(27 Apr 2014, 11:51 am)Marcus wrote I've heard one or two of the older driver's who have started in the 90s that have compared the B10s to the Nationals. If you check out the NNRG Facebook page they are using their 4710 on a rerun of the 724 on 31 August starting at South Burns and going to Bishop.

Do you have a link?

(27 Apr 2014, 12:32 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Do you have a link?

Certainly mate;

https://www.facebook.com/NorthernNationa...ationGroup

p.s. It mentions a lot about the late Ian Hignett and his work with them, and also they are having a minutes silence at the Metrocentre Rally to remember him according to one of their posts.

(27 Apr 2014, 12:54 pm)Marcus wrote Certainly mate;

https://www.facebook.com/NorthernNationa...ationGroup

p.s. It mentions a lot about the late Ian Hignett and his work with them, and also they are having a minutes silence at the Metrocentre Rally to remember him according to one of their posts.

Wouldn't mind a ride on it again.
Used it quite a bit when it was in service and it always seemed a good bus.

Have seen it out and about, but never had the chance to ride it since restoration.

Cheers for the link

(27 Apr 2014, 1:45 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Wouldn't mind a ride on it again.
Used it quite a bit when it was in service and it always seemed a good bus.

Have seen it out and about, but never had the chance to ride it since restoration.

Cheers for the link

No problem . I was about seven when it was withdrawn from service. For some reason I find their Facebook posts quite confusing; did they buy 4681 and now is that masquerading as 4710, or did they get both?, or was 4710 scrapped and 4681 saved? I can't get my head around it.

(27 Apr 2014, 1:49 pm)Marcus wrote No problem . I was about seven when it was withdrawn from service. For some reason I find their Facebook posts quite confusing; did they buy 4681 and now is that masquerading as 4710, or did they get both?, or was 4710 scrapped and 4681 saved? I can't get my head around it.

Both.
It wont let me copy the text, but 4681 and 4710 are in ownership, with 4710 being passed over from NEBPT last year.

It tells you in the about/description page about the plans for both vehicles.
Not sure how upto date it is though.

(27 Apr 2014, 9:27 am)Robert wrote There really isn't any need for a Diamond upgrade just yet as the Citaros cope very well on the Diamond services. Its just the maintenance side of things that isn't as suggested before by Dan. The Lime and Toon Link however, because of the buses they currently use (or most of them in the Toon Link case) are very unreliable and its the buses that are the problem and not the Maintenance.

With the lime I have to say that 4850-4855 are the worst. I don't know whether to include 4896 in that as I don't know which Lime a Chester-le-Street spare is replacing so I just assume its the older 6 buses on the route.

But how many times do you see a non-Lime branded vehicle on the 8 or 78? I still use the 8 quite often, and it's very rare that a branded B10 doesn't turn up. I'd doubt they'd be seen as very unreliable given that?

(27 Apr 2014, 2:15 pm)aureolin wrote But how many times do you see a non-Lime branded vehicle on the 8 or 78? I still use the 8 quite often, and it's very rare that a branded B10 doesn't turn up. I'd doubt they'd be seen as very unreliable given that?

I'd say at least one unbranded vehicle on the Lime every couple of days, and it's normally one of Stanley's. Also worth mentioning, Stanley put more non-Lime branded vehicles on like Diamonds and Red Kites. I occasionally see Whey Aye Five 0 OmniCities on the Chester runs, but I haven't seen any other branded vehicles on it in a long time. Before the Versas arrived on the Worm a load of DAFs would get used in the event of a single decker spare being unavailable. I rarely get Northern spares on it, and after the 21 I use it practically daily.

(27 Apr 2014, 2:31 pm)Marcus wrote I'd say at least one unbranded vehicle on the Lime every couple of days, and it's normally one of Stanley's. Also worth mentioning, Stanley put more non-Lime branded vehicles on like Diamonds and Red Kites. I occasionally see Whey Aye Five 0 OmniCities on the Chester runs, but I haven't seen any other branded vehicles on it in a long time. Before the Versas arrived on the Worm a load of DAFs would get used in the event of a single decker spare being unavailable. I rarely get Northern spares on it, and after the 21 I use it practically daily.

Its the complete opposite for me. Most of the time it is Chester-Le-Street spares that I see rather than Stanley spares. A Red Kite and a Diamond bus covering for a Lime is far better than a Venture SR like we have seen in the past but these buses have probably been placed on because of lack of spare single decker stock out on the road which will usually be covering for the missing branded bus on the Lime.

It may be rare but it is becoming more common as if you monitor the buses on the service for a good period of time you will notice that with 1 spare been allocated a day (at least) that will soon add up to show the services poor reliability. Bit like the X7 when it had its renowns. They started off great but over time you could tell that the buses were struggling to cope with the amount of spares that appeared on the route over the period of time before the Citaros were brought in.

(27 Apr 2014, 2:52 pm)Robert wrote Its the complete opposite for me. Most of the time it is Chester-Le-Street spares that I see rather than Stanley spares. A Red Kite and a Diamond bus covering for a Lime is far better than a Venture SR like we have seen in the past but these buses have probably been placed on because of lack of spare single decker stock out on the road which will usually be covering for the missing branded bus on the Lime.

It may be rare but it is becoming more common as if you monitor the buses on the service for a good period of time you will notice that with 1 spare been allocated a day (at least) that will soon add up to show the services poor reliability. Bit like the X7 when it had its renowns. They started off great but over time you could tell that the buses were struggling to cope with the amount of spares that appeared on the route over the period of time before the Citaros were brought in.

When I went to Sunderland in the half-term, it appeared to be more Chester-le-Street spares used. I saw 4906, 4908, 4914 and 4929 on the ''Lime'' services, so thats three Chester-le-Street spares, and one Stanley spares. In the past, it has been the same story, with more Chester-le-Street spares being used.

(27 Apr 2014, 3:00 pm)Tom wrote When I went to Sunderland in the half-term, it appeared to be more Chester-le-Street spares used. I saw 4906, 4908, 4914 and 4929 on the ''Lime'' services, so thats three Chester-le-Street spares, and one Stanley spares. In the past, it has been the same story, with more Chester-le-Street spares being used.

I must admit this though; when 4837, 4838, 4839 and 4844 were still in service they were on the Lime quite a bit. Recently I've only seen out of the four younger Renowns about half a dozen on the Lime, and each time it's been 4907. Quite a few have been on the 50 recently as well as the 28.

As it's been discussed previously in this thread, I'd like to ask if anyone knows whether this is a B7RLE or a B8RLE? There appear to be differences in the windows compared to previous B7RLEs.

(27 Apr 2014, 6:31 pm)Dan wrote As it's been discussed previously in this thread, I'd like to ask if anyone knows whether this is a B7RLE or a B8RLE? There appear to be differences in the windows compared to previous B7RLEs.

I think this, judging by it's description, is the B7RLE;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bmb15/9542...MV-fAAcDa/

There seems to be a lot of similarities between that and your photo, but I can spot a difference in a rear shot of the B7RLE;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33166030@N...ZV9-bQLxrt

It appears that the vehicle in the photo in question has a slightly different volvo insignia on the back beneath the window. It may just be a slightly different body, but I think that may be the B8RLE.

(27 Apr 2014, 3:27 pm)Marcus wrote I must admit this though; when 4837, 4838, 4839 and 4844 were still in service they were on the Lime quite a bit. Recently I've only seen out of the four younger Renowns about half a dozen on the Lime, and each time it's been 4907. Quite a few have been on the 50 recently as well as the 28.

Having driven all 4 mentioned vehicles prior to withdrawl, i'd say they were good vehicles. Maybe a fair few rattles but mechanicly sound. Much better than 4926 imo. 4906-9 for all the problems on the wtx are coping well at chester.

(27 Apr 2014, 6:52 pm)nk55 wrote Having driven all 4 mentioned vehicles prior to withdrawl, i'd say they were good vehicles. Maybe a fair few rattles but mechanicly sound. Much better than 4926 imo. 4906-9 for all the problems on the wtx are coping well at chester.

4926 is a total wreck. It was pathetic when I had it numerous times on the 50 when it was branded for it, and now that it gets used as a spare it gets all sorts. I must say it does seem to still get used on the 50 a lot, rarely seen it on the X25 when compared to 4928 and 4930 which seem to be on it daily, and also it seems to get used on the 71 alot as well when one of the 4906-09 batch isn't available.

(27 Apr 2014, 6:52 pm)Marcus wrote I think this, judging by it's description, is the B7RLE;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bmb15/9542...MV-fAAcDa/

There seems to be a lot of similarities between that and your photo, but I can spot a difference in a rear shot of the B7RLE;

https://www.flickr.com/photos/33166030@N...ZV9-bQLxrt

It appears that the vehicle in the photo in question has a slightly different volvo insignia on the back beneath the window. It may just be a slightly different body, but I think that may be the B8RLE.

All 6 Volvo/Wrights at Heysham today are dealer stock B7RLEs

(27 Apr 2014, 7:48 pm)Kuyoyo wrote All 6 Volvo/Wrights at Heysham today are dealer stock B7RLEs

Think they may be for MOD ?
No destination equipment and the gaps between lights for the plates look long!

(27 Apr 2014, 7:51 pm)tyresmoke wrote Think they may be for MOD ?
No destination equipment and the gaps between lights for the plates look long!

Looks like there are legals by the front entrance.
Too small to identify.

Had a look back and can't find the info i'm looking for...


Was it June for the new financial year for GNE?

If so, the proposed order for GNE should be going in soon?


Any more info on orders?

(10 May 2014, 2:22 pm)Michael wrote If so, the proposed order for GNE should be going in soon?

Any more info on orders?

Patiences is a virtue, Michael. I am sure it has been explained that order details are passed onto Go-Ahead as part of their financial year planning. Upon order requests being granted, plans will progress and the finer details of orders will be detailed. An idea of the order to be placed is the current stage in proceedings.

Why don't GNE get a B5TL with a Tacho and have a three month trial on the TTX? Therefore, GNE could prove to Volvo that they need to introduce a double deck bus that is designed for endurance and long runs with a powerful engine and high gearing ratios but meets Euro 6 regulations.

(07 Jun 2014, 9:47 am)DaveyBowyer wrote Why don't GNE get a B5TL with a Tacho and have a three month trial on the TTX? Therefore, GNE could prove to Volvo that they need to introduce a double deck bus that is designed for endurance and long runs with a powerful engine and high gearing ratios but meets Euro 6 regulations.

Might as well take a sledgehammer to it and ruin it quicker. Is any bus designed to be horsed up and down a dual carriageway non-stop all day? That's the role of a coach.

(07 Jun 2014, 9:50 am)aureolin wrote Might as well take a sledgehammer to it and ruin it quicker. Is any bus designed to be horsed up and down a dual carriageway non-stop all day? That's the role of a coach.

And the bus manufacturers know this.

Coaches are a lot more expensive, and if operators cannot buy suitable buses - they will be forced, in time, to buy coaches instead. Handy for those manufacturers who build both buses and coaches, isn't it?

(07 Jun 2014, 9:53 am)Dan wrote And the bus manufacturers know this.

Coaches are a lot more expensive, and if operators cannot buy suitable buses - they will be forced, in time, to buy coaches instead. Handy for those manufacturers who build both buses and coaches, isn't it?

Yep, but to an extent, car manufacturers have been doing the same for years. It's just unfortunate that this almost always comes down to more expense.

(07 Jun 2014, 10:06 am)aureolin wrote Yep, but to an extent, car manufacturers have been doing the same for years. It's just unfortunate that this almost always comes down to more expense.

So do the bus operators fork out the extra cash? In my opinion, there's only so much revenue growth you can expect from buying new vehicles for a bus service.

And if they do fork out the extra cash, are bus operators still expected to withdraw these vehicles in a certain period of time (i.e. 15 years)?

It's a fierce circle, if you ask me.

(07 Jun 2014, 10:10 am)Dan wrote So do the bus operators fork out the extra cash? In my opinion, there's only so much revenue growth you can expect from buying new vehicles for a bus service.

And if they do fork out the extra cash, are bus operators still expected to withdraw these vehicles in a certain period of time (i.e. 15 years)?

It's a fierce circle, if you ask me.

Yes you have to ask the question of will you get a return on the investment. Of course there's also the vehicle life on the service they were bought for. The B7s that came off X9/X10 were 6-7 years old at the time. Will the B9s last that long? It depends what the reasoning behind their recent absences is, were they mechanical or other reasons like being off for test prep?
If you are going to have to buy new double deck vehicles every 5 years then would it be cheaper over time to buy coaches every 10 years, expecting a longer life from them? The other option would be to downgrade to standard size coaches, with the inevitable frequency boost, but would this create the growth required to sustain the investment?

(07 Jun 2014, 10:10 am)Dan wrote So do the bus operators fork out the extra cash? In my opinion, there's only so much revenue growth you can expect from buying new vehicles for a bus service.

And if they do fork out the extra cash, are bus operators still expected to withdraw these vehicles in a certain period of time (i.e. 15 years)?

It's a fierce circle, if you ask me.

I completely agree, but I think ultimately they're going to have to.

What's being done at present is doing nothing but shortening the usable life of a Gemini by a third. I'd assume the investment is given by the Go Ahead group on the basis that the bus, over it's lifetime, more than pays for itself. After all no one is going to invest to make a loss.

I don't know a lot about it, but it'd be interesting to see how Stagecoach do it in West Scotland. They've got plenty of express coaches running round, and they seem massively popular.

No bus can be placed on a demanding route like the TTX without being worn down to the ground within a few years. Even olympians wouldnt last that much longer before breakdowns started to occur etc. Coaches might be the best and only option unless somebody like volvo was to make a double deck bus with a coach engine although i can highly doubt this from happening.

(07 Jun 2014, 10:22 am)aureolin wrote I completely agree, but I think ultimately they're going to have to.

What's being done at present is doing nothing but shortening the usable life of a Gemini by a third. I'd assume the investment is given by the Go Ahead group on the basis that the bus, over it's lifetime, more than pays for itself. After all no one is going to invest to make a loss.

I don't know a lot about it, but it'd be interesting to see how Stagecoach do it in West Scotland. They've got plenty of express coaches running round, and they seem massively popular.

Yes, I think you're right regarding the Go-Ahead group. As far as I know, at the start of each financial year, each bus operator that falls under the Go-Ahead group submits a 'bid' for new vehicles. This bid contains all the details of how much revenue the service generates which the new vehicles are intended for, the type of preferred vehicle (i.e. double deck, heavy weight, light weight etc), the assumed payback time, and I believe it is also planned right down to the cascades which will come of this, and ultimately the withdrawal and sale of some vehicles in the fleet.

I believe I was told at the time that Go North East / Go-Ahead intended to keep the Volvo B9TLs on the Tyne Tees Xpress for seven years (i.e. half of their expected "shell life"), prior to them taking a different role in the fleet - by which time the vehicles should have either paid for themselves or at least a substantial part of the payment. I'd expect that the vehicles would also be repainted during this time too, with the chance of a possible early refurbishment given the nature of the services they're allocated to.

Taking this into account, paired with the figures for coaches in this post, it does make the investment into coaches seem unlikely.

If Go North East did expect to replace the vehicles after seven years (at a cost of £1.2m), they would expect to replace coaches (at a cost of £2.1m) after double that - fourteen years. By this time, technology perhaps could have advanced and the Tyne Tees Xpress - despite being an apparent 'prestigious' express service - would soon fall victim to having some of the eldest vehicles in the fleet. Likewise, you couldn't expect to generate much of a profit from those coaches either - whereas you possibly can with the buses still. Also the question of where you'd put them after they've finished up on the Tyne Tees Xpress - I don't think there's any appropriate services at present really?

I really am sceptical about the investment into coaches, and I really don't think the numbers stack up. As I said the other day, tough call for Go North East to make.

(07 Jun 2014, 10:17 am)tyresmoke wrote Yes you have to ask the question of will you get a return on the investment. Of course there's also the vehicle life on the service they were bought for. The B7s that came off X9/X10 were 6-7 years old at the time. Will the B9s last that long? It depends what the reasoning behind their recent absences is, were they mechanical or other reasons like being off for test prep?

6071 was getting used as 6043 had an issue with its starter and was waiting for Volvo as it is under warranty, nothing major.

Whats the chances IF GNE buying new buses for X9/X10 in the next order of buses and the X9/X10 buses be used on service X21?, to get rid of the Prontos (any maybe their get rid of the Pronto livery and have the X21 in the same livery as the X9/X10[/i].