Problematic Bus Situations
Problematic Bus Situations
(20 Dec 2020, 12:45 pm)Ambassador The starting prices of some of those new Northside homes is upwards of £260k - it's unlikely that no matter how many initiatives the council have that they'll ever make the switch and that's the problem.
There's no incentive to use public transport - you're talking 45 minutes from Birtley's new estates to Newcastle but the counter is even if an all singing dancing express came in, people still wouldn't use it.
I think we'll see some form of DRT up here (outside of Teesside) - it'll fail but they'll trial it.
(20 Dec 2020, 12:45 pm)Ambassador The starting prices of some of those new Northside homes is upwards of £260k - it's unlikely that no matter how many initiatives the council have that they'll ever make the switch and that's the problem.
There's no incentive to use public transport - you're talking 45 minutes from Birtley's new estates to Newcastle but the counter is even if an all singing dancing express came in, people still wouldn't use it.
I think we'll see some form of DRT up here (outside of Teesside) - it'll fail but they'll trial it.
(20 Dec 2020, 1:02 pm)Andreos1 But operators can do their bit locally. It doesn't have to be an all signing, all dancing express service which goes between Northside and Newcastle - it just needs to be something which works for the residents.
As an example, the kids can't get a bus along to Lord Lawson on a morning and they can't get the bus home. So mammy and daddy take them in the car. Then the habit has the potential to become ingrained.
Mammy can't get the bus to the shops or post office to return her latest asos delivery, after dropping the little un off at Ravensworth Terrace, so they use the car instead.
Daddy would leave the car and get the bus to his office job on Team Valley, but the trip is two buses in each direction and can take twice as long as it does in the car.
If that situation is repeated half a dozen times, in the various parts of Birtley (which it can quite easily be), then that's 30/40 extra cars on the road (on top of the traffic travelling to or through Birtley) causing issues to the various bus routes in Birtley.
Look at replicating a similar situation across T&W and no wonder we see all sorts of traffic problems and delays.
Ah and the endless harping on about needing bus priority measures.
If the operators served the market and potential market in the way passengers and potential passengers need, want and expect - maybe we wouldn't see the endless harping on about needing bus priority measures.
I was doing some consultancy work with a company who were struggling to identify and therefore meet their customers needs, wants and expectations prior to lockdown.
It was amazing to see the measures we put in to place kicking in and the subsequent adaptations they made once lockdown kicked in.
(20 Dec 2020, 1:02 pm)Andreos1 But operators can do their bit locally. It doesn't have to be an all signing, all dancing express service which goes between Northside and Newcastle - it just needs to be something which works for the residents.
As an example, the kids can't get a bus along to Lord Lawson on a morning and they can't get the bus home. So mammy and daddy take them in the car. Then the habit has the potential to become ingrained.
Mammy can't get the bus to the shops or post office to return her latest asos delivery, after dropping the little un off at Ravensworth Terrace, so they use the car instead.
Daddy would leave the car and get the bus to his office job on Team Valley, but the trip is two buses in each direction and can take twice as long as it does in the car.
If that situation is repeated half a dozen times, in the various parts of Birtley (which it can quite easily be), then that's 30/40 extra cars on the road (on top of the traffic travelling to or through Birtley) causing issues to the various bus routes in Birtley.
Look at replicating a similar situation across T&W and no wonder we see all sorts of traffic problems and delays.
Ah and the endless harping on about needing bus priority measures.
If the operators served the market and potential market in the way passengers and potential passengers need, want and expect - maybe we wouldn't see the endless harping on about needing bus priority measures.
I was doing some consultancy work with a company who were struggling to identify and therefore meet their customers needs, wants and expectations prior to lockdown.
It was amazing to see the measures we put in to place kicking in and the subsequent adaptations they made once lockdown kicked in.
It's funny we keep talking about buses here but it's crying out for a train to link all these places we've been mentioning. There's literally a line already there. If we reopened the Leamside Line which has been mooted for ages and actually would be beneficial but at same restore the link from Drum Ind. Estate in Birtley linking to the Leamside you've got a perfect loop service linking them all with stops like:
Newcastle, Saltwell (Team Valley North), Chowdene Bank (Team Valley South), Birtley (Perfect for Ouston to connect), Barley Mow, Rickleton / Harraton (Perfect for Rolls Royce / BAE), Fatfield, Barmston (Washington), Usworth (Perfect for Nissan with a bus link), Follingsby Park (Perfect for the new Amazon), Wardley, Heworth (Metro Connection), Gateshead Quays (Perfect for new arena), Newcastle... repeat
One railway line and you've pretty much linked all the major employment sites South of the Tyne and most of the line is already there infact bar about 100m in Washington with a R'bout it's all there. The link from the ECML / the new line might be a difficult though but should be doable.
Apart from Chowdene to Drum it's pretty much passing consistantly through urban areas which all have really poor bus connections currently. You could easily build P&R sites at Whitemare Poor / Chowdene Bank aswell to get cars out the urban areas as people might actually use them if it's quicker which it would be.
(20 Dec 2020, 6:42 pm)Storx It's funny we keep talking about buses here but it's crying out for a train to link all these places we've been mentioning. There's literally a line already there. If we reopened the Leamside Line which has been mooted for ages and actually would be beneficial but at same restore the link from Drum Ind. Estate in Birtley linking to the Leamside you've got a perfect loop service linking them all with stops like:
Newcastle, Saltwell (Team Valley North), Chowdene Bank (Team Valley South), Birtley (Perfect for Ouston to connect), Barley Mow, Rickleton / Harraton (Perfect for Rolls Royce / BAE), Fatfield, Barmston (Washington), Usworth (Perfect for Nissan with a bus link), Follingsby Park (Perfect for the new Amazon), Wardley, Heworth (Metro Connection), Gateshead Quays (Perfect for new arena), Newcastle... repeat
One railway line and you've pretty much linked all the major employment sites South of the Tyne and most of the line is already there infact bar about 100m in Washington with a R'bout it's all there. The link from the ECML / the new line might be a difficult though but should be doable.
Apart from Chowdene to Drum it's pretty much passing consistantly through urban areas which all have really poor bus connections currently. You could easily build P&R sites at Whitemare Poor / Chowdene Bank aswell to get cars out the urban areas as people might actually use them if it's quicker which it would be.
(20 Dec 2020, 6:42 pm)Storx It's funny we keep talking about buses here but it's crying out for a train to link all these places we've been mentioning. There's literally a line already there. If we reopened the Leamside Line which has been mooted for ages and actually would be beneficial but at same restore the link from Drum Ind. Estate in Birtley linking to the Leamside you've got a perfect loop service linking them all with stops like:
Newcastle, Saltwell (Team Valley North), Chowdene Bank (Team Valley South), Birtley (Perfect for Ouston to connect), Barley Mow, Rickleton / Harraton (Perfect for Rolls Royce / BAE), Fatfield, Barmston (Washington), Usworth (Perfect for Nissan with a bus link), Follingsby Park (Perfect for the new Amazon), Wardley, Heworth (Metro Connection), Gateshead Quays (Perfect for new arena), Newcastle... repeat
One railway line and you've pretty much linked all the major employment sites South of the Tyne and most of the line is already there infact bar about 100m in Washington with a R'bout it's all there. The link from the ECML / the new line might be a difficult though but should be doable.
Apart from Chowdene to Drum it's pretty much passing consistantly through urban areas which all have really poor bus connections currently. You could easily build P&R sites at Whitemare Poor / Chowdene Bank aswell to get cars out the urban areas as people might actually use them if it's quicker which it would be.
(20 Dec 2020, 6:46 pm)streetdeckfan Personally, I'd pick a slower, but more convenient bus service any day of the week! Chances are the train isn't within a short walking distance of the the house, so I'd be getting the bus to the train station, the getting the train, then probably just getting another bus from that train station to where I actually want to be.
To me, all that faff just isn't worth it unless it's cutting a 2 hour journey to a half hour journey.
(20 Dec 2020, 6:46 pm)streetdeckfan Personally, I'd pick a slower, but more convenient bus service any day of the week! Chances are the train isn't within a short walking distance of the the house, so I'd be getting the bus to the train station, the getting the train, then probably just getting another bus from that train station to where I actually want to be.
To me, all that faff just isn't worth it unless it's cutting a 2 hour journey to a half hour journey.
(20 Dec 2020, 5:55 pm)streetdeckfan When I was looking at moving, having access to good, frequent public transport (preferably GNE because of ticketing) was at the top of the list of priorities, and to be honest it was surprisingly challenging.
My mother lives in Crook, and despite it looking like they have pretty good links on the surface, from her house it's a 1 mile walk to get the bus to Durham, and a half mile walk to get the bus to Bishop/Darlington. That was enough to stop me using the bus at all for the couple years that I lived there.
When I was up in Gateshead and had a 10 minute frequency service with the 49, I'd use the bus all the time, it was often faster and easier than using the car, especially if going to Gateshead or even Newcastle on the half hourly X30, the fact that the bus stop was basically 30 seconds from the front door was great too! So like I say, when moving that was my number one priority.
So when searching for the house, I basically just followed the bus routes until I found an area that was tolerable (yes, I had my standards set quite low because frequent buses tend to run through dodgy areas!)
(20 Dec 2020, 5:55 pm)streetdeckfan When I was looking at moving, having access to good, frequent public transport (preferably GNE because of ticketing) was at the top of the list of priorities, and to be honest it was surprisingly challenging.
My mother lives in Crook, and despite it looking like they have pretty good links on the surface, from her house it's a 1 mile walk to get the bus to Durham, and a half mile walk to get the bus to Bishop/Darlington. That was enough to stop me using the bus at all for the couple years that I lived there.
When I was up in Gateshead and had a 10 minute frequency service with the 49, I'd use the bus all the time, it was often faster and easier than using the car, especially if going to Gateshead or even Newcastle on the half hourly X30, the fact that the bus stop was basically 30 seconds from the front door was great too! So like I say, when moving that was my number one priority.
So when searching for the house, I basically just followed the bus routes until I found an area that was tolerable (yes, I had my standards set quite low because frequent buses tend to run through dodgy areas!)
(20 Dec 2020, 8:03 pm)Andreos1 I've followed a similar pattern in the past, with the last three houses I've bought.
Made very little difference in the grand scheme of things, as with two of those houses we lost a number of links - including direct ones to Newcastle.
When I bought a house in Durham, the motorway, station and bus routes were all factors.
However our priorities could be different to someone elses. Schools, nightlife, retail, employment and whatever else might be the things someone else looks at and public transport may be at the very bottom of the list.
If public transport is at the bottom of the list, operators can either do something about it and make the provision appealing (see the mention of the new estate in Birtley and the ludicrous one way loop of the 81/82 which means residents can't use the bus to the shops and the decision to increase journey times on the 25) or just not bother.
I've not lived in Birtley for almost 30 years, but having returned on a regular basis to see friends and family the transport provision is one I've kept an eye on.
As a kid growing up, there was the 26, 721, 727 and later the 777 which stopped 5/10mins away.
The 551 was a bit further to walk, as was the 725, 726, 183 and a minibus which ran up Vigo Lane and operated between Chester and Washington (can't remember the number).
The number of cars per household was a lot lower than now - yet there wasn't a bus which entered the estate and made life easier or stopped my Mam dragging me down to Presto and then back up Harras Bank.
There was the option of getting a bus back up, but it meant my mam was clock watching and reliant on us coming out of the shops as the bus was due. Once my first sibling came along and a pram was needed, the bus just wasn't an option at all.
Needless to say, in the early 90s the decision to become a two-car household was made.
Fast forward 30 years and not much has changed for the better.
The 26, 183, 551, 721, 726, 727, 777 and Chester based minibus are all long gone. The 25 (what was the 725) is clearly viewed as second rate and whilst the 82 enters Vigo and stops at the end of my old street in one direction, it's only good if you fancy a trip to the Galleries or hanging around bus stops in Birtley.
Nexus to their credit have secured the 23 and TB14 - but they're not that frequent.
Car use has gone through the roof and instead of each household having one car if they're lucky - they now have at least 2.
But yeah, WiFi, fancy tables and bus priority measures will fix things
(20 Dec 2020, 8:03 pm)Andreos1 I've followed a similar pattern in the past, with the last three houses I've bought.
Made very little difference in the grand scheme of things, as with two of those houses we lost a number of links - including direct ones to Newcastle.
When I bought a house in Durham, the motorway, station and bus routes were all factors.
However our priorities could be different to someone elses. Schools, nightlife, retail, employment and whatever else might be the things someone else looks at and public transport may be at the very bottom of the list.
If public transport is at the bottom of the list, operators can either do something about it and make the provision appealing (see the mention of the new estate in Birtley and the ludicrous one way loop of the 81/82 which means residents can't use the bus to the shops and the decision to increase journey times on the 25) or just not bother.
I've not lived in Birtley for almost 30 years, but having returned on a regular basis to see friends and family the transport provision is one I've kept an eye on.
As a kid growing up, there was the 26, 721, 727 and later the 777 which stopped 5/10mins away.
The 551 was a bit further to walk, as was the 725, 726, 183 and a minibus which ran up Vigo Lane and operated between Chester and Washington (can't remember the number).
The number of cars per household was a lot lower than now - yet there wasn't a bus which entered the estate and made life easier or stopped my Mam dragging me down to Presto and then back up Harras Bank.
There was the option of getting a bus back up, but it meant my mam was clock watching and reliant on us coming out of the shops as the bus was due. Once my first sibling came along and a pram was needed, the bus just wasn't an option at all.
Needless to say, in the early 90s the decision to become a two-car household was made.
Fast forward 30 years and not much has changed for the better.
The 26, 183, 551, 721, 726, 727, 777 and Chester based minibus are all long gone. The 25 (what was the 725) is clearly viewed as second rate and whilst the 82 enters Vigo and stops at the end of my old street in one direction, it's only good if you fancy a trip to the Galleries or hanging around bus stops in Birtley.
Nexus to their credit have secured the 23 and TB14 - but they're not that frequent.
Car use has gone through the roof and instead of each household having one car if they're lucky - they now have at least 2.
But yeah, WiFi, fancy tables and bus priority measures will fix things
(20 Dec 2020, 8:38 pm)streetdeckfan I suppose it's probably because I have the anti-car mindset rather than the anti-public transport mindset that every bugger else seems to have!
But also, I think access to good public transport also helps with those other priorities.
If access to your workplace is important, maybe having a 10 minute bus ride could be more appealing than living closer but being stuck in traffic for 20 minutes.
If access to nightlife is important, having a bus directly into your city of choice could make that happen
For me, having a house 5 miles away from the Metrocentre but with good public transport links would be far more convenient than being 1 mile away but without any public transport at all.
And I definitely agree about new housing estates, they need to be designed with public transport in mind. And with the size of some of these new estates, you need a bus just to get to the main road!
I almost get the impression that with all the tight bends they're designed to NOT allow easy access for buses!
And on your point about the WiFi and fancy tables, I think they do have a place on longer, already established routes, and if we're to believe what GNE say it does seem to work.
I know not everyone is like me, but if the X21 didn't have tables so I could do work on the go, I would think about getting a car and saving the extra hour the bus takes.
I think for routes like the Angel, the they don't make as much sense, because if you're going the full route, you'd just use the X21 instead.
(20 Dec 2020, 8:38 pm)streetdeckfan I suppose it's probably because I have the anti-car mindset rather than the anti-public transport mindset that every bugger else seems to have!
But also, I think access to good public transport also helps with those other priorities.
If access to your workplace is important, maybe having a 10 minute bus ride could be more appealing than living closer but being stuck in traffic for 20 minutes.
If access to nightlife is important, having a bus directly into your city of choice could make that happen
For me, having a house 5 miles away from the Metrocentre but with good public transport links would be far more convenient than being 1 mile away but without any public transport at all.
And I definitely agree about new housing estates, they need to be designed with public transport in mind. And with the size of some of these new estates, you need a bus just to get to the main road!
I almost get the impression that with all the tight bends they're designed to NOT allow easy access for buses!
And on your point about the WiFi and fancy tables, I think they do have a place on longer, already established routes, and if we're to believe what GNE say it does seem to work.
I know not everyone is like me, but if the X21 didn't have tables so I could do work on the go, I would think about getting a car and saving the extra hour the bus takes.
I think for routes like the Angel, the they don't make as much sense, because if you're going the full route, you'd just use the X21 instead.
(21 Dec 2020, 2:43 pm)Andreos1 The potential market attracted by tables and WiFi will be limited by virtue of the population of the routes they serve.
There's only so many people who can fit on to a bus and the frequency can only be increased if demand exceeds the offer.
If they look to open up new markets or serve markets which are under-served, then the potential can be far greater.
As it stands, operators are putting their money on the WiFi and fancy tables. They think that's what people want.
I think those people open to using public transport, want a bus which will meet their needs, taking them to where they need and want to be.
It goes back to needs, wants and expectations. Those passengers who board the X21 may have their expectations exceeded by the WiFi and fancy tables.
The ones who can't get a bus anywhere, are still looking for their needs and wants to be even considered.
(21 Dec 2020, 2:43 pm)Andreos1 The potential market attracted by tables and WiFi will be limited by virtue of the population of the routes they serve.
There's only so many people who can fit on to a bus and the frequency can only be increased if demand exceeds the offer.
If they look to open up new markets or serve markets which are under-served, then the potential can be far greater.
As it stands, operators are putting their money on the WiFi and fancy tables. They think that's what people want.
I think those people open to using public transport, want a bus which will meet their needs, taking them to where they need and want to be.
It goes back to needs, wants and expectations. Those passengers who board the X21 may have their expectations exceeded by the WiFi and fancy tables.
The ones who can't get a bus anywhere, are still looking for their needs and wants to be even considered.
(22 Dec 2020, 10:43 am)streetdeckfan But arguably the cost of installing the WiFi and fancy tables is significantly lower than launching new routes, which require new vehicles, new drivers etc. so while I agree the potential is far greater, it also has a much more significant outlay and a lot more risk.
I personally think that the underserved areas are probably more suitable for the independents rather than the big groups, they have much lower overheads so a route that isn't viable for the likes of GNE and Arriva could be profitable for the likes of Weardale or Stanley.
But then you have the issue of ticketing, especially outside of T&W where multi-operator tickets are basically non-existent.
I believe that is one of the key objectives NE-Bus and once COVID is under control hopefully they can sort something out.
(22 Dec 2020, 10:43 am)streetdeckfan But arguably the cost of installing the WiFi and fancy tables is significantly lower than launching new routes, which require new vehicles, new drivers etc. so while I agree the potential is far greater, it also has a much more significant outlay and a lot more risk.
I personally think that the underserved areas are probably more suitable for the independents rather than the big groups, they have much lower overheads so a route that isn't viable for the likes of GNE and Arriva could be profitable for the likes of Weardale or Stanley.
But then you have the issue of ticketing, especially outside of T&W where multi-operator tickets are basically non-existent.
I believe that is one of the key objectives NE-Bus and once COVID is under control hopefully they can sort something out.
(22 Dec 2020, 11:08 am)Andreos1 It doesn't need to be a whole new route set up bu an independent in some of the examples though.
Just a variation of existing routes, which ensure they meet customers needs and wants.
In the example of the new estate in Birtley and the lack of links TO the shops and school, it doesn't need to see a new route.
Tweaking and adapting existing services could see a whole new market attracted to the local routes AND open up new opportunities to increase numbers on the 21 or other services through Birtley.
The 25, 28 and 82 could all have parts of their routes adapted or tweaked (even if it is just at certain times of the day) to better serve the needs and wants of the population of the new estate and the outlay would be minimal.
Common stops could be introduced for the 82 and 28. Again, minimal outlay.
Connection times could be looked at for those getting off a 21 or 28 but needing to board an 82 for the final leg of the journey. Yet again, minimal outlay.
Adaptations to three services, which could impact positively on at least four and has the potential to remove quite a few cars off the road.
If the same exercise is carried in other towns, villages and communities across the region, the impact could be massive.
As I say, look to exceed expectations for some passengers or look to meet the needs and wants of far more?
(22 Dec 2020, 11:08 am)Andreos1 It doesn't need to be a whole new route set up bu an independent in some of the examples though.
Just a variation of existing routes, which ensure they meet customers needs and wants.
In the example of the new estate in Birtley and the lack of links TO the shops and school, it doesn't need to see a new route.
Tweaking and adapting existing services could see a whole new market attracted to the local routes AND open up new opportunities to increase numbers on the 21 or other services through Birtley.
The 25, 28 and 82 could all have parts of their routes adapted or tweaked (even if it is just at certain times of the day) to better serve the needs and wants of the population of the new estate and the outlay would be minimal.
Common stops could be introduced for the 82 and 28. Again, minimal outlay.
Connection times could be looked at for those getting off a 21 or 28 but needing to board an 82 for the final leg of the journey. Yet again, minimal outlay.
Adaptations to three services, which could impact positively on at least four and has the potential to remove quite a few cars off the road.
If the same exercise is carried in other towns, villages and communities across the region, the impact could be massive.
As I say, look to exceed expectations for some passengers or look to meet the needs and wants of far more?
(22 Dec 2020, 12:47 pm)streetdeckfan I totally agree.
I'm not very familiar with the areas you mention, or how much of a diversion it would be, but could it not be an issue of them not wanting to 'bloat' the route too much?
I know when they re-routed the X21 through Woodhouse to cut out the estate and run straight down Proudfoot, that saving in journey time allowed them to extend the route all the way to West Auckland without affecting the vehicle/driver requirements.
But then again, West Auckland is already very well served by the Arriva 6 and it left half of Woodhouse without a bus service meaning the council is now having to subsidise a Weardale service around the estate. And from what I've been told, that was done purely so GNE could ditch the outstation in Crook with the intention always being to pull the service from Woodhouse but doing it in stages to reduce the outrage!
(22 Dec 2020, 12:47 pm)streetdeckfan I totally agree.
I'm not very familiar with the areas you mention, or how much of a diversion it would be, but could it not be an issue of them not wanting to 'bloat' the route too much?
I know when they re-routed the X21 through Woodhouse to cut out the estate and run straight down Proudfoot, that saving in journey time allowed them to extend the route all the way to West Auckland without affecting the vehicle/driver requirements.
But then again, West Auckland is already very well served by the Arriva 6 and it left half of Woodhouse without a bus service meaning the council is now having to subsidise a Weardale service around the estate. And from what I've been told, that was done purely so GNE could ditch the outstation in Crook with the intention always being to pull the service from Woodhouse but doing it in stages to reduce the outrage!
(22 Dec 2020, 1:31 pm)Andreos1 Very little effort or 'bloating' at all.
As an example, the 25 could easily be diverted down Blackfell Way and along Birtley Lane towards Chester (obviously in reverse in the other direction) during the school peaks. This would not only allow kids to get a bus to and from school, it could also reduce the number of cars in the area.
I reckon it would need very little adding to the timetable versus its normal running time along Portmeads Road.
The stop opposite the Library/Cenotaph has the 28 stopping there, but not the 82.
Give passengers the option of using that stop and you're opening up new and easier opportunities to get to the QE. As it stands, passengers who use the 82 and change on to the 28 are forced to get off at one stop (bus stop 1 on the first image), walk across Station Lane, carry on for 50yds or so and wait for another (infrequent) bus at bus stop 2.
As it stands, it's not really worth the hassle in doing the journey that way.
The southbound journey is even worse. Getting off the 28 at bus stop 3 or the 21 at bus stop 4 and having to walk to bus stop 1 for an 82 back home.
Depending where you live in Birtley, you could board a 23 at bus stop 4, but potentially there is the need a different type of ticket or an extra cost.
It's little things like that which need improving.
Continuous improvement and tweaks, which could make things so much easier for passengers and (regardless of any tables and WiFi), make travelling by bus more attractive.
There are many further examples just in Birtley alone of public transport not quite hitting the mark.
The 25 and 81 run along Portobello Road, but don't enter Vigo or Barley Mow where the passengers actually live and walk to & from the bus stop.
The 82 enters Vigo in both directions, but does a weird loop with a canny distance between Birtley bound (B1 on the second image) and Washington bound buses. (W1 & W2). Depending where on Vigo you live and where the bus stop is, you could be driving out of the estate and well on your way somewhere before you get anywhere near the bus stop.
Just to add the 23 to the mix, it stops at B2.
I've no idea which stop Birtley bound passengers gamble on if they're on Windermere mind. Stand in the middle of the road perhaps and run as fast as you can up or down the hill when you see a bus approaching?
Edit: Forgot to add images.
(22 Dec 2020, 1:31 pm)Andreos1 Very little effort or 'bloating' at all.
As an example, the 25 could easily be diverted down Blackfell Way and along Birtley Lane towards Chester (obviously in reverse in the other direction) during the school peaks. This would not only allow kids to get a bus to and from school, it could also reduce the number of cars in the area.
I reckon it would need very little adding to the timetable versus its normal running time along Portmeads Road.
The stop opposite the Library/Cenotaph has the 28 stopping there, but not the 82.
Give passengers the option of using that stop and you're opening up new and easier opportunities to get to the QE. As it stands, passengers who use the 82 and change on to the 28 are forced to get off at one stop (bus stop 1 on the first image), walk across Station Lane, carry on for 50yds or so and wait for another (infrequent) bus at bus stop 2.
As it stands, it's not really worth the hassle in doing the journey that way.
The southbound journey is even worse. Getting off the 28 at bus stop 3 or the 21 at bus stop 4 and having to walk to bus stop 1 for an 82 back home.
Depending where you live in Birtley, you could board a 23 at bus stop 4, but potentially there is the need a different type of ticket or an extra cost.
It's little things like that which need improving.
Continuous improvement and tweaks, which could make things so much easier for passengers and (regardless of any tables and WiFi), make travelling by bus more attractive.
There are many further examples just in Birtley alone of public transport not quite hitting the mark.
The 25 and 81 run along Portobello Road, but don't enter Vigo or Barley Mow where the passengers actually live and walk to & from the bus stop.
The 82 enters Vigo in both directions, but does a weird loop with a canny distance between Birtley bound (B1 on the second image) and Washington bound buses. (W1 & W2). Depending where on Vigo you live and where the bus stop is, you could be driving out of the estate and well on your way somewhere before you get anywhere near the bus stop.
Just to add the 23 to the mix, it stops at B2.
I've no idea which stop Birtley bound passengers gamble on if they're on Windermere mind. Stand in the middle of the road perhaps and run as fast as you can up or down the hill when you see a bus approaching?
Edit: Forgot to add images.
(22 Dec 2020, 8:36 pm)Storx See if I was going to mess around with Birtley I'd change the 25 differently and keep it roughly the same but serve Blackfell Way additionally. I'd change the bottom half of the route though and instead of heading towards Barley Mow, I'd go towards Rickleton and Harraton and do a loop around there before going to CLS via Picktree and then terminate it there. Then extend 2 of the short 21's to do the rest of the 25 bus route so they don't have sit on a magical bus tour around Birtley and Wrekenton - it gives you the ability to make the 25 a bit longer in places without punishing anyone.
At the same time I'd look at sending the 50 upto Barley Mow and along Vigo Lane before rejoining it's bus route instead of going express along the A1(M), the time can't be too much different and it gives the bottom end of Birtley new bus links to Durham, Nissan and South Shields and getting arid of the 50A as it's no longer needed between CLS and Washington (replaced by 25).
For the 82 I'd probably try and extend it to Gateshead hourly via the 28 bus route to replace the 925 so it eliminates the change you were mentioning anyway and gives a service every 30 minutes through Eighton Banks (there's no PVR change) - I know you'd have to change the loop a bit.
(22 Dec 2020, 8:36 pm)Storx See if I was going to mess around with Birtley I'd change the 25 differently and keep it roughly the same but serve Blackfell Way additionally. I'd change the bottom half of the route though and instead of heading towards Barley Mow, I'd go towards Rickleton and Harraton and do a loop around there before going to CLS via Picktree and then terminate it there. Then extend 2 of the short 21's to do the rest of the 25 bus route so they don't have sit on a magical bus tour around Birtley and Wrekenton - it gives you the ability to make the 25 a bit longer in places without punishing anyone.
At the same time I'd look at sending the 50 upto Barley Mow and along Vigo Lane before rejoining it's bus route instead of going express along the A1(M), the time can't be too much different and it gives the bottom end of Birtley new bus links to Durham, Nissan and South Shields and getting arid of the 50A as it's no longer needed between CLS and Washington (replaced by 25).
For the 82 I'd probably try and extend it to Gateshead hourly via the 28 bus route to replace the 925 so it eliminates the change you were mentioning anyway and gives a service every 30 minutes through Eighton Banks (there's no PVR change) - I know you'd have to change the loop a bit.
Wasn't sure where to put this and didn't want to create a new thread for the sake of one post.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57571881
Id never really considered the actual time saving that a bus lane could have on a particular service.
In this case, the bus lane will save approx 40 seconds per bus. According to council figures.
(22 Jun 2021, 10:06 pm)Andreos1 Wasn't sure where to put this and didn't want to create a new thread for the sake of one post.I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57571881
Id never really considered the actual time saving that a bus lane could have on a particular service.
In this case, the bus lane will save approx 40 seconds per bus. According to council figures.
(22 Jun 2021, 10:06 pm)Andreos1 Wasn't sure where to put this and didn't want to create a new thread for the sake of one post.I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57571881
Id never really considered the actual time saving that a bus lane could have on a particular service.
In this case, the bus lane will save approx 40 seconds per bus. According to council figures.
(23 Jun 2021, 5:53 pm)ifm001 I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
If I remember correctly the car came last due to the queuing traffic and then finding a car park with spaces and then walking to the office
The bus came second although it did get to the city centre first the walk from the bus station delayed the final section. The cyclist arrived at the office first, due to the bike being able to be locked up directly outside the office and no walking from car parks or bus stations
(23 Jun 2021, 5:53 pm)ifm001 I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
If I remember correctly the car came last due to the queuing traffic and then finding a car park with spaces and then walking to the office
The bus came second although it did get to the city centre first the walk from the bus station delayed the final section. The cyclist arrived at the office first, due to the bike being able to be locked up directly outside the office and no walking from car parks or bus stations
(23 Jun 2021, 5:53 pm)ifm001 I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
If I remember correctly the car came last due to the queuing traffic and then finding a car park with spaces and then walking to the office
The bus came second although it did get to the city centre first the walk from the bus station delayed the final section. The cyclist arrived at the office first, due to the bike being able to be locked up directly outside the office and no walking from car parks or bus stations
(23 Jun 2021, 8:07 pm)idiot I'm really enjoying my cycle commute this weekoff topic sorry!
(23 Jun 2021, 5:53 pm)ifm001 I read an article a few years back re the bus lane on the Durham Road in Sunderland stretching from the A690 /A19 Doxford roundabout via East Herrington, Prospect,Barnes Roundabout into Sunderland. A few guys in an office did a car, bus and cycle challenge each using one mode of travel, to establish what was actually quickest.
If I remember correctly the car came last due to the queuing traffic and then finding a car park with spaces and then walking to the office
The bus came second although it did get to the city centre first the walk from the bus station delayed the final section. The cyclist arrived at the office first, due to the bike being able to be locked up directly outside the office and no walking from car parks or bus stations
(23 Jun 2021, 8:07 pm)idiot I'm really enjoying my cycle commute this week
