I'm still shocked as to why Arriva never gave the B9TL any thought well before the Euro 5 deadline. They would have been excellent for the X10, X11, X18, X21, X22 and X93. They are very powerful vehicles and the handling is great. Braking and gear changes are very smooth.

Can go along with what Davey is saying about the B9TL's. I do Newcastle regularly on the TTX and have never had any bother. Think it's helped by the quality of maintainance from the team at GNE Riverside.
Can go along with what has been said about the engineering team at Redcar? It's been the same for years with constant breakdowns, failures to meet it's PVR and so on; even an intake of New fleet (Temsas and Pulsars) didn't help. Watch this space if the new management sort it out.
Finally. Ecocities on the X93? How would that help with the overcrowding situation?

(02 Apr 2014, 7:47 pm)robisdave15 wrote Can go along with what Davey is saying about the B9TL's. I do Newcastle regularly on the TTX and have never had any bother. Think it's helped by the quality of maintainance from the team at GNE Riverside.
Can go along with what has been said about the engineering team at Redcar? It's been the same for years with constant breakdowns, failures to meet it's PVR and so on; even an intake of New fleet (Temsas and Pulsars) didn't help. Watch this space if the new management sort it out.
Finally. Ecocities on the X93? How would that help with the overcrowding situation?

Indeed, I'd say that having 18 of them has helped too. Anyway, Ecocities would be no good, you need power. To be quite frankly honest, the only bus that could cope with the X93 would the the few Palatine 1's kicking around. Arriva's policy of buying 'eco friendly' and 'fuel efficient' double deck buses has backfired well and truly. They're good for the likes of the Quorums, 308 and to an extent, the X10 and X11. That's it! An engine that is designed for your typical 39, 40, 62 and 63 throughout Newcastle, Killingworth, Wallsend and the West End is absolutely no good for anything more than stated above despite the so called better fuel economy. I'm not anti ADL or VDL in terms of the DB300 but a bus can only cope with what it was designed for.

(02 Apr 2014, 6:09 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote I'm still shocked as to why Arriva never gave the B9TL any thought well before the Euro 5 deadline. They would have been excellent for the X10, X11, X18, X21, X22 and X93. They are very powerful vehicles and the handling is great. Braking and gear changes are very smooth.

How do you know they didn't give it any thought? All those services combined would require 37 vehicles, based on the following requirements:
X10/X11 PVR 12, X18 PVR 6, X21 PVR 8, X22 PVR 6, X93 PVR 5.

I'd imagine the bus industry is the same as any other, and you can't just go around placing a massive order for new vehicles, without a cast iron business case and forecast to show the money is going to be earned back.

It's just not realistic.

(02 Apr 2014, 8:15 pm)aureolin wrote How do you know they didn't give it any thought? All those services combined would require 37 vehicles, based on the following requirements:
X10/X11 PVR 12, X18 PVR 6, X21 PVR 8, X22 PVR 6, X93 PVR 5.

I'd imagine the bus industry is the same as any other, and you can't just go around placing a massive order for new vehicles, without a cast iron business case and forecast to show the money is going to be earned back.

It's just not realistic.

Ok, the X93 might be questionable but certainly the other services would've benefited from the B9TL for the following reasons despite the increased purchase cost and slightly higher fuel consumption than the Cummins ISBe:

- Powerful engines for more speed and better reliability
- In relation to the above, excellent on hills
- Good handling and smooth steering
- Very smooth braking and acceleration
- Smooth gear changes
- Local service centre in Durham
- Good fuel capacity
- Better patronage because of better reliability and fewer breakdowns
- Happy drivers

And why do you think GNE has ordered 67 of them since 2011?

(02 Apr 2014, 8:15 pm)aureolin wrote How do you know they didn't give it any thought? All those services combined would require 37 vehicles, based on the following requirements:
X10/X11 PVR 12, X18 PVR 6, X21 PVR 8, X22 PVR 6, X93 PVR 5.

I'd imagine the bus industry is the same as any other, and you can't just go around placing a massive order for new vehicles, without a cast iron business case and forecast to show the money is going to be earned back.

It's just not realistic.

X93 has a seasonal PVR difference - PVR 5 on the current (winter) timetable, increasing in the summer (previously PVR 7, rumour is this year will see a PVR of 8 instead).

X21/X22 for the same reason - hence why there's only 6 new E400s on order for the route as part of the 'Sapphire' upgrade with the remaining 8 being made up of refurbished examples (I would guess a further couple will also be treated to give spares).

(02 Apr 2014, 8:23 pm)Kuyoyo wrote X93 has a seasonal PVR difference - PVR 5 on the current (winter) timetable, increasing in the summer (previously PVR 7, rumour is this year will see a PVR of 8 instead).

X21/X22 for the same reason - hence why there's only 6 new E400s on order for the route as part of the 'Sapphire' upgrade with the remaining 8 being made up of refurbished examples (I would guess a further couple will also be treated to give spares).

There are several on order throughout the UK this year with the DB300 no longer being produced.

I know I'm in Arriva land here but just have to compare the TTX X9/10 and now X7 against the X93? Yes the TTX struggled for somewhere but has established itself and the promotion/reliability afforded to the services by GNE is now being rewarded; investment in the B9TL's was a masterstroke. Here on the X93 it would be a risk to seriously promote the service has it has suffered for years with a mish mash of vehicles, inappropriate or otherwise; not only that the majority of services on the route are operated by vehicles based and maintained at s depot some 20 miles away from the principal operating area. When we have vehicles operating on the route as reliable as what they are, sitting at the roadside on some desolate roadside waiting for a replacement vehicle/engineer to turn out is not really the best advertisement!
Then we had, or have the overcrowding issues to deal with? Again not the best way of promoting a service by shoehorning passengers on to an elderly Prestige or even worse, MOD! Why the management at Arriva take the attitude "we can't run extra vehicles", beats me; then there is the other attitude of not being able to provide replacement vehicles to cover breakdowns? Just take a bus of the 27's, not really gonna be missed, surely?
Now we're about to start the new peak season with a collection of vehicles that are already proving to be unreliable....!

(02 Apr 2014, 8:28 pm)robisdave15 wrote I know I'm in Arriva land here but just have to compare the TTX X9/10 and now X7 against the X93? Yes the TTX struggled for somewhere but has established itself and the promotion/reliability afforded to the services by GNE is now being rewarded; investment in the B9TL's was a masterstroke. Here on the X93 it would be a risk to seriously promote the service has it has suffered for years with a mish mash of vehicles, inappropriate or otherwise; not only that the majority of services on the route are operated by vehicles based and maintained at s depot some 20 miles away from the principal operating area. When we have vehicles operating on the route as reliable as what they are, sitting at the roadside on some desolate roadside waiting for a replacement vehicle/engineer to turn out is not really the best advertisement!
Then we had, or have the overcrowding issues to deal with? Again not the best way of promoting a service by shoehorning passengers on to an elderly Prestige or even worse, MOD! Why the management at Arriva take the attitude "we can't run extra vehicles", beats me; then there is the other attitude of not being able to provide replacement vehicles to cover breakdowns? Just take a bus of the 27's, not really gonna be missed, surely?
Now we're about to start the new peak season with a collection of vehicles that are already proving to be unreliable....!

Now you realty are showing delusion - X93 are operated jointly by Whitby and Redcar depot in the peak season, while the 27/27a operated out of Stockton depot. Pulling a bus off the 27/27a to cover an X93 won't happen - for a start, Cadets to Whitby (27 is now officially Cadet), and yes they will be missed, especially pulling the vehicle off the 27a during the week considering that's also removing a vehicle for a few hours off the 9 as well. There's also the small matter of tachographs - non-tacho'd vehicles are fine if you're only trying to cover Middlesbrough-Guisborough but that's more-or-less as far as you could go with that.

Whoops! Didn't think through the tacho thing did I? Yes I know the X93 is operated by Whitby/Redcar (sadly as far as Redcar are concerned), end of the day it!s an Arriva service and all this depit accountability gets wearing!

(02 Apr 2014, 8:48 pm)robisdave15 wrote Whoops! Didn't think through the tacho thing did I? Yes I know the X93 is operated by Whitby/Redcar (sadly as far as Redcar are concerned), end of the day it!s an Arriva service and all this depit accountability gets wearing!

Stockton did cover an X93 as far as Guisborough last summer using a spare vehicle/driver but (as far as I know) it only happened once, and it was met at Guisborough by a decker to continue the journey to Scarborough.

The X93 will be 8 vehicles this summer, with most journeys running to a standard clockface timetable from both ends as far I am aware, for the majority of the day.

You see then that it can, and more importantly, should be done, irregardless of the tacho issue. I''ve known times, and only recently, when I've been waiting at MBS to travel home and it's being announced that certain X93 trips will operate due to breakdowns, the only advice being offered is to wait for the next service. I know it's not easy/practical to conjure up a replacement bus/driver but for a service like the X93 I think it's something that should be considered.

(02 Apr 2014, 9:19 pm)robisdave15 wrote You see then that it can, and more importantly, should be done, irregardless of the tacho issue. I''ve known times, and only recently, when I've been waiting at MBS to travel home and it's being announced that certain X93 trips will operate due to breakdowns, the only advice being offered is to wait for the next service. I know it's not easy/practical to conjure up a replacement bus/driver but for a service like the X93 I think it's something that should be considered.

and that is the sole reason I have never used the service.
Imagine being stuck at the other end, because a bus hasn't turned up due to a breakdown or drivers hours issues?

(02 Apr 2014, 9:19 pm)robisdave15 wrote You see then that it can, and more importantly, should be done, irregardless of the tacho issue. I''ve known times, and only recently, when I've been waiting at MBS to travel home and it's being announced that certain X93 trips will operate due to breakdowns, the only advice being offered is to wait for the next service. I know it's not easy/practical to conjure up a replacement bus/driver but for a service like the X93 I think it's something that should be considered.

Stockton don't have any buses with calibrated tacho's and nor do we have drivers on EU hours and therefore any spare vehicle/driver would have to come from Redcar to cover a full length journey. Stockton can cover to Guisborough to meet a replacement vehicle as stated this can and does happen if need be. All depends on Stockton having spare capacity though. Redcar/Whitby provide a spare vehicle/driver in Middlesbrough now anyway so there shouldn't be many issues.

Just the point I'm making? There are some shocking things I've heard and witnessed. There!'s the hanging around at MBS when services fail and nobody can be bothered to sort anything; there are the hours spent at the roadside between Scarborough and Whitby while the fitters travel out from Redcar; vehicles that can scarcely climb out of Robin Hoods Bay...it's not fantasy or a moan, you just have to travel on the service, speak to the passengers and drivers, who I hasten to add, do an admirable job all things considered. Promote the service? That's easy? Get some vehicles that can make it from A to B and do it regularly!!

(02 Apr 2014, 9:44 pm)robisdave15 wrote Just the point I'm making? There are some shocking things I've heard and witnessed. There!'s the hanging around at MBS when services fail and nobody can be bothered to sort anything; there are the hours spent at the roadside between Scarborough and Whitby while the fitters travel out from Redcar; vehicles that can scarcely climb out of Robin Hoods Bay...it's not fantasy or a moan, you just have to travel on the service, speak to the passengers and drivers, who I hasten to add, do an admirable job all things considered. Promote the service? That's easy? Get some vehicles that can make it from A to B and do it regularly!!

Couldn't agree more, which obviously everyone is hoping the vehicles will be sorted before the summer kicks off this year. Obviously we're still in the testing phase as we go towards Easter so they need to hurry up.

Afraid I can't share your confidence Scott. Been there / done that / sat by the roadside, waited at the bus stop to often! Anything Redcar are involved with must be treat with contempt. Sorry to be negative.

The Omnis pull well but the Polish bodywork rattles a lot and the door opening and closing can be slow and also some problems with emergency open/close. These should be the things that should be looked at when re furbed But I cannot see it happening. Also does anyone Know if the re seating of the Temsas is still going ahead

Far as I've heard the plan for re-seating the Temsas has been shelved, a shame in a way because 4720 is in fine form on the X93 this morning,

(03 Apr 2014, 8:04 am)upt50k wrote The Omnis pull well but the Polish bodywork rattles a lot and the door opening and closing can be slow and also some problems with emergency open/close. These should be the things that should be looked at when re furbed But I cannot see it happening. Also does anyone Know if the re seating of the Temsas is still going ahead

You're spot on there, the Omnis are superb to drive though I know quite a few drivers who don't like them?! I had one on 15s on Tuesday after my Pulsar developed a fault and the doors were far too slow for a town route like that, but they're great on the 5s which we tend to use them on.

As said the re-seating of the Temsas was found to be too awkward and therefore expensive - owing to the way they're anchored I believe

(02 Apr 2014, 8:28 pm)robisdave15 wrote I know I'm in Arriva land here but just have to compare the TTX X9/10 and now X7 against the X93? Yes the TTX struggled for somewhere but has established itself and the promotion/reliability afforded to the services by GNE is now being rewarded; investment in the B9TL's was a masterstroke. Here on the X93 it would be a risk to seriously promote the service has it has suffered for years with a mish mash of vehicles, inappropriate or otherwise; not only that the majority of services on the route are operated by vehicles based and maintained at s depot some 20 miles away from the principal operating area. When we have vehicles operating on the route as reliable as what they are, sitting at the roadside on some desolate roadside waiting for a replacement vehicle/engineer to turn out is not really the best advertisement!
Then we had, or have the overcrowding issues to deal with? Again not the best way of promoting a service by shoehorning passengers on to an elderly Prestige or even worse, MOD! Why the management at Arriva take the attitude "we can't run extra vehicles", beats me; then there is the other attitude of not being able to provide replacement vehicles to cover breakdowns? Just take a bus of the 27's, not really gonna be missed, surely?
Now we're about to start the new peak season with a collection of vehicles that are already proving to be unreliable....!

Totally agree.

Going back to what Scott said about the Ommnis, probably one of the best vehicles that we've had and how certain drivers can dislike them takes a bit of believing but is understandable given I use "Stockton" driven services quite a lot!
The Pulsars are good and well suited to the work they do; gonna be interresting to see just what the Streetlires are like and how they perform?
Can't comment on anything Redcar might be up to today? Came into 'Boro on a fit 4720/X93 this morning but think that was more down to the driver than the vehicle?

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/Sapphire-is-coming/

Today on VOSA.

PB0002032/252 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted: Operating between Blyth and Newcastle given service number X5 effective from 25-May-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

PB0002032/333 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Thropton and Morpeth given service number 14 effective from 20-Apr-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

PB0002032/447 - ARRIVA NORTHUMBRIA LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted: Operating between Newcastle and Belford given service number X16 effective from 24-May-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

PB0002717/54 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Variation Accepted by SN: Operating between Darlington and Barnard Castle given service number 76A/75/76 effective from 12-May-2014. To amend Route and Timetable.

(Extra journey for One Direction gig)

PB0002717/365 - ARRIVA DURHAM COUNTY LTD, 1 ADMIRAL WAY, DOXFORD INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS PARK, SUNDERLAND, SR3 3XP

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Stadium Of Light
Finish Point: Durham
Via:
Service Number: 24
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 28-MAY-2014
Other Details: one off journey which will leave 30 minutes after the end of the concert and may run later than shown

Seen that the "enhanced" services on the X93 are being promoted on the buses now? Wonder just what these are going to be?

(04 Apr 2014, 8:33 pm)robisdave15 wrote Seen that the "enhanced" services on the X93 are being promoted on the buses now? Wonder just what these are going to be?

Preferably buses that can actually handle the route for starters!

Wanted to say that but thought it might cause a fuss? 7485/88 and 7494 have sent to Redcar for that reason but have spent more time VOR than on the road. Think we'll be on with Temsas again?

2 more Enviro 400s arriving tomorrow to help bolster the double deck allocation whilst these Volvo B7TLs are sorted out. I am told some are going back to Ashington to be run in properly. Might have been a good idea in the first place but hey what do we know, still they seem to have done alright on the 81....

Looking at the Northumbria orders according to PPT from Arriva, this is what is being invested in Ashington Depot this year:

- 5 new double deck buses for the X18 (B9TL which is unlikely or E400)
- 8 new double deck buses for the X21 and X22 (E400's with assumption of 7514 to 7521 also getting upgraded). That will be 14 plus 2 spare.
- 3 new single deck buses for service 35 (assuming VDL SB200 PULSAR 2)

Then what could happen as a result:

- 7505 to 09 and 7511 will upgrade the X14 and X20
- 55 reg coaches for the X15
- Three 57 reg lowlanders making the PVR upto 6 on the 35 and 35a. The best of 4 will act as a spare with 7530 and 7531 for the X18, X21 and X22.
- The two Spectras would be withdrawn and replaced by B10BLE'S or DAF DB250 ALX400'S or Lowlanders for the 30 and 34. Another 1 or 2 from the above would be allocated to the 100.

(04 Apr 2014, 9:12 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote Looking at the Northumbria orders according to PPT from Arriva, this is what is being invested in Ashington Depot this year:

- 5 new double deck buses for the X18 (B9TL which is unlikely or E400)
- 8 new double deck buses for the X21 and X22 (E400's with assumption of 7514 to 7521 also getting upgraded). That will be 14 plus 2 spare.
- 3 new single deck buses for service 35 (assuming VDL SB200 PULSAR 2)

Then what could happen as a result:

- 7505 to 09 and 7511 will upgrade the X14 and X20
- 55 reg coaches for the X15
- Three 57 reg lowlanders making the PVR upto 6 on the 35 and 35a. The best of 4 will act as a spare with 7530 and 7531 for the X18, X21 and X22.
- The two Spectras would be withdrawn and replaced by B10BLE'S or DAF DB250 ALX400'S or Lowlanders for the 30 and 34. Another 1 or 2 from the above would be allocated to the 100.

Streetlite more than likely - I wonder if Arriva will ever go for Versas or Citaros in the future?