(18 Dec 2015, 1:13 pm)DanPicken wrote It may of been since they couldn't get Streetshites in time, it's only the Cadets which are unreliable.

Not of all them are lol.

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(18 Dec 2015, 1:13 pm)Dan wrote The book value on full size single deckers and double deckers is expected to depreciate over the vehicle's life span of 15 years. Midibuses and minibuses are only expected to depreciate over a life span of 12 years.

I would of liked to see the Cadets go, but as it seems from your post it will be the B10's... least they are DDA brings more value to them...


Was hoping to see Scania's on the 33/33A and 39.....

Or i'm i reading to much in to this like normal................... haha

Just seen 7120 on route familiarisation looks nice

If Streetdecks are coming for X21 let's take the opportunity to revive the OK Express(way) brand on it with that wonderful traditional style livery the Scanias had for the OK1. But please, no windows blocked by branding, as being able to see out is especially important on long routes (and I and everyone I know think its important on all routes).

(18 Dec 2015, 3:35 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote If Streetdecks are coming for X21 let's take the opportunity to revive the OK Express(way) brand on it with that wonderful traditional style livery the Scanias had for the OK1. But please, no windows blocked by branding, as being able to see out is especially important on long routes (and I and everyone I know think its important on all routes).

I completely understand why some people wish to see something OK Travel-related return for the Newcastle-Bishop Auckland service, given the heritage of the route; but I don't think Go North East will do that if these Streetdecks are destined for the X21. As with previous orders, I imagine plug sockets, free WiFi, e-leather seating and an attractive new brand would be applied to these new vehicles before they enter service. Aside from those who can remember OK Travel (anybody post-1990 or so will no doubt struggle, so that more or less wipes out people aged below 25), what does applying a brand of that sort to new buses do for young customers? They are the focus of the company's marketing targets in many respects, and will be left somewhat confused by it. Those who can remember OK, won't be here forever, and Go North East have to look towards the future. Yet some enthusiasts will throw their toys out of the pram should a new vehicle emerge with anything but an ''OK'' livery...

And to compliment the above, the X21 has been branded Pronto since the service was introduced in its current guise. I think it would be wrong to change it given that customers are more familiar with the Pronto brand.

(18 Dec 2015, 4:27 pm)S813 FVK wrote And to compliment the above, the X21 has been branded Pronto since the service was introduced in its current guise. I think it would be wrong to change it given that customers are more familiar with the Pronto brand.

It has, if they are sticking to Pronto then i hope its designed better as the current one is quite rubbish in my opinion.

6020 was looking forlorn this morning at Chester Moor. Had a fitter attending to it.
I think it was 6020 that I saw parked up on Saturday with its hazards on.

re OK vs Pronto and ages. The Northern name was phased out years ago, made a comeback and has now been introduced as a brand.
Post 86, there was no such thing as 'Northern', only variants of it.
A gap of 20+ years prior to it being reintroduced.
The OK name vanished in the mid/late 90's.

If Northern is ok (no pun intended), why not OK? 
 

Difference is (or at least to me!) that OK was an acquisition, whereas Northern is the company's roots. Similar to Stagecoach with Busways and Transit.

(18 Dec 2015, 4:39 pm)Andreos1 wrote 6020 was looking forlorn this morning at Chester Moor. Had a fitter attending to it.
I think it was 6020 that I saw parked up on Saturday with its hazards on.

re OK vs Pronto and ages. The Northern name was phased out years ago, made a comeback and has now been introduced as a brand.
Post 86, there was no such thing as 'Northern', only variants of it.
A gap of 20+ years prior to it being reintroduced.
The OK name vanished in the mid/late 90's.

If Northern is ok (no pun intended), why not OK? 
 

I agree with what Adrian says in a way; but ''Northern'' was far more of a household name in the region than ''OK'' was. In my opinion, the former deserves to hold, albeit a limited, name within the company nowadays, while ''OK'' was just amalgamated into Go Ahead Northern upon acquisition. Another point is that the current usage of ''Northern'' as a brand for the OmniDekkas on the 6, X70 and X71 is that it has been applied to vehicles that are 11/12 years old and will be removed from service within the next five years if their expected shelf live is acknowledged. With the case of reviving ''OK'' for some brand new vehicles, which are at the top of their range, it wouldn't be right in my opinion to apply the livery of something so far into the past onto something brand new. It would be like giving an iPhone 6S to a man still living in the 1950s.

Quite a few young people on this forum lamented the passing of the OK Expressway livery and Northern, Venture and Diamond all refer to historic operators around the area now served by the brands. There's nowt wrong with having some traditionally named brands and liveries along with some modern, trendy ones. The X21 is now an ideal case for the former. And several brands (some good, some not) have been replaced recently eg Highwayman to Green Arrow, (quite liked both), Laser (so so) to See it, do it (naff), Lime (stupid name) to Coast & Country (not bad) etc. Pronto is a pretty silly name and not a brilliant livery. The Bishop - Newcastle route was the main line of OK (for both constituent companies, Emerson and Howe) so there's a relevance there, (which there wasn't with the OK1 route) and it was a brilliant livery. I hope Prince Bishops will be kept as it's a good brand (being pedantic, it would have more relevance to a Durham (Cathedral) to Bishop Auckland (home of the Bishop) route, but the name does cover the whole area as the  "Land of the Prince Bishops" because in mediaeval times the Bishop ruled what is now County Durham and Northumberland in the name of the King (end of history lesson).

Some brands just don't work without vinyls going over the windows with the Prince Bishops being one of them. Contravision is easy to see out of in the day when it is light and, to be honest, it doesn't matter when it is dark as you won't be able to see much anyway.

(18 Dec 2015, 5:58 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote Quite a few young people on this forum lamented the passing of the OK Expressway livery and Northern, Venture and Diamond all refer to historic operators around the area now served by the brands. There's nowt wrong with having some traditionally named brands and liveries along with some modern, trendy ones. The X21 is now an ideal case for the former. And several brands (some good, some not) have been replaced recently eg Highwayman to Green Arrow, (quite liked both), Laser (so so) to See it, do it (naff), Lime (stupid name) to Coast & Country (not bad) etc. Pronto is a pretty silly name and not a brilliant livery. The Bishop - Newcastle route was the main line of OK (for both constituent companies, Emerson and Howe) so there's a relevance there, (which there wasn't with the OK1 route) and it was a brilliant livery. I hope Prince Bishops will be kept as it's a good brand (being pedantic, it would have more relevance to a Durham (Cathedral) to Bishop Auckland (home of the Bishop) route, but the name does cover the whole area as the  "Land of the Prince Bishops" because in mediaeval times the Bishop ruled what is now County Durham and Northumberland in the name of the King (end of history lesson).

That's only the case to enthusiasts though, other people I know who are around the same age as me (I'm 21) who aren't enthusiasts (some of whom live on the X21 route) will not know anything of the fact that OK was a bus company that existed in the past and branding the bus as "OK Expressway" will make no difference to them or any branding name whether it's called "OK Expressway" "Pronto" or anything else, the only thing they will identify with the branding is that the bus is branded for service X21. Also know people living on Durham Diamond and Venture routes and they won't know the significance of these brandings.

(18 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm)S813 FVK wrote Some brands just don't work without vinyls going over the windows with the Prince Bishops being one of them. Contravision is easy to see out of in the day when it is light and, to be honest, it doesn't matter when it is dark as you won't be able to see much anyway.

Contravision is a bit difficult to see out of when it is raining, I once had Arriva's 1493 on the 7 one morning when it had that vinyl advertisement promoting the 1/X1 and I struggled to tell where I was. I think a bit of Contravision is fine so long as it doesn't totally cover the windows.

(18 Dec 2015, 5:21 pm)R852 PRG wrote I agree with what Adrian says in a way; but ''Northern'' was far more of a household name in the region than ''OK'' was. In my opinion, the former deserves to hold, albeit a limited, name within the company nowadays, while ''OK'' was just amalgamated into Go Ahead Northern upon acquisition. Another point is that the current usage of ''Northern'' as a brand for the OmniDekkas on the 6, X70 and X71 is that it has been applied to vehicles that are 11/12 years old and will be removed from service within the next five years if their expected shelf live is acknowledged. With the case of reviving ''OK'' for some brand new vehicles, which are at the top of their range, it wouldn't be right in my opinion to apply the livery of something so far into the past onto something brand new. It would be like giving an iPhone 6S to a man still living in the 1950s.

Diamond and Venture were taken over a long while before OK were, yet we see their names used - including Venture on brand new vehicles.
Heck, that fella still living in the 1950's may struggle to remember Venture!

I have stated many a time that I am not a fan of branding. It doesn't do much for me.
I couldn't give two hoots whether OK is brought back, however if I had a choice between OK or the current brand, OK would win hands down - if only because of the relevance to the route.

Northern may be recognised more in its traditional heartlands, but not sure about some areas like Wearside and North Tyneside, who were used to Sunderland and District or Tynemouth etc plying their trade.

(18 Dec 2015, 7:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote Diamond and Venture were taken over a long while before OK were, yet we see their names used - including Venture on brand new vehicles.
Heck, that fella still living in the 1950's may struggle to remember Venture!

I have stated many a time that I am not a fan of branding. It doesn't do much for me.
I couldn't give two hoots whether OK is brought back, however if there is a choice between OK or the current brand, OK would win hands down - if only because of the relevance to the route.

Northern may be recognised more in its traditional heartlands, but not sure about some areas like Wearside and North Tyneside, who were used to Sunderland and District or Tynemouth etc plying their trade.

Its just like Busway's will never come back, neither will Wear Buses etc. 

I hope they don't bring it back, why should they bring it back just to please enthusiasts?  Its in the past, move on.

(18 Dec 2015, 6:05 pm)S813 FVK wrote Some brands just don't work without vinyls going over the windows with the Prince Bishops being one of them. Contravision is easy to see out of in the day when it is light and, to be honest, it doesn't matter when it is dark as you won't be able to see much anyway.

Ye, the Prince Bishops brand will be rubbish if the crown part didn't go up to top of the window.

I see his point about nearly all the windows getting covered but when its just 2 (1 on each side) then it shouldn't be a problem, just don't sit where its covered..........

(18 Dec 2015, 7:22 pm)Michael wrote Its just like Busway's will never come back, neither will Wear Buses etc. 

I hope they don't bring it back, why should they bring it back just to please enthusiasts?  Its in the past, move on.

I am not sure it is about pleasing enthusiasts.
Were the OK, Venture and Diamond brands brought back to appease enthusiasts or because of a marketing executive who thought it would be a good idea?

(18 Dec 2015, 7:39 pm)Andreos1 wrote I am not sure it is about pleasing enthusiasts.
Were the OK, Venture and Diamond brands brought back to appease enthusiasts or because of a marketing executive who thought it would be a good idea?

Not sure, they might of been, but why keep going back to the roots, when they can have new brands?

(18 Dec 2015, 7:42 pm)Michael wrote Not sure, they might of been, but why keep going back to the roots, when they can have new brands?

Naming a brand, to suit a small proportion of its customer base (enthusiasts), isn't going to make much business sense.

Nicked this from wiki, but basic marketing rules, like the following:
A key ingredient in launching a successful company is the selection of its name. Product names that are considered generally sound have several qualities in common.
They strategically distinguish the product from its competitors by conveying its unique positioning
They hold appeal for the product’s target audience
They imply or evoke a salient brand attribute, quality or benefit.
They are available for legal protection and "trademark".
They allow companies to bond with their customers to create loyalty.
They have a symbolic association that fortifies the image of a company or a product to the consumers.
They help motivate customers to buy the product.
They can be legally acquired and developed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_naming

In the case of Venture, Diamond and OK - then they tick a number of those boxes.
Would a brand new brand tick as many?

(18 Dec 2015, 7:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote Naming a brand, to suit a small proportion of its customer base (enthusiasts), isn't going to make much business sense.

Nicked this from wiki, but basic marketing rules, like the following:
A key ingredient in launching a successful company is the selection of its name. Product names that are considered generally sound have several qualities in common.
They strategically distinguish the product from its competitors by conveying its unique positioning
They hold appeal for the product’s target audience
They imply or evoke a salient brand attribute, quality or benefit.
They are available for legal protection and "trademark".
They allow companies to bond with their customers to create loyalty.
They have a symbolic association that fortifies the image of a company or a product to the consumers.
They help motivate customers to buy the product.
They can be legally acquired and developed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_naming

In the case of Venture, Diamond and OK - then they tick a number of those boxes.
Would a brand new brand tick as many?

Interestingly they let the 'Go OK Travel' name drop back in 2008: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002159964

It's also worth noting that the red/white/blue 'Go' livery has also dropped, so it'll allow buses to be preserved into that livery, without threat of legal action: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002158426

(18 Dec 2015, 7:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote Naming a brand, to suit a small proportion of its customer base (enthusiasts), isn't going to make much business sense.

Nicked this from wiki, but basic marketing rules, like the following:
A key ingredient in launching a successful company is the selection of its name. Product names that are considered generally sound have several qualities in common.
They strategically distinguish the product from its competitors by conveying its unique positioning
They hold appeal for the product’s target audience
They imply or evoke a salient brand attribute, quality or benefit.
They are available for legal protection and "trademark".
They allow companies to bond with their customers to create loyalty.
They have a symbolic association that fortifies the image of a company or a product to the consumers.
They help motivate customers to buy the product.
They can be legally acquired and developed

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_naming

In the case of Venture, Diamond and OK - then they tick a number of those boxes.
Would a brand new brand tick as many?

The FAB 56, Red Arrows, Angel just name a few?

All of them do well without them being a previous company in the NE?

I know what you're saying, don't get me wrong but i'm trying to get my point across but i can't explain it, if you know what i mean.

There's a limit to the number of different brand names and some are scraping the bottom of the barrel, so why not have a mix of old and new. Northern is being removed from the spare red vehicles, but is now a new brand covering part of the original Northern General area. And we've got that, Diamond and Venture, both in their original areas, so why not OK (on more than the two vehicles for the 18)? There's not many other parts of the old company that you could use - Tynemouth, Tyneside, Gateshead - not particularly inspiring - and what about .... Sunderland District Omnibus Co, about as catchy as See it Do it Sunderland, I suppose. Or even Jarrow & District Electric Traction Co. You could possibly call a brand Invincible (Hall Bros. of Seaham, taken over 1925), but out of the other 40 or so companies taken over by NGT between 1913 and 1995 there's few which would have any relevance as a brand, most just being the owners name. However OK does stand out and even people who don't remember bus travel before 1995 when it was taken over - and the name was kept on for a bit, (GOOK didn't quite work!) - would be bound take notice of the name, which is the aim of a brand, to stand out, make people aware. But it would also have historical relevance to anyone over 25 who remembers it and many in the Bishop Auckland area have fond memories of it. A good local launch with a name people recognise would be bound to increase usage

If they brand the X21 OK Express I'll even forgive GNE for getting Streetdecks for it instead of the fantastic Enviro 400s ..... as long as the windows aren't covered by branding of course!

(18 Dec 2015, 7:55 pm)Adrian wrote Interestingly they let the 'Go OK Travel' name drop back in 2008: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002159964

It's also worth noting that the red/white/blue 'Go' livery has also dropped, so it'll allow buses to be preserved into that livery, without threat of legal action: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/1/UK00002158426

Interesting.
Always wondered what the arrangement was, with regard to using a copyrighted design on a preserved vehicle.

(18 Dec 2015, 7:56 pm)Michael wrote The FAB 56, Red Arrows, Angel just name a few?

All of them do well without them being a previous company in the NE?

I know what you're saying, don't get me wrong but i'm trying to get my point across but i can't explain it, if you know what i mean.

Whey, apart from being inspired to use brand names introduced by another operator...

(18 Dec 2015, 9:12 pm)Andreos1 wrote Interesting.
Always wondered what the arrangement was, with regard to using a copyrighted design on a preserved vehicle.


Whey, apart from being inspired to use brand names introduced by another operator...

That's true... but you can take the Fab 56 and Angel as GNE's own ideas.....

"Jarrow & District Electric Traction Co."

When I am a rock star, this is what I want my band to be called.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bazza90/23...ed-public/ - 7120 seen in Newcastle on Driver Familiarisation

(18 Dec 2015, 7:27 pm)Michael wrote Ye, the Prince Bishops brand will be rubbish if the crown part didn't go up to top of the window.

I see his point about nearly all the windows getting covered but when its just 2 (1 on each side) then it shouldn't be a problem, just don't sit where its covered..........

Is it not the Bishops mitre?

(19 Dec 2015, 12:43 am)JP6004 wrote Is it not the Bishops mitre?

Not sure, not that good on history haha.

(19 Dec 2015, 12:43 am)JP6004 wrote Is it not the Bishops mitre?

Thats the one. I knew it had a fancy name but couldnt think of it haha.

6051's wifi isn't working.