The difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the body and seating) is the gearing.
It is perfectly possible to build a 'bus' with coach gearing (double overdrive ratio gearbox or lower numerical axle ratio) using standard transmission options - ie no special parts other than spares if you need to rebuild the transmission.
The disadvantage would be running in lower gears in urban areas, but the advantage would be less stress on the engine on 'fast' parts of the route (and, probably lower fuel consumption).
Of course, the compromise would be when you need to transfer vehicles onto other routes which are either hilly or congested.
(30 Nov 2016, 4:14 pm)Michael Newgate Street in Newcastle is closed between Clayton Street and Grainger Street due to an incident on a nearby demolition site.
(30 Nov 2016, 4:14 pm)Michael Newgate Street in Newcastle is closed between Clayton Street and Grainger Street due to an incident on a nearby demolition site.
(30 Nov 2016, 12:30 pm)RBZ 5459 I noticed the Twitter rage this morning, made interesting viewing as I sipped my 9 o'clock brew at work this morning.
(30 Nov 2016, 12:30 pm)RBZ 5459 I noticed the Twitter rage this morning, made interesting viewing as I sipped my 9 o'clock brew at work this morning.
(30 Nov 2016, 4:17 pm)G-CPTN The difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the body and seating) is the gearing.
It is perfectly possible to build a 'bus' with coach gearing (double overdrive ratio gearbox or lower numerical axle ratio) using standard transmission options - ie no special parts other than spares if you need to rebuild the transmission.
The disadvantage would be running in lower gears in urban areas, but the advantage would be less stress on the engine on 'fast' parts of the route (and, probably lower fuel consumption).
Of course, the compromise would be when you need to transfer vehicles onto other routes which are either hilly or congested.
(30 Nov 2016, 4:17 pm)G-CPTN The difference between a coach and a bus (apart from the body and seating) is the gearing.
It is perfectly possible to build a 'bus' with coach gearing (double overdrive ratio gearbox or lower numerical axle ratio) using standard transmission options - ie no special parts other than spares if you need to rebuild the transmission.
The disadvantage would be running in lower gears in urban areas, but the advantage would be less stress on the engine on 'fast' parts of the route (and, probably lower fuel consumption).
Of course, the compromise would be when you need to transfer vehicles onto other routes which are either hilly or congested.
(30 Nov 2016, 6:04 pm)South Tyne Lad That's why id recommend buying a high performance bus as opposed to a coach for the TTX, The 280hp model of the Scania N250UD is the highest powered 2 axle Double Decker on the market, So would be as near performance to a coach as you can get, It will be more robust, And will be more suited to the demands due to the higher Power configuration and a higher Torque gearbox as opposed to the 250hp option which comes with the lesser 6HP-1200 Ecolife, So will not be as capable.
Another thing people haven't noticed is that the Scania chassis comes with a higher powered 6.7L Cummins ISBe option, It produces only 10hp less than the highest rated Scania ( Which is 280hp ) and produces near the same torque as the Scania, Despite being 2 litres less than the Scania.
Id heavily suggest getting the Scania Chassis E400MMC on trial before making decisions on what to buy.
(30 Nov 2016, 6:04 pm)South Tyne Lad That's why id recommend buying a high performance bus as opposed to a coach for the TTX, The 280hp model of the Scania N250UD is the highest powered 2 axle Double Decker on the market, So would be as near performance to a coach as you can get, It will be more robust, And will be more suited to the demands due to the higher Power configuration and a higher Torque gearbox as opposed to the 250hp option which comes with the lesser 6HP-1200 Ecolife, So will not be as capable.
Another thing people haven't noticed is that the Scania chassis comes with a higher powered 6.7L Cummins ISBe option, It produces only 10hp less than the highest rated Scania ( Which is 280hp ) and produces near the same torque as the Scania, Despite being 2 litres less than the Scania.
Id heavily suggest getting the Scania Chassis E400MMC on trial before making decisions on what to buy.
(30 Nov 2016, 7:38 pm)mb134 It still won't be as suited to running up and down the A19 every day as a coach, as coaches are literally built for that purpose.
Of course there are obvious drawbacks to operating coaches on the TTX especially if you factor in cost, but coaches would also last far longer on the route than your Scania powered E400. Bear in mind here that the route has killed a fleet of B9TLs in 4 and a bit years.
I'm pretty sure the coach v bus debate has been had many times before, especially when on the subject of the TTX, however now there are increasingly fewer buses that are capable of running such a route, whereas there are several options in terms of suitable coaches.
(30 Nov 2016, 7:38 pm)mb134 It still won't be as suited to running up and down the A19 every day as a coach, as coaches are literally built for that purpose.
Of course there are obvious drawbacks to operating coaches on the TTX especially if you factor in cost, but coaches would also last far longer on the route than your Scania powered E400. Bear in mind here that the route has killed a fleet of B9TLs in 4 and a bit years.
I'm pretty sure the coach v bus debate has been had many times before, especially when on the subject of the TTX, however now there are increasingly fewer buses that are capable of running such a route, whereas there are several options in terms of suitable coaches.
(30 Nov 2016, 6:30 pm)C785 OCN In relation to the new Hexham bus station,does anyone know if paper timetables are available to pick up. Old bus station was a nightmare,never any there to collect.
(30 Nov 2016, 6:30 pm)C785 OCN In relation to the new Hexham bus station,does anyone know if paper timetables are available to pick up. Old bus station was a nightmare,never any there to collect.
(30 Nov 2016, 8:23 pm)South Tyne Lad No bus will be used to that type of route, The X9/X10 is one of the most unique routes in the country.
Having Coaches reduces the capacity per hour that can be carried, As its illegal for standees in a coach, Which is a major push for the likes of Peak time journeys out of Newcastle or all day Saturdays etc, Unless a Oxford Tube style high frecuency service is provided.
This then draws it back to Double Deckers, While everyone ( including management ) should know the Streetdeck couldn't cope when it was on trial due to it being limited to 50mph, Adding also the fact that its hairdryer wouldn't last long running constantly at high revs with a 4 speed gearbox.
The B9TL's ( if kept in good condition ) are stars, 4 and half years pounding a route like that is getting your moneys worth out of them, They aren't exactly dead yet, They'll work for a good few more years yet as spares for less demanding services.
Like I said above, Having coaches would possibly need a higher frequency service to fit everyone with spare capacity, While less Double Deckers will take the same load with still standees remaining to be taken.
That's why I suggested the Scania E400, As its nearly on par with the B9TL, So you can expect atleast another 4 and a half years out of them too, No point going for the Streetdeck as that'll only last 2 years maximum before turning into Arriva's VDL Gemini's/
Then in 2021 when they need replacing, There'll be Euro 7 Deckers with Corsa engines in them as there considered powerful enough.... ( joking, But I woudnt be surprised if it happens anyways )
(30 Nov 2016, 8:23 pm)South Tyne Lad No bus will be used to that type of route, The X9/X10 is one of the most unique routes in the country.
Having Coaches reduces the capacity per hour that can be carried, As its illegal for standees in a coach, Which is a major push for the likes of Peak time journeys out of Newcastle or all day Saturdays etc, Unless a Oxford Tube style high frecuency service is provided.
This then draws it back to Double Deckers, While everyone ( including management ) should know the Streetdeck couldn't cope when it was on trial due to it being limited to 50mph, Adding also the fact that its hairdryer wouldn't last long running constantly at high revs with a 4 speed gearbox.
The B9TL's ( if kept in good condition ) are stars, 4 and half years pounding a route like that is getting your moneys worth out of them, They aren't exactly dead yet, They'll work for a good few more years yet as spares for less demanding services.
Like I said above, Having coaches would possibly need a higher frequency service to fit everyone with spare capacity, While less Double Deckers will take the same load with still standees remaining to be taken.
That's why I suggested the Scania E400, As its nearly on par with the B9TL, So you can expect atleast another 4 and a half years out of them too, No point going for the Streetdeck as that'll only last 2 years maximum before turning into Arriva's VDL Gemini's/
Then in 2021 when they need replacing, There'll be Euro 7 Deckers with Corsa engines in them as there considered powerful enough.... ( joking, But I woudnt be surprised if it happens anyways )
(30 Nov 2016, 10:52 pm)mb134 I'm really not too sure on what the loads are usually like on the TTX, however:in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion
An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads?
Even a Plaxton Elite i can hold 75 passengers, which I believe is similar to the seating capacity of the current B9TLs that are used on the service.
Also, at every 30 minutes, is it really a massive issue if 2 people aren't able to board? I'm sure they'd prefer to wait half an hour and get a seat on a coach, than stand on a double decker that can barely cope with the route anyway, let alone with a standing load.
(30 Nov 2016, 10:52 pm)mb134 I'm really not too sure on what the loads are usually like on the TTX, however:in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion
An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads?
Even a Plaxton Elite i can hold 75 passengers, which I believe is similar to the seating capacity of the current B9TLs that are used on the service.
Also, at every 30 minutes, is it really a massive issue if 2 people aren't able to board? I'm sure they'd prefer to wait half an hour and get a seat on a coach, than stand on a double decker that can barely cope with the route anyway, let alone with a standing load.
(30 Nov 2016, 11:13 pm)Buses98 in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion
(30 Nov 2016, 11:13 pm)Buses98 in my opinion in choice of buying buses for this route maybe Go North East should go for the MCV Evoseti because the ones that first have in south yprkshire are providing exceptional service and comfort on the long route. but as a lot of people say that is my opinion
Having driven both the TTX and National Express Coaches, I have to say that whilst the coaches would mechanically be able to cope with the TTX without any difficulty, a problem would arise with regard to wheelchairs. I can only speak for the Scania/Caetano Levante Tri Axles 7094 etc. These coaches had a lift mechanism to overcome the floor height, not a ramp, and it took 20 minutes to load a wheelchair onto the coach. Complete seats had to be physically moved to make way for the wheelchair. I cannot comment about the current Volvo Tri Axles, but any coach with the aforementioned layout would be unsuitable for service work. I cannot see a way around this because of the floor height of the coach.
(30 Nov 2016, 10:52 pm)mb134 An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads?
(30 Nov 2016, 10:52 pm)mb134 An Astromega TDX27, which I believe is what is used on the Oxford Tube, has a seating capacity of 91 (Stated as 63 + 26 + 1 + 1 in the brochure). This is a larger seating capacity than the longest E400. While I understand that standees aren't allowed on coaches, are there ever really that many standing loads?
I think the Volvo Olympian was the last suitable bus to cope with the X9 / X10 mainly because it had a proper engine in it.
One decker that hasn't been mentioned is the Optare MetroDecker, and from travelling on it on the X1 when it was on there, it seemed quite happy to sit at 62mph on the Washington Highway.
Weren't the Coaches taken off the X10 after the trial due to negative passenger feedback?
As I and others have said, you probably need to treat the route like the Oxford Tube. Though I'm sure the Oxford Tube makes its investment back (£15 sngle fares!) not sure how profitable the X10 actually is to justify a tube style investment and in real terms it's not a massively long journey.
Maybe the talk should shift to more reliable buses than ideas of coaches etc