6 of Newton Heath’s 156s will be allocated to Heaton for the new timetable change, with 2 coming up per day starting from tomorrow(?). They should be 156421, 156441, 156468, 156475, 156488, 156489.
Note that 421 and 441 are ones which have been refurbished in the new blue moquette.
(11 Dec 2019, 8:59 pm)EL1TE wrote [ -> ]6 of Newton Heath’s 156s will be allocated to Heaton for the new timetable change, with 2 coming up per day starting from tomorrow(?). They should be 156421, 156441, 156468, 156475, 156488, 156489.
Note that 421 and 441 are ones which have been refurbished in the new blue moquette.
Will that be applied on any other Heaton 156? Ive only seen it on 156451
(12 Dec 2019, 12:50 pm)JM03 wrote [ -> ]Will that be applied on any other Heaton 156? Ive only seen it on 156451
Not so sure if any more have been done, sorry. I know that 156451 also has USB’s but not sure on WiFi. I’m sure more will start to get done soon though.
(12 Dec 2019, 5:24 pm)EL1TE wrote [ -> ]Not so sure if any more have been done, sorry. I know that 156451 also has USB’s but not sure on WiFi. I’m sure more will start to get done soon though.
It had the wifi Im sure too, personally really like it
WiFi & USBs on Northern?! Don't make me laugh... virtually every 150 & 158 refurb I've had has not had WiFi or USBs despite their social media claiming otherwise, the only 150 I've had with WiFi only had it as somebody forgot to remove it when it transferred up from Great Western Railway
EDIT: can confirm 156451 has WiFi & USBs plus seat re-trim
The 142s are still putting in appearances on lines in the North East with Northern... one that certainly won't with Northern now is 142001 which departed today and currently resides at Shildon Locomotion Museum (snapped in Aycliffe bound for Shildon).
![[Image: 49239550131_20a0488f7d.jpg]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49239550131_20a0488f7d.jpg)
142001 by
Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr
Hearing Northern have been stripped of their franchise.
(02 Jan 2020, 10:09 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Hearing Northern have been stripped of their franchise.
If they have been, I'm surprised it's taken them this long to do it.
Although, I can't help but think what affect this is going to have on the sale of Arriva. If anything, not having that franchise may make Arriva more appealing to any prospective buyers!
I personally rarely use Northern much these days, the extend of my usage is between Bishop and Darlington these days and it's actually pretty rare that it's late (at least when I use it)
(02 Jan 2020, 5:00 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]If they have been, I'm surprised it's taken them this long to do it.
Although, I can't help but think what affect this is going to have on the sale of Arriva. If anything, not having that franchise may make Arriva more appealing to any prospective buyers!
I personally rarely use Northern much these days, the extend of my usage is between Bishop and Darlington these days and it's actually pretty rare that it's late (at least when I use it)
From a regular user on the Bishop Line, whilst some cancellations occur at times (especially on weekends), the North East side of the network isn't too bad although could be better, the bulk of the issues have come from Yorkshire and the North West where services are being cancelled mostly due to members of train crew being unavailable and sometimes lack of serviceable trains being available.
I'm not quite sure what stripping them of the franchise is going to achieve as it's unlikely the current issues can magically be resolved. The increase of services and the need for more trains in this franchise was always going to be a struggle but delayed delivery of new trains and cascades certainly haven't helped them.
(02 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]From a regular user on the Bishop Line, whilst some cancellations occur at times (especially on weekends), the North East side of the network isn't too bad although could be better, the bulk of the issues have come from Yorkshire and the North West where services are being cancelled mostly due to members of train crew being unavailable and sometimes lack of serviceable trains being available.
I'm not quite sure what stripping them of the franchise is going to achieve as it's unlikely the current issues can magically be resolved. The increase of services and the need for more trains in this franchise was always going to be a struggle but delayed delivery of new trains and cascades certainly haven't helped them.
I get the feeling the stripping them of the franchise is more for appearances than anything. It doesn't really matter if it was Northern's fault or not, the damage to their reputation is already done. I wouldn't be surprised if Arriva wanted out as much as passengers wanted them out!
(02 Jan 2020, 5:42 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]From a regular user on the Bishop Line, whilst some cancellations occur at times (especially on weekends), the North East side of the network isn't too bad although could be better, the bulk of the issues have come from Yorkshire and the North West where services are being cancelled mostly due to members of train crew being unavailable and sometimes lack of serviceable trains being available.
I'm not quite sure what stripping them of the franchise is going to achieve as it's unlikely the current issues can magically be resolved. The increase of services and the need for more trains in this franchise was always going to be a struggle but delayed delivery of new trains and cascades certainly haven't helped them.
Trying to get a train from Seaham/Sunderland to Newcastle on a weekend is almost impossible. Various times the trains have stopped with the conductor saying no one is to get on because it's too full. No replacement coach, nothing. Just stranded. But this was going on before the days of Arriva Rail North. Sunderland is alright because you can still hop on a Metro - Seaham, however, is a nightmare
However the amount of services from both transpennie and northern that end up being withdrawn is a ridiculous. Sure one of northern goals was to improve reliabily and effiecency of these services and so far it's ended up leaving passengers feeling annoyed and confused and squashed on short formed services
Government will take over Northern train services from March 1 as private operator stripped of franchise
Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...n-17651745
Northern branding will be retained for now, with efforts centralised on recovering and improving the service.
In the future, a new brand(/s) will be announced.
(29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Wonder if they'll keep the Northern branding, I don't think they can ever gain public confidence again unless they change it. People have too many bad experiences with them
I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable.
If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.
(30 Jan 2020, 9:56 am)WheelBus1986 wrote [ -> ]I would argue the vast majority of the public couldn't care less what its called. Public confidence will only come back when the service is reliable.
If the service gets them from A to B on time in a semi comfortable state, they will gain confidence regardless of brand. A rebrand at this point without dramatic service improvement will just be seen as a wolf in sheeps clothing.
I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)
I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!
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My biggest issue with a re brand is the cost to do it all. I do not dare think how many millions of pounds of public money will be wasted changing everything over to a new brand.
It may be a moot point, like Virgin/LNER, they will probably have no choice but to re brand, i cant see Arriva wanting to allow there name to remain on the service when its been taken away from them. They may even own the "Northern" logo so would prompt a full rebrand.
(30 Jan 2020, 10:00 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I agree to some extent, but I also believe that starting fresh like they did with LNER (although in that case they obviously couldn't keep using Virgin branding!)
I obviously don't think just changing the name would instantly make it better, improvement to the service would be needed as well!
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Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.
Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.
(30 Jan 2020, 10:08 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Improvements need to be prioritized over the name more than owt else in my eyes, wouldn't look good immediately giving it a new name and still having the same issues although at the same time it's well known that Arriva has been stripped of the franchise so to some extents may as well ditch the name immediately to at least assume it's instantly a better service being provided.
Unsure if trains will continue to be refurbished or not which is annoying as some of the 158s going around are in a shocking state, seats battered to hell and well worn down, not a pleasant experience at all.
Fully agree. Improvements need to at least start before they think of spending money on a rebrand
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I had professional dealings with them circa 2016/17 (not long after they won the franchise) and it appeared that they were wanting to change and improve things.
It looked like things were slowly starting to unravel and key members of staff brought in to support the changes, appeared to up sticks and leave quite quickly.
Quite why that happened, I'm not 100% sure. Although it's not too hard to look at a time line of events and get a good idea of when things started to go wrong.
* Strikes on Saturdays.
* Customer Panel ceasing to function.
* DOO issues.
* Old stock.
* Refurbs and associated stock pressures.
* New stock not being delivered on time.
* Timetable issues.
* Issues with pathing for local connect services.
* plus a boat load of other issues, including the arrival of interim members of staff within key management roles.
When my professional dealings ended, I saw quite a poor level of performance from a passenger perspective.
Complaints were ignored initially and refunds not granted. I was in the fortunate position to have the names of a few people internally and they pushed my complaints forward.
Quite where others stood in the same situation, I am not sure.
A rebrand has appeared to work for LNER, although they have the luxury of being able to offer more 'on board' and had the basics to help them on their way.
I'm not sure whether a rebrand would work in this case.
The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.
(05 Feb 2020, 6:03 am)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]The main issue with Northern in the north east is the Durham coastal line which won't be fixed unless northern finds a way to make the Service more frequent on that line which can't be done with them sharing tracks between Sunderland and pelaw Junction. The only way I would see that working is some sort of agreement between Northern & Nexus to withdraw the metro on this section or make it less frequent on this section as well as Northern running extra carrridges.
Plenty of paths available between Pelaw and Sunderland. Withdrawing the Metro is a silly suggestion and would be catastrophic for passengers and the local economy.
(13 Feb 2020, 3:18 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Is it any surprise though when you think how much there is to go wrong on just about anything modern!
Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.
It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.
(13 Feb 2020, 5:57 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Even discounting the technological aspects of new trains they still manage to pick up issues, had one of them last week and the cab door wouldn't securely shut and went to the toilet towards the end of my journey and had water drip down onto my head from the roof. For some bizarre reason the 195s when I've had them keep announcing that not all of the train doors can be opened as the platform is too short at certain stations, Halifax being one of them when it is not the case.
It's not just Northern that has had issues with their new stock either, virtually every new fleet introduced in the last two years has been plagued with faults. Like you say, same applies to pretty much anything these days.
That's the issue with new things, theres always going to be issues. It's part of the reason I prefer staying a generation behind with all my technology and why we have never bought a 'new car' (and by that I mean at the beginning of the model life, we've bought several new cars that were towards the end of their life cycle). By waiting, all the issues are likely to be ironed out, or at least been seen before so the fix is known!
The Pacers aren't necessarily reliable, they've just been around so long that the maintenance team can see the issues before they get too bad and costly! With the new trains, they don't know what to look for yet. Plus, I bet they're like Trigger's Broom, there's nowt original left!
Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57
(03 May 2020, 11:49 pm)Robin57 wrote [ -> ]Have just got new icrs combine book and have found that all the class 144’s are now at Heaton depot is this true or a mistake! Robin57
Due to the introduction of the new fleet of 331's etc and limited space available at Neville Hill, the 144's were officially transferred to Heaton for maintenance purposes only following the withdrawal of the 142's. They did not officially 'operate out of' Heaton as it were i.e. they were not allocated to Heaton running boards. Due to COVID-19 the 144's have been parked up out of use at the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, it's unknown whether they will be used by Northern again.
It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.
For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.
It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.
It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.
(04 May 2020, 2:10 am)markydh wrote [ -> ]It’s impossible to link to, these days, but Northern’s December timetable application is open for consultation. Major changes afoot in all of the North East. Essentially, longer distance links will be severed to assist with punctuality.
For example, Morpeth trains will start / terminate in Newcastle, so will no longer connect with the Metrocentre. Similarly, most Hexham terminators / starters will only go as far as Newcastle.
It’s not totally clear what’s happening with the Durham Coast services, but there is mention of a second hourly path. It looks like they will also terminate in Newcastle, severing the link to the Metrocentre.
It looks like they are, once again, applying for a path connecting Middlesbrough to Durham and onwards to Newcastle and Carlisle via Stillington Branch. This has been rejected in the last few timetable periods due to the difficulty creating a reliable hourly path from the branch to the ECML without adversely affecting other long distance services.
Out of interest where did you see this? I've looked through the track access applications on ORR site and can't see anything?