Just noticed this on the GNE facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/simplyGNE/posts...0441795710
Go North East
16 mins ·
We are experiencing severe delays across our network. We are currently working to resolve this to limit the inconvenience to you.
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Will this be to do with the extra traffic with it being Easter Monday? Or some other cause?

(06 Apr 2015, 12:41 pm)northern156 wrote Just noticed this on the GNE facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/simplyGNE/posts...0441795710
Go North East
16 mins ·
We are experiencing severe delays across our network. We are currently working to resolve this to limit the inconvenience to you.
---

Will this be to do with the extra traffic with it being Easter Monday? Or some other cause?

Probs due to it being nice and a bank holiday, oh and Sunday service.


28 and 78A is currently suffering delays due to heavy traffic around Beamish... 28 also not serving the main entrance.

Demand being a lot higher than the level of service offered?

@StagecoachNE
SS Ops: Due to passenger demand and traffic issues in Seaburn most E svc are experiencing delays of up to 10 mins.
12:31pm · 6 Apr 2015 · Hootsuite


@StagecoachNE
Sun Ops: Slight delays on most services throughout the city due to passenger demand. Thank you for your patience.
12:23pm · 6 Apr 2015 · Hootsuite


More examples of the demand being greater than service offered? There's got to be a point where someone questions the forecasting...

(06 Apr 2015, 12:50 pm)aureolin wrote Demand being a lot higher than the level of service offered?

Definitely.
Not GNE bus saw a 308 earlier and it was full to bursting, also running about 20 minutes late.  

Where do I start...

Arriva running between 20-40 mins late in both directions, Gypsies and there horses at Easington, the already late 22 got held up by at least 30 horses at Easington Colliery...

The old lady who kept asking me at Dalton Park about her bus to Peterlee, I have the Arriva App on my phone, so I was able to waste me battery telling her[ANGRY FACE]...My 61 was 40 minutes late.

To top it off the Air Con on 5322 was not working, if you want to shed a few pound in a sauna get on 5322 on a hot day...I am absolutely lathered, lol

Would be much worse if the derby was today with all this traffic.[emoji2]

On Sundays and Bank Holidays we have two buses from Corbridge to Hexham - these are ten minutes apart and they return 'immediately'.
Normally I can get the (earlier) GNE TEN with enough time to grab milk from Fore Street then catch the Arriva '85' back, but, today, the 'two o'clock' TEN was running ten minutes late with the Arriva 85 immediately behind it (which then overtook the TEN).

Net result was that I missed the 85 from Hexham and had to wait an hour for the TEN.

Frequently I manage to get the timing right, but today GNE scuppered me.

This is not a complaint, as no doubt the traffic from Newcastle through the Metrocentre, Blaydon and Prudhoe was what caused the lateness.

What does 'annoy' me, though, is the timing of the only two buses that run on Sundays and BHs means that if you miss one then chances are you miss both.

I did, however 'catch' the AD122:-




The destination blind read Haltwhistle Station IIRC.

(06 Apr 2015, 12:59 pm)aureolin wrote @StagecoachNE
SS Ops: Due to passenger demand and traffic issues in Seaburn most E svc are experiencing delays of up to 10 mins.
12:31pm · 6 Apr 2015 · Hootsuite


@StagecoachNE
Sun Ops: Slight delays on most services throughout the city due to passenger demand. Thank you for your patience.
12:23pm · 6 Apr 2015 · Hootsuite


More examples of the demand being greater than service offered? There's got to be a point where someone questions the forecasting...

Trouble is the demand is unpredictable. If it had been raining today then you would have seen no problems. To be fair Seaburn is a bit of a nightmare with the current redevelopment that is going on, you cant get two vehicles passed each other at the Marriot Hotel and you need traffic to stop in both directions to turn out of Dyklands Road.

Stagecoach is providing 11 buses an hour between Sunderland and Seaburn with today's Sunday service.

E1 for example, just under 11 route miles and 42 minute trip time, standard scheduling at around 16mph and a driver has no chance of keeping to time. 

(06 Apr 2015, 4:19 pm)roar wrote Trouble is the demand is unpredictable. If it had been raining today then you would have seen no problems. To be fair Seaburn is a bit of a nightmare with the current redevelopment that is going on, you cant get two vehicles passed each other at the Marriot Hotel and you need traffic to stop in both directions to turn out of Dyklands Road.

Stagecoach is providing 11 buses an hour between Sunderland and Seaburn with today's Sunday service.

E1 for example, just under 11 route miles and 42 minute trip time, standard scheduling at around 16mph and a driver has no chance of keeping to time. 

With exception of Xmas Day, New Years Day and Easter Sunday, I'd argue that the volumes wanting to travel on a bank holiday do not differ much from a Saturday. You might get a lot more wanting to travel to the coast on a nice day like today, but to be fair, you're going to get that on any other day too. Rain wouldn't have stopped people wanting to travel to city centres, to the Metrocentre, and anywhere else they can have a day out. 

The last few bank holidays that I've travelled out on have been chaos. Not for traffic levels and congestion, but simply for the amount of people wanting to travel on the same bus, because the frequency doesn't meet the demand. That's the same across Tyne and Wear. Not just one operator.

(06 Apr 2015, 1:21 pm)citaro5284 wrote Just gone through Whitley Bay and it is gridlocked with traffic...no wonder coastal services are operating late. 

Can't really just say it's Arriva though:
- 309 / 310 running badly late
- 45 or 46 at Metro Centre before had a busfull

(06 Apr 2015, 4:30 pm)aureolin wrote With exception of Xmas Day, New Years Day and Easter Sunday, I'd argue that the volumes wanting to travel on a bank holiday do not differ much from a Saturday. You might get a lot more wanting to travel to the coast on a nice day like today, but to be fair, you're going to get that on any other day too. Rain wouldn't have stopped people wanting to travel to city centres, to the Metrocentre, and anywhere else they can have a day out. 

The last few bank holidays that I've travelled out on have been chaos. Not for traffic levels and congestion, but simply for the amount of people wanting to travel on the same bus, because the frequency doesn't meet the demand. That's the same across Tyne and Wear. Not just one operator.

You might be surprised how bus drivers love a cold wet day, outside of the peaks passenger numbers drop by about 30%. This big drop is usually in ENCTS holders, the majority of which is not necessary travel.  

The trouble with day out travelers on Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holidays is its tidal flow so you take a full bus one way and bring nothing back until later in the day. Through my experience that's why the vast amount of services that have been tried over the years to the likes of the MetroCentre have failed. Now you could say the likes of GNE or Stagecoach are missing a trick there, run something from say Cleveland and instead of it sitting in the coach park all day or taking fresh air back then back to take your passengers home it could be used on extra services on the X66 or 100, unfortunately we have allowed to many into the industry that have no flare or dedication with having no experience of how anything can run.   

(06 Apr 2015, 1:21 pm)citaro5284 wrote Just gone through Whitley Bay and it is gridlocked with traffic...no wonder coastal services are operating late. 

My wife and I decided the dog needed a Bank Holiday too so we caught the Metro to Whitley Bay today and it was exactly as Citaro 5284 said, bumper to bumper. We caught a 1 back to Gateshead and our poor driver, having been decent enough to stop for a running woman with buggy and one other small monster berated him for being 15 mins early! The driver explained that he was actually running very late but our lovely mother type didn't bother to thank him for stopping or being in the wrong. Oh, the joys of being a driver!

The 82 is now beyond a joke! On 4 separate occasions today it has been over 15 mins late

(06 Apr 2015, 6:52 pm)leestransportphotos wrote The 82 is now beyond a joke! On 4 separate occasions today it has been over 15 mins late

May I have a rant at you for no reason please? 

(06 Apr 2015, 6:52 pm)leestransportphotos wrote The 82 is now beyond a joke! On 4 separate occasions today it has been over 15 mins late

Operating Sunday service on Bank Holidays is the joke...

This is what it should be like for a BH service and here is some examples for the daytime for GNE:
- 309 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to Blyth.
- 310 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to N/Shields.
- 21 every 10 minutes to CLS continuing every 20 mins to Durham extending hourly to Bishop Auckland.
- 4 every 10 minutes to Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 mins to Houghton-Le-Spring.
- 56 every 15 minutes from Sunderland to Newcastle.
- TEN group of services operating normal Saturday timetable and routes.
- X1 every 15 minutes from Easington Lane to Newcastle.
- Red Kites and Diamonds operating Saturday timetable.
- 27 operating every 15 minutes between S/Shields and Newcastle.
- Coaster every 15 minutes from Whitley Bay to Gateshead and continuing hourly to Kibblesworth and hourly to Wrekenton.
- X66 operating to Saturday timetable.
- 58 operating to Saturday timetable.

Any more to think of?

(06 Apr 2015, 7:22 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote This is what it should be like for a BH service and here is some examples for the daytime for GNE:
- 309 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to Blyth.
- 310 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to N/Shields.
- 21 every 10 minutes to CLS continuing every 20 mins to Durham extending hourly to Bishop Auckland.
- 4 every 10 minutes to Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 mins to Houghton-Le-Spring.
- 56 every 15 minutes from Sunderland to Newcastle.
- TEN group of services operating normal Saturday timetable and routes.
- X1 every 15 minutes from Easington Lane to Newcastle.
- Red Kites and Diamonds operating Saturday timetable.
- 27 operating every 15 minutes between S/Shields and Newcastle.
- Coaster every 15 minutes from Whitley Bay to Gateshead and continuing hourly to Kibblesworth and hourly to Wrekenton.
- X66 operating to Saturday timetable.
- 58 operating to Saturday timetable.

Any more to think of?

It should be a Saturday service. Why overcomplicate it?

(06 Apr 2015, 7:22 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote This is what it should be like for a BH service and here is some examples for the daytime for GNE:
- 309 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to Blyth.
- 310 every 20 minutes from Newcastle to N/Shields.
- 21 every 10 minutes to CLS continuing every 20 mins to Durham extending hourly to Bishop Auckland.
- 4 every 10 minutes to Fallowfield Way continuing every 20 mins to Houghton-Le-Spring.
- 56 every 15 minutes from Sunderland to Newcastle.
- TEN group of services operating normal Saturday timetable and routes.
- X1 every 15 minutes from Easington Lane to Newcastle.
- Red Kites and Diamonds operating Saturday timetable.
- 27 operating every 15 minutes between S/Shields and Newcastle.
- Coaster every 15 minutes from Whitley Bay to Gateshead and continuing hourly to Kibblesworth and hourly to Wrekenton.
- X66 operating to Saturday timetable.
- 58 operating to Saturday timetable.

Any more to think of?

Blaydon Racer should run Saturday times, but 49B replaced by 49C.

Loop 93/94 need Saturday running times per trip (but keep 30 min service)

There were 40+ passengers from Hexham on the 15:23 TEN today.

There were also at least 20 waiting at Hexham for the 15:27 Arriva 85 to arrive.

Moderation note: Discussion around bank holiday service provision has been moved here, as it's not operator specific. It also makes more sense to have one stream of conversation on the subject, rather than three. 

I wonder if the operators realise that, on days like these especially when it was warm, that they could have made a pile of cash by operating a Saturday timetable. The amount of posts I saw on Facebook complaining about the buses only running to a Sunday service was unreal.

The same applies to what we were talking about on Boxing Day, people don't stay at home that much anymore, as shops etc. are open, and people need to get to work...

It's good this thread exists as it gives me a place to vent when I find out that I will be stranded on Boxing Day again.

It is ridiculous how Arriva don't operate any routes on Boxing Day, I know it's a commercial risk but I still think some routes across the North East could run and potentially turn a profit, mainly routes on Tyneside and another route that could maybe do okay is the Sapphire 7.

In regards to other bank holidays I think more services are needed in places and I think some services can barely keep to a Sunday timetable on a Sunday never mind on a bank holiday. Also capacity seems to be problematic on some services, last year I rode a rammed Pulsar on the 5A from Darlington on one bank holiday Monday and on the August Bank Holiday Monday I rode the 21 to Peterlee on an EcoCity and that had very few seats left when it got towards Peterlee then jumped on a 24 to Sunderland and it had standees. I hope to dear God if the Enviro 400's have entered service I hope they are allocated to the 7 on May Day when I head to the MetroCentre as some of these journeys are busy enough on a Sunday never mind on a Bank Holiday.

I think companies (I'm looking at you here Arriva) need to realise that on Boxing Day people need to get to work, and people just don't stay at home anymore. The companies are stranding people who will need to pay an extortionate amount of money for a Taxi. 

Additionally, I'm sure Tyresmoke said something in the ANE thread on Friday about the amount of passengers being near a normal weekday??


(I'm under the impression that GNE and SNE operated Boxing Day services in 2014?)

I live in Seaburn and it was busy so I opted to get the Metro to Chichester. Slighly longer but couldn't be bothered waiting for E2 or E6. To give SNE a little bit of praise they day operate a normal Mon to Fri service from around 930am but it's not enough.

Regardless of wheather we are in the 21st century now. I do feel sorry getting the brunt of passengers grief, but they face the customers not the commercial department.

SNE did operate a special timetable on Boxing Day and not one bus I caught was on time due to very high passenger loadings. Again not the drivers fault, but powers a be.

I know several forum users disagreed with my post about services finishing early on NYE etc but it's about time we did. And no service on NYD when there is football matches on is just a disgrace. It's OK drivers saying we have family etc - but so do others that don't have a choice about working these 'bank' holidays. I say 'bank' as most people work.

(06 Apr 2015, 9:39 pm)mb134 wrote I wonder if the operators realise that, on days like these especially when it was warm, that they could have made a pile of cash by operating a Saturday timetable. The amount of posts I saw on Facebook complaining about the buses only running to a Sunday service was unreal.

The same applies to what we were talking about on Boxing Day, people don't stay at home that much anymore, as shops etc. are open, and people need to get to work...

By operating a Saturday service would reduce the cash sum that was made today. Twice the expenditure dose not mean more profits. 

(06 Apr 2015, 11:00 pm)roar wrote By operating a Saturday service would reduce the cash sum that was made today. Twice the expenditure dose not mean more profits.

Surely it is about planning and playing the long game though?

Invest in Bank Holiday services, run it well, promote it well and what may be quiet initially and not returning the levels seen on a normal working day, should see an increase into the future.
It is like when shops first opened on a Sunday. They were quiet initially, but gradually footfall increased and behaviours adapted.

People can only use what is offered and put in front of them.

It goes back to what you were saying about the industry lacking flair.

(07 Apr 2015, 5:34 am)Andreos1 wrote Surely it is about planning and playing the long game though?

Invest in Bank Holiday services, run it well, promote it well and what may be quiet initially and not returning the levels seen on a normal working day, should see an increase into the future.
It is like when shops first opened on a Sunday. They were quiet initially, but gradually footfall increased and behaviours adapted.

People can only use what is offered and put in front of them.

It goes back to what you were saying about the industry lacking flair.

I can only agree with you, cant see it happening unless it's forced though. Now we have AVL and the authorities have access to the running data we might see some changes as the percentage of services running late will be known. 

We have seen a little innovation over the last few years with poorly timed services being re-timed, this has resulted in a higher frequency on some core routes on a Sunday service with extra layover time added to allow a return service to depart on time, now that could sound like i'm defending the industry there but I'm not. I honestly cant see the point of giving 10-15 minutes layover because you know a service is going to be late and needs that time so your return journey departs on time. That time would be better put into your schedule meaning less pressure on the driver, customers making connections, customers not wondering if or when the service is going to turn up.

With my years in this industry its very disheartening to see how things are going, trouble is with this lack of flair, motivation and dedication the true bus men are now thinking let them get on with it I'm out in x amount of years. I believe the railway industry is seeing this decline too. 

(07 Apr 2015, 8:32 am)roar wrote I can only agree with you, cant see it happening unless it's forced though. Now we have AVL and the authorities have access to the running data we might see some changes as the percentage of services running late will be known. 

We have seen a little innovation over the last few years with poorly timed services being re-timed, this has resulted in a higher frequency on some core routes on a Sunday service with extra layover time added to allow a return service to depart on time, now that could sound like i'm defending the industry there but I'm not. I honestly cant see the point of giving 10-15 minutes layover because you know a service is going to be late and needs that time so your return journey departs on time. That time would be better put into your schedule meaning less pressure on the driver, customers making connections, customers not wondering if or when the service is going to turn up.

With my years in this industry its very disheartening to see how things are going, trouble is with this lack of flair, motivation and dedication the true bus men are now thinking let them get on with it I'm out in x amount of years. I believe the railway industry is seeing this decline too.

Or, they're given cash incentives. I won't use 'subsidies, grants or handouts - cos eazypeazy doesn't like it.

Granted a lot of the local opps are given a lot of autonomy by head offices, but is it worth certain departments taking the bigger risks?
Or are those departments capable of coming up with something that doesn't involve time away from computer programmes and spreadsheets?

Totally agree with the backloading of layover at the end of a route or in the case of the X35/36 half way through.
Haven't been able to identify a way of sticking it down in writing.

Getting back to the bank holiday issue though, until each and every passenger is questioned (or monitored) on their ultimate destination - there is no way their start and end point can be monitored (in the case of hub & spoke transferring between services).

Malarkey using a paper day/week ticket and travelling between Lambton and Seaburn, isn't monitored as a whole journey.
He joins the masses at Concord on a 56 and is one of many hopping on a E1 from the Wheatsheaf.
As far as operators can see, he is one of a couple using the 82, adds to the growing success story that the rebrand of the 4 has brought us, justifies deckers on the 56 and adds to the reasoning behind running a Saturday service on the E's.
What it doesn't tell the operators, is that a portion of those using the 4 and 56, would benefit from a direct bus from Washington to Seaburn.
Ground on feet and innovation would possibly suggest there was demand for a seasonal service.

As you said previously, running back and forth all day, would just bring empty vehicles back into Washington, until people were ready to come home - so let it run onto something else at the Seaburn end.

For the last three or so years, Stagecoach have run a Saturday service on bank holidays on the 100 but it's blindingly obvious that a Saturday service would be justified across the rest of the 'core' Newcastle network. But they are incredibly slow to react to changing travel patterns though. To take one of my local routes as an example, the Saturday and Sunday diagrams on the 22 have been far too tight for years and late running was the norm rather than the exception. They are reluctant to do anything because it would mean diagramming an extra bus or reducing frequencies (neither of which are Stagecoach hallmarks). It does look like there will (finally) be some changes at the end of May (brought forward from the original date of the end of August as suggested at the recent open meeting).