Look at these timings between Ashington and Newcastle:

Arriva X20 (Every 60 mins Mon to Sat): Off Peak (40 mins), Peak (50 mins)

Arriva X21 (Every 20 mins Mon to Sat / Every 60 mins Eve and Sun): Off peak (57 mins), Peak (1hr 7mins), Eve and Sundays (54 mins)

Arriva X22 (Same frequencys as X21): Off Peak (55 mins), Peak (1hr 5 mins), Eve and Sundays (53 mins)

GNE X51 (Every 30 mins Mon to Sat / Every 60 mins Eve and Sun): Off Peak (49 mins), Peak (56 mins), Eve and Sundays (47 mins)

(17 May 2014, 5:38 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote You're joking? What about when GNE introduced the Tynedale Express. Have they introduced anything running infront of them? And the X51 would have less breakdowns and be more reliable with a more suitable vehicle type being used pending upon the Red Arrows getting an upgrade with high back seats, powerful engines and free wi-fi and if it took off, they could retrofit power sockets too. That would only leave leather seats missing but as discussed about the 05 Onmicities, they look cheap and tatty after a few years.

Yeah I was just saying that because Arriva have, currently, dominance (pretty much) there over other operators and I just think they would do all they could to out-compete a route that could threaten one of their most profitable.
Would you use the deckers on both services or use Citaro's on one?

(17 May 2014, 5:53 pm)mb134 wrote Yeah I was just saying that because Arriva have, currently, dominance there over other operators and I just think they would do all they could to out-compete a route thar could threaten one of their most profitable.
Would you use the deckers on both services or use Citaro's on one?

If it was only the X51, Volvo B9TL with pp retrifit after settling period. But if both, then Citaros with Moovbox or CCL installed on all.

(17 May 2014, 5:57 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote If it was only the X51, Volvo B9TL with pp retrifit after settling period. But if both, then Citaros with Moovbox or CCL installed on all.

I know that the B9's are reliable, are the Citaro's on par with them in terms of reliability?(don't know much about them)

(17 May 2014, 5:38 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote You're joking? What about when GNE introduced the Tynedale Express. Have they introduced anything running infront of them?

What would be the point in Arriva running anything to compete with the Tynedale Expresses? Sure, Go North East may have nabbed a few Arriva passengers travelling from Hexham, but its not like Arriva had any network to protect in the Hexham area. Besides, they still pick up some revenue from passengers travelling on the Carlisle to Hexham section of the route - albeit shared in part with Stagecoach Cumbria.

South East Northumberland, however, is widely considered as Arriva's territory with a network of services in the area. If Go North East renewed competition around Ashington/Bedlington/Newbiggin then I'd fully expect Arriva to protect their territory. Whether they win or not is a different matter, but it is a little naive to assume that Arriva wouldn't fight back based upon Go North East's introduction of the Tynedale Express. The two scenarios are completely different.

(17 May 2014, 6:15 pm)mb134 wrote I know that the B9's are reliable, are the Citaro's on par with them in terms of reliability?(don't know much about them)

Air pressure can be a bit tempermental and they can struggle on the Diamond due to the nature of the roads but generally OK. Only 1 breakdown in two months on the X7.

(17 May 2014, 7:34 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Air pressure can be a bit tempermental and they can struggle on the Diamond due to the nature of the roads but generally OK. Only 1 breakdown in two months on the X7.

Decent, I know that the X21/22 are getting full E400 operation when it goes Sapphire, but the Citaro's sound a great deal better than the DB250's from London that are used on there at the moment, not that they are unreliable I just don't particularly like them. The B9's would obviously also be a lot better and with the reliability passengers would be happier

(17 May 2014, 7:40 pm)mb134 wrote Decent, I know that the X21/22 are getting full E400 operation when it goes Sapphire, but the Citaro's sound a great deal better than the DB250's from London that are used on there at the moment, not that they are unreliable I just don't particularly like them. The B9's would obviously also be a lot better and with the reliability passengers would be happier

A B9 wouldn't be justified for every 15 minutes for a short while until the Mercs became standing only at peak times for a good few months. Mind you though, a top speed of 57mph wouldn't go a miss either.

(17 May 2014, 8:46 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote A B9 wouldn't be justified for every 15 minutes for a short while until the Mercs became standing only at peak times for a good few months. Mind you though, a top speed of 57mph wouldn't go a miss either.

I do think, whichever vehicle used, it would provide much needed competition because of the timing's you have said and the quality of GNE services in general from what I understand (at least compared to Arriva)

(17 May 2014, 8:59 pm)mb134 wrote I do think, whichever vehicle used, it would provide much needed competition because of the timing's you have said and the quality of GNE services in general from what I understand (at least compared to Arriva)

I think the Northumberland Coast routes offered by Arriva are appalling - Maybe GNE could start a couple of new routes up there, operated by Percy Main? Could try some competitive fares like on the Tynedalexpress services as the fares with Arriva are expensive (e.g Morpeth to Newcastle is £5.00 for a adult).

(17 May 2014, 4:38 pm)mb134 wrote Would it be better instead of sending it through wansbeck hospital, sending it through North Seaton village instead just to get more custom from Arriva?

Here is my solution to your suggestion. Service X52 has been added therefore giving a bus up to every 15 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle. Service X52 will serve the same route as the X51 with the exception that between Spital Road and Ashington Town Centre, buses will serve North Seaton rather than Wansbeck Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys run up to every 30 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle despite the initial higher cost on paper due to the fact that the PVR would work out the same as terminating the X52 in Ashington during evenings and Sundays. Therefore, it would be better to have them both operating their full routes during the evenings and on Sundays every 60 minutes giving a combined frequency of every 30 minutes. Passenger numbers would increase due to a viable, suitable, relatively fast and easy alternative to the car between Newbiggin, Ashington, Bedlington and Newcastle. Also, buses would truly combine together particularly from between Ashington and Newcastle as opposed to the X21 and X22. Bedlington would have a flat 30 minute frequency during the evenings and Sundays as opposed of having to wait up 35 minutes for a bus if passengers miss the X22.





Above is the timetable to this. PLEASE NOTE THAT IT'S NOT OFFICIAL AND DOESN'T REFLECT UPON GO NORTH EAST

(18 May 2014, 4:58 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Here is my solution to your suggestion. Service X52 has been added therefore giving a bus up to every 15 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle. Service X52 will serve the same route as the X51 with the exception that between Spital Road and Ashington Town Centre, buses will serve North Seaton rather than Wansbeck Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys run up to every 30 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle despite the initial higher cost on paper due to the fact that the PVR would work out the same as terminating the X52 in Ashington during evenings and Sundays. Therefore, it would be better to have them both operating their full routes during the evenings and on Sundays every 60 minutes giving a combined frequency of every 30 minutes. Passenger numbers would increase due to a viable, suitable, relatively fast and easy alternative to the car between Newbiggin, Ashington, Bedlington and Newcastle. Also, buses would truly combine together particularly from between Ashington and Newcastle as opposed to the X21 and X22. Bedlington would have a flat 30 minute frequency during the evenings and Sundays as opposed of having to wait up 35 minutes for a bus if passengers miss the X22.





Above is the timetable to this. PLEASE NOTE THAT IT'S NOT OFFICIAL AND DOESN'T REFLECT UPON GO NORTH EAST

It looks very well thought out and if GNE did ever introduce it, I think it would be very popular especially to those in North Seaton who, if they miss the X20 have to either wait an hour for the next one or get a bus to Ashington then to Newcastle

(18 May 2014, 5:15 pm)mb134 wrote It looks very well thought out and if GNE did ever introduce it, I think it would be very popular especially to those in North Seaton who, if they miss the X20 have to either wait an hour for the next one or get a bus to Ashington then to Newcastle

And here's a few tag lines:

"Ashington to Newcastle in 56 minutes during peak times."

"Ride our fast Mercs to the Toon up to every 15 minutes."

"Sapphire may be nice but silver is the business."

"Leave the car at home and take the Merc."

(18 May 2014, 5:31 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote And here's a few tag lines:

"Ashington to Newcastle in 56 minutes during peak times."

"Ride our fast Mercs to the Toon up to every 15 minutes."

"Sapphire may be nice but silver is the business."

"Leave the car at home and take the Merc."

All far better than anything Arriva have ever tried to sell the service as, if they've ever done anything at all (at least until Sapphire)

(18 May 2014, 5:35 pm)mb134 wrote All far better than anything Arriva have ever tried to sell the service as, if they've ever done anything at all (at least until Sapphire)

And if they ever got B9's if all peak time journeys become standing only:

"Turbocharging is nice, but getting there is better!"

Our Mercs may not have beds for your commute from Newbiggin to work in Newcastle, but feel free to have an extra 15 minutes in your own bed thanks to our fast journey times!

(18 May 2014, 6:07 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Our Mercs may not have beds for your commute from Newbiggin to work in Newcastle, but feel free to have an extra 15 minutes in your own bed thanks to our fast journey times!

Need to think of one to do with the obvious reliability benefits of the Mercs

(18 May 2014, 6:58 pm)mb134 wrote Need to think of one to do with the obvious reliability benefits of the Mercs

Turbocharging may be nice, but the pure power of our Mercs will get you there.

(18 May 2014, 7:20 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Turbocharging may be nice, but the pure power of our Mercs will get you there.

Decent enough yeah although these do make the E400's sound like they break down at every corner

(18 May 2014, 5:31 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote And here's a few tag lines:

"Ashington to Newcastle in 56 minutes during peak times."

"Ride our fast Mercs to the Toon up to every 15 minutes."

"Sapphire may be nice but silver is the business."

"Leave the car at home and take the Merc."

You could add "I wish our lass was as filthy as this", for the winter period when the washers tend to break down.

(18 May 2014, 8:25 pm)aureolin wrote You could add "I wish our lass was as filthy as this", for the winter period when the washers tend to break down.

From what I've been led to believe about females in the Ashington and Bedlington areas, the slogan you suggest may be rendered somewhat redundant

(18 May 2014, 8:48 pm)AdamY wrote From what I've been led to believe about females in the Ashington and Bedlington areas, the slogan you suggest may be rendered somewhat redundant

*shudder* I was seeing someone from Bedlington years ago when I was at college.

(18 May 2014, 4:58 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Here is my solution to your suggestion. Service X52 has been added therefore giving a bus up to every 15 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle. Service X52 will serve the same route as the X51 with the exception that between Spital Road and Ashington Town Centre, buses will serve North Seaton rather than Wansbeck Hospital. Evening and Sunday journeys run up to every 30 minutes between Newbiggin and Newcastle despite the initial higher cost on paper due to the fact that the PVR would work out the same as terminating the X52 in Ashington during evenings and Sundays. Therefore, it would be better to have them both operating their full routes during the evenings and on Sundays every 60 minutes giving a combined frequency of every 30 minutes. Passenger numbers would increase due to a viable, suitable, relatively fast and easy alternative to the car between Newbiggin, Ashington, Bedlington and Newcastle. Also, buses would truly combine together particularly from between Ashington and Newcastle as opposed to the X21 and X22. Bedlington would have a flat 30 minute frequency during the evenings and Sundays as opposed of having to wait up 35 minutes for a bus if passengers miss the X22.





Above is the timetable to this. PLEASE NOTE THAT IT'S NOT OFFICIAL AND DOESN'T REFLECT UPON GO NORTH EAST

Yes a well thought out plan but GNE have tris this once already with the X41 Bargain Express and the X44/X45 routes from Morpeth. Sadly I'm afraid as shocking as Arriva have became compared to how the company was ran as Northumbria I don't believe they would take the same risk twice and I'm sure as part of the depot swap they must be a clause regarding competition on these routes otherwise there would have been no point in the sale!

(18 May 2014, 10:28 pm)Coastliner700 wrote Yes a well thought out plan but GNE have tris this once already with the X41 Bargain Express and the X44/X45 routes from Morpeth. Sadly I'm afraid as shocking as Arriva have became compared to how the company was ran as Northumbria I don't believe they would take the same risk twice and I'm sure as part of the depot swap they must be a clause regarding competition on these routes otherwise there would have been no point in the sale!

Yes but that was on a low cost agreement. What about a clean and comfortable Merc every 15 minutes as opposed to every 20 minutes with relatively fast journey times between Newbiggin, Ashington, Bedlington and Newcastle? What about a journey time of 10-15 minutes less and only slightly more than a less frequent X20? What about a more frequent evening and Sunday service? What about connections across the North East? What about not having to shell out another few quid for a trip to the Metrocentre? What about the new Cowgate junction to replace the roundabout? What about radio communication if there is an operational issue, breakdown or serious delay?

Here are a few suggestions I've come up with for the Chester-le-Street and Washington area services:

the WAGGONWAY 28/28A:
These services would remain largely unchanged, however, these would extend from Chester-le-Street to Waldridge Park, to replace services 34 and 34A which would be reduced in frequency. The 28 would continue to The Avenue/Bullion Lane, while the 28A would continue to Garden House Farm. This would additionally provide better links for residents of this area.

Lambton Worm 34/34A:
These services would operate to a reduced frequency throughout the route, of 30 minutes, however, the areas affected would still receive a regular service by either service M3, or the WAGGONWAY 28/28A combined with the Lambton Worm services. It would operate to the same route as now.

38 and East Durham Services 71/238:
The 71 would remain at it's current frequency and timetable as now better Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street. However, one journey per hour would continue to Seaham via the current 238 route. This would replace service 238, and allow service 38 to operate to a more consistent timetable between Tunstall Bank Estate and Sunderland. At Seaham, this service would interwork with the 265 to provide bigger services for this busy service.

Washington Local Services M2/M3:
These services would now operate between Chester-le-Street and Concord, as opposed to Birtley and Heworth. Service M2 would operate half-hourly from Chester-le-Street direct to Birtley via Barley Mow, then via it's normal route to Concord. Services M3 and M3A would operate from Chester-le-Street to Coach Road Estate half hourly via Pelton, Urpeth Grange (M3), Ouston (M3A), Birtley then it's normal route to Concord, with the M3A extending to Coach Road Estate.

Washington Local Service W5/W6:
These services would operate via it's normal route from Barmston Court or Brady Square to Washington, however would extend to Heworth to make up for the loss of the M2 and M3. The W5 would operate via Donwell, and the W6 would operate via Sulgrave. This would also increase passenger numbers.

What does everyone think?

(28 May 2014, 8:05 pm)Tom wrote Here are a few suggestions I've come up with for the Chester-le-Street and Washington area services:

the WAGGONWAY 28/28A:
These services would remain largely unchanged, however, these would extend from Chester-le-Street to Waldridge Park, to replace services 34 and 34A which would be reduced in frequency. The 28 would continue to The Avenue/Bullion Lane, while the 28A would continue to Garden House Farm. This would additionally provide better links for residents of this area.

Lambton Worm 34/34A:
These services would operate to a reduced frequency throughout the route, of 30 minutes, however, the areas affected would still receive a regular service by either service M3, or the WAGGONWAY 28/28A combined with the Lambton Worm services. It would operate to the same route as now.

38 and East Durham Services 71/238:
The 71 would remain at it's current frequency and timetable as now better Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street. However, one journey per hour would continue to Seaham via the current 238 route. This would replace service 238, and allow service 38 to operate to a more consistent timetable between Tunstall Bank Estate and Sunderland. At Seaham, this service would interwork with the 265 to provide bigger services for this busy service.

Washington Local Services M2/M3:
These services would now operate between Chester-le-Street and Concord, as opposed to Birtley and Heworth. Service M2 would operate half-hourly from Chester-le-Street direct to Birtley via Barley Mow, then via it's normal route to Concord. Services M3 and M3A would operate from Chester-le-Street to Coach Road Estate half hourly via Pelton, Urpeth Grange (M3), Ouston (M3A), Birtley then it's normal route to Concord, with the M3A extending to Coach Road Estate.

Washington Local Service W5/W6:
These services would operate via it's normal route from Barmston Court or Brady Square to Washington, however would extend to Heworth to make up for the loss of the M2 and M3. The W5 would operate via Donwell, and the W6 would operate via Sulgrave. This would also increase passenger numbers.

What does everyone think?

To be honest, I can see something there. The only problem is, the best part of the 34/34A route to replace from my point of view would be the Urpeth Grange - Chester section; it must make twice as much in the Waldridge Park area, it also seems to drop a lot of driver's off home.

(28 May 2014, 8:39 pm)Marcus wrote To be honest, I can see something there. The only problem is, the best part of the 34/34A route to replace from my point of view would be the Urpeth Grange - Chester section; it must make twice as much in the Waldridge Park area, it also seems to drop a lot of driver's off home.

The 15 minute frequency would be maintained though.

(28 May 2014, 8:40 pm)Tom wrote The 15 minute frequency would be maintained though.

Oh, I didn't understand the description very well

I suppose that would be just as good - having an extra service for them at Waldridge. The only problem is - would it make money if the 34/34A still had it's frequency?

(28 May 2014, 8:44 pm)Marcus wrote Oh, I didn't understand the description very well

I suppose that would be just as good - having an extra service for them at Waldridge. The only problem is - would it make money if the 34/34A still had it's frequency?

34 would operate every 30 minutes

(28 May 2014, 8:48 pm)Tom wrote 34 would operate every 30 minutes

So scrap the 34A? Possibly brand a few of the 4926-4931 batch for The Waggonway if something like that went through? What of the fate of the 4 Worm Versas then if they all aren't needed?