(04 Jan 2023, 7:27 pm)Storx wrote The cynic in me says that the decision has already been made about these and the consultation will be ignored considering the routes are already out for tender.

Are all nexus routes out for tender

(04 Jan 2023, 9:21 pm)Thomas12 wrote Yes, but probably more than 1-2 passengers per trip. That isn't offering good value, and most of the routes that are being cancelled have alternatives. 

Other secured services such as the 19, 317 etc. will carry a lot more than that on most if not all journeys.

Thing with the 84 at least is, it's almost entirely duplicated by other commercial routes, the only real loss is the small section that's hail & ride and its a loss of a bus to/from the Metrocentre from those areas which isn't great but there's alternatives for shopping.

Unfortunately I think we'll be seeing a lot more cuts of existing tendered services across the country especially with numbers as low as the 84 is apparently carrying (ridden it before, actually believable). Savings also need to be made to ensure other services which weren't previously tendered can actually be funded instead (example, GNE service 25).

(04 Jan 2023, 9:47 pm)Aaron21 wrote Are all nexus routes out for tender

See previous discussion.

Go North East - 19
Stagecoach -  32/32A, 35, 54, 317
Gateshead Central Taxis - 335, 342, W1
Stanley Travel - X46

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(04 Jan 2023, 10:30 pm)Jimmi wrote Thing with the 84 at least is, it's almost entirely duplicated by other commercial routes, the only real loss is the small section that's hail & ride and its a loss of a bus to/from the Metrocentre from those areas which isn't great but there's alternatives for shopping.

Unfortunately I think we'll be seeing a lot more cuts of existing tendered services across the country especially with numbers as low as the 84 is apparently carrying (ridden it before, actually believable). Savings also need to be made to ensure other services which weren't previously tendered can actually be funded instead (example, GNE service 25).

Personally, I think it's a disgrace losing tendered services because of GNE creating more of them like the 25, 28, 29. Makes a postcode lottery, some people losing the 84 for example to save the 25. Not saying we should keep the 84 and lose the 25, but the 25 shouldn't have needed rescuing when finding is limited at comes at the expense of another service.

When Stanley Travel had the 84/84A it had much healthier passenger numbers. Of course that was before the pandemic, but GCT have really made it unusable. At least twice I've wanted the 84A and it didn't turn up, I was also with someone else the first time, so that's 3 single fares lost in October alone. Plus if the service was more reliable the day ticket would be an option.

(04 Jan 2023, 10:49 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote When Stanley Travel had the 84/84A it had much healthier passenger numbers. Of course that was before the pandemic, but GCT have really made it unusable. At least twice I've wanted the 84A and it didn't turn up, I was also with someone else the first time, so that's 3 single fares lost in October alone. Plus if the service was more reliable the day ticket would be an option.

If you're not already, please make sure you're reporting any unreliability or performance issues directly to Nexus, given it's a service they're financially supporting.

customerrelations@nexus.org.uk is often easier than filling out their web form.

(05 Jan 2023, 9:20 am)Adrian wrote If you're not already, please make sure you're reporting any unreliability or performance issues directly to Nexus, given it's a service they're financially supporting.

customerrelations@nexus.org.uk is often easier than filling out their web form.

Nexus aren't interested. The same thing happened when Gateshead Central Taxis had the evening 32A, they didn't follow the route and missed some trips completely, making it unusable and passenger numbers fell, so the service ended up withdrawn. Yes, tendered routes have low passenger numbers so are secured rather than commercial, but it's GCT's poor running of them making the passenger numbers as low as 0 and on average 1-2 customers.

Because of the pandemic it's harder to see other factors, but if me and my family could rely on GCT services that 1-2 on a trip becomes 4-5, double and more, with a day ticket available 2 trips are looking at 4-5. Small difference, granted, but I have overheard complains and I know more people would use a more reliable service.

Even with hardly using the 84/84A I've been let down 3 times, twice recently and the other time much earlier in the year. 2 of those occasions they lost 2 single fares. Doesn't inspire regular use when even occasional use leads to disappointment, inconvenience and frustration.

Does this year's tender include any major route cuts like last year?

(05 Jan 2023, 4:17 pm)L469 YVK wrote Does this year's tender include any major route cuts like last year?

I'm going to assume not, as there isn't really much commercial stuff left to cut.

(04 Jan 2023, 9:19 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote From what I've seen the X46 has decent loadings.

The peak runs I see most days carry 2-3 at most when I see them coming into Gosforth, certainly in general they seem quieter than when Arriva operated them. Most people along the GNR, Regent Centre, Gosforth High Street will let the X46 go past because it limits their return option - that wasn't an issue when it was Arriva operated. Probably a similar demand from Great Park, but otherwise I'd be very surprised if anyone chose that over anything else on that corridor (even the Q3 is more frequent and, while slower, is more useful given it runs all night too).

(05 Jan 2023, 11:56 pm)mb134 wrote The peak runs I see most days carry 2-3 at most when I see them coming into Gosforth, certainly in general they seem quieter than when Arriva operated them. Most people along the GNR, Regent Centre, Gosforth High Street will let the X46 go past because it limits their return option - that wasn't an issue when it was Arriva operated. Probably a similar demand from Great Park, but otherwise I'd be very surprised if anyone chose that over anything else on that corridor (even the Q3 is more frequent and, while slower, is more useful given it runs all night too).

Yes, the X46 has the same problem as many tendered services, limited ticket options. That's why the 19, 32/32A, 35 and 317 all perform better, they are operated by a major operator with other connecting buses. Arriva was the best operator for the X46, or GNE (because of the Q3). Stagecoach are getting the 342 in March apparently. Not many operators have capacity for taking on more work, so I'm guessing Stanley Travel will keep the X46. Maybe A-Line could pick up some work and I'm guessing Phoenix will get something, with the M6/552 being cancelled.

(06 Jan 2023, 1:05 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote Yes, the X46 has the same problem as many tendered services, limited ticket options. That's why the 19, 32/32A, 35 and 317 all perform better, they are operated by a major operator with other connecting buses. Arriva was the best operator for the X46, or GNE (because of the Q3). Stagecoach are getting the 342 in March apparently. Not many operators have capacity for taking on more work, so I'm guessing Stanley Travel will keep the X46. Maybe A-Line could pick up some work and I'm guessing Phoenix will get something, with the M6/552 being cancelled.

Where did you here that Stagecoach are getting the 342? The tender process hasn't concluded yet, so not sure how this could be true (although I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it won't be known yet)

(03 Jan 2023, 12:41 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Ah, okay. Thanks.

I don't expect the 54 or X46 will change operators, but that's just a gut feeling, and on the basis I can't think who else could operate them.

There is never any way to tell, it is done entirely on a bidding process.

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(06 Jan 2023, 12:46 pm)Thomas12 wrote Where did you here that Stagecoach are getting the 342? The tender process hasn't concluded yet, so not sure how this could be true (although I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it won't be known yet)

It is not true, nobody knows yet as the tendering wont be concluded.

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(03 Jan 2023, 12:28 pm)Thomas12 wrote I am wondering if we will see GCT bidding for less considering they have a decent amount of work in Durham - and they have already handed back the 516 contract. On the downside, this may mean Nexus struggle to cover all services.

The 516 service was not "Handed Back", it was subject to a new contract.

(03 Jan 2023, 10:25 am)Thomas12 wrote I notice that Nexus have issued a tender notice for services in North Tyneside and Newcastle, with a start date of March 2023, and a duration of 1 year.

I'm not sure of the route details, but I'm assuming they'll be the same as now. Nexus usually put out consultations if things are changing and I haven't noticed any.

There are a number of consultations out at the moment.
There is consultation on the cancellation of the: K2/84,84A/M6/552/Section of 51/Extension of 41,41a 

Consultation | nexus.org.uk

(06 Jan 2023, 12:46 pm)Thomas12 wrote Where did you here that Stagecoach are getting the 342? The tender process hasn't concluded yet, so not sure how this could be true (although I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it won't be known yet)

Stagecoach driver (Slatyford). Given the driver shortages being seen across the industry, Stagecoach is probably the best option. Personally I'd like to see Phoenix or Stanley Travel get it but for ticket options Stagecoach is the best fit. Likewise the 317. 

Just a gut feeling, I don't think we'll see anything change other than GCT concentrating on Durham and the consultation services being cancelled, perhaps freeing up Phoenix to potentially bid for a service or two.

(06 Jan 2023, 2:09 pm)BusesInTheNorth wrote There are a number of consultations out at the moment.
There is consultation on the cancellation of the: K2/84,84A/M6/552/Section of 51/Extension of 41,41a 

Consultation | nexus.org.uk

Sounds like members of this forum are the only people who use these buses.

(07 Jan 2023, 1:39 am)deanmachine wrote Sounds like members of this forum are the only people who use these buses.

That sounds true. I deliberately got on the 51 extension yesterday and only 4 other people got on. It was a decker as well

Does anybody know if the bus budget has been increased for NEXUS next year?

Stagecoach Newcastle now have enough drivers to cover duties and lend drivers to other depots, so any new contract awards will be covered, partially thanks to the difficulties at Go North East and Arriva...

I'm hoping that GNE don't get the 317 contract. No need for them to since it's just there withdrawn 11 which was withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. Even if they do get it back they will just allocate solos to it

(07 Jan 2023, 12:14 pm)Aaron21 wrote I'm hoping that GNE don't get the 317 contract. No need for them to since it's just there withdrawn 11 which was withdrawn due to low passenger numbers. Even if they do get it back they will just allocate solos to it

Surely they would allocate whatever the Nexus spec was on the contract.  If it required a large single deck, then that is what would need to be allocated?

Can bus operators get fined for not using the bus required in the contract?

(07 Jan 2023, 12:44 pm)NEbushopper wrote Can bus operators get fined for not using the bus required in the contract?

Yes, you can get a finanical penalty for things like wrong Euro rating if it is less (ie E5 on a E6 contract) and also for wrong capacity (ie a single decker on a double deck), or even a contract that says 84 capacity, and bus operators but a vehicle on with 77 capacity.

(07 Jan 2023, 3:40 pm)citaro5284 wrote Yes, you can get a finanical penalty for things like wrong Euro rating if it is less (ie E5 on a E6 contract) and also for wrong capacity (ie a single decker on a double deck), or even a contract that says 84 capacity, and bus operators but a vehicle on with 77 capacity.

Pretty sure it happens to GNE when 28/29/25 aren't a Euro 6 Vehicle.

(07 Jan 2023, 3:53 pm)Unber43 wrote Pretty sure it happens to GNE when 28/29/25 aren't a Euro 6 Vehicle.

But how would nexus know? A 16 plate Euro 5 streetlite looks identical to a 17 plate Euro 6 streetlite

(07 Jan 2023, 4:20 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote But how would nexus know? A 16 plate Euro 5 streetlite looks identical to a 17 plate Euro 6 streetlite

Operators provide vehicle specification data, and Nexus cross reference this with their data returns.

(07 Jan 2023, 3:53 pm)Unber43 wrote Pretty sure it happens to GNE when 28/29/25 aren't a Euro 6 Vehicle.

Aren't these County Durham contracts anyway so likely won't have a Euro 6 clause in them.

(07 Jan 2023, 5:00 pm)Storx wrote Aren't these County Durham contracts anyway so likely won't have a Euro 6 clause in them.

I have no idea how County Durham contracts normally work however they're going into Newcastle which will become a Euro 6 Clean Air Zone in a few weeks so maybe this was an exception, I have no idea if County Durham don't usually put Euro X clauses into them, pretty sure they might have done with the Cathedral & P&R.

(07 Jan 2023, 5:00 pm)Storx wrote Aren't these County Durham contracts anyway so likely won't have a Euro 6 clause in them.

25 and 29 are probably Nexus I'd imagine.

25 is Nexus; 28/29 are Durham - all require Euro VI buses

I'm thinking with the 51. If they do cut it from Holystone. They should at least extend it to Northumberland Park to give people that connection to continue on to Whitley Bay