23 Feb 2014, 6:55 pm)JoshP wrote You're all taking about the 23 being replaced with vehicles and the Solos being allocated to Darlington, but what vehicle type will be used on the 23? Is it definite the Temsa's from Redcar are being allocated to the 23? And if the Durham Park and Ride Solo's are displaced, where will they go and what do you think will be used on the PR1/PR2 services if Arriva retain them?

It's far fetched, very far fetched in fact, but I would love all Darlington Solo's to be replaced by Enviro 300s and all Darlington MPD's to be replaced by Enviro 200s. Purely because they generally have nicer body work and nicer interiors, as for engines I don't know the difference. But as I said, this will never ever happen. I would very much like some Temsa's to come to Darlington too.

I think tyresmoke suggested direct investment rather than cascades - hence the debate about how it is so shocking.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:55 pm)JoshP wrote You're all taking about the 23 being replaced with vehicles and the Solos being allocated to Darlington, but what vehicle type will be used on the 23? Is it definite the Temsa's from Redcar are being allocated to the 23? And if the Durham Park and Ride Solo's are displaced, where will they go and what do you think will be used on the PR1/PR2 services if Arriva retain them?

It's far fetched, very far fetched in fact, but I would love all Darlington Solo's to be replaced by Enviro 300s and all Darlington MPD's to be replaced by Enviro 200s. Purely because they generally have nicer body work and nicer interiors, as for engines I don't know the difference. But as I said, this will never ever happen. I would very much like some Temsa's to come to Darlington too.

No, Temsas are likely to go onto the 56/57/57A.

As for Solos, Blyth and Darlington would again be the best bet. As for PR1/PR2, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the contract doesn't specify Eco-friendly vehicles (aka Hybrids).

(23 Feb 2014, 7:01 pm)Kuyoyo wrote No, Temsas are likely to go onto the 56/57/57A.

As for Solos, Blyth and Darlington would again be the best bet. As for PR1/PR2, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the contract doesn't specify Eco-friendly vehicles (aka Hybrids).

So all 12 Temsa cascades are going to Durham? And I think that's bound to happen with any bus company in the country to be as Eco friendly as possible. I don't mind hybrids, as long as the service is good and Arriva actually maintain the upkeep of the vehicles so they appeal to passengers and us enthusiasts.

(23 Feb 2014, 6:56 pm)Tom wrote I'd like Go North East to get the PR1/PR2. Out of interest, are the PR1/PR2 free to travel on?

I THINK they're free if you present a valid parking ticket, if you don't I again THINK it's £1 each way or £1.50 a return. Please don't quote me though I'm not 100% sure

(23 Feb 2014, 7:05 pm)JoshP wrote So all 12 Temsa cascades are going to Durham? And I think that's bound to happen with any bus company in the country to be as Eco friendly as possible. I don't mind hybrids, as long as the service is good and Arriva actually maintain the upkeep of the vehicles so they appeal to passengers and us enthusiasts.

I don't know a definite answer yet but they look likely to go to Durham.
Let's look back at what we know already

8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
6 Volvo B9TL -Ashington/Alnwick - Service X18
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec - along with 8 existing E400's refurbished, expected to be 7514-21)
5 VDL Pulsar - Durham - Service 23
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton - Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)

Along with 11 Volvo B7TL (ex London) which look likely to end up in Northumbria, though they want to try one on the X93 Middlesbrough - Scarborough to see how it handles the route, having spent all of their lives in London so far.

60 vehicles into the fleet will ultimately lead to 60 out, though this may change within a few each way depending on service changes or other contracts starting/finishing.
This will include all of the DAF SB220 vehicles, as well as any non DDA Dart MPD's. It will also see the end of the remaining high floor double deck vehicles (namely 7367, 7482, 7483).
There are more possible cascades rumoured, namely 5 Van Hool coaches from Green Line expected to go on service X15 to Berwick.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:27 pm)tyresmoke wrote I don't know a definite answer yet but they look likely to go to Durham.
Let's look back at what we know already

8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
6 Volvo B9TL -Ashington/Alnwick - Service X18
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec - along with 8 existing E400's refurbished, expected to be 7514-21)
5 VDL Pulsar - Durham - Service 23
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton - Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)

Along with 11 Volvo B7TL (ex London) which look likely to end up in Northumbria, though they want to try one on the X93 Middlesbrough - Scarborough to see how it handles the route, having spent all of their lives in London so far.

60 vehicles into the fleet will ultimately lead to 60 out, though this may change within a few each way depending on service changes or other contracts starting/finishing.
This will include all of the DAF SB220 vehicles, as well as any non DDA Dart MPD's. It will also see the end of the remaining high floor double deck vehicles (namely 7367, 7482, 7483).
There are more possible cascades rumoured, namely 5 Van Hool coaches from Green Line expected to go on service X15 to Berwick.

Kuyoyo?!?!?!?

(23 Feb 2014, 7:27 pm)tyresmoke wrote I don't know a definite answer yet but they look likely to go to Durham.
Let's look back at what we know already

8 VDL Pulsar - Jesmond - Service 306
6 Volvo B9TL -Ashington/Alnwick - Service X18
6 ADL Enviro 400 - Ashington - Service X21/X22 (Sapphire spec - along with 8 existing E400's refurbished, expected to be 7514-21)
5 VDL Pulsar - Durham - Service 23
14 VDL Pulsar - Redcar/Whitby - Service X3/X4/4 (Sapphire spec)
10 VDL Pulsar - Stockton - Service 5/5A (Sapphire spec)

Along with 11 Volvo B7TL (ex London) which look likely to end up in Northumbria, though they want to try one on the X93 Middlesbrough - Scarborough to see how it handles the route, having spent all of their lives in London so far.

60 vehicles into the fleet will ultimately lead to 60 out, though this may change within a few each way depending on service changes or other contracts starting/finishing.
This will include all of the DAF SB220 vehicles, as well as any non DDA Dart MPD's. It will also see the end of the remaining high floor double deck vehicles (namely 7367, 7482, 7483).
There are more possible cascades rumoured, namely 5 Van Hool coaches from Green Line expected to go on service X15 to Berwick.

Thanks for clearing it up slightly, with all these cascades and new vehicles it's complicated to keep up.

I was in London recently and the B7TL's are good runners, I'd like to see deckers return to Darlington.

By the looks of thing, each town/city Arriva serves it looks likely there will be at least 1 service that is Sapphire spec (I.e. Darlo/Durham 7, Redcar/Whitby 4,X4,X3, Boro 5/5A and Newcastle X21/22.

Are the Temsa's still up for an internal refurb or due to movements is this plan abandoned?

(23 Feb 2014, 7:35 pm)JoshP wrote Thanks for clearing it up slightly, with all these cascades and new vehicles it's complicated to keep up.

I was in London recently and the B7TL's are good runners, I'd like to see deckers return to Darlington.

By the looks of thing, each town/city Arriva serves it looks likely there will be at least 1 service that is Sapphire spec (I.e. Darlo/Durham 7, Redcar/Whitby 4,X4,X3, Boro 5/5A and Newcastle X21/22.

Are the Temsa's still up for an internal refurb or due to movements is this plan abandoned?

So when's the City of Sunderland getting a Sapphire-spec service?

(23 Feb 2014, 7:38 pm)Dan wrote So when's the City of Sunderland getting a Sapphire-spec service?

As off recently it's only now served by 1 major Arriva service and a couple of minor others and by what others are saying, it's having a direct investment in new vehicles but unlikely Sapphire spec.

When I say towns/cities I should say I mean with a massive Arriva influence. Sunderland is mostly GNE/Stagecoach territory even though it's where Arriva was founded and it's where the headquarters is.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:38 pm)Dan wrote So when's the City of Sunderland getting a Sapphire-spec service?

I should also add along with my last post, Darlington's Sapphire vehicles are only average. The seats/plug sockets are nice but the next stop announcements are useless. Some stops are not announced depending on which Pulsar you are on and the voice over announces each stop literally 2 seconds before the actual bus stop which is pointless because the bus flies past the stop as it is being announced. Yes sapphire Is an improvement but they need to update the signal/announcements and their computer systems as the screen seems glitchy. You're not missing out on much it's just a 'glorified' bus.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:49 pm)JoshP wrote I should also add along with my last post, Darlington's Sapphire vehicles are only average. The seats/plug sockets are nice but the next stop announcements are useless. Some stops are not announced depending on which Pulsar you are on and the voice over announces each stop literally 2 seconds before the actual bus stop which is pointless because the bus flies past the stop as it is being announced. Yes sapphire Is an improvement but they need to update the signal/announcements and their computer systems as the screen seems glitchy. You're not missing out on much it's just a 'glorified' bus.

Funny, both examples I've travelled on (one of Durham's and one of Darlington's) the next-stop announced the next stop as it left/passed the previous stop. My own issue was the WiFi not working on the Durham example and the Darlington one also had minor WiFi issues.

Very Interesting - When are the B7TL's going to Enter Service up here, I'm assuming there are already at Thorntons getting Refurbished etc

(23 Feb 2014, 7:52 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Funny, both examples I've travelled on (one of Durham's and one of Darlington's) the next-stop announced the next stop as it left/passed the previous stop. My own issue was the WiFi not working on the Durham example and the Darlington one also had minor WiFi issues.

The wifi is an issue too, most times it is a headache to connect to it. It's been rare when it's easy and simple to connect. Hopefully arriva can rectify these technology problems. I'm not slating them, it is the first time next stop announcements have been used on Arriva North East I think and they've given a good crack at it, it just needs adjusting so everything is smooth.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Very Interesting - When are the B7TL's going to Enter Service up here, I'm assuming there are already at Thorntons getting Refurbished etc

As I noted the other day, they are at Thornton's and photographs have emerged of them online.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:55 pm)NEBCD Malarkey wrote Very Interesting - When are the B7TL's going to Enter Service up here, I'm assuming there are already at Thorntons getting Refurbished etc

They are indeed, I listed the ones I believe are coming the other day.

(23 Feb 2014, 7:57 pm)JoshP wrote I'm not slating them, it is the first time next stop announcements have been used on Arriva North East I think and they've given a good crack at it, it just needs adjusting so everything is smooth.

There was talk of next stop been used on the X66 when it had coaches on, did that ever come off

(23 Feb 2014, 8:03 pm)citaro5284 wrote There was talk of next stop been used on the X66 when it had coaches on, did that ever come off

They fitted the screens to them (indeed they may still have them?) but I don't think it ever worked properly. The wi-fi however did work very well

(23 Feb 2014, 8:06 pm)tyresmoke wrote They fitted the screens to them (indeed they may still have them?) but I don't think it ever worked properly. The wi-fi however did work very well

I knew Hanover had came up, and fitted the kit, but was unsure if Arriva did their bit.

(23 Feb 2014, 8:06 pm)tyresmoke wrote They fitted the screens to them (indeed they may still have them?) but I don't think it ever worked properly. The wi-fi however did work very well

I never knew this and I must admit I never saw the screens, I did use the X66 quite often too. Quite interesting this fact. Was this as soon as the coaches were refurbished or just recently before the Omnicites?