(15 Mar 2020, 9:50 am)JP6004 wrote I think it's quite busy majority of the time and sometimes warrants DD. I'd like to see the B5Hs to be reallocated to 50 some point in future. As they short wheelbase, be ideal providing extra capacity but also being more cost effective. While also maintaining euro 6 emission (once the new engines are fitted)

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Full standing loads are few and far between - summer weekends maybe on the 50 - so as much as I think the B9s would be perfect on them (I've never driven a B5H) its unlikely to be allocated to the 50/5 as DD Euro 6 capacity is likely to be reserved for a service going into the town. The 5 certainly doesn't warrant DD so if they no longer interwork a capacity downgrade for the 5 would be more likely.

50 is probably busy enough to warrant double deckers and the 5 needs a solo to look busy

(15 Mar 2020, 10:07 am)6049 wrote Full standing loads are few and far between - summer weekends maybe on the 50 - so as much as I think the B9s would be perfect on them (I've never driven a B5H) its unlikely to be allocated to the 50/5 as DD Euro 6 capacity is likely to be reserved for a service going into the town. The 5 certainly doesn't warrant DD so if they no longer interwork a capacity downgrade for the 5 would be more likely.

I doubt the council would allow service to be downgraded to euro 5 after funding the mods to make it euro 6. Also euro 6 is being stipulated as a requirement for an increasing number of services outside of the Newcastle CAZ

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Cheers 6049

(15 Mar 2020, 8:55 am)JP6004 wrote The funding was provided by south Tyneside council to upgrade these to euro 6. They have to be allocated to this route for minimum of 3yrs. Believe Dan said they could be reallocated if new new euro 6 buses were purchased for the route

Well that's not likely to happen. Loads are usually good on the Durham - Washington stretch but I can't see it being upgraded like the 97s.

Wonder if Clean Air Zone will be postponed in 2021 in Newcastle as lots of smaller companies will unlikely have funds to invest in Euro 6 vehicles now. Aswell as companies alike Arriva who will suffer significantly as a result of their lack of investment in the North East...

(18 Mar 2020, 7:26 pm)S830OFT wrote Wonder if Clean Air Zone will be postponed in 2021 in Newcastle as lots of smaller companies will unlikely have funds to invest in Euro 6 vehicles now. Aswell as companies alike Arriva who will suffer significantly as a result of their lack of investment in the North East...

You mean their fleet that, bar a handful of vehicles, are all able to be converted to meet spec?

(18 Mar 2020, 7:26 pm)S830OFT wrote Wonder if Clean Air Zone will be postponed in 2021 in Newcastle as lots of smaller companies will unlikely have funds to invest in Euro 6 vehicles now. Aswell as companies alike Arriva who will suffer significantly as a result of their lack of investment in the North East...

Would should our city’s residents, workers and visitors health suffer significantly because of Arriva’s lack of investment?

It really feels like we have gone back in time with Sunderland services 2 and 39s. Versa and solo come on  go north east what you playing at? Versas are cramped and destination displays you can’t even read in daylight. It’s like we’ve gone back 10 years to when they were simplicity. And mini links as we call them on the 39s. I dread these buses when the schools come out!!
Proves Sunderland passengers are second class over Newcastle. We deserve better.

(02 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm)Acky81 wrote It really feels like we have gone back in time with Sunderland services 2 and 39s. Versa and solo come on  go north east what you playing at? Versas are cramped and destination displays you can’t even read in daylight. It’s like we’ve gone back 10 years to when they were simplicity. And mini links as we call them on the 39s. I dread these buses when the schools come out!!
Proves Sunderland passengers are second class over Newcastle. We deserve better.

I am not from Sunderland, but I agree. Someone was on about XLines consett getting new buses in 4 years, as they are most profitable. Look in Sunderland, Drifter/56/50/9 and all the old Citaros which they got due to Newcastle Euro 6 Limit. The Sunderland District are half arsed attempt to bring passengers back. Where as in Newcaslte/Consett they get wireless charging. I don't see any new buses coming to Sunderland for 4 years. While GNE are busy in Newcastle. They'll probs take all the euro 6 buses off Sunderland. 
I do agree. Especially when someone was like why upgrade the most profitable services every 4 years. There are other services which are busier which are running 8-11 year old buses.

I don't care what anyone says unless they are replacing the Venture (a brand which is on its knees) Consett should not get anything for 4-5 years.

(02 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm)Acky81 wrote It really feels like we have gone back in time with Sunderland services 2 and 39s. Versa and solo come on  go north east what you playing at? Versas are cramped and destination displays you can’t even read in daylight. It’s like we’ve gone back 10 years to when they were simplicity. And mini links as we call them on the 39s. I dread these buses when the schools come out!!
Proves Sunderland passengers are second class over Newcastle. We deserve better.

Covid, no profits/ funds to acquire new buses, plus the Newcastle CAZ, is just a perfect storm. Would you prefer GNE to pay £50 for everytime a non euro 6 bus enters newcastle, then raise prices and restrict growth and investment?

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(02 Sep 2021, 9:54 pm)Keeiajs wrote I am not from Sunderland, but I agree. Someone was on about XLines consett getting new buses in 4 years, as they are most profitable. Look in Sunderland, Drifter/56/50/9 and all the old Citaros which they got due to Newcastle Euro 6 Limit. The Sunderland District are half arsed attempt to bring passengers back. Where as in Newcaslte/Consett they get wireless charging. I don't see any new buses coming to Sunderland for 4 years. While GNE are busy in Newcastle. They'll probs take all the euro 6 buses off Sunderland. 
I do agree. Especially when someone was like why upgrade the most profitable services every 4 years. There are other services which are busier which are running 8-11 year old buses.

I don't care what anyone says unless they are replacing the Venture (a brand which is on its knees) Consett should not get anything for 4-5 years.

Why shouldn't they if they get funding for the electric vehicles? The 1yo DD would no doubt go to upgrade services across the network

(02 Sep 2021, 10:02 pm)JP6004 wrote Covid, no profits/ funds to acquire new buses, plus the Newcastle CAZ, is just a perfect storm. Would you prefer GNE to pay £50 for everytime a non euro 6 bus enters newcastle, then raise prices and restrict growth and investment?

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Why shouldn't they if they get funding for the electric vehicles? The 1yo DD would no doubt go to upgrade services across the network

First of all, they shouldn't just pass the older buses onto a different depot. And Other older buses should be replaced by brand new ones, especially when quite a lot of the time these new Xlines buses have 15-25 people on. The funding for since 2018 has been on Newcaslte/Consett and it seems to be like that for atleast the next 2-3 years. And I am not from Sunderland but anyone who has a brain cell can see that.

Its an absolute disgrace. I’d pull all services out of Newcastle. Dictating council as per usual. It’s going no different to the air. As I say why should other areas suffer for Newcastle.
North Tyneside had quality vehicles for its passengers and yes I know we got them in Sunderland but that was a poor move for passengers up there. We have or will soon not have the 17 plate streetlites absolutely shocking from a passenger POV.

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XLines IMO is a shambles!!!
X1 I get but why change 45 46 and 47 - I don’t believe these routes should be xlines. XLines should be limited stop only

(02 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)Acky81 wrote Its an absolute disgrace. I’d pull all services out of Newcastle. Dictating council as per usual. It’s going no different to the air. As I say why should other areas suffer for Newcastle.
North Tyneside had quality vehicles for its passengers and yes I know we got them in Sunderland but that was a poor move for passengers up there. We have or will soon not have the 17 plate streetlites absolutely shocking from a passenger POV.

i mean if ur not in Newcaslte, or your service doesn't go into Newcaslte don't except anything new. Someone was on about new ebuses for consett, why there is no need. Those E400 are only going to be put back onto a new newcaslte service. Consett & Newcastle don't need anything after these 2022 clean air thing. Deptford & Washington (50) better get some investments. We can tell the Sunderland District was a shit attempt to bring passengers back with okay colour schemes and awful names "Voilet" "Blue" talk about originality. 

Consett should get nothing neither should Newcastle when the clean air ban comes untill atleast 2025. 

(02 Sep 2021, 10:10 pm)Keeiajs wrote First of all, they shouldn't just pass the older buses onto a different depot. And Other older buses should be replaced by brand new ones, especially when quite a lot of the time these new Xlines buses have 15-25 people on. The funding for since 2018 has been on Newcaslte/Consett and it seems to be like that for atleast the next 2-3 years. And I am not from Sunderland but anyone who has a brain cell can see that.

So you would prefer sunderland to keep their 4yo buses and for GNE to be charged £1000s to operate in newcastle? Sunderland has received investment in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Consett only received new vehicles in  2006, 2013, 2016, 2019/20

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(02 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)Acky81 wrote Its an absolute disgrace. I’d pull all services out of Newcastle. Dictating council as per usual. It’s going no different to the air. As I say why should other areas suffer for Newcastle.
North Tyneside had quality vehicles for its passengers and yes I know we got them in Sunderland but that was a poor move for passengers up there. We have or will soon not have the 17 plate streetlites absolutely shocking from a passenger POV.

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XLines IMO is a shambles!!!
X1 I get but why change 45 46 and 47 - I don’t believe these routes should be xlines. XLines should be limited stop only

No more limited stop than the X30/31/70/71/72

Yes I would like Sunderland to keep its 4 year old buses. If I was go north east I’d threaten to pull out of Newcastle. I’m sure the council wouldn’t want that.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:19 pm)JP6004 wrote So you would prefer sunderland to keep their 4yo buses and for GNE to be charged £1000s to operate in newcastle? Sunderland has received investment in 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Consett only received new vehicles in  2006, 2013, 2016, 2019/20

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No more limited stop than the X30/31/70/71/72

Didn't Consett get new buses in and 2006/7/8 with the Omnicitys2013/2015/2016/2018/2019/2020. Sunderland got nothing in 2008. The only reason they got new buses in 2011 were because 2/2A were operating buses from before 2000's. Sunderland got nothing in 2015. 2016 after 12 years old vehicles.
A exception was Drifter which got new buses in 2009 & 2013 due to capacity reasons. But those 2009 buses were kept and placed on the 39. Xlines Consett/Stanley services when I have checked which is normally every 1-3 Hours the most I have seen in 25.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:24 pm)Keeiajs wrote Didn't Consett get new buses in 2013/2015/2016/2018/2019/2020. Sunderland got nothing in 2008. The only reason they got new buses in 2011 were because 2/2A were operating buses from before 2000's. Sunderland got nothing in 2015. 2016 after 12 years old vehicles.
A exception was Drifter which got new buses in 2009 & 2013 due to capacity reasons. But those 2009 buses were kept and placed on the 39. Xlines Consett/Stanley services when I have checked which is normally every 1-3 Hours the most I have seen in 25.

Sunderland received citaros for the 35 in 2008. And that is my point, the 2009 versa upgraded the 39 from 54 reg MPDs. That's what happens when new buses are bought
The 18reg solos and 15 reg streetlites were all based at chester I believe. So all in all, sunderland has received a lot more investment than consett. But this doesn't negate the point that it doesn't matter where new vehicles are allocated, other depots will benefit from cascades

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(02 Sep 2021, 10:24 pm)Keeiajs wrote Didn't Consett get new buses in and 2006/7/8

No the citaros on the diamond were cascades from the 58

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(02 Sep 2021, 10:23 pm)Acky81 wrote Yes I would like Sunderland to keep its 4 year old buses. If I was go north east I’d threaten to pull out of Newcastle. I’m sure the council wouldn’t want  that.

Probs best to pull out of Sunderland....least the buses would stay looking new for longer 

(02 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm)Acky81 wrote It really feels like we have gone back in time with Sunderland services 2 and 39s. Versa and solo come on  go north east what you playing at? Versas are cramped and destination displays you can’t even read in daylight. It’s like we’ve gone back 10 years to when they were simplicity. And mini links as we call them on the 39s. I dread these buses when the schools come out!!
Proves Sunderland passengers are second class over Newcastle. We deserve better.

I don't mind the Versas on the 2/2A to be honest. They have the same seating capacity as a Streetlite, although its claimed the latter can have 30 standees... I'd be interested to see that attempted! 
I do agree it is a backward step though, and Sunderland/Washington are suffering to the benefit of Newcastle. Whilst I understand why GNE are doing it (i.e. making best use of their resources), it doesn't exactly fit into the 'Better than Ever' narrative that is constantly banded about these days... you had a brand spanking new Streetlite with all the mod-cons before the lockdowns, but now you've got a grubby aging Versa.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:02 pm)JP6004 wrote Covid, no profits/ funds to acquire new buses, plus the Newcastle CAZ, is just a perfect storm. Would you prefer GNE to pay £50 for everytime a non euro 6 bus enters newcastle, then raise prices and restrict growth and investment?

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Why shouldn't they if they get funding for the electric vehicles? The 1yo DD would no doubt go to upgrade services across the network

Why do they have to prefer an alternative if they don't like what they're given? I really dislike this "put up and shut up" attitude, and its part of the reason public transport in the UK is so backward thinking on the large part.

What they're doing is with valid reason, but what's happening over the water is irrelevant to customers in Sunderland, who only see an old bus pull up instead of the new one they might have been used to. When you're trying to attract new customers, first impressions are everything. They're not going to care what an operators overheads are, just what the end result is.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:19 pm)Keeiajs wrote i mean if ur not in Newcaslte, or your service doesn't go into Newcaslte don't except anything new. Someone was on about new ebuses for consett, why there is no need. Those E400 are only going to be put back onto a new newcaslte service. Consett & Newcastle don't need anything after these 2022 clean air thing. Deptford & Washington (50) better get some investments. We can tell the Sunderland District was a shit attempt to bring passengers back with okay colour schemes and awful names "Voilet" "Blue" talk about originality. 

Consett should get nothing neither should Newcastle when the clean air ban comes untill atleast 2025. 

Just because "someone was on about" something, does not mean you need to take it as gospel. People come out with rubbish all of the time.

Consett to Newcastle has to main a strategic corridor for Newcastle, especially when they have an MP who believes in fantasy and the possibility of the Metro coming to Consett. The more GNE can do to prove that is not required and in fact they have a top class bus network, it can only benefit their business. I personally believe that a Consett to Newcastle direct rail link is complete pie in the sky, but if the end result would decimate the business in the area, I would not be taking any chances.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:45 pm)Adrian wrote I don't mind the Versas on the 2/2A to be honest. They have the same seating capacity as a Streetlite, although its claimed the latter can have 30 standees... I'd be interested to see that attempted! 
I do agree it is a backward step though, and Sunderland/Washington are suffering to the benefit of Newcastle. Whilst I understand why GNE are doing it (i.e. making best use of their resources), it doesn't exactly fit into the 'Better than Ever' narrative that is constantly banded about these days... you had a brand spanking new Streetlite with all the mod-cons before the lockdowns, but now you've got a grubby aging Versa.


Why do they have to prefer an alternative if they don't like what they're given? I really dislike this "put up and shut up" attitude, and its part of the reason public transport in the UK is so backward thinking on the large part.

What they're doing is with valid reason, but what's happening over the water is irrelevant to customers in Sunderland, who only see an old bus pull up instead of the new one they might have been used to. When you're trying to attract new customers, first impressions are everything. They're not going to care what an operators overheads are, just what the end result is.


Just because "someone was on about" something, does not mean you need to take it as gospel. People come out with rubbish all of the time.

Consett to Newcastle has to main a strategic corridor for Newcastle, especially when they have an MP who believes in fantasy and the possibility of the Metro coming to Consett. The more GNE can do to prove that is not required and in fact they have a top class bus network, it can only benefit their business. I personally believe that a Consett to Newcastle direct rail link is complete pie in the sky, but if the end result would decimate the business in the area, I would not be taking any chances.

That MP is deluded if he thinks that Metro is coming to consett. It will be going to Seaham/Team Valley. first. If the Metro does come to Seaham GNE has some major competition. Consett is never getting a train line.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:45 pm)Adrian wrote Why do they have to prefer an alternative if they don't like what they're given? I really dislike this "put up and shut up" attitude, and its part of the reason public transport in the UK is so backward thinking on the large part.

It's not put up or shut up. People are going to peeved either way. But if changes arent made to address the CAZ, this will be of detriment to the whole network. Just some people arent able to grasp with the reasoning. Yes the average Joe bloggs will see a backward step, but I believe the refurb is trying to offset some of the negativity.....although the USBs on the versas haven't been installed yet

(02 Sep 2021, 10:24 pm)Keeiajs wrote Didn't Consett get new buses in and 2006/7/8 with the Omnicitys2013/2015/2016/2018/2019/2020. Sunderland got nothing in 2008. The only reason they got new buses in 2011 were because 2/2A were operating buses from before 2000's. Sunderland got nothing in 2015. 2016 after 12 years old vehicles.
A exception was Drifter which got new buses in 2009 & 2013 due to capacity reasons. But those 2009 buses were kept and placed on the 39. Xlines Consett/Stanley services when I have checked which is normally every 1-3 Hours the most I have seen in 25.

I know this is a controversial way to look at it but I wouldn't be surprised if Consett is partly funding part of the Sunderland network and most of the Peterlee network. Routes like the X45/X46 make money. Routes like the 33, 38, 39/39A, all Peterlee routes probably make pennies but you can't exactly just pull out altogether without a massive backlash and the damaging PR which would affect the profitable routes in Sunderland ie the 8/78 and 20. The fact most of them don't run in the evenings or are subsidised shows how well they do.

It's the same in Washington, the X1 will be funding the Washington locals etc but they can't exactly just pull out there without it damaging their profitable routes ie the X1 and 4.

(02 Sep 2021, 11:01 pm)Storx wrote I know this is a controversial way to look at it but I wouldn't be surprised if Consett is partly funding part of the Sunderland network and most of the Peterlee network. Routes like the X45/X46 make money. Routes like the 33, 38, 39/39A, all Peterlee routes probably make pennies but you can't exactly just pull out altogether without a massive backlash and the damaging PR which would affect the profitable routes in Sunderland ie the 8/78 and 20. The fact most of them don't run in the evenings or are subsidised shows how well they do.

It's the same in Washington, the X1 will be funding the Washington locals etc but they can't exactly just pull out there without it damaging their profitable routes ie the X1 and 4.

Why would that be a controversial way to look at it? That's just business!

It's somewhat common practice to continuously upgrade the routes that make the most money and/or have the most potential to grow, its not unique to just GNE in the NE, Arriva's favoured routes for new stock is the X21/X22 at Ashington and the 1/5/5A & 7 in Darlington whilst Stagecoach upgrade the 36/37/38 on Teesside roughly every 5 years, this in turn allows cascades to some other busy routes and then again to lower used routes a bit further down the line.

In four years from now you have to think that if little/no other investments are made, the 27 will have 14 year old B9s and Tens will be 12/13 year old, whilst brand new buses would be nice for these routes, 5 year old StreetDecks and E400s are still an upgrade over what is currently used.

Consett/Stanley has been somewhat the forgotten middle child up until recently, about the only real big investments was the 45/46 and even that went 9 years between the Omnis to the Lites and the Ventures in 2013, beyond that the likes of the 15/15A & X70/X71 felt like the place where deckers go to die, of course 16/16A got new Lites in 2016 too but now being replaced with older B5s but an upgrade in capacity, 2015 was the point things made a slight improvement with some new stock and slightly younger cascades, the ex London B9s was a good start in terms of improving things but I think there's been some potential for more.

(02 Sep 2021, 11:44 pm)Jimmi wrote It's somewhat common practice to continuously upgrade the routes that make the most money and/or have the most potential to grow, its not unique to just GNE in the NE, Arriva's favoured routes for new stock is the X21/X22 at Ashington and the 1/5/5A & 7 in Darlington whilst Stagecoach upgrade the 36/37/38 on Teesside roughly every 5 years, this in turn allows cascades to some other busy routes and then again to lower used routes a bit further down the line.

In four years from now you have to think that if little/no other investments are made, the 27 will have 14 year old B9s and Tens will be 12/13 year old, whilst brand new buses would be nice for these routes, 5 year old StreetDecks and E400s are still an upgrade over what is currently used.

Consett/Stanley has been somewhat the forgotten middle child up until recently, about the only real big investments was the 45/46 and even that went 9 years between the Omnis to the Lites and the Ventures in 2013, beyond that the likes of the 15/15A & X70/X71 felt like the place where deckers go to die, of course 16/16A got new Lites in 2016 too but now being replaced with older B5s but an upgrade in capacity, 2015 was the point things made a slight improvement with some new stock and slightly younger cascades, the ex London B9s was a good start in terms of improving things but I think there's been some potential for more.

I wonder if the B5Hs will be getting USB ports installed as that is the only thing I can see as a downgrade from the Streetlites.

(03 Sep 2021, 12:13 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if the B5Hs will be getting USB ports installed as that is the only thing I can see as a downgrade from the Streetlites.

There do, unlike Sunderland berries they got installed before they went back in service

(02 Sep 2021, 11:01 pm)Storx wrote I know this is a controversial way to look at it but I wouldn't be surprised if Consett is partly funding part of the Sunderland network and most of the Peterlee network. Routes like the X45/X46 make money. Routes like the 33, 38, 39/39A, all Peterlee routes probably make pennies but you can't exactly just pull out altogether without a massive backlash and the damaging PR which would affect the profitable routes in Sunderland ie the 8/78 and 20. The fact most of them don't run in the evenings or are subsidised shows how well they do.

It's the same in Washington, the X1 will be funding the Washington locals etc but they can't exactly just pull out there without it damaging their profitable routes ie the X1 and 4.

Well tbh, I do understand looking at the 33/38/39/39A, but really the 39/39A are over capacity. But really the 33/38 normally have around 10 people in which is sometimes more than the X45/46 Streetlites have on.

But I do understand not all routes are profitable but that doesn't mean you can cascade 12-14 year old buses on other routes which are quite busy. I understand if a route loses money put maybe older buses on and I totally get that. However that doesn't mean that a area can be neglected I understand Peterlee it has one set of buses, that isn't expected for a upgrade for a while. But Deptford, 60/20/61/56/9 the busiest routes out of Sunderland (I think), Yes the 20 buses is 5 years old, they don't need nothing yet, 56 just been refurbed, I would have moved those buses to the 50. And replace the Drifter 60 with newer bsues, and put 5369-5372 on 61 with a new livery. 

But what I don't agree with is focusing of select routes and upgrading them every 4 years, when they really don't need to. if I was in sunderland and I lost a 17' plate bus, and got a 11' I would be unhappy. And if a area got new buses every 3-4 years and the buses which are now "free" be moved to a different area with less investment I would be angry, imo to GNE Sunderland is second class to all the newcastle services. And I don't really think people can disagree with that.

(02 Sep 2021, 9:48 pm)Acky81 wrote Proves Sunderland passengers are second class over Newcastle. We deserve better.

Vehicles operators are simply ensuring their vehicles meet any Clean Air Zone requirements to avoid charges and moving their none-compliant vehicles to outlying areas.
This is not unique to Go North East or even the bus industry, and it is not unique to Newcastle, it happens wherever an emissions based charging system occurs.

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(02 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm)Acky81 wrote Its an absolute disgrace. I’d pull all services out of Newcastle. Dictating council as per usual. It’s going no different to the air. As I say why should other areas suffer for Newcastle.

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That is just rubbish. Central Government gave Newcastle, Gateshead and North Tyneside Councils a legal order to address the illegal levels of pollution in their areas as quickly as possible.
The Clean Air Zone was proposed as a result of the legal order from Government.

To suggest Go North East spit the dummy and pull all their services out of Newcastle is just ridiculous. Newcastle is the regional capital afterall.

It’s not just the council and government that want cleaner air, residents do too.
I recall a number of years ago residents in Gosforth campaigned against Arriva North East’s decision to run their old polluting ex-London buses along Gosforth High Street (through the Gosforth Air Quality Management Zone). Their campaigning paid off and Arriva replaced the usual allocation of old ex-London stock with Enviro400s.

(02 Sep 2021, 10:23 pm)Acky81 wrote Yes I would like Sunderland to keep its 4 year old buses. If I was go north east I’d threaten to pull out of Newcastle. I’m sure the council wouldn’t want  that.

Go North East wouldn’t want that! Newcastle is the regional capital!
It’s also good for Go Ahead to invest in their fleet for the green credentials and image of their company.

(03 Sep 2021, 12:16 am)Ds1197 wrote There do, unlike Sunderland berries they got installed before they went back in service

Well, if that's the case then I'd happily take one of the B5Hs over a Streetlite! They're so much nicer.

I hope they don't remove the hybrid system on any more of them as it's my favourite part of using them! I find it quite fun trying to guess when the diesel engine is going to kick in.

(03 Sep 2021, 1:06 am)Keeiajs wrote Well tbh, I do understand looking at the 33/38/39/39A, but really the 39/39A are over capacity. But really the 33/38 normally have around 10 people in which is sometimes more than the X45/46 Streetlites have on.

But I do understand not all routes are profitable but that doesn't mean you can cascade 12-14 year old buses on other routes which are quite busy. I understand if a route loses money put maybe older buses on and I totally get that. However that doesn't mean that a area can be neglected I understand Peterlee it has one set of buses, that isn't expected for a upgrade for a while. But Deptford, 60/20/61/56/9 the busiest routes out of Sunderland (I think), Yes the 20 buses is 5 years old, they don't need nothing yet, 56 just been refurbed, I would have moved those buses to the 50. And replace the Drifter 60 with newer bsues, and put 5369-5372 on 61 with a new livery. 

But what I don't agree with is focusing of select routes and upgrading them every 4 years, when they really don't need to. if I was in sunderland and I lost a 17' plate bus, and got a 11' I would be unhappy. And if a area got new buses every 3-4 years and the buses which are now "free" be moved to a different area with less investment I would be angry, imo to GNE Sunderland is second class to all the newcastle services. And I don't really think people can disagree with that.

This is why there needs to be less focus on the age of vehicles! If a 10 year old vehicle is more comfortable, reliable and of an equivalent or higher specification than a 4 year old vehicle, that would definitely be considered an upgrade!

Don't forget, even the likes of the New Routemaster are getting on for 10 years old now! I'm sure you wouldn't complain if you got a refurbished one of those!

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