Both past and present!

Now that GNE's X3 has gone 'down the river', I think GNE's 71 will become the main topic in GNE's side of things.

As I use the 71 regularly, I must say, although I may have said differently in the past, I don't think there is actually anything wrong with the service itself. It just needs a better timetable in order to function properly, and I don't think the answer is to combine services, and resultantly withdrawing some. All of the places served bring passengers, and that is the main thing, it just isn't good enough in terms of reliability and
timing.

Maybe a typical run to Houghton and back could be;

Chester Front Street --- 15
Houghton Le Spring --- 50
(the extra 5 minutes allows any time lost to be made up for, and not destroy the rest of the day for the service)
Houghton Le Spring --- 55
Chester Le Street --- 30
(fair enough this leaves 15 minutes, but the service can lose, in some cases, about 10 minutes when picking up people going into Chester)

I'm crap at making timetables, so I'll let someone else try

I remember Service 213 Darlington - Sunderland had a notoriously bad reputation many years back.

One story I heard is that it once broken down outside Sedgefield Cricket Club and a passenger went for a pint until the next bus came

One day I was going to Sunderland and a passenger boarded the bus who looked drunk from the night before and he was sat on the sideways seats behind the drivers cab on a Dart and just outside Easington he fell off the seat and he fell like a ton of bricks falling to the ground, then we had to wait for an ambulance to come for ages.

On the same day as the drunk falling off the seat, on the way home the driver stopped the bus just outside Peterlee Bus Station and got out of the bus (possibly a driver changeover), but no driver turned up for ages, I think we were sat there for about 40 minutes until a driver eventually turned up

Anyone remember the old X50 by Go North East (or, Go Northern, depending which way you look at it)? Didn't it interwork with an X20 when it got to Durham or something? Must have been a nightmare for the drivers!

My controversial service was the via Barley Mow 26 and 777.

I used the services quite a bit.
The 26 in pre-reg days and beyond and the 777 on the Chester - Sunderland and later when it changed to Newcastle - Sunderland.

The 26 gradually saw the vehicle size reduce, despite numbers being good.
Overnight, it went from an Atlantean or Metrobus to a Handybus - eventually seeing Lances/Deltas takeover.

The service stopped running early evening, but on Fridays and Saturdays, a couple of late runs ran - leaving a 4/5 hour gap, between the last bus and the last, last buses.

It was replaced by the 777 on the Newcastle - Barley Mow stretch eventually.
The 777, was then fiddled about with so much, it replaced the 183 - leaving the Barley Mow - Newcastle bus obsolete.
But hey, there was always a 21 at the bottom of the road...

Even now, residents at the far end of Birtley don't have a direct bus to Gateshead or Newcastle (unless they walk to get a 21 or x25 OR use the m2/3 and incur additional charges).
Durham Road also sees a poorer service, with punters crowding onto a 21 and delaying it even more than it already is.

(26 Jul 2014, 8:13 pm)Marcus wrote Now that GNE's X3 has gone 'down the river', I think GNE's 71 will become the main topic in GNE's side of things.

As I use the 71 regularly, I must say, although I may have said differently in the past, I don't think there is actually anything wrong with the service itself. It just needs a better timetable in order to function properly, and I don't think the answer is to combine services, and resultantly withdrawing some. All of the places served bring passengers, and that is the main thing, it just isn't good enough in terms of reliability and
timing.

Maybe a typical run to Houghton and back could be;

Chester Front Street --- 15
Houghton Le Spring --- 50
(the extra 5 minutes allows any time lost to be made up for, and not destroy the rest of the day for the service)
Houghton Le Spring --- 55
Chester Le Street --- 30
(fair enough this leaves 15 minutes, but the service can lose, in some cases, about 10 minutes when picking up people going into Chester)

I'm crap at making timetables, so I'll let someone else try

I appreciate I may sound like a broken record, but with the 'let's make the 21 work at any cost' attitude and axing of the 21a, the service was doomed to be second or third rate at best.

You have said yourself how the passengers work, in the main - using the service either side of the county border.
Fares are ridiculous and buses have been cast offs since day 1.

People don't want to go to Chester or Houghton, hang around waiting for connections (connections need to work both ways, not just on the way out) and huddle around in poor 'interchange' facilities and pay a premium for the privilege.

You don't need to be a genius to know that either.

The service was squeezed out of the Sunderland - Houghton market and is being squeezed on local sections too.

Just wish the powers that be, listened to what passengers wanted and not forced the services onto the communities it serves.

It must make some money - however, I am not sure it makes anywhere near the money the 21a, 160, 163, 177 or 178 made prior to their amalgamation into one.

(26 Jul 2014, 8:17 pm)Marcus wrote Anyone remember the old X50 by Go North East (or, Go Northern, depending which way you look at it)? Didn't it interwork with an X20 when it got to Durham or something? Must have been a nightmare for the drivers!

Aye, especially on days like today.

Used vehicles already in the fleet, until they decided to purchase Solars for it.
Apparently it was amongst the fastest growing services around.

Not sure why they scrapped it if that was the case... :s

(26 Jul 2014, 8:30 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote I appreciate I may sound like a broken record, but with the 'let's make the 21 work at any cost' attitude and axing of the 21a, the service was doomed to be second or third rate at best.

You have said yourself how the passengers work, in the main - using the service either side of the county border.
Fares are ridiculous and buses have been cast offs since day 1.

People don't want to go to Chester or Houghton, hang around waiting for connections (connections need to work both ways, not just on the way out) and huddle around in poor 'interchange' facilities and pay a premium for the privilege.

You don't need to be a genius to know that either.

The service was squeezed out of the Sunderland - Houghton market and is being squeezed on local sections too.

Just wish the powers that be, listened to what passengers wanted and not forced the services onto the communities it serves.


Aye, especially on days like today.

Used vehicles already in the fleet, until they decided to purchase Solars for it.
Apparently it was amongst the fastest growing services around.

Not sure why they scrapped it if that was the case... :s

You've basically just said what I tried to say, Andreos - I'm terrible at explaining stuff!

I agree, I reckon the depot just throws out whatever they want on it, Lolynes, B10BLEs, Scanias, the list goes on!

The communities (cough cough FPF) that it serve would do a pretty good job of running it themselves, wouldn't you say

In regards to the X50, I recall, although once again, I was quite young when it was about, used to get the Nationals?

(26 Jul 2014, 8:30 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Aye, especially on days like today.

Used vehicles already in the fleet, until they decided to purchase Solars for it.
Apparently it was amongst the fastest growing services around.

Not sure why they scrapped it if that was the case... :s

Wasn't it when they took away the Pink Panther services that done Newton Hall and Pit Lane? Instead, they diverted the X50 round Pit Lane and took away it's Xpress status. I remember them wittering on about it at the time saying something along the lines of if there are two routes in Durham, why not have one serve one and one serve the other...


A controversial service for me has to be when the M1 was re-routed to serve Fencehouses. There was a complete disregard for the amount of passengers that travelled from Washington to Phillidelphia for college. You would never be able to get moved on the 194/294 on a morning or evening, and that was on a 10 min frequency with Renowns and later Solars. The reason it was so controversial was because it was apparently done based on customer responses to their consultation, which is actually one of the most misleading questions I've seen in my life. See question 1.

And on a lighter note... the 638! Some loved it, some hated it, most didn't give a flying preverbial! It was one of those routes that everyone knew about and had used at some point.

(26 Jul 2014, 8:36 pm)Marcus wrote You've basically just said what I tried to say, Andreos - I'm terrible at explaining stuff!

I agree, I reckon the depot just throws out whatever they want on it, Lolynes, B10BLEs, Scanias, the list goes on!

The communities (cough cough FPF) that it serve would do a pretty good job of running it themselves, wouldn't you say

In regards to the X50, I recall, although once again, I was quite young when it was about, used to get the Nationals?

And that is after several alcoholic beverages and an afternoon in the sun .

Can't remember Nationals being on it.
Plaxton Verdes were if I remember right.

(26 Jul 2014, 8:38 pm)aureolin wrote Wasn't it when they took away the Pink Panther services that done Newton Hall and Pit Lane? Instead, they diverted the X50 round Pit Lane and took away it's Xpress status. I remember them wittering on about it at the time saying something along the lines of if there are two routes in Durham, why not have one serve one and one serve the other...


A controversial service for me has to be when the M1 was re-routed to serve Fencehouses. There was a complete disregard for the amount of passengers that travelled from Washington to Phillidelphia for college. You would never be able to get moved on the 194/294 on a morning or evening, and that was on a 10 min frequency with Renowns and later Solars. The reason it was so controversial was because it was apparently done based on customer responses to their consultation, which is actually one of the most misleading questions I've seen in my life. See question 1.

And on a lighter note... the 638! Some loved it, some hated it, most didn't give a flying preverbial! It was one of those routes that everyone knew about and had used at some point.

Ah the 638...

Not just college students - pupils at St Robert a and Biddick also lost out with the M1 changes.

Love how Fencehouses has been a recurring theme so far!

(26 Jul 2014, 8:52 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote And that is after several alcoholic beverages and an afternoon in the sun .

Can't remember Nationals being on it.
Plaxton Verdes were if I remember right.

Can't remember Nationals either. I seem to recall Deltas though. Possibly around 99/00? From that I can only recall SPDs, Solars, DAFs, until the Solars were put back on in 2009-ish(?)

What about the real controversial services. Who was it who tried to go to war with Busways in Newcastle, and we got Magicbus as a result of it?? What about the Durham Rd bus war? Was it Classic that ran a 21 down there?

And lets not forget the Bargain Bus the days where a Tyneside civil ('turf' ) war almost erupted.

(26 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm)aureolin wrote What about the real controversial services. Who was it who tried to go to war with Busways in Newcastle, and we got Magicbus as a result of it?? What about the Durham Rd bus war? Was it Classic that ran a 21 down there?

And lets not forget the Bargain Bus the days where a Tyneside civil ('turf' ) war almost erupted.

ANE were feeding their drivers raw meat!

Can remember Magic Bus, but can't remember the competitions name.
Pretty sure it was a small independent.

Aye, Classic ran all sorts to Chester. Can remember RE's being used at one point!
Used a rip off tag line too - Proud of our routes, opposed to Northerns Proud of our heritage line.

(26 Jul 2014, 8:59 pm)aureolin wrote Can't remember Nationals either. I seem to recall Deltas though. Possibly around 99/00? From that I can only recall SPDs, Solars, DAFs, until the Solars were put back on in 2009-ish(?)

This photo seems to disagree; (although it was taken in 2000)

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/8050359@N0...D_w_IS_all

Here it is, but with X20/X50 branding;

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/rpbsp/1367...D_w_IS_all

So yeah, I guess Scanias were the allocation

(26 Jul 2014, 9:07 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote ANE were feeding their drivers raw meat!

Can remember Magic Bus, but can't remember the competitions name.
Pretty sure it was a small independent.

Aye, Classic ran all sorts to Chester. Can remember RE's being used at one point!
Used a rip off tag line too - Proud of our routes, opposed to Northerns Proud of our heritage line.

Was it Classic that cheekily put 'We're Not Part of the Northern Group', or something underneath their name?

(26 Jul 2014, 9:07 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote ANE were feeding their drivers raw meat!

Can remember Magic Bus, but can't remember the competitions name.
Pretty sure it was a small independent.

Aye, Classic ran all sorts to Chester. Can remember RE's being used at one point!
Used a rip off tag line too - Proud of our routes, opposed to Northerns Proud of our heritage line.

It was. There was hell on over it, with it being labelled as Stagecoach trying to drive independents out of town. I'll have to have a look over Newcastle Library, as there's bound to be some press cuttings.

As for Classic. I found this on YouTube. Classic, United and Northern all features, including the GNE X1 to the Boro, operated using a Leyland Tiger!

(26 Jul 2014, 9:14 pm)aureolin wrote It was. There was hell on over it, with it being labelled as Stagecoach trying to drive independents out of town. I'll have to have a look over Newcastle Library, as there's bound to be some press cuttings.

As for Classic. I found this on YouTube. Classic, United and Northern all features, including the GNE X1 to the Boro, operated using a Leyland Tiger!

Great to see a video that shows cars going up Front Street!

(26 Jul 2014, 8:59 pm)aureolin wrote Can't remember Nationals either. I seem to recall Deltas though. Possibly around 99/00? From that I can only recall SPDs, Solars, DAFs, until the Solars were put back on in 2009-ish(?)

I can recall SPD's, Solars, DAF's, Presidents, Tridents and Renowns and being in use on 551/X50/50 over the Years.

(26 Jul 2014, 9:14 pm)aureolin wrote It was. There was hell on over it, with it being labelled as Stagecoach trying to drive independents out of town. I'll have to have a look over Newcastle Library, as there's bound to be some press cuttings.

There is indeed some press cuttings and the independent's name was HMB.

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=270

Here is one that not many people will know of.

And I also manage the entire journey on my Network Teen Travelticket too since my starting point and alighting points were in Tyne and Wear.

Around 2000 / 2001, Compass Travel ran this service numbered the 318. It was a early morning only service and was a job link service. Anyway the route was as follows.

Newcastle Pilgrim Street - Gosforth - Dudley - Cramlington - Bedlington - Ashington - North Seaton - Spine Road - Cobalt - Willington Square - Howdon - Tyne Tunnel - A19 - Hastings Hill - The Broadway - Barnes Park Sunderland College Campus.

The vehicle was one of the 2 white Varios they had, either S20NET or S21NET.

It Departed Pilgrim Sreet around 7am and I alighted in The Broadway around about 9am. Oh and at any one point in the journey there was no more than 10 passengers.

(26 Jul 2014, 9:12 pm)Marcus wrote This photo seems to disagree; (although it was taken in 2000)

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/8050359@N0...D_w_IS_all

Here it is, but with X20/X50 branding;

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/rpbsp/1367...D_w_IS_all

So yeah, I guess Scanias were the allocation

The X20 and X50 were the reason Scanias 5229-5233 were purchased...

(26 Jul 2014, 9:07 pm)Andreos Constantopolous wrote ANE were feeding their drivers raw meat!

It was a shame that GNE didn't stick with it and turn Northumberland into a full cost operating unit with Gemini's and Mercs. One thing that I noticed was that when GNE pulled out of Northumberland, Arriva all of a sudden upped their game providing a better service but when September 2012 came around, wham bang:

- Ashington services screwed up badly.
- X5 sent on massive detour.
- X21 refering to the first post was given a massive detour.
- X20 turned up on the never never with journeys continuing onto the 20 needing to be split.
- 518 short journeys cut.
- 43 was very unreliable.

And on the other end of the foot, the November 2010 changes in the Tyne Valley didn't go down too well either.

(26 Jul 2014, 10:44 pm)AdamY wrote There is indeed some press cuttings and the independent's name was HMB.

http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...hp?tid=270

Was there someone else prior to them?
I can remember Magic Bus deckers bombing about Newcastle a few years prior to the dates you mentioned in that link.

(27 Jul 2014, 9:41 am)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Was there someone else prior to them?
I can remember Magic Bus deckers bombing about Newcastle a few years prior to the dates you mentioned in that link.

Competition with Busways over the years that I can remember is TWOC, HMB and Welcome.

(27 Jul 2014, 9:41 am)Andreos Constantopolous wrote Was there someone else prior to them?
I can remember Magic Bus deckers bombing about Newcastle a few years prior to the dates you mentioned in that link.

Magic Bus was first trialled in Newcastle in 1997. I also thought they were around prior to this date (around 1995-ish) but apparently I was mistaken.

Previous to the HMB/Magic Bus saga, there was competition over similar routes with TWOC and Welcome challenging Busways. However this took place in the latter part of the 80s and lasted until around 1992/93-ish. TWOC were bought out in 1990 (by GNE who immediately sold the company to Busways) while Welcome were bought out in 1993 (also by Busways).

I believe dupes were registered on certain routes to combat the competition but there was no Magic Bus at this time.

The Derwent Valley provided another battleground between Go North East and Classic with other companies like Law Travel providing competition at other points after deregulation.

Although I didn't live in Rowlands Gill at the time, I do recall the following routes operating around the area in the early 90s.

75: Newcastle - Consett (Classic)

607/608: Newcastle - Blackhall Mill Circular (GNE)

611: Newcastle - Blackhall Mill (GNE)

736/738: Newcastle - Blackhall Mill Circular (Classic)

745: Newcastle - Consett (GNE)

B/C: Newcastle - Blackhall Mill Circular (A GNE Coach-based service)

Nine separate services with some operating half-hour frequencies. It's hard to believe now that Rowlands Gill once had somewhere in the region of 12 bph operating towards Newcastle.

(27 Jul 2014, 10:22 am)AdamY wrote Bus was first trialled in Newcastle in 1997. I also thought they were around prior to this date (around 1995-ish) but apparently I was mistaken.

Previous to the HMB/Magic Bus saga, there was competition over similar routes with TWOC and Welcome challenging Busways. However this took place in the latter part of the 80s and lasted until around 1992/93-ish. TWOC were bought out in 1990 (by GNE who immediately sold the company to Busways) while Welcome were bought out in 1993 (also by Busways).

I believe dupes were registered on certain routes to combat the competition but there was no Magic Bus at this time.

Yeah, it was around that time I was thinking of.
Can't find anything online about it, my mind must be playing tricks on me...

(26 Jul 2014, 9:03 pm)aureolin wrote What about the real controversial services. Who was it who tried to go to war with Busways in Newcastle, and we got Magicbus as a result of it?? What about the Durham Rd bus war? Was it Classic that ran a 21 down there?

Ah Classics 21 vs Northerns 221.

Always guaranteed a fantastic vintage on the 21, the 221 was always entirely Metrobus allocation with the odd Leyland thrown in

Mother hits out at council bus policy that leaves her daughter facing a three mile walk to school.

http://m.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/1138...to_school/

My views, they should have known that when they decided to send her to that school, if they don't want her to walk that far they should get her a bike or she should get the Scarlet Band 16A from Faverdale along with the Hummersknot school kids.

(27 Jul 2014, 12:51 am)GMitchelhill wrote Here is one that not many people will know of.

And I also manage the entire journey on my Network Teen Travelticket too since my starting point and alighting points were in Tyne and Wear.

Around 2000 / 2001, Compass Travel ran this service numbered the 318. It was a early morning only service and was a job link service. Anyway the route was as follows.

Newcastle Pilgrim Street - Gosforth - Dudley - Cramlington - Bedlington - Ashington - North Seaton - Spine Road - Cobalt - Willington Square - Howdon - Tyne Tunnel - A19 - Hastings Hill - The Broadway - Barnes Park Sunderland College Campus.

The vehicle was one of the 2 white Varios they had, either S20NET or S21NET.

It Departed Pilgrim Sreet around 7am and I alighted in The Broadway around about 9am. Oh and at any one point in the journey there was no more than 10 passengers.

Sounds like Malarkey made this route.

I thought Hartlepool Borough Council's lesser known 'Hartlepool Explorer' service was controversial in that it was counter-productive in providing a decent bus service for the town.

Here's some context for the route & it's intentions:
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/what-s-o...-1-7332861

And a timetable:
http://issuu.com/hartlepool/docs/hartlepool_express

And a picture of it in service, a solo or an enviro 300 were used:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/thespian/2...otostream/

The intentions behind the bus were similar to that of the South Tyneside service operated by the H-BNL Olympian in that it would promote town folk to get out over summer and support local attractions/businesses.

Hartlepool Council have operated their own small fleet of full size buses for a few years primarily for schools and mobility services, though they are available for private hire. Putting 2 & 2 together it makes fiscal sense for the council to run the service themselves rather than put it out for tender; especially since the leader of the council and MP Ian Wright have been rather vocal on their dislike for Stagecoach.

Presumably to avoid the minefield of red tape involved in public authorities running registered bus services, the service was free. It just so happened however, the route also linked two major residential areas of Hartlepool with the Town Centre and Marina. Competing directly with Stagecoach's route 1 and 7. The Explorer even went via Navigation Point, something long called for by Stagecoach passengers. Now, many may say the explorer ran so infrequently it wouldn't really pull many Stagecoach passengers away. Never under estimate the willingness of a cost-savvy Northerner to save a few quid. I know a few people who used the explorer over the Stagecoach bus to get around.

Here is where the problem lies. Stagecoach have slashed services in Hartlepool from a varied and extensive network with core routes, secondary routes, works and scholars to what it is now. Just 5 simplified routes with a halved PVR and the last bus rolls back into the depot before 7pm most days. As the Explorer was being exploited by bargain hunters, patronage must have dipped for Stagecoach. All this does is give Stagecoach to reduce their services even more.

Should this happen, Hartlepool Council are not in a position to use their fleet to replace the routes with more free buses on a permanent; they'd be uproar from the taxpayers!! Have look at the comments of the Hartlepool Mail article for a cross-section of public opinion. Likewise, they have point blank refused to subside commercial services for the past six years and I can't see this changing. HBC's bus subsidy budget since 2010 has been *drumroll* £0.