(08 Apr 2015, 10:46 am)Jimmi wrote I'd like to see Stagecoach continue this new style of livery and puns, could you imagine what branding for a service to Killingworth, I imagine it would look like... "I'd KILL to go to KILLingworth" and instead of a man in a suit it is a siloet of a woman on the floor looking scared with a man wielding a knife about to stab her.

Sorry if that was dark reading to anyone.

That's so funny haha 

(08 Apr 2015, 10:46 am)Jimmi wrote I'd like to see Stagecoach continue this new style of livery and puns, could you imagine what branding for a service to Killingworth, I imagine it would look like... "I'd KILL to go to KILLingworth" and instead of a man in a suit it is a siloet of a woman on the floor looking scared with a man wielding a knife about to stab her.

How about Newbigg'un  and Longbent'un buses?

Apart from walking to Walker and byking to Byker.

Here are the ----KING pun buses;

22408: WorKING 9 to 5 or just seeKING some fun, I'm thinKING X47

22411/12: LooKING for a bargain or LiKING luxury, I'm thinKING X47

(08 Apr 2015, 5:22 pm)markydh wrote So that'll be five years since the last new bus in Newcastle. If they don't get any next year I'll be having serious words with the MD...

And in the Years prior to 2011 when the Hybrid Enviro 400s arrived how often did Walkergate and Slatyford Depot get Brand New Vehicles, compared to the likes of Sunderland and Stockton which have just received a Massive Investment in Vehicles in 2013/14, prior to that they last received New Vehicles (2006 and 2009) respectively, looking at the NEB Fleet List for Stagecoach from 2006 on wards, Newcastle based Depots got the following New Vehicles.

2007 - 50 Dennis Trident 2/Enviro 400s 
2008 - 28 Dennis Trident 2/Enviro 400s & 5 MAN/Enviro 200s
2009 - 7 MAN/Enviro 200s for Slatyford Depot
2010 - 14 Dennis Trident 2/Enviro 400s
2011 - 26 Dennis Trident 2/Enviro 400Hs
Total = 125 New Vehicles

Cant see why your complaining to be honest, Could be worse between 2002 and 2011 my local Go North East Depot at Washington only received 17 Brand New Vehicles in the form of Mercedes Citaros for the Red & Silver Arrows Services prior to the arrival of the B9TLs in 2011 for the X1, Other than that we had cascades from other Depots.

Newcastle depots make far the biggest profits of the North East division. One of those depots hasn't had a single new bus since early 2009 with many of it's core routes suffering from regular overcrowding with buses that were purchased 12 years ago at a time when the North East refused to even contemplate procuring double deck vehicles (an outlook all three main operators had with all three changing their minds a few years later). Kuyoyo, if you are referring to QCS proposals then sorry, they can't be blamed. Sunderland has had it's fleet invested in very heavily in the last couple of years. South Shields is about to have 19 new buses bequeathed. All are subject to the same proposals. And a significant upgrade in the Newcastle depots would allow midlife E400s to upgrade routes elsewhere that wouldn't necessarily justify new double decks but would nevetheless provide significant capacity upgrades (I'm thinking of the E services and those Teesside routes that a few forum members periodically suggest absolutely need deckers). As it is, I know the city council are very seriously considering imposing air quality minimum standards in the City centre. Aging Euro 3 and even Euro 4 buses wouldn't pass.

Believe all you want. It will be a reason - along with the fact Newcastle received constant investment from 2003 until 2011 while Hartlepool, Stockton, South Shields and Sunderland had investment spread over the years (in fact, the only year all 5 locations received new buses was 2004 - 11 years ago!) with large gaps (Hartlepool gain investment 2004/8 (the 2004 vehicles were part of the Kick-Start funded program) and had nothing since (7 years ago!), Stockton 2004 (all 7 vehicles funded from various pots) 2009, 2014 and 2015 (the first time in 20 years the depot has had 2 years of investment and only one of those was Stagecoach and they were diverted from elsewhere), Sunderland was 2004, 2006, 2009, 2013 and 2014, South Shields 2004 2006 2009 2011 2014 and 2015).

Also, the routes at South Shields and Teesside that require deckers could justify new ones not mid-lie cast-offs thank you. As for Sunderland getting new stock, there's only so long you can carry on sending Newcastle's second-hand vehicles to other depots. The only second-hand deckers

That's the point I am trying to make

Does south shields really need 19 more new single deckers at this stage. Other routes that could do with deckers instead at South Shields. And other depots that need brand new singles and not cast offs. And I live in Shields so I'm not taking Sides with teeside

Constant investment? 2003 saw a good number of MANs. Then there were 13 in 2005, 6 partially government funded in 2006, some E400s in 2006 that were sent to Preston less than a year later so don't really count. The years between 2007 and 2010 saw significant investment. 2011 intake was significantly government funded (the scheme was more generous then). And nothing since. Slatyford had 3 of it's E400s siphoned off to Shields and has received plenty of it's own cast offs back again when other depots saw upgrades. And hasn't had a new bus since 2009. Walkergate had to fight tooth and nail to keep the 2005 MANs which were originally intended for cascade elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting Teesside shouldn't get upgrades. But I would suggest that a company withholding investment from it's most profitable depots due to QCS wouldn't go to the significant bother of massively upgrading a depot down the road. Irrespective of government support, installing gas facilities and buying gas buses is a massive outlay. And as I have said, Sunderland is subject to QCS just as Newcastle is.

And it makes perfect sense to purchase new vehicles regularly for your profitable depots. It happens elsewhere in the company every year. Also, whatever the chairman of the group might say, Stagecoach will bid for services when QCS is intoduced. They will make more money from operating under a contract system than by pulling out altogether. Successful businesses are always pragmatic when push comes to shove. They get one year to ensure all buses are Euro 5 or higher. Playing a very stupid game by giving themselves over 150 buses to purchase in that year ?

Except Teesside aren't having their routes threaten because the Tees Valley Councils saw the true light and are working in partnership with the operators. We're also not part of the NECA - but we do have something you'd hate, a Labour MP against QCS.

(08 Apr 2015, 8:15 pm)markydh wrote Constant investment? 2003 saw a good number of MANs. Then there were 13 in 2005, 6 partially government funded in 2006, some E400s in 2006 that were sent to Preston less than a year later so don't really count. The years between 2007 and 2010 saw significant investment. 2011 intake was significantly government funded (the scheme was more generous then). And nothing since. Slatyford had 3 of it's E400s siphoned off to Shields and has received plenty of it's own cast offs back again when other depots saw upgrades. And hasn't had a new bus since 2009. Walkergate had to fight tooth and nail to keep the 2005 MANs which were originally intended for cascade elsewhere.

I'm not suggesting Teesside shouldn't get upgrades. But I would suggest that a company withholding investment from it's most profitable depots due to QCS wouldn't go to the significant bother of massively upgrading a depot down the road. Irrespective of government support, installing gas facilities and buying gas buses is a massive outlay. And as I have said, Sunderland is subject to QCS just as Newcastle is.

And it makes perfect sense to purchase new vehicles regularly for your profitable depots. It happens elsewhere in the company every year. Also, whatever the chairman of the group might say, Stagecoach will bid for services when QCS is intoduced. They will make more money from operating under a contract system than by pulling out altogether. Successful businesses are always pragmatic when push comes to shove. They get one year to ensure all buses are Euro 5 or higher. Playing a very stupid game by giving themselves over 150 buses to purchase in that year ?

On the back of the first statutory consultation, the QCS model was changed to provide leeway on Euro spec. Don't quote me on this, but I'm sure it was a case they'd be given about 3 years to get their houses in order so to speak. Whether that's by moving vehicles around on mass, or by other means, remains to be seen.

(08 Apr 2015, 8:24 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Except Teesside aren't having their routes threaten because the Tees Valley Councils saw the true light and are working in partnership with the operators. We're also not part of the NECA - but we do have something you'd hate, a Labour MP against QCS.

There are no MPs - Parliament was dissolved on the 30th March, but should the Labour Party candidate in your constituency (or any other for that matter) be elected in May, then it'll be on the Labour 2015 manifesto. Transport is on page 20 and 21.

(08 Apr 2015, 8:10 pm)AIG20 wrote I assume the main reason why South Shields is getting new vehicles is so that they can upgrade services 10/11/30 to Euro 5 when the contract with Nexus is renewed, and this will also allow services 17/18 to be allocated one vehicle type, instead of a mixture of vehicles - as service 17/18 is currently operated by MAN E200s, Pointer Darts, and MAN ALX300s (if they are not being used on services X34, X20 and the "E"s).

don't think the pvr for 17/18 and 10/11/30 is 19 though is it.   But again what I am saying is the MAN batch are just 58 reg except for 39702 which is 09 reg, do they need replaced so soon, when other depots are in greater need.  I don't think so

After the second consultation, the requirement to have a 90% compliant fleet within a year was reinserted. Euro 5 minimum which it was felt was fair given we are into Euro 6 now. It was the other requirements (such as zero condensation and the 7 year age limit) which were eased massively. And Kuyoyo, I'm well aware that Teesside isn't *currently* proposing QCS. Though you continually to conveniently ignore my comments re: Sunderland. I have no problem with Teesside getting investment. It was legally necessary however, what with most of it's fleet becoming illegal at the end of the year!

And as hinted at above, I suggest you read Labour's transport manifesto commitments. Will do away with the convoluted QCS legal processes and give all combined authorities the power to regulate all forms of public transport. The Tees Valley LEP authorities are working on their own Combined Authority and have been for over a year...

I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that newcastle is the most profitable depot in northeast, biggest in terms of size and vehicle numbers yes. I would go as far too say that It's possibly South shields that generates biggest net profits as most routes are without competition or run on behalf of nexus?

It's not presumptuous at all. A couple of Newcastle routes are regularly in the top 20 most profitable services in the country. And few Newcastle routes receive NEXUS funding now. Those that do are peripheral. And equally there's little competition for Stagecoach in Newcastle. They have a near monopoly throughout most of the heaviest populated parts of the city.

New buses should be spread out fairly to each different operator, Sunderland & Teesside have had old fleets for a long time until recently. And with DDA deadline coming for single deckers, along with the darts nearly passing their use by date, Stagecoach will care more for those problems then replacing buses that are coping well enough (mid life enviros). I can see Newcastle getting new deckers next year, so the 07 reg ones can move on to depots like Teesside for schoolars and saturday service.

It's really the 03 and 53 reg MANs that I would like to see replaced. They've been worked pretty hard for 12 years and a few are starting to really show their age. They really should be moving into reserve roles now. Yes, there are older buses around (all to be withdrawn by December). I will be watching next year's order very carefully. There won't be any Equality Act deadlines to meet...

(08 Apr 2015, 11:09 pm)markydh wrote It's really the 03 and 53 reg MANs that I would like to see replaced. They've been worked pretty hard for 12 years and a few are starting to really show their age. They really should be moving into reserve roles now. Yes, there are older buses around (all to be withdrawn by December). I will be watching next year's order very carefully. There won't be any Equality Act deadlines to meet...

Next year won`t they be focusing on getting all deckers DDA for the deadline (is it 2017 or 18 for deckers?) if rumors are true then north west & Manchester will have a number of Enviro 400s to be moved elsewere this year so maybe North East will get lucky & manage to get there hands on some of them?

(08 Apr 2015, 11:54 pm)callum2015 wrote Next year won`t they be focusing on getting all deckers DDA for the deadline (is it 2017 or 18 for deckers?) if rumors are true then north west & Manchester will have a number of Enviro 400s to be moved elsewere this year so maybe North East will get lucky & manage to get there hands on some of them?

2017 for deckers.

This year will see all of the NON DDA single deckers removed from the fleet, I would imagine cascades will replace the Tridents and Olympian's from Stockton - these could be E400's like you said.  

Does the 2016 single decker deadline include all training buses to be DDA to?

(09 Apr 2015, 7:42 am)Michael wrote 2017 for deckers.

This year will see all of the NON DDA single deckers removed from the fleet, I would imagine cascades will replace the Tridents and Olympian's from Stockton - these could be E400's like you said.  

Does the 2016 single decker deadline include all training buses to be DDA to?

Haven't looked/checked/heard anything, but can't see the training vehicles needing to be DDA - unless they include operating the ramps/lowering vehicle a mandatory part of the test.

(09 Apr 2015, 7:42 am)Michael wrote 2017 for deckers.

This year will see all of the NON DDA single deckers removed from the fleet, I would imagine cascades will replace the Tridents and Olympian's from Stockton - these could be E400's like you said.  

Does the 2016 single decker deadline include all training buses to be DDA to?

No Micheal it only includes buses that are used in public service

Lookslike all the mans have been branded for X47 photos are currently in the process of uploading to flickr

(09 Apr 2015, 7:42 pm)Multi21 wrote No Micheal it only includes buses that are used in public service

Thanks Multi, that's good, but i don't think the current training fleet has long anyway. =(

(09 Apr 2015, 6:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote Haven't looked/checked/heard anything, but can't see the training vehicles needing to be DDA - unless they include operating the ramps/lowering vehicle a mandatory part of the test.

It's part of the test now but only a tell me show me section that uses point cards. The actual practical bit is covered in cpc hours so as the driver has already passed the driving test its done with what ever vehicle is available. 

(09 Apr 2015, 11:38 pm)roar wrote It's part of the test now but only a tell me show me section that uses point cards. The actual practical bit is covered in cpc hours so as the driver has already passed the driving test its done with what ever vehicle is available.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

Can see it happening and moving away from a tell me/show me in the future, once we see the complete removal of step entrance vehicles from operator stock.

I think the only reason they do it the way they do it now, is due to the practicalities of having an easy access vehicle available for test.

(10 Apr 2015, 6:48 am)Andreos1 wrote I think the only reason they do it the way they do it now, is due to the practicalities of having an easy access vehicle available for test.

What about taking the test on a vehicle with manually-selected gears?

Does a driver who already has a car licence for manual transmission retain that right for PSVs - or do they have to take their test on a manual-shift vehicle?

Most service buses have fully-automatic gear selection.

What about automated manual gearboxes as fitted to most trucks nowadays?

Does this qualify as 'manual' or automatic? - ie would a vehicle fitted with such a gearbox qualify a driver for driving manual-shift gears as fitted to many existing coaches?

(10 Apr 2015, 7:30 am)G-CPTN wrote What about taking the test on a vehicle with manually-selected gears?

Does a driver who already has a car licence for manual transmission retain that right for PSVs - or do they have to take their test on a manual-shift vehicle?

Most service buses have fully-automatic gear selection.

What about automated manual gearboxes as fitted to most trucks nowadays?

Does this qualify as 'manual' or automatic? - ie would a vehicle fitted with such a gearbox qualify a driver for driving manual-shift gears as fitted to many existing coaches?

As I understand now, all newly-qualified PCV/PSV drivers who passes in an automatic vehicle are also now qualified to driving manual vehicles as long as their car licence is for a manual vehicle.

(10 Apr 2015, 7:30 am)G-CPTN wrote What about taking the test on a vehicle with manually-selected gears?

Does a driver who already has a car licence for manual transmission retain that right for PSVs - or do they have to take their test on a manual-shift vehicle?

Most service buses have fully-automatic gear selection.

What about automated manual gearboxes as fitted to most trucks nowadays?

Does this qualify as 'manual' or automatic? - ie would a vehicle fitted with such a gearbox qualify a driver for driving manual-shift gears as fitted to many existing coaches?

Hopefully this link covers everything: 
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chang...t-rules--2

It is a bit of a minefield, with so many hoops to jump through now and laws seemingly changing on such a regular basis.

Stagecoach NEast
‏@StagecoachNE
Sun ops: Due to roadworks on Sea Front, Service 18/19 subject to delays Sorry for any inconvenience caused

(10 Apr 2015, 10:37 am)Andreos1 wrote Hopefully this link covers everything: 
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chang...t-rules--2

It is a bit of a minefield, with so many hoops to jump through now and laws seemingly changing on such a regular basis.

Thanks, that will ease the situation for bus drivers (and those arranging test vehicles).

Also posted on fleet renewal thread:-

Is the Enviro 200 Euro 6 on sale/being ordered yet. Looks a leap forward from current Euro 5 design:

http://www.alexander-dennis.com/products...200-euro6/

Posted on Stagecoach thread as they seem to be the main if only purchaser of AlexanderDennis in the region. (Brian Souter's relationship/interests)