(02 Apr 2026, 3:52 pm)morritt89 wrote When I used to do the 4274 scholars in Durham, the contract was for a minimum number of seats (40) and Euro 5 or better. I'm unsure if there was an age limit, but did use a Scania L94 a couple of times on the route and they were 54 plates. I remember once breaking down and someone sent one of the second hand Citaros which didn't have enough seats....

The council were regularly at the school checking (as were VOSA who were very thorough). Griersons also had a contract at the same school, not sure what their specification was but they were not Euro 5 or better and nor were the vehicles Disabled Friendly (whatever the regulations are).

Don't know if it is still the case, but service work in County Durham certainly used to have a 15 year age limit and a minimum seated capacity on each contract - unsure if any changes have been made in recent years to any contracts as some buses now exceed that age limit and some of Hodgsons services in Bishop Auckland now often use Sprinters when previously these would've fallen short on capacity.

I know Stagecoach can't use 83000 on the Sedgefield scholars to/from Wynyard as it doesn't have enough seats.

Think the Nexus contracts used to be minimum overall capacity (seating & standees) as quite a few were minimum 23 passengers on routes like the 168 which those Fiat Bluebirds were used on.

(04 Apr 2026, 4:55 pm)Jimmi wrote Don't know if it is still the case, but service work in County Durham certainly used to have a 15 year age limit and a minimum seated capacity on each contract - unsure if any changes have been made in recent years to any contracts as some buses now exceed that age limit and some of Hodgsons services in Bishop Auckland now often use Sprinters when previously these would've fallen short on capacity.

I know Stagecoach can't use 83000 on the Sedgefield scholars to/from Wynyard as it doesn't have enough seats.

Think the Nexus contracts used to be minimum overall capacity (seating & standees) as quite a few were minimum 23 passengers on routes like the 168 which those Fiat Bluebirds were used on.

I believe that is still the case with DCC as Stagecoach Hartlepool can’t use the 09 plates on the 59.  Saying that the 11 plates won’t be allowed from later this year/ early next year either.

Anyone know when the E200s are out?

(06 Apr 2026, 8:38 am)Retro Nero wrote Anyone know when the E200s are out?

Sometime this month according to our newsletter, driver familiarisation needs done first.

Both 8812 and 8813 are out today. I had an early morning X66 journey on 8812 (YX26 KFV).

https://ibb.co/MxRzrZnq

As are 8810 8811

Lets see how long they will keep them all on the X66 then until they float off onto the other Voltras

(15 Apr 2026, 3:30 pm)X919 WGR wrote Lets see how long they will keep them all on the X66 then until they float off onto the other Voltras

Can't get far one of them died this morning

(15 Apr 2026, 5:16 pm)Nerd4321 wrote Can't get far one of them died this morning

It didn't die...?

(15 Apr 2026, 5:52 pm)Liam Hall wrote It didn't die...?

What happened then as was at at Colliery Road for 10 minutes

(15 Apr 2026, 6:54 pm)Nerd4321 wrote What happened then as was at at Colliery Road for 10 minutes

It was swapped over as it was needed (not because of a fault tho)

(15 Apr 2026, 7:34 pm)Liam Hall wrote It was swapped over as it was needed (not because of a fault tho)

Now that sounds more authentic than we used to get back in the day, with the 'owld wing mirror incidents' excuse.

Have they replaced the older Versas in the fleet?

I for one applaud replacing busy double deck buses with taxpayer funded wholly unsuitable midi buses

(15 Apr 2026, 9:59 pm)Ambassador wrote I for one applaud replacing busy double deck buses with taxpayer funded wholly unsuitable midi buses

Had to do a double take when I saw how small the vehicle is. Looking forward to my trips to the Metrocentre over Christmas....

(16 Apr 2026, 6:05 am)Kimlfixit wrote Had to do a double take when I saw how small the vehicle is. Looking forward to my trips to the Metrocentre over Christmas....

Yeah its still silly that they chose the Middle Size spec that ADL offer for the E200EV's.
Seems like the always had a decent sized vehicle to cope with the Passenger levels back in the day.
This route has had Optare Deltas, Plaxton Prestiges, Wright Solars, Wright Solar Artics, Mercedes Citaro Artics, Streetlites, Eclipse 2's and the 200MMC's
Except for the Artics they all seemed the same size. Don't understand why they think getting a smaller spec is going to do anything great for this route. Especially when its been mentioned that the Weekend/Half Terms are going to have a LOT more people on the route and during the Christmas Season its not going to be able to cope.

Would love to think what was going through the Companies head placing the order for these.
They had put this in the News section for their website about the ADL's "Our new single-decker electric buses are electrifying our X66 service between Gateshead and the Metrocentre, which carried more than 900,000 passengers last year."
Seemed a lot of the time it was Double Deckers making the odd cameo on the X66 and towards the end of the Enviro 200MMC's on the route it seemed the Deckers were a lot more common.

All fine for the route being electrics since its a small route but its still the wrong bus choice imo

(16 Apr 2026, 9:52 am)X919 WGR wrote Yeah its still silly that they chose the Middle Size spec that ADL offer for the E200EV's.
Seems like the always had a decent sized vehicle to cope with the Passenger levels back in the day.
This route has had Optare Deltas, Plaxton Prestiges, Wright Solars, Wright Solar Artics, Mercedes Citaro Artics, Streetlites, Eclipse 2's and the 200MMC's
Except for the Artics they all seemed the same size. Don't understand why they think getting a smaller spec is going to do anything great for this route. Especially when its been mentioned that the Weekend/Half Terms are going to have a LOT more people on the route and during the Christmas Season its not going to be able to cope.

Would love to think what was going through the Companies head placing the order for these.
They had put this in the News section for their website about the ADL's "Our new single-decker electric buses are electrifying our X66 service between Gateshead and the Metrocentre, which carried more than 900,000 passengers last year."
Seemed a lot of the time it was Double Deckers making the odd cameo on the X66 and towards the end of the Enviro 200MMC's on the route it seemed the Deckers were a lot more common.

All fine for the route being electrics since its a small route but its still the wrong bus choice imo

tbf, I'd say the deckers were more because the singles were needed elsewhere.

Since the 51/52/93/94 upgrade to deckers, there's not a whole load of spares there (or wasn't until recently anyway) and they must be on the 49/49A/67/69/96 otherwise you'll end up with new open top.

(16 Apr 2026, 9:52 am)X919 WGR wrote Yeah its still silly that they chose the Middle Size spec that ADL offer for the E200EV's.
Seems like the always had a decent sized vehicle to cope with the Passenger levels back in the day.
This route has had Optare Deltas, Plaxton Prestiges, Wright Solars, Wright Solar Artics, Mercedes Citaro Artics, Streetlites, Eclipse 2's and the 200MMC's
Except for the Artics they all seemed the same size. Don't understand why they think getting a smaller spec is going to do anything great for this route. Especially when its been mentioned that the Weekend/Half Terms are going to have a LOT more people on the route and during the Christmas Season its not going to be able to cope.

Would love to think what was going through the Companies head placing the order for these.
They had put this in the News section for their website about the ADL's "Our new single-decker electric buses are electrifying our X66 service between Gateshead and the Metrocentre, which carried more than 900,000 passengers last year."
Seemed a lot of the time it was Double Deckers making the odd cameo on the X66 and towards the end of the Enviro 200MMC's on the route it seemed the Deckers were a lot more common.

All fine for the route being electrics since its a small route but its still the wrong bus choice imo

Yes I agree with the size argument. They would be more suited to possibly Deptford  or even the V1,V2  or V3 routes out of consett. Obviously the infrastructure would need to be added

Everyone knocking the size of the vehicle, these have 33 seats and with a PVR of 4 Buses, that's 264 seats per hour at an Every 8 Minute Frequency.

I'm sure Go North East will have checked all the data for passenger loadings before making a decision on what to purchase and more than likely worked out the average number of passengers per hour, some journey's on the X66 are quieter than others and yes the loading fluctuate and are somewhat unpredictable at times however I am sure these will manage.

My only concern is continuing to serve stops in Teams and Dunston to/from MetroCentre and Gateshead as I have always felt it should be a Non-Stop Express, reverting to the latter would alleviate capacity problems however you'd likely get complaints from those who do use it to/from Gateshead as there are no other alternatives.

(16 Apr 2026, 3:29 pm)Malarkey wrote I'm sure Go North East will have checked all the data for passenger loadings before making a decision

Is this in the same way that they checked all of the data and bought Electroliners which can't do a 21 board?

(16 Apr 2026, 3:29 pm)Malarkey wrote Everyone knocking the size of the vehicle, these have 33 seats and with a PVR of 4 Buses, that's 264 seats per hour at an Every 8 Minute Frequency.

I'm sure Go North East will have checked all the data for passenger loadings before making a decision on what to purchase and more than likely worked out the average number of passengers per hour, some journey's on the X66 are quieter than others and yes the loading fluctuate and are somewhat unpredictable at times however I am sure these will manage.

My only concern is continuing to serve stops in Teams and Dunston to/from MetroCentre and Gateshead as I have always felt it should be a Non-Stop Express, reverting to the latter would alleviate capacity problems however you'd likely get complaints from those who do use it to/from Gateshead as there are no other alternatives.

Ain't the PVR only 4 during Saturday's & School Holidays. Im sure its not a PVR of 4 during any other time

---

(16 Apr 2026, 5:01 pm)PH - BQA wrote Is this in the same way that they checked all of the data and bought Electroliners which can't do a 21 board?

BSIP be ending soon. Wonder if the 21 will get its 7 mins cut. Stagecoach already losing the 1/30/31/36 timetable changes

I made two trips on the X66 with the new buses, both trips were standing room only. This was also taking into account all four buses were running on time & operating without delays at the time of travelling.

I was thinking with Saturday's typically being a very busy day for retail at Metrocentre, whether we will see allocations swapped with some of the Double Decker's from the 58 to help with capacity, if the E200EVs prove unsuitable for typical Saturday loading numbers?

(16 Apr 2026, 5:37 pm)Nerd4321 wrote Ain't the PVR only 4 during Saturday's & School Holidays. Im sure its not a PVR of 4 during any other time

---

BSIP be ending soon. Wonder if the 21 will get its 7 mins cut. Stagecoach already losing the 1/30/31/36 timetable changes

IMO, them routes mentioned shouldn't be getting any BSIP money.

As much as they get pelters on somethings, Arriva Northumbria & Northumberland CC have shown how the money should be spent and not on 'goldmines'.

From what I recall, the omnicities lasted 2 months on the 21 before they got hooked, predict the same

(16 Apr 2026, 9:07 pm)Ambassador wrote From what I recall, the omnicities lasted 2 months on the 21 before they got hooked, predict the same

Nah, they lasted more than 2 months. Pretty sure about that
But... In the past, we've seen buses tied to a route because of funding (remember the knackered Purple Solars, hammered to an inch of their life and a bit beyond because DCC paid for an emissions upgrade?).
It would be interesting to see whether these vehicles and the X66 have a similar condition.

(16 Apr 2026, 8:13 pm)S830OFT wrote I made two trips on the X66 with the new buses, both trips were standing room only. This was also taking into account all four buses were running on time & operating without delays at the time of travelling.

I was thinking with Saturday's typically being a very busy day for retail at Metrocentre, whether we will see allocations swapped with some of the Double Decker's from the 58 to help with capacity, if the E200EVs prove unsuitable for typical Saturday loading numbers?

This is exactly why they have arrived in Voltra livery with no sub branding, get to the weekends and the Voltra deckers will be allocated, with the 200's on other services.

(16 Apr 2026, 8:41 pm)L469 YVK wrote IMO, them routes mentioned shouldn't be getting any BSIP money.

As much as they get pelters on somethings, Arriva Northumbria & Northumberland CC have shown how the money should be spent and not on 'goldmines'.

I think how best to use the BSIP funding was a really tricky policy decision. It was unclear what successor funding would become available, with every reason to think it would be at a considerably lower rate. So a challenge to decide how to do things that would result in a sustainable continuing benefit. 

The services that Northumberland has used BSIP for seem mostly things that will always require indefinite funding. Things like services to Wooler or between Morpeth and the airport fills gaps in the network, and will find new passengers, but it would be miraculous if they ever got close to covering their costs. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but it means that if there is no successor funding the services have no future at all, so the new users would be left high and dry. 

The "kickstart" things Nexus did with GNE and Stagecoach is a different strategy that matches the time-limited profile of the BSIP grant. Temporary funding to rebuild frequencies that had been eroded during Covid, with the hope that they would regain the patronage that had made those higher frequencies viable pre-Covid. I'd be surprised if the operators were not required to contribute, too, and these will have been the services that in their commercial judgement were most likely to succeed. Even if for whatever reason the higher frequency can't be sustained, at least passengers won't be left with no service. 

Perhaps a case of "horses for course", and both are reasonable strategies, reflecting the different circumstances of Northumberland and Nexus?

(16 Apr 2026, 10:27 pm)Busadvocate wrote I think how best to use the BSIP funding was a really tricky policy decision. It was unclear what successor funding would become available, with every reason to think it would be at a considerably lower rate. So a challenge to decide how to do things that would result in a sustainable continuing benefit. 

The services that Northumberland has used BSIP for seem mostly things that will always require indefinite funding. Things like services to Wooler or between Morpeth and the airport fills gaps in the network, and will find new passengers, but it would be miraculous if they ever got close to covering their costs. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but it means that if there is no successor funding the services have no future at all, so the new users would be left high and dry. 

The "kickstart" things Nexus did with GNE and Stagecoach is a different strategy that matches the time-limited profile of the BSIP grant. Temporary funding to rebuild frequencies that had been eroded during Covid, with the hope that they would regain the patronage that had made those higher frequencies viable pre-Covid. I'd be surprised if the operators were not required to contribute, too, and these will have been the services that in their commercial judgement were most likely to succeed. Even if for whatever reason the higher frequency can't be sustained, at least passengers won't be left with no service. 

Perhaps a case of "horses for course", and both are reasonable strategies, reflecting the different circumstances of Northumberland and Nexus?

Problem is now that operators know that authorities have BSIP funding they can go with their begging bowl not just for the least profitable/ socially necessary services but also for increases (or preventing decreases) on existing services which I would imagine do well enough to justify a commercial maintenance of or even increase in frequency/PVR albeit perhaps at a slight detriment (but not a loss) to the operator. And thus now this BSIP money is running out they're all putting them back to the frequencies they were on before, probably because they're holding out on the authorities giving them some more dough, when the whole idea was that the frequency increase would generate enough demand to support itself commercially going forward. Imo BSIP should be used to cover socially necessary services or to introduce new services, not to enhance the most profitable routes when really this is something operators should be doing themselves in order to build back patronage in a now 7-year post-Covid world. 

There's just no incentive for going out on a limb in the industry atm or doing more than the 'bare minimum' particularly with franchising on the horizon (unless you count the X1 going to Haswell Plough lol). Let's be honest I can't imagine many people who currently own a car are thinking hmm I'm gonna sell my car and start getting the bus, no matter how much fuel prices may increase and operators may buy shiny new vehicles etc etc. The bus is treated as something to serve those who don't have a car, and thus a social service, yet is run as a for profit business. One thing I do hope franchising might bring is the chance for the bus network to support itself and thus more profitable routes cross-subsidise less profitable ones, without all the focus being on profit, with any extra cash getting invested back into bus priority etc. At the very least franchising should make things more consistent and easier to use and might actually intrigue people enough to tempt them to give the bus a go if they don't already. Certainly given things like strikes at GNE, vehicle issues at Arriva Ashington etc in recent history I'm sure there are plenty who will have had not so fond memories of getting the bus and just had enough in the end and won't be tempted back now they're in the car, not while said operator who's let them down are still running the service.

(16 Apr 2026, 10:27 pm)Busadvocate wrote I think how best to use the BSIP funding was a really tricky policy decision. It was unclear what successor funding would become available, with every reason to think it would be at a considerably lower rate. So a challenge to decide how to do things that would result in a sustainable continuing benefit. 

The services that Northumberland has used BSIP for seem mostly things that will always require indefinite funding. Things like services to Wooler or between Morpeth and the airport fills gaps in the network, and will find new passengers, but it would be miraculous if they ever got close to covering their costs. Nothing wrong with that in principle, but it means that if there is no successor funding the services have no future at all, so the new users would be left high and dry. 

The "kickstart" things Nexus did with GNE and Stagecoach is a different strategy that matches the time-limited profile of the BSIP grant. Temporary funding to rebuild frequencies that had been eroded during Covid, with the hope that they would regain the patronage that had made those higher frequencies viable pre-Covid. I'd be surprised if the operators were not required to contribute, too, and these will have been the services that in their commercial judgement were most likely to succeed. Even if for whatever reason the higher frequency can't be sustained, at least passengers won't be left with no service. 

Perhaps a case of "horses for course", and both are reasonable strategies, reflecting the different circumstances of Northumberland and Nexus?

Disagree personally on this one, even known I get what you say in principal.

No-one and I mean literally no-one is going to go to the bus stop and think 'OMG I ain't using the 1 it's every 10 minutes! Now if it was every 7.5 minutes I'll 100% use it'

It's just absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things, so any growth will be something different.

Hourly services, which used to be every 30 minutes, or 30 minutes services which used to be more frequent, think the likes of the Gateshead 22, Durham 56, Birtley 82, Middlesbrough X10 or the Consett X45 then it's a different ballgame because that's a massive increase and a game changer. These now are all pretty much infrequent services and all 5 of them used to be more frequent pre Covid and imo it would make sense. 

---

Extra note, if you want to increase stuff like the 1 frequency, the money would be better doing bus measures, if you can save 7 minutes every board while it struggles around Heaton; then those time savings alone could boost the frequency anyway and it's a long term fix. The faster journey times also being a positive and something that would boost numbers.

(Yesterday, 8:39 am)Storx wrote No-one and I mean literally no-one is going to go to the bus stop and think 'OMG I ain't using the 1 it's every 10 minutes! Now if it was every 7.5 minutes I'll 100% use it'

( this should really be a in a different thread about BSIP and frequency, as its nothing to do with electric buses!)

You may not beleive it, but high frequency definitely DOES generate extra passengers. It's partly because if the service is not running perfectly (roadworks? unusual traffic congestion? a breakdown?) there is less likely to be a significant gap between buses. As with many other things in life, in general people are more influenced by their worst experiences than the normal service. (That is why the shocking level of missing buses that has occurred from various depots/ various operators in recent years has been so damaging). 

If services were able to run like clockwork, every 10mins would be enough to reach the sweet spot, so you are right to point to other things that could be done. 

I agree that, say, changing from hourly to every 30 mins has a bigger effect for passengers; but the fact that the service was only hourly hints that services like that have lower overall passenger numbers. Doubling the frequency basically doubles the costs, but you don't get double the passengers, so its not a case where the service is going to be viable at the higher frequency. (This isn't a point about commercially driven operators - the arithmetic is the same if/when the services are publicly owned.)