(31 Aug 2014, 8:20 pm)Kuyoyo wrote The depot can take deckers in the fuel line and wash - it's when it comes to maintenance they can't. Stockton doesn't have pits, all work underneath is done on lifts and that's when the roof beams come into play - they are too low to accommodate a decker.

Could they not take them to another depot, e.g Redcar, when they require maintenance?

(31 Aug 2014, 8:21 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Oh no, parking is fine, as its uncovered, but when they need work doing (such as maintenance and tests) they would be unable to lift the deckers without putting a hole in the roof.

Ahh, understand now

(31 Aug 2014, 8:21 pm)mb134 wrote Could they not take them to another depot, e.g Redcar, when they require maintenance?

They could - if you want them stuck there for days and days. We all know Redcar's record in that area.

(31 Aug 2014, 7:59 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote I don't see Arriva reducing the X2 at any point in the future either. If it was going to happen, it would have already happened by now. I think that whilst it may not carry as many as the 21 or X21, it still provides a link between the Durham & Northumbria regions, that would otherwise be severed. I think on that basis, even if it made nothing, Arriva would keep it, to ensure value for money in their full north east tickets. Withdrawing it would reduce their value for money by 50% overnight.

Of course the suggestion was based on the basis that the operations would move to Durham... As this in itself is unlikely, the suggestion is also unlikely. I haven't done any research, but as the operation is split between two depots, I'd imagine it'd be harder to continue a half hourly frequency on service X1 whilst making changes that see service X2 downgraded to an hourly frequency.

I'd argue that the value for money for the ticket would still be there as the service still exists. There'd be less convenience to customers, but that goes without saying. Empty services (double deckers, at that) has to be ringing alarm bells to suggest to management that they need to review how things...

(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin wrote But there's nothing stopping the Sunday and bank holiday workings remaining in Stockton I guess?

I don't think it'd be appropriate for Sundays to go without a "MAX" specification bus. Changing the running boards around and making timetable alterations shouldn't be too difficult, though...

(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin wrote If these extra journeys do not resolve a problem that is known about though, what next? Keep single decker operation in tact because it means moving the service from Stockton otherwise? Stunting growth rarely works.

Agreed. There's only so many times you can play around with a timetable, adding extra journeys here and there at peaks, before you realise that there was only ever one appropriate option.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm)VolvoMarkII wrote Out of the 9 boards now, only 4 are specifically allocated double decks on paper, which suggests that Durham have two single decker workings.

Logically thinking, I would assume that this is purposeful, by double decks being on the journeys that are more heavily used.

I suspect that if push came to shove, Arriva would either change the remaining two Durham based single deckers to doubles and rework the boards and/or pay for work at Stockton depot to allow double deckers in (which would presukably be a cheaper one off cost, instead of an ongoing recurring cost of having everything based at Durham and subsequent dead running).

In reality, how often does this happen? I certainly haven't seen a single decker from Durham allocated for quite some time... When Geminis are unavailable, other double deckers tend to substitute.

Is this another case of those on depot level taking matters into their own hands and ignoring management's decision-making?

(31 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm)Dan wrote Without wishing to turn this into the "Service Suggestions" thread...

If this were to happen, and the X2 was dropped to an hourly frequency, why couldn't the costs saved here be pumped into the evening runs to provide later journeys from Middlesbrough to Durham, to get the buses back home?

I can only imagine the frequency of the X2 at present links to the heavy competition on the Durham Road corridor provided by Go North East, but I'd suggest that anyone travelling who doesn't have onward Arriva connections in Durham (either to the X1 or to other Arriva services) will want to get on the 21 or X21 instead - especially as the latter is getting an increased frequency at peaks...

In my experience with the X2 it can be busy at times, there has been times there has been few seats left on Pulsar operated journeys and part the reason why it looks so empty at times is because the X1 needs double deckers but the X2 doesn't get double decker loads the X2 that leaves Framwellgate Moor at around 1535 does get a decent amount of New College students because the 64 passes the New College students because its full of Fram school kids.

Also why does Arriva think that New College students finish between 4pm and 5:30pm when many students tend to finish between 3pm and 4pm after about 1620 the only students waiting for a bus are those waiting for the 1638 service 7 and at 1530 students are left behind because the 64 is full of Fram school kids.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:23 pm)Kuyoyo wrote They could - if you want them stuck there for days and days. We all know Redcar's record in that area.

Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best Would Arriva make the modifications to Stockton depot if any of their routes were in desperate need of double deck operation?

(31 Aug 2014, 8:26 pm)Jimmi wrote In my experience with the X2 it can be busy at times, there has been times there has been few seats left on Pulsar operated journeys and part the reason why it looks so empty at times is because the X1 needs double deckers but the X2 doesn't get double decker loads the X2 that leaves Framwellgate Moor at around 1535 does get a decent amount of New College students because the 64 passes the New College students because its full of Fram school kids.

Also why does Arriva think that New College students finish between 4pm and 5:30pm when many students tend to finish between 3pm and 4pm after about 1620 the only students waiting for a bus are those waiting for the 1638 service 7 and at 1530 students are left behind because the 64 is full of Fram school kids.

'At times' being the key words here. Most services get busy during school/college kicking out times.

If they managed to get a double decker to Framwellgate Moor for 15:30 (ie the run that does get full), I doubt there'd be a great deal of issues.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote I don't think it'd be appropriate for Sundays to go without a "MAX" specification bus. Changing the running boards around and making timetable alterations shouldn't be too difficult, though...

They've already changed the timetable once to allow more running time from today. You can't do Middlesbrough-Durham-Middlesbrough in 2 hours which is what they previously tried to do. They now get 2 hours 15 minutes (5 of which is layover time in Durham) and work off 28Bs and work onto 17s (however that is just the general pattern, it is dictated by drivers hours etc). Unless you split the X1 onto it's own board and operated the X1s as the 5s do on Sunday (driver does 1 trip then has his break then does another trip) with the same buses out all day (just changing drivers at the end of the driver's X1 duty).

(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote Agreed. There's only so many times you can play around with a timetable, adding extra journeys here and there at peaks, before you realise that there was only ever one appropriate option.

Extra journeys which run off other services (in the case of these extra journeys, Stockton's 6 journeys). The PM Peak X1 working from Framwellgate Moor runs between 2 Durham workings, meaning if Durham's management have sense, you'd have deckers on both working.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan wrote In reality, how often does this happen? I certainly haven't seen a single decker from Durham allocated for quite some time... When Geminis are unavailable, other double deckers tend to substitute.

Is this another case of those on depot level taking matters into their own hands and ignoring management's decision-making?

Quite often actually - normally 1 Durham board with a Pulsar and the sixth board has either another Pulsar or one of the ALX DAFs.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm)mb134 wrote Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best Would Arriva make the modifications to Stockton depot if any of their routes were in desperate need of double deck operation?

I have no idea - I think it depends how much it costs, plus the timeframe until the area where the depot presently is could be up for redevelopment. I doubt they'd folk out thousands of pounds if the depot might only have 2 or 3 years left before it needs replacing.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:29 pm)Dan wrote 'At times' being the key words here. Most services get busy during school/college kicking out times.

If they managed to get a double decker to Framwellgate Moor for 15:30 (ie the run that does get full), I doubt there'd be a great deal of issues.

Its also busy mid afternoon.

The last time I saw that 64 it was a double decker but in the past they were terrible for allocations around that time, at one point at 1530 everyday 1795/1796 always used to turn up together which resulted in two full buses and two buses driving past New College students thankfully for me this was when the 7/7A still served Framwellgate Moor but for people who needed the 63/64 it was a nightmare getting home, someone I know used to have to leave at 1510 or wait to nearly 1550 to get home.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:36 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Quite often actually - normally 1 Durham board with a Pulsar and the sixth board has either another Pulsar or one of the ALX DAFs.

At the start of this month, one of Durham's boards was allocated a Pulsar, for about a week. For the majority of the journeys I saw for the remainder of this month, it's either been a Gemini or an ALX400...

Given the appearances of single deckers at the start of the month, I'm guessing this one is/was a single decker board. My sightings of double deckers for the past three weeks or so can't be down to luck, surely?

(31 Aug 2014, 8:44 pm)Dan wrote At the start of this month, one of Durham's boards was allocated a Pulsar, for about a week. For the majority of the journeys I saw for the remainder of this month, it's either been a Gemini or an ALX400...

Given the appearances of single deckers at the start of the month, I'm guessing this one was a single decker board. My sightings of double deckers for the past three weeks or so can't be down to luck, surely?

Unless you haven't see the officially allocated Pulsar boards?

(31 Aug 2014, 8:46 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Unless you haven't see the officially allocated Pulsar boards?

There's certainly been Pulsars out most days, I've seen at least one! Of course it doesn't help that they have double deckers off the road, 7478 is awaiting a new engine I believe. DAF engines take forever to procure for some reason.

(31 Aug 2014, 8:46 pm)Kuyoyo wrote Unless you haven't see the officially allocated Pulsar boards?

Elaborate on the boards which are allocated Pulsars on paper, and I'll be able to tell you whether it was an odd working at the start of the month or the remaining three...!

(31 Aug 2014, 8:21 pm)mb134 wrote Could they not take them to another depot, e.g Redcar, when they require maintenance?

What if they are non-runners?

It's possible to drag them back to a local depot, but onward to a different depot would require a transporter.

(31 Aug 2014, 9:08 pm)G-CPTN wrote What if they are non-runners?

It's possible to drag them back to a local depot, but onward to a different depot would require a transporter.

Say if they broke down while in service, they could ask the recovery truck to take it to Redcar depot not Stockton surely?

(31 Aug 2014, 9:02 pm)Dan wrote Elaborate on the boards which are allocated Pulsars on paper, and I'll be able to tell you whether it was an odd working at the start of the month or the remaining three...!

I'm not at liberate to say the present ones, but for people out tomorrow, these are the Durham workings that on paper are Pulsar-workings:

Vehicle 1
0705 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
0825 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham
0946 X2 Durham to Newcastle
1050 X2 Newcastle to Durham
1150 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
1305 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham
1421 X2 Durham to Newcastle
1520 X2 Newcastle to Durham
1630 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
1750 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham

Vehicle 2
0735 X2 Birtley Windsor Road to Durham
0815 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
0935 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham
1051 X2 Durham to Newcastle
1150 X2 Newcastle to Durham
1250 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
1405 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham
1521 X2 Durham to Newcastle
1625 X2 Newcastle to Durham
1730 X1 Durham to Middlesbrough
1850 X1 Middlesbrough to Durham

(31 Aug 2014, 9:11 pm)Kuyoyo wrote I'm not at liberate to say the present ones, but for people out tomorrow, these are the Durham workings that on paper are Pulsar-workings:

I'm not sure how the allocation works now as we haven't seen the new RTCs yet, but before today Durham's allocation was:

X1A - Gemini Double Deck
X1B - Stockton Pulsar
X1C - Stockton Pulsar
X1D - Stockton Pulsar
X1E - Gemini Double Deck
X1F - Gemini Double Deck
X1G - Pulsar
X1H - Gemini Double Deck
X1I - Pulsar

Strangely, the 2 Pulsar workings at Durham both run off 1907 and 1933 respectively, leaving the Geminis out until 1-4am in some cases.

(31 Aug 2014, 9:22 pm)palatine3833 wrote I'm not sure how the allocation works now as we haven't seen the new RTCs yet, but before today Durham's allocation was:

X1A - Gemini Double Deck
X1B - Stockton Pulsar
X1C - Stockton Pulsar
X1D - Stockton Pulsar
X1E - Gemini Double Deck
X1F - Gemini Double Deck
X1G - Pulsar
X1H - Gemini Double Deck
X1I - Pulsar

Strangely, the 2 Pulsar workings at Durham both run off 1907 and 1933 respectively, leaving the Geminis out until 1-4am in some cases.

According to the RTC document, as of tomorrow, it is:

X1A - Stockton Pulsar
X1B - Stockton Pulsar
X1C - Stockton Pulsar
X1D - Gemini Double Deck
X1E - Gemini Double Deck
X1F - Pulsar
X1G - Gemini Double Deck
X1H - Pulsar
X1I - Gemini Double Deck

(31 Aug 2014, 7:56 pm)mb134 wrote Yeah I guess, as a customer, I would prefer consistent allocation however, in the case of the X15, recently they've never really had a consistent allocation, with coaches, E400's and B7's being allocated during the last few month.
Also if Arriva always allocate single deckers to those boards that carry less passengers, the customers that use the same bus every day will get used to this vehicle and to them at least it will be consistant (but bearing in mind this is Arriva in Northumberland with the X15, this has 1% chance of actually happening)

your right but the only time ive had a problem with the x15 and it is understandable is with bad weather e.g snow

Do you folks think that any double deck orders will be on the cards for next year?

(31 Aug 2014, 10:22 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Do you folks think that any double deck orders will be on the cards for next year?

Given that we have had a fair number of double deck deliveries this year, then yes I reckon we may well see a few next year. However we are running out of places to put double deckers so it may well be a case of converting further single deck services. I would also expect some more cascades from London, potentially replacing the Lowlanders that will be at Durham depot (7436-7444) as a start...