Good idea but would GNE want to buy 2nd hand to then convert to 1 door (if on main services)- due to the crisis, would it be worth it? - although only 7 years old, good shout.. how much does it cost to convert to one door and then get them up to GNE standard, including the USB ports etc?
Least then, 3 of them could go on the X5/X15 for X-Lines + 1 spare.


Not sure where the rest would end up though, if they decided to take all 13.


The 3 Solar's in service at Deptford, are those temporarily in service?

Probably around £20k to £25k to convert to single doorway and bring up to GoNE standard - as the Go Ahead Group often have buses available for internal transfer, I'm not sure why they would consider getting them externally.
Overall "on the road" cost likely to be at least the same as the book value of a similarly aged vehicle in the fleet - the advantage with new buses is that you get a 2/3/4/5 year warranty, whereas with 7 year old ex London bus you get a vehicle that has units approaching the end of their useful life (buses used to slow moving traffic in London don't always perform well in the fast paced provinces).

Or you could just not upgrade the X84 and X85 to DD and use the Streetlites or something else which there's loads spare atm and save some money by getting nothing when there's massive uncertainty...?

Apart from the X6, X7 and 61 there's no need for extra Streetlites at Deptford your just withdrawing Mercs for no reason since there's nowhere else for them to go. There's way more Streetlites going spare from the Red Kite, Saltwell Park and one from the X66 than needed there; they need a home somewhere.

X84 / X85 - PVR -5
X21 - PVR -4
(The cut in new buses...)

Also love the suggestion to buy ex London stock to replace ex London stock which are newer, seems a good idea to me...

Or you could just not upgrade the X84 and X85 to DD and use the Streetlites or something else which there's loads spare atm and save some money by getting nothing when there's massive uncertainty...?

Apart from the X6, X7 and 61 there's no need for extra Streetlites at Deptford your just withdrawing Mercs for no reason since there's nowhere else for them to go. There's way more Streetlites going spare from the Red Kite, Saltwell Park and one from the X66 than needed there; they need a home somewhere.

X84 / X85 - PVR -5
X21 - PVR -4
(The cut in new buses...)

Remember the 60 will likely to go back up to every 10 minutes, the streetlites spare from the service atm will be required again on the 60.

What is actually allocated to the 61 on a Monday to Friday? (Haven't been that way for a while)

Also wasn't it said that 5481 - 5487 would be one of the first set of Citaro's withdrawnonce the new buses arrive?

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Probably around £20k to £25k to convert to single doorway and bring up to GoNE standard - as the Go Ahead Group often have buses available for internal transfer, I'm not sure why they would consider getting them externally.
Overall "on the road" cost likely to be at least the same as the book value of a similarly aged vehicle in the fleet - the advantage with new buses is that you get a 2/3/4/5 year warranty, whereas with 7 year old ex London bus you get a vehicle that has units approaching the end of their useful life (buses used to slow moving traffic in London don't always perform well in the fast paced provinces).

Ah right, cheaper than i thought tbh, so really it wouldn't worth it.

Remember the 60 will likely to go back up to every 10 minutes, the streetlites spare from the service atm will be required again on the 60.

What is actually allocated to the 61 on a Monday to Friday? (Haven't been that way for a while)

Also wasn't it said that 5481 - 5487 would be one of the first set of Citaro's withdrawnonce the new buses arrive?

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Ah right, cheaper than i thought tbh, so really it wouldn't worth it.

Yeah I know, but even once you've upgraded the 61 and X6/7 with the extra Streetlites there's still loads of them spare, I wouldn't surprise if some went to Riverside but then after that there should be enough spare for other routes where there's no realistically shouting out.

The Red Arrow B9TL's to Crusader will see off the Citaro's I would imagine though. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole Riverside Citaro fleet is gone by the end of year.

7x - 93/94 (Imagine there's a spare there for them)
17x - X1
10x - 53/54/X66

I believe the 93/94 is ran by Versa's so they could easily be the buses being refurbished and put on the 57 with their sisters on the 56.

There's the Mercedes gone if you choose the Streetlites for the 6 (maybe something better ie some Deckers somewhere).

That still leaves the 12 Streetlites to go somewhere - possibly more if you choose something else for the 6.

Only 7 are needed for the X6, X7 and 61 though and that's before any PVR decreases are accounted for in Sunderland so it could be less. The X84/X85 is the one standing out as the only other route that needs newer buses for the LEZ and has nothing accounted for it.

Just saying.

Good idea but would GNE want to buy 2nd hand to then convert to 1 door (if on main services)- due to the crisis, would it be worth it? - although only 7 years old, good shout.. how much does it cost to convert to one door and then get them up to GNE standard, including the USB ports etc?
Least then, 3 of them could go on the X5/X15 for X-Lines + 1 spare.


Not sure where the rest would end up though, if they decided to take all 13.


The 3 Solar's in service at Deptford, are those temporarily in service?

I would of thought that the x5/x15 stay the same at present, and get the cascades from the X9/x10 when new buses arrive for x9/x10( it was rumoured that the x9/x10 streetdecks would go on the x84/x85 but might be changed now)?


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I would of thought that the x5/x15 stay the same at present, and get the cascades from the X9/x10 when new buses arrive for x9/x10( it was rumoured that the x9/x10 streetdecks would go on the x84/x85 but might be changed now)?


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X9/X10 are Volvo B5s

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Yeah I know, but even once you've upgraded the 61 and X6/7 with the extra Streetlites there's still loads of them spare, I wouldn't surprise if some went to Riverside but then after that there should be enough spare for other routes where there's no realistically shouting out.

The Red Arrow B9TL's to Crusader will see off the Citaro's I would imagine though. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole Riverside Citaro fleet is gone by the end of year.

7x - 93/94 (Imagine there's a spare there for them)
17x - X1
10x - 53/54/X66

I believe the 93/94 is ran by Versa's so they could easily be the buses being refurbished and put on the 57 with their sisters on the 56.

There's the Mercedes gone if you choose the Streetlites for the 6 (maybe something better ie some Deckers somewhere).

That still leaves the 12 Streetlites to go somewhere - possibly more if you choose something else for the 6.

Only 7 are needed for the X6, X7 and 61 though and that's before any PVR decreases are accounted for in Sunderland so it could be less. The X84/X85 is the one standing out as the only other route that needs newer buses for the LEZ and has nothing accounted for it.

Just saying.

I'm fairly sure it's been mentioned by either Dan or MG that the plan is to get rid of the Citaros as soon as feasibly possible due to the high running costs.

As much as I like them (apart from the god awful seats), they don't really make sense on many routes, and if they ever got round to fixing the door on the Streetlites (like they've been saying they're going to do for years) they wouldn't be that bad of a replacement.

Yeah I know, but even once you've upgraded the 61 and X6/7 with the extra Streetlites there's still loads of them spare, I wouldn't surprise if some went to Riverside but then after that there should be enough spare for other routes where there's no realistically shouting out.

The Red Arrow B9TL's to Crusader will see off the Citaro's I would imagine though. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole Riverside Citaro fleet is gone by the end of year.

7x - 93/94 (Imagine there's a spare there for them)
17x - X1
10x - 53/54/X66

I believe the 93/94 is ran by Versa's so they could easily be the buses being refurbished and put on the 57 with their sisters on the 56.

There's the Mercedes gone if you choose the Streetlites for the 6 (maybe something better ie some Deckers somewhere).

That still leaves the 12 Streetlites to go somewhere - possibly more if you choose something else for the 6.

Only 7 are needed for the X6, X7 and 61 though and that's before any PVR decreases are accounted for in Sunderland so it could be less. The X84/X85 is the one standing out as the only other route that needs newer buses for the LEZ and has nothing accounted for it.

Just saying.

I actually forgot that the X6/X7 don't have a proper allocation atm, not sure how busy the X6/X7 actually get, but do they require full sized single deckers? (i know longer buses are allocated for social distancing atm).
As the X6/X7 and 61 PVR combined is 8, giving Deptford 10 more Streetlites would give them an overall of 56 Streetlites with 7 Streetlites as spares.


I doubt the 56 will be dropped from double deckers to single deckers... and i hope to god, Deptford don't get Versa's again....

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I'm fairly sure it's been mentioned by either Dan or MG that the plan is to get rid of the Citaros as soon as feasibly possible due to the high running costs.

As much as I like them (apart from the god awful seats), they don't really make sense on many routes, and if they ever got round to fixing the door on the Streetlites (like they've been saying they're going to do for years) they wouldn't be that bad of a replacement.

I think it was mentioned but that was before the crisis, so no idea, if they'll be getting rid of them as quick as we before... we have no idea where the 2020/2021 financial year will be going for orders and even maybe refurbs.

Won't be long before well be guessing what will be order for that year!

I actually forgot that the X6/X7 don't have a proper allocation atm, not sure how busy the X6/X7 actually get, but do they require full sized single deckers? (i know longer buses are allocated for social distancing atm).
As the X6/X7 and 61 PVR combined is 8, giving Deptford 10 more Streetlites would give them an overall of 56 Streetlites with 7 Streetlites as spares.


I doubt the 56 will be dropped from double deckers to single deckers... and i hope to god, Deptford don't get Versa's again....

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I think it was mentioned but that was before the crisis, so no idea, if they'll be getting rid of them as quick as we before... we have no idea where the 2020/2021 financial year will be going for orders and even maybe refurbs.

Won't be long before well be guessing what will be order for that year!

Already started. June to June

Already started. June to June

Ye, personally i doubt orders have gone in due to the crisis and the role it actually played in the transport industry, (no profit and so on), the orders probables won't go in till next year, that's so Go Ahead can see the full impact of Covid.

I have a feeling we won't even see 30 new buses on order this year or even less - with them not arriving until late next year.

Ye, personally i doubt orders have gone in due to the crisis and the role it actually played in the transport industry, (no profit and so on), the orders probables won't go in till next year, that's so Go Ahead can see the full impact of Covid.

I have a feeling we won't even see 30 new buses on order this year or even less - with them not arriving until late next year.

Well no, if any orders are to be placed, it will be between june 2020 and june 2021. Still 11 months yet

Personally I would get rid of 8295 to 8309 before I would start getting rid of the Mercedes Citaros as that batch of Versas from what I remember of them being on the 2's/88's a few years ago they were poor in terms of reliability and always off the road for maintainence. Given they are 11 years old now they are nearly at life expectancy of a Midibus which is 12 Years anyway so not worth refurbishing for the sake of 12-24 months left in the fleet.

Personally I would get rid of 8295 to 8309 before I would start getting rid of the Mercedes Citaros as that batch of Versas from what I remember of them being on the 2's/88's a few years ago they were poor in terms of reliability and always off the road for maintainence. Given they are 11 years old now they are nearly at life expectancy of a Midibus which is 12 Years anyway so not worth refurbishing for the sake of 12-24 months left in the fleet.

I remember when they arrived and they were decent and after about 5 years, and then they went downhill, the layout of the bus has always annoyed me too, everytime someone gets on with a pushchair, it would take your legs off because the placement of the side seats are horrendous.

I do hope if they decide to refurbish the Versa's, then they can do something to order them by brand, so they follow the same set of fleet numbers because atm, the Versa's are all over.

Considering they've just painted a bunch of the 07 plate Citaros into fleet livery, I'm not sure if they'll be the first buses to be withdrawn to be honest, although this was pre-covid.

For those who didn't watch Martjin's video on Friday... he mentioned that a memo had gone out to staff about upcoming fleet changes...they must of finally decided where all the new buses are going, and the cascades!

Hint for Dan

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Considering they've just painted a bunch of the 07 plate Citaros into fleet livery, I'm not sure if they'll be the first buses to be withdrawn to be honest, although this was pre-covid.

Hopefully the older Versa's before the Citaro's

Considering they've just painted a bunch of the 07 plate Citaros into fleet livery, I'm not sure if they'll be the first buses to be withdrawn to be honest, although this was pre-covid.

They have just repainted the last Blaydon Racer example this week and done the Wear Xpress examples prior to covid-19 so they will be here for a while yet,

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I remember when they arrived and they were decent and after about 5 years, and then they went downhill, the layout of the bus has always annoyed me too, everytime someone gets on with a pushchair, it would take your legs off because the placement of the side seats are horrendous.

I do hope if they decide to refurbish the Versa's, then they can do something to order them by brand, so they follow the same set of fleet numbers because atm, the Versa's are all over.

I can remember the South Tyne when they were at Washington always been off the road or kept local on the 80 series services with a Scania L94 on the 88's in their on a daily basis.

They have just repainted the last Blaydon Racer example this week and done the Wear Xpress examples prior to covid-19 so they will be here for a while yet,

Hence why I said as soon as feasibly possible, in the grand scheme of things, repainting a bus costs nowt, even if they only get 6-12 months out of it, it's better than having buses going round in a defunct brand (although the better option would be not to change branding until the new vehicles arrive). Plus, on a single decker, there's actually relatively little bodywork to paint

With the new corporate livery, is it all painted, or are the blue/white/yellow portions vinyl on a red base?

Hence why I said as soon as feasibly possible, in the grand scheme of things, repainting a bus costs nowt, even if they only get 6-12 months out of it, it's better than having buses going round in a defunct brand (although the better option would be not to change branding until the new vehicles arrive). Plus, on a single decker, there's actually relatively little bodywork to paint

With the new corporate livery, is it all painted, or are the blue/white/yellow portions vinyl on a red base?

The red & blue will be painted, the rest should be vinyl

I can remember the South Tyne when they were at Washington always been off the road or kept local on the 80 series services with a Scania L94 on the 88's in their on a daily basis.

I remember that too, they were sometimes were on the old M1 and the 4 too, not sure why... because its a long route, something they can't cope on sometimes..

For those who didn't watch Martjin's video on Friday... he mentioned that a memo had gone out to staff about upcoming fleet changes...they must of finally decided where all the new buses are going, and the cascades!

Hint for Dan

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Hopefully the older Versa's before the Citaro's

Nothing on the memo about where cascades will go, just the released buses will be refreshed. And updated expected arrival dates of new buses. If I remember from the last online talk, the X9/X10 was talked about and the 10 for new buses, dont think we'll see anything new anytime soon.

I actually forgot that the X6/X7 don't have a proper allocation atm, not sure how busy the X6/X7 actually get, but do they require full sized single deckers? (i know longer buses are allocated for social distancing atm).
As the X6/X7 and 61 PVR combined is 8, giving Deptford 10 more Streetlites would give them an overall of 56 Streetlites with 7 Streetlites as spares.


I doubt the 56 will be dropped from double deckers to single deckers... and i hope to god, Deptford don't get Versa's again....

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I think it was mentioned but that was before the crisis, so no idea, if they'll be getting rid of them as quick as we before... we have no idea where the 2020/2021 financial year will be going for orders and even maybe refurbs.

Won't be long before well be guessing what will be order for that year!

58 there not the 56, mistake from me; definitely don't expect the 56 to get them.

Unless they upgrade a solo route to midi buses then there's nothing for the X6/X7 so not much choice for them really. Can't really see any mini bus routes that need bigger buses; only realistic place would be PM to get arid of the awful non-standard Solos but not sure they really need a capacity increase; noticed on the fleet allocation there's a Versa there currently which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

The Omnicities will need replacing there at some point tho as all the full sizes routes go through Newcastle so would need to be LEZ compliant.

Considering they've just painted a bunch of the 07 plate Citaros into fleet livery, I'm not sure if they'll be the first buses to be withdrawn to be honest, although this was pre-covid.

It was more about the LEZ for Riverside, they're going to have go at somepoint and there's not really any other routes left other than the ones already in service at Deptford where they could realistically go unless it's temporarily.

Nothing on the memo about where cascades will go, just the released buses will be refreshed. And updated expected arrival dates of new buses. If I remember from the last online talk, the X9/X10 was talked about and the 10 for new buses, dont think we'll see anything new anytime soon.

Ah right, that's good, least they'll get a refresh. Any changes to the expected date of the new buses?

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58 there not the 56, mistake from me; definitely don't expect the 56 to get them.

Unless they upgrade a solo route to midi buses then there's nothing for the X6/X7 so not much choice for them really. Can't really see any mini bus routes that need bigger buses; only realistic place would be PM to get arid of the awful non-standard Solos but not sure they really need a capacity increase; noticed on the fleet allocation there's a Versa there currently which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere.

The Omnicities will need replacing there at some point tho as all the full sizes routes go through Newcastle so would need to be LEZ compliant.


It was more about the LEZ for Riverside, they're going to have go at somepoint and there's not really any other routes left other than the ones already in service at Deptford where they could realistically go unless it's temporarily.

Hahaha no problem, wasn't the 58 getting electric buses next year, as they got the extra funding for them?


If anything i would of put the Streetlites from the Red Kite on the X20 and put the Solo's on the X6/X7 but that means repainting 3 of the Solo's again, and this climate it won't happen, unless they were to move elsewhere converting another service with a 3 PVR to X-Lines but there's not many.


I wouldn't mind the Omnicities at Deptford, its one of the depots, which have never had them.

Ah right, that's good, least they'll get a refresh. Any changes to the expected date of the new buses?

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August / September.

August / September.

Cool thanks for sharing for the information, =)

Least there's still a while before they arrive, hopefully most of the buses are repainted by then.

Ah right, that's good, least they'll get a refresh. Any changes to the expected date of the new buses?

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Hahaha no problem, wasn't the 58 getting electric buses next year, as they got the extra funding for them?


If anything i would of put the Streetlites from the Red Kite on the X20 and put the Solo's on the X6/X7 but that means repainting 3 of the Solo's again, and this climate it won't happen, unless they were to move elsewhere converting another service with a 3 PVR to X-Lines but there's not many.


I wouldn't mind the Omnicities at Deptford, its one of the depots, which have never had them.

Haha still confused you I meant have them on the 57 so they're with their sisters on the 58 so all the Citylink buses are Versas ha.

Does the X20 need bigger buses, the fact it can run with a capacity of 7 people atm probably means it doesn't.

Remember the 60 will likely to go back up to every 10 minutes, the streetlites spare from the service atm will be required again on the 60.

What is actually allocated to the 61 on a Monday to Friday? (Haven't been that way for a while)

Also wasn't it said that 5481 - 5487 would be one of the first set of Citaro's withdrawnonce the new buses arrive?

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Ah right, cheaper than i thought tbh, so really it wouldn't worth it.

I suspect that some of the frequency reductions will become the new "normal" given that passenger numbers will be reduced for many months to come.

I suspect that some of the frequency reductions will become the new "normal" given that passenger numbers will be reduced for many months to come.

That would be ashame but not surprised, would mean

56 PVR will be 10 PVR drop of 3

60 PVR will be 6 PVR drop of 2

Might mean L469 YVK will get his wish and the 3 spare B9's will go on the X5/X15.

I would imagine the spare Streetlites from the Drifter will stay at Deptford.

If any of that happens.

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Haha still confused you I meant have them on the 57 so they're with their sisters on the 58 so all the Citylink buses are Versas ha.

Does the X20 need bigger buses, the fact it can run with a capacity of 7 people atm probably means it doesn't.

Ah right haha

I suspect that some of the frequency reductions will become the new "normal" given that passenger numbers will be reduced for many months to come.

That maybe true, although I've found the 60 and the 56 are still by far the most used routes at Deptford, so if any routes can recover to restore a "normal" timetable, it would be them two.

That maybe true, although I've found the 60 and the 56 are still by far the most used routes at Deptford, so if any routes can recover to restore a "normal" timetable, it would be them two.

I'm surprised at the 60 mind, especially with the amount of services along its corridor, if anything i thought it would of been one of less used services.

I'm surprised at the 60 mind, especially with the amount of services along its corridor, if anything i thought it would of been one of less used services.

There's certain journey's where you can carry almost nobody to be fair, but over most of the corridor people seem to pick the 60 over every other route. I've been at the back of a queue of buses before 61/23/39 (for example), and people let all three of those buses past and stick their hand out for my 60.