(31 Aug 2014, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Without adding to the running cost - no. At least 2 of the Stockton workings start and finish down in the Teesside area. Then there's the cost of re-working the Sunday journeys which are geared to operation out of Stockton (and interwork with all of Stockton's Middlesbrough Sunday runs apart from the 5s of course).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Without adding to the running cost - no. At least 2 of the Stockton workings start and finish down in the Teesside area. Then there's the cost of re-working the Sunday journeys which are geared to operation out of Stockton (and interwork with all of Stockton's Middlesbrough Sunday runs apart from the 5s of course).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Without adding to the running cost - no. At least 2 of the Stockton workings start and finish down in the Teesside area. Then there's the cost of re-working the Sunday journeys which are geared to operation out of Stockton (and interwork with all of Stockton's Middlesbrough Sunday runs apart from the 5s of course).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:59 pm)VolvoMarkII I think you have hit the nail on the head here.
I bet that adding 4 dead journeys per day into the cost would be a significant chunk of profit cleared off for the sake of what? Running it all from Durham is logistically not an option I would guess.
(31 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm)Dan Without wishing to turn this into the "Service Suggestions" thread...
If this were to happen, and the X2 was dropped to an hourly frequency, why couldn't the costs saved here be pumped into the evening runs to provide later journeys from Middlesbrough to Durham, to get the buses back home?
I can only imagine the frequency of the X2 at present links to the heavy competition on the Durham Road corridor provided by Go North East, but I'd suggest that anyone travelling who doesn't have onward Arriva connections in Durham (either to the X1 or to other Arriva services) will want to get on the 21 or X21 instead - especially as the latter is getting an increased frequency at peaks...
(31 Aug 2014, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Without adding to the running cost - no. At least 2 of the Stockton workings start and finish down in the Teesside area. Then there's the cost of re-working the Sunday journeys which are geared to operation out of Stockton (and interwork with all of Stockton's Middlesbrough Sunday runs apart from the 5s of course).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:59 pm)VolvoMarkII I think you have hit the nail on the head here.
I bet that adding 4 dead journeys per day into the cost would be a significant chunk of profit cleared off for the sake of what? Running it all from Durham is logistically not an option I would guess.
(31 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm)Dan Without wishing to turn this into the "Service Suggestions" thread...
If this were to happen, and the X2 was dropped to an hourly frequency, why couldn't the costs saved here be pumped into the evening runs to provide later journeys from Middlesbrough to Durham, to get the buses back home?
I can only imagine the frequency of the X2 at present links to the heavy competition on the Durham Road corridor provided by Go North East, but I'd suggest that anyone travelling who doesn't have onward Arriva connections in Durham (either to the X1 or to other Arriva services) will want to get on the 21 or X21 instead - especially as the latter is getting an increased frequency at peaks...
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin But there's nothing stopping the Sunday and bank holiday workings remaining in Stockton I guess?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin But there's nothing stopping the Sunday and bank holiday workings remaining in Stockton I guess?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:06 pm)Kuyoyo If that's the case - why not leave things as they are rather than increasing the running costs just so you can have a full Decker allocation? And that's before you consider where the extra Geminis would come from - it's already likely a sixth one will be required but it's a question of how to get another one across from Blyth when the majority of Blyth's are MAX'd already.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:06 pm)Kuyoyo If that's the case - why not leave things as they are rather than increasing the running costs just so you can have a full Decker allocation? And that's before you consider where the extra Geminis would come from - it's already likely a sixth one will be required but it's a question of how to get another one across from Blyth when the majority of Blyth's are MAX'd already.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin If these extra journeys do not resolve a problem that is known about though, what next? Keep single decker operation in tact because it means moving the service from Stockton otherwise? Stunting growth rarely works.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin If these extra journeys do not resolve a problem that is known about though, what next? Keep single decker operation in tact because it means moving the service from Stockton otherwise? Stunting growth rarely works.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm)VolvoMarkII I suspect that if push came to shove, Arriva would either change the remaining two Durham based single deckers to doubles and rework the boards and/or pay for work at Stockton depot to allow double deckers in (which would presukably be a cheaper one off cost, instead of an ongoing recurring cost of having everything based at Durham and subsequent dead running).Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm)VolvoMarkII I suspect that if push came to shove, Arriva would either change the remaining two Durham based single deckers to doubles and rework the boards and/or pay for work at Stockton depot to allow double deckers in (which would presukably be a cheaper one off cost, instead of an ongoing recurring cost of having everything based at Durham and subsequent dead running).Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:17 pm)mb134 Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:17 pm)mb134 Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:17 pm)mb134 Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:17 pm)mb134 Why can't Stockton currently accommodate double deckers? How hard would it be to make the changes?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:19 pm)mb134 Ah rightis there nowhere outside they could park them?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:19 pm)mb134 Ah right
(31 Aug 2014, 8:20 pm)Kuyoyo The depot can take deckers in the fuel line and wash - it's when it comes to maintenance they can't. Stockton doesn't have pits, all work underneath is done on lifts and that's when the roof beams come into play - they are too low to accommodate a decker.Could they not take them to another depot, e.g Redcar, when they require maintenance?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:20 pm)Kuyoyo The depot can take deckers in the fuel line and wash - it's when it comes to maintenance they can't. Stockton doesn't have pits, all work underneath is done on lifts and that's when the roof beams come into play - they are too low to accommodate a decker.Could they not take them to another depot, e.g Redcar, when they require maintenance?
(31 Aug 2014, 7:59 pm)VolvoMarkII I don't see Arriva reducing the X2 at any point in the future either. If it was going to happen, it would have already happened by now. I think that whilst it may not carry as many as the 21 or X21, it still provides a link between the Durham & Northumbria regions, that would otherwise be severed. I think on that basis, even if it made nothing, Arriva would keep it, to ensure value for money in their full north east tickets. Withdrawing it would reduce their value for money by 50% overnight.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin But there's nothing stopping the Sunday and bank holiday workings remaining in Stockton I guess?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin If these extra journeys do not resolve a problem that is known about though, what next? Keep single decker operation in tact because it means moving the service from Stockton otherwise? Stunting growth rarely works.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm)VolvoMarkII Out of the 9 boards now, only 4 are specifically allocated double decks on paper, which suggests that Durham have two single decker workings.
Logically thinking, I would assume that this is purposeful, by double decks being on the journeys that are more heavily used.
I suspect that if push came to shove, Arriva would either change the remaining two Durham based single deckers to doubles and rework the boards and/or pay for work at Stockton depot to allow double deckers in (which would presukably be a cheaper one off cost, instead of an ongoing recurring cost of having everything based at Durham and subsequent dead running).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:59 pm)VolvoMarkII I don't see Arriva reducing the X2 at any point in the future either. If it was going to happen, it would have already happened by now. I think that whilst it may not carry as many as the 21 or X21, it still provides a link between the Durham & Northumbria regions, that would otherwise be severed. I think on that basis, even if it made nothing, Arriva would keep it, to ensure value for money in their full north east tickets. Withdrawing it would reduce their value for money by 50% overnight.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin But there's nothing stopping the Sunday and bank holiday workings remaining in Stockton I guess?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:03 pm)aureolin If these extra journeys do not resolve a problem that is known about though, what next? Keep single decker operation in tact because it means moving the service from Stockton otherwise? Stunting growth rarely works.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:14 pm)VolvoMarkII Out of the 9 boards now, only 4 are specifically allocated double decks on paper, which suggests that Durham have two single decker workings.
Logically thinking, I would assume that this is purposeful, by double decks being on the journeys that are more heavily used.
I suspect that if push came to shove, Arriva would either change the remaining two Durham based single deckers to doubles and rework the boards and/or pay for work at Stockton depot to allow double deckers in (which would presukably be a cheaper one off cost, instead of an ongoing recurring cost of having everything based at Durham and subsequent dead running).
(31 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm)Dan Without wishing to turn this into the "Service Suggestions" thread...
If this were to happen, and the X2 was dropped to an hourly frequency, why couldn't the costs saved here be pumped into the evening runs to provide later journeys from Middlesbrough to Durham, to get the buses back home?
I can only imagine the frequency of the X2 at present links to the heavy competition on the Durham Road corridor provided by Go North East, but I'd suggest that anyone travelling who doesn't have onward Arriva connections in Durham (either to the X1 or to other Arriva services) will want to get on the 21 or X21 instead - especially as the latter is getting an increased frequency at peaks...
(31 Aug 2014, 7:58 pm)Dan Without wishing to turn this into the "Service Suggestions" thread...
If this were to happen, and the X2 was dropped to an hourly frequency, why couldn't the costs saved here be pumped into the evening runs to provide later journeys from Middlesbrough to Durham, to get the buses back home?
I can only imagine the frequency of the X2 at present links to the heavy competition on the Durham Road corridor provided by Go North East, but I'd suggest that anyone travelling who doesn't have onward Arriva connections in Durham (either to the X1 or to other Arriva services) will want to get on the 21 or X21 instead - especially as the latter is getting an increased frequency at peaks...
(31 Aug 2014, 8:23 pm)Kuyoyo They could - if you want them stuck there for days and days. We all know Redcar's record in that area.Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best
Would Arriva make the modifications to Stockton depot if any of their routes were in desperate need of double deck operation?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:23 pm)Kuyoyo They could - if you want them stuck there for days and days. We all know Redcar's record in that area.Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best
Would Arriva make the modifications to Stockton depot if any of their routes were in desperate need of double deck operation?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:26 pm)Jimmi In my experience with the X2 it can be busy at times, there has been times there has been few seats left on Pulsar operated journeys and part the reason why it looks so empty at times is because the X1 needs double deckers but the X2 doesn't get double decker loads the X2 that leaves Framwellgate Moor at around 1535 does get a decent amount of New College students because the 64 passes the New College students because its full of Fram school kids.
Also why does Arriva think that New College students finish between 4pm and 5:30pm when many students tend to finish between 3pm and 4pm after about 1620 the only students waiting for a bus are those waiting for the 1638 service 7 and at 1530 students are left behind because the 64 is full of Fram school kids.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:26 pm)Jimmi In my experience with the X2 it can be busy at times, there has been times there has been few seats left on Pulsar operated journeys and part the reason why it looks so empty at times is because the X1 needs double deckers but the X2 doesn't get double decker loads the X2 that leaves Framwellgate Moor at around 1535 does get a decent amount of New College students because the 64 passes the New College students because its full of Fram school kids.
Also why does Arriva think that New College students finish between 4pm and 5:30pm when many students tend to finish between 3pm and 4pm after about 1620 the only students waiting for a bus are those waiting for the 1638 service 7 and at 1530 students are left behind because the 64 is full of Fram school kids.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan I don't think it'd be appropriate for Sundays to go without a "MAX" specification bus. Changing the running boards around and making timetable alterations shouldn't be too difficult, though...
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan Agreed. There's only so many times you can play around with a timetable, adding extra journeys here and there at peaks, before you realise that there was only ever one appropriate option.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan In reality, how often does this happen? I certainly haven't seen a single decker from Durham allocated for quite some time... When Geminis are unavailable, other double deckers tend to substitute.
Is this another case of those on depot level taking matters into their own hands and ignoring management's decision-making?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm)mb134 Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan I don't think it'd be appropriate for Sundays to go without a "MAX" specification bus. Changing the running boards around and making timetable alterations shouldn't be too difficult, though...
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan Agreed. There's only so many times you can play around with a timetable, adding extra journeys here and there at peaks, before you realise that there was only ever one appropriate option.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:24 pm)Dan In reality, how often does this happen? I certainly haven't seen a single decker from Durham allocated for quite some time... When Geminis are unavailable, other double deckers tend to substitute.
Is this another case of those on depot level taking matters into their own hands and ignoring management's decision-making?
(31 Aug 2014, 8:27 pm)mb134 Ah yeah, maybe the Redcar suggestion wasn't the best
(31 Aug 2014, 8:29 pm)Dan 'At times' being the key words here. Most services get busy during school/college kicking out times.
If they managed to get a double decker to Framwellgate Moor for 15:30 (ie the run that does get full), I doubt there'd be a great deal of issues.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:29 pm)Dan 'At times' being the key words here. Most services get busy during school/college kicking out times.
If they managed to get a double decker to Framwellgate Moor for 15:30 (ie the run that does get full), I doubt there'd be a great deal of issues.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:36 pm)Kuyoyo Quite often actually - normally 1 Durham board with a Pulsar and the sixth board has either another Pulsar or one of the ALX DAFs.
(31 Aug 2014, 8:36 pm)Kuyoyo Quite often actually - normally 1 Durham board with a Pulsar and the sixth board has either another Pulsar or one of the ALX DAFs.
