You are right about the tyne bridge being used by cars not going to Newcastle City Centre

There is an alternative  and that is for the Nexus and the major bus companies to "campaign" for the Tyne Tunnel toll to be reduced to a £1

Push those cars to use the tyne tunnel and A1

It is clearly the price aka toll money which is forcing cars not to use it

I know the debate becomes well we should be pushing people out of cars but these are already NIMBY so short -Medium term if we can't get them out of cars let's move them away from traffic jam areas.

I need to use my car to work  however where possible I use the bus I do not use the bus to get to work as it takes 1hr 40mins or 50min then 32minute walk vs a car which is 15-20min

For my other job due to the tunnel price it is often about the same price as to drive via tyne bridge I'd prob save if I did the journey 4 times a day at £2 I'd save about £200 and I don't think it would be that in fuel so there is a saving.

We have the combined authority constantly increasing the tunnel toll every year which is pushing cars else where

I am not confident that the tunnel does not make a profit from all the unpaid toll charges to offset the cost of after all the tunnel is running to capacity anyway last report i saw was about 40%-60% capacity

Let's push the traffic through the tunnel instead of the tyne bridge

Honestly can't disagree with that. I know the tunnel money is ring fenced against the new tunnel but I always think it would make sense to make the tunnel free, but make the bridges paid instead with that money going towards the tunnel construction costs.

It's counter productive charging people a premium to avoid Newcastle. The bridges through Newcastle isn't the end of the world now there's a route to go around both East and West even known the moaning would be through the roof.

Journeys such as South Shields to Newcastle is much quicker to go via the tunnel then in via the Coast Road but no-one would do that.

To be honest, I think the big issue we're battling is the Uber / PCP Rangey Brigade.

Could have a fantastic bus or metro service from an estate into Newcastle....but convincing people in that category yo make the switch is another thing. High car ownership / low deprivation areas are always going to be an uphill struggle.

Prime example although not a housing estate....someome staying at the Village Hotel and wants to head into Newcastle for a few drinks........

- 309 to the City in less than 30 minutes and £2 per head
- 23:45 last bus back to the Hotel

Yet.....see plenty of Nearby, Uber, Blueline cars pulling up outside.

To be fair.....GNE should really be pushing this from their end and engaging businesses. When Sam Fender and Pink was on......plenty of taxis being phoned but no direction to a bus stop literally across the road.

To be honest, I think the big issue we're battling is the Uber / PCP Rangey Brigade.

Could have a fantastic bus or metro service from an estate into Newcastle....but convincing people in that category yo make the switch is another thing. High car ownership / low deprivation areas are always going to be an uphill struggle.

Prime example although not a housing estate....someome staying at the Village Hotel and wants to head into Newcastle for a few drinks........

- 309 to the City in less than 30 minutes and £2 per head
- 23:45 last bus back to the Hotel

Yet.....see plenty of Nearby, Uber, Blueline cars pulling up outside.

To be fair.....GNE should really be pushing this from their end and engaging businesses. When Sam Fender and Pink was on......plenty of taxis being phoned but no direction to a bus stop literally across the road.

These aren't the problem though, it's a few people going out once a week when the roads are completely dead.

If people want to use taxis that's their choice, it's keeping an industry in place. 

It's people using cars to get to work who pretty much have no alternative. Nissan for example is one of the biggest employment sites around, try getting there from Heworth or Fellgate around 2 mile away - it's impossible. Cobalt is the biggest business park, try getting there from Jarrow again around 2 mile away. 

Going on the make driving worse to improve public transport better is the wrong approach, what should be done is looking at ways of getting cars out of the centre of Newcastle. For example does it really matter if the A1/A19 loop has 100k cars all around free flowing but the city centre is car free?

On the Tyne Bridge vs Tyne Tunnel thing, on my regular journey to the Heaton area I don't think there's much difference timewise. But the Tunnel charges a toll, so it'll always be in via the Felling bypass and across the Tyne Bridge for me. Make the Tunnel free, and I'd be far more likely to use it.

On the Tyne Bridge vs Tyne Tunnel thing, on my regular journey to the Heaton area I don't think there's much difference timewise.  But the Tunnel charges a toll, so it'll always be in via the Felling bypass and across the Tyne Bridge for me.  Make the Tunnel free, and I'd be far more likely to use it.

Or, they could make public transport viable and you (and all of the others queueing up on the Felling Bypass) may be encouraged to use that instead. 

Yet those in their ivory towers seem to think that all of the traffic crossing the river, is going to or from the City Centre OR think passengers are happy to change buses there*

Let's be honest, they're not and they aren't.

*even more evident with this ridiculous Tyne Bridge/Metrocentre P&R scheme.

bring 55 back and it to be every 30 mins runing by sunderland connect solo - aswell as 664 all be painted into violet 55 livery

bring 55 back and it to be every 30 mins runing by sunderland connect solo - aswell as 664 all be painted into violet 55 livery

Won't be anymore violets. Not sure 55 would muster enough for a 30 min service.

Won't be anymore violets. Not sure 55 would muster enough for a 30 min service.

what livery should it be - i say a ew livery on the solos 726-727-728 and 664

bring 55 back and it to be every 30 mins runing by sunderland connect solo - aswell as 664 all be painted into violet 55 livery

Wouldn't bring back the 55 back personally I'd do

19: Sunderland to Grasmere Lane (Every 30 Minutes), 20 Route Sunderland to Houghton, 35 Route to The Crescent, loop around Nidderdale Avernue, X1 Route to Grasmere Lane
20: Sunderland to Durham (Every 15 Minutes)
X20: Sunderland to Langley Park Express (Every 30 Minutes)

19/20/X20: Every 7.5 Minutes Sunderland to Houghton

X1 omit Grasmere Loop in South Hetton

33: Withdrawn
34: Houghton Le Spring to Sunderland Docks (Every 30 Minutes), 35A Route from Sunderland to Houghton, 33 around docks
35: Silksworth to Boldon (Every 30 Minutes), 35A Route from Silksworth to Sunderland, 35 Route to Boldon

34/35: Every 15 Minutes, Sunderland to Silksworth via Hospital

61: Withdrawn
X6: No Changes
X7: Sunderland to Murton (Every 30 Minutes), X6 Route from Sunderland to Dalton Park, 61 Loop around Murton

X6/X7: Every 15 Minutes, Seaham to Sunderland

The 35 is one long winded bus route serving everywhere and anywhere to no benefit of anyone and would knock off about 15 minutes for someone travelling from Sunderland to Hetton which is substantial.

Would an EV Decker be able to a full day on the X21, i want to design a half hourly competing* route between Newcastle & Spennymoor. 

*Would be based on the old 724 route but via Saltwell Park & Central Station instead of Low Fell & Gateshead.

Would an EV Decker be able to a full day on the X21, i want to design a half hourly competing* route between Newcastle & Spennymoor. 

*Would be based on the old 724 route but via Saltwell Park & Central Station instead of Low Fell & Gateshead.

Out of interest why would you send a bus along Saltwell Road? If you want a direct competitior, avoid low fell and do the A1

Would an EV Decker be able to a full day on the X21, i want to design a half hourly competing* route between Newcastle & Spennymoor. 
*Would be based on the old 724 route but via Saltwell Park & Central Station instead of Low Fell & Gateshead.

I'm not saying it would work but and big if you wanted to compete against those corridors I'd heading towards Darlington and taking on the 7 instead of the oversaturated Spennymoor corridor.

Maybe something like this: https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newcastl...?entry=ttu

which would be

Newcastle - Gateshead - NON STOP - Heworth - Felling Bypass - Lingley Lane - NON STOP - Concord - NON STOP - Washington Galleries - NON STOP - Carrville - Belmont Ind. Est - NON STOP - Durham - Durham University - Shincliffe - NON STOP - Bowburn (1 Stop Only) - NON STOP - Amazon Durham - Ferryhill - Ferryhill Station - Chilton - Newton Aycliffe - Aycliffe Village - NON STOP - Ashleigh House (North Road) - NON STOP - Morrisons North Road - NON STOP - Odeon Cinema - Darlington

The fact the Amazon is still unserved is poor and you're taking on the 8 and 56 which are neglected by Arriva as an understatement.

You could alternatively go for this route via Sedgefield either which would make the locals happy there - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Newcastl...?entry=ttu

The links between Washington and Durham are particularly poor aswell, so sending an express via that route which wouldn't be much longer - if at all than via Chester Le Street could proove popular, not to mention it's some competition for the GNE 4/56 and give a fast route from the Concord area towards Newcastle direct.

Obviously GNE wouldn't touch this mind as it would cripple the 4, 50 and 56.

I dont think it would cripple either the 4/50/56.

Also I want the 20/A&7 to be combined idk why I just think it would be a good idea, then you could ahve the X20 Sunderland - Durham (actual express) to express to Darlington

I dont think it would cripple either the 4/50/56.

Also I want the 20/A&7 to be combined idk why I just think it would be a good idea, then you could ahve the X20 Sunderland - Durham (actual express) to express to Darlington

See I think the 6 should be scrapped me like and replaced as an extended X20 with the X20/X21 running through to Cockfield / Ramshaw destinations. Would make more sense.

It's too overbussed ATM but would never work with 2 operators.

Keep the 20 doing the Langley Park extension instead.

Out of interest why would you send a bus along Saltwell Road? If you want a direct competitior, avoid low fell and do the A1

Direct links from CLS, Birtley & Harlow Green to Saltwell Park. i have a list of ideas for Other parts of Durham, East Gateshead & Washington as well.

Attached Files

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Sparrow Buses Routes.pdf (Size 22.28 KB Downloads 33)

Not just for GNE but for any NE Operator, would the 526, 531/532, 542, 543 or 544 be useful in 2024. 
Are there any routes in south tyneside that would get passengers even if they don't serve Shields?

Not just for GNE but for any NE Operator, would the 526, 531/532, 542, 543 or 544 be useful in 2024. 
Are there any routes in south tyneside that would get passengers even if they don't serve Shields?

Biggest failure for me when GNE withdrew most of routes from Shiellds was lack of iniative.

Simonside and Biddick Hall to Boldon Asda

Via Biddick Hall had many routes in past which could still be utliised

Via Whiteleas and Cleadon to Sunderland
Via Brockley Whins and Scotch Estate to Washington

A service to/from Brockley Whins metro station like we used to previously.

Biggest failure for me when GNE withdrew most of routes from Shiellds was lack of iniative.

Simonside and Biddick Hall to Boldon Asda

Via Biddick Hall had many routes in past which could still be utliised

Via Whiteleas and Cleadon to Sunderland
Via Brockley Whins and Scotch Estate to Washington

A service to/from Brockley Whins metro station like we used to previously.

I know some places have the 10 but it does every (harton) nook and cranny and there should be at least something else.

I know some places have the 10 but it does every (harton) nook and cranny and there should be at least something else.

Yes the 10 serves Biddick Hall, but doesnt serve the placea i mentioned.

Deregulation 1986 we had the 531 to Cleadon, that could be part of a service extended to Sunderland linked with 24.

We had the 310/538/542 which served Boldon Asda

538/542 served Brockley Whins metro and now its a minimum 15 walk through the nature reserve' to get to nearest metro.

I mentioned Washington as to be honest with the retail park and Galleries there is much more there, than there is in South Shields.  Yes the 50 goes to Washington but still got to walk to Whiteleas Bridge another 10-15 walk or introduce a service to operate via Follingsby also

Yes the 10 serves Biddick Hall, but doesnt serve the placea i mentioned.

Deregulation 1986 we had the 531 to Cleadon, that could be part of a service extended to Sunderland linked with 24.

We had the 310/538/542 which served Boldon Asda

538/542 served Brockley Whins metro and now its a minimum 15 walk through the nature reserve' to get to nearest metro.

I mentioned Washington as to be honest with the retail park and Galleries there is much more there, than there is in South Shields.  Yes the 50 goes to Washington but still got to walk to Whiteleas Bridge another 10-15 walk or introduce a service to operate via Follingsby also

Could you extend the 516 along harton lane, green lane, inverness road & edinburgh road then down the A194. 

My other idea is an hourly 13 (Ayton, Crowther, Oxclose, Washington, Biddick, Teal Farm, Waterview Park, Nissan, then A19 to Boldon) interworked with an hourly 14 (Boldon, Whiteleas, Biddick Hall, Brockley Whins, Low Simonside, Hill Park, Jarrow)

Could you extend the 516 along harton lane, green lane, inverness road & edinburgh road then down the A194. 

My other idea is an hourly 13 (Ayton, Crowther, Oxclose, Washington, Biddick, Teal Farm, Waterview Park, Nissan, then A19 to Boldon) interworked with an hourly 14 (Boldon, Whiteleas, Biddick Hall, Brockley Whins, Low Simonside, Hill Park, Jarrow)

Problem is, that is still too similar to the 10, also you cannot get Brockley Whins to Low Simonside wothout either gping through narrow residential street or going to Lindisfarn Roundabout then doubling back to John Reid Road roundabout.  A mass of traffic and lights.

Whiteleas tp Jarrow via that route (existing 10 also, takes nigh on 30 mins which is far too long)

Problem is, that is still too similar to the 10, also you cannot get Brockley Whins to Low Simonside wothout either gping through narrow residential street or going to Lindisfarn Roundabout then doubling back to John Reid Road roundabout.  A mass of traffic and lights.

Whiteleas tp Jarrow via that route (existing 10 also, takes nigh on 30 mins which is far too long)

That was the 542 route though, which is what my original idea was about, reinstating the 526, 531/532, 542/543 & 544 as they were in about 2004/2005 with the same routes and frequencies.

That was the 542 route though, which is what my original idea was about, reinstating the 526, 531/532, 542/543 & 544 as they were in about 2004/2005 with the same routes and frequencies.

out of interest what were the routes and freqs? 
(I don't think they have been mentioned yet?)

out of interest what were the routes and freqs? 
(I don't think they have been mentioned yet?)

I think they were hourly, and the 544 and the 526(?) interworked at Horsley Hill.

Move the X20 to Stand N at Park Lane its absolute chaos, there were two 20s, and an X20 all trying to get onto 1 stand yesterday (X20 had 8 mins or smth stand time), there was a 20 8 mins late, and one which was 1/2 mins early absolute chaos.

X1. Newcastle - Gateshead - washington - hougton le spring - hetton le hole - Easington lane - Easington village - peterlee - blackhall - castle Eden - hartlepool - seaton carew non stop to middlesbrough .
This service will operate every 10 minutes Newcastle to washington.
Then every 20 minutes newcastle to Peterlee.
Every 30 minutes to hartlepool.
Then on a trial basis every hour to Middlesbrough.
The service will operate as normal to Easington lane.
The service will replace service x35 hougton to hartlepool.
Service 20A will replace the link to doxford international.
The service will provide hartlepool a direct bus to middlesbrough.
The service will take around 2 hours 30.
From the x35 loss a new service could be
X56 Dalton park - A19 - ferryboat lane - nissan - Sulgrave - concord non stop to heworth - felling squre - old durham road - Gateshead - newcastle.
This service will provide fast connections.
The only change will be service x36 withdrawn.
20A. Arnison centre - durham non stop to East rainton - rainton bridge - hougton le spring - Doxford international - East herrington - barnes - sunderland - wheatsheaf - southwick - witherwack - red house - downhill - boldon bank - East boldon metro - cleadon village - harton nook - south shields.
This service will operate every 30 minutes with service 20 operating 4x a hour in between the 20a.
This service will operate up to Arnison centre to save connections and give passengers through fares.
The service will be non stop from Durham millburngate to East rainton.
The 20A will stop on north road for trips to Arnison centre.
The service will replace x35,x36.
The service will operate up to boldon bank turning right to east boldon.
Passengers from boldon to heworth can take the 9 to jarrow then change to the 27

Wow this X1 would be a large route -how we thought 8 years ago ???

Some slight jiggery pokery incoming
352-left as is
353- upped to every 30 mins and additonally serves Holystone Park
354-swapped with the 355 in Longbenton/South Gosforth area, and additionally serves Four Lane Ends Interchange, 354 removed between Rake Lane and North Shields (covered by the 353) and re-routed via N.T.G.H, Preston Grange Morrisons and Preston Road North to/from North Shields offering connections with 306/307/308/309/and 317
355- Holystone Park-Newcastle every 30 mins offering a more frequent service to/from Newcastle and offering connections with the 353, 355 also re-routed via Four Lane Ends Interchange and Benton Park Road

Some slight jiggery pokery incoming
352-left as is
353- upped to every 30 mins and additonally serves Holystone Park
354-swapped with the 355 in Longbenton/South Gosforth area, and additionally serves Four Lane Ends Interchange, 354 removed between Rake Lane and North Shields (covered by the 353) and re-routed via N.T.G.H, Preston Grange Morrisons and Preston Road North to/from North Shields offering connections with 306/307/308/309/and 317
355- Holystone Park-Newcastle every 30 mins offering a more frequent service to/from Newcastle and offering connections with the 353, 355 also re-routed via Four Lane Ends Interchange and Benton Park Road

Don't mind the idea of some of them, I'd do some slightly different and do the below instead though personally (obviously need to work with Nexus though) and like the idea of another service for Preston.

So you'd have a

305 (Yellow): Old route restored additionally serving Wiltshire Drive | Every 30 Minutes
317: Omit Holy Cross
335: Withdrawn, not replaced
342: Killingworth to Wallsend only
349 (Green): Newbiggin Hall - Kingston Park - Hazlerigg - Seaton Burn - Killingworth - Backworth - Northumberland Park - Murton - NT Hospital - Preston - North Shields | Hourly
350 (Pink): Newcastle - Gosforth - Longbenton - Killingworth - Backworth - Northumberland Park - Shiremoor - Whitley Bay | Hourly
351 (Purple): Newcastle - Gosforth - Longbenton - Benton Square - Benton Metro - New Housing Estate - Holystone - Shiremoor - Whitley Bay | Hourly
352: Withdrawn
353 (Orange): Current Route | Every 30 Minutes
354: Partially replaced by 350/351
355: Replaced Below
57 (Blue): Holystone Park (liked this extension) - Meadway - Benton - Longbenton - Newcastle - Gateshead - QE - Heworth - Wardley | Every 30 Minutes
W2: Withdrawn, not replaced

349/350 | Every 30 Minutes on combined section giving frequent Northumberland Park to Killingworth service for interchanging
350/351 | Every 30 Minutes on combined sections

Don't mind the idea of some of them, I'd do some slightly different and do the below instead though personally (obviously need to work with Nexus though) and like the idea of another service for Preston.



So you'd have a

305 (Yellow): Old route restored additionally serving Wiltshire Drive | Every 30 Minutes
317: Omit Holy Cross
335: Withdrawn, not replaced
342: Killingworth to Wallsend only
349 (Green): Newbiggin Hall - Kingston Park - Hazlerigg - Seaton Burn - Killingworth - Backworth - Northumberland Park - Murton - NT Hospital - Preston - North Shields | Hourly
350 (Pink): Newcastle - Gosforth - Longbenton - Killingworth - Backworth - Northumberland Park - Shiremoor - Whitley Bay | Hourly
351 (Purple): Newcastle - Gosforth - Longbenton - Benton Square - Benton Metro - New Housing Estate - Holystone - Shiremoor - Whitley Bay | Hourly
352: Withdrawn
353 (Orange): Current Route | Every 30 Minutes
354: Partially replaced by 350/351
355: Replaced Below
57 (Blue): Holystone Park (liked this extension) - Meadway - Benton - Longbenton - Newcastle - Gateshead - QE - Heworth - Wardley | Every 30 Minutes
W2: Withdrawn, not replaced

349/350 | Every 30 Minutes on combined section giving frequent Northumberland Park to Killingworth service for interchanging
350/351 | Every 30 Minutes on combined sections

You do have some really good ideas.

Ideally, Arriva's withdrawal in North Tyneside should've been the case of Nexus sitting down with GNE, Stagecoach and where applicable Arriva to try and work out a clean set of commercial (or subsidised where needed) local / secondary services. But no, same old duplication issues such as the 37 & 352 and 38 & 355 and 354 & X63.

[/b] You do have some really good ideas.[/b] 

Ideally, Arriva's withdrawal in North Tyneside should've been the case of Nexus sitting down with GNE, Stagecoach and where applicable Arriva to try and work out a clean set of commercial (or subsidised where needed) local / secondary services. But no, same old duplication issues such as the 37 & 352 and 38 & 355 and 354 & X63.

Was it the Wiltshire Drive bit that sold it to you?