(26 Nov 2014, 11:41 am)Dan Confirmation of proposed changes are as follows:
2 2A 2C ‘Silver Arrow’ Sunderland – Washington
This service will be extended to and from Vicarage Farm Estate in Silksworth via Hollycarrside, replacing service 42 and providing new cross-city connections, including providing the hospital connection to Silksworth. Service 2C will be renumbered 2.
20/20A ‘Prince Bishops’ Durham – Sunderland
We are proposing to extend this service to South Shields, in place of our current ‘Laser’ service 35/35A, improving cross-town connections.
29/29A/35/35A/35B/35C and new 36
These services will be revised to provide a new pattern of services and cross-city links. Service 35 will operate from Boldon ASDA via Castletown to Sunderland, replacing the current service 29, continuing from Sunderland via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and Low Moorsley on the existing 35 route. New service 36 will operate from Town End Farm and Hylton Castle to the city and then via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and on to Chester-le-Street, replacing service 71 and providing new direct links between Fence Houses and Sunderland. These services will provide a bus every 15 minutes between Town End Farm, Castletown, the city centre, the hospital and the Herringtons to Houghton-le-Spring.
Evening and Sunday services will operate as service 35A, starting at Heworth and running via Castletown, replacing the present service 29A. 35A will then serve the hospital and Silksworth, with one bus an hour running to Low Moorsley and the other to Houghton-le-Spring, with through fares and guaranteed connections to new short X35 services for South Hetton.
38 38C 238 Sunderland – Ryhope – Seaham – Houghton-le-Spring
One journey each hour on service 38 is extended to Houghton-le-Spring, maintaining direct connections between Silksworth and Houghton-le-Spring and creating a direct bus from Grasswell to Sunderland, as requested by our passengers. The main section of service 38 between Sunderland and Hollycarrside is unchanged.
42 ‘SimpliCity’ Silksworth – Sunderland
This service will be replaced by revised service 2 and 2A, providing better cross-city links through Sunderland and on to Washington.
56 ‘FAB 56’ Sunderland – Concord – Newcastle
To improve the reliability of this service, we are proposing to run buses every 12 minutes rather than every 10 minutes.
99 99A
Revised to operate between Seaburn and Castletown only. Links to the hospital from Town End Farm and Castletown will be provided by new services 35 and 36.
X36 ‘Fast Cats’ Sunderland - Newcastle
This service will be revised to operate half hourly between Sunderland and Downhill, with one bus an hour continuing to Gateshead and Newcastle Market Street. Passengers for Enterprise Park will be able to use service 8.
(26 Nov 2014, 11:41 am)Dan Confirmation of proposed changes are as follows:
2 2A 2C ‘Silver Arrow’ Sunderland – Washington
This service will be extended to and from Vicarage Farm Estate in Silksworth via Hollycarrside, replacing service 42 and providing new cross-city connections, including providing the hospital connection to Silksworth. Service 2C will be renumbered 2.
20/20A ‘Prince Bishops’ Durham – Sunderland
We are proposing to extend this service to South Shields, in place of our current ‘Laser’ service 35/35A, improving cross-town connections.
29/29A/35/35A/35B/35C and new 36
These services will be revised to provide a new pattern of services and cross-city links. Service 35 will operate from Boldon ASDA via Castletown to Sunderland, replacing the current service 29, continuing from Sunderland via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and Low Moorsley on the existing 35 route. New service 36 will operate from Town End Farm and Hylton Castle to the city and then via Durham Road and the hospital to Houghton-le-Spring and on to Chester-le-Street, replacing service 71 and providing new direct links between Fence Houses and Sunderland. These services will provide a bus every 15 minutes between Town End Farm, Castletown, the city centre, the hospital and the Herringtons to Houghton-le-Spring.
Evening and Sunday services will operate as service 35A, starting at Heworth and running via Castletown, replacing the present service 29A. 35A will then serve the hospital and Silksworth, with one bus an hour running to Low Moorsley and the other to Houghton-le-Spring, with through fares and guaranteed connections to new short X35 services for South Hetton.
38 38C 238 Sunderland – Ryhope – Seaham – Houghton-le-Spring
One journey each hour on service 38 is extended to Houghton-le-Spring, maintaining direct connections between Silksworth and Houghton-le-Spring and creating a direct bus from Grasswell to Sunderland, as requested by our passengers. The main section of service 38 between Sunderland and Hollycarrside is unchanged.
42 ‘SimpliCity’ Silksworth – Sunderland
This service will be replaced by revised service 2 and 2A, providing better cross-city links through Sunderland and on to Washington.
56 ‘FAB 56’ Sunderland – Concord – Newcastle
To improve the reliability of this service, we are proposing to run buses every 12 minutes rather than every 10 minutes.
99 99A
Revised to operate between Seaburn and Castletown only. Links to the hospital from Town End Farm and Castletown will be provided by new services 35 and 36.
X36 ‘Fast Cats’ Sunderland - Newcastle
This service will be revised to operate half hourly between Sunderland and Downhill, with one bus an hour continuing to Gateshead and Newcastle Market Street. Passengers for Enterprise Park will be able to use service 8.
(26 Nov 2014, 4:12 pm)Tom What are the new short X35 services to South Hetton btw?
(26 Nov 2014, 4:12 pm)Tom What are the new short X35 services to South Hetton btw?
(26 Nov 2014, 11:44 am)Michael Sorry but don't agree with the 56 change, means straight away, at least 2 branded buses will be dropped, whats the point in buying them?
Edit: it does however mean the 2 spare buses bought for the 56, can replace other decker's at Deptford.
(26 Nov 2014, 11:55 am)BJ10VUS I suppose one of the Gemini 2s could be used as a spare on the 309/310, however unlikely? Would make a certain someone very happy!
(26 Nov 2014, 11:55 am)park5354 Reducing frequency, but keeping same pvr. This means slightly more running time and recovery time at each end, resulting in less mileage lost, hence increased reliability.
The same was done to service 27. Reduced from 10 mins to 11 mins, meaning each trip was given an extra 10 mins. Passengers barely notice waiting an extra min, but do notice that most trips now are able to operate full route, especially in Newcastle.
(26 Nov 2014, 4:05 pm)Tom I really like those changes!
Thanks for the info Dan
(26 Nov 2014, 11:44 am)Michael Sorry but don't agree with the 56 change, means straight away, at least 2 branded buses will be dropped, whats the point in buying them?
Edit: it does however mean the 2 spare buses bought for the 56, can replace other decker's at Deptford.
(26 Nov 2014, 11:55 am)BJ10VUS I suppose one of the Gemini 2s could be used as a spare on the 309/310, however unlikely? Would make a certain someone very happy!
(26 Nov 2014, 11:55 am)park5354 Reducing frequency, but keeping same pvr. This means slightly more running time and recovery time at each end, resulting in less mileage lost, hence increased reliability.
The same was done to service 27. Reduced from 10 mins to 11 mins, meaning each trip was given an extra 10 mins. Passengers barely notice waiting an extra min, but do notice that most trips now are able to operate full route, especially in Newcastle.
(26 Nov 2014, 4:05 pm)Tom I really like those changes!
Thanks for the info Dan
(26 Nov 2014, 5:00 pm)Dan I think the PVR will only decrease by one vehicle - this vehicle will probably replace one of the oldest members of the fleet (a Volvo B10BLE or an Olympian).
I think you've hit the nail on the head...
If the PVR drops by one vehicle, this would allow one of the red Volvo B9s (presumably 6100) to transfer to another depot. Percy Main has struggled to cover a PVR of 16 with just one red spare, so perhaps could benefit from another.
Even when the PVR of both routes was 15, I think Deptford coped a lot better with just allocating Volvo B9s than Percy Main, who have allocated far more vehicles which aren't Volvo B9s.
I'd imagine that this would allow for a Volvo B10 in the fleet to be replaced. Perhaps one of Percy Main's Volvo B10s would be released to Chester-le-Street, allowing a Lime example to be binned? The alternative would be one of Percy Main's red double deckers transferring to Stanley to allow another Olympian to be binned.
I do think that this will differ slightly from the 27.
If it could be possible to remove two vehicles from the PVR by having a 12 minute frequency, then I'd imagine GNE would only remove one and do something similar to what you've suggested above.
Most welcome. Glad to have cleared a few things up.
It does seem to suggest that there will be no changes to service 238, to answer Drifter60's question from the other day.
(26 Nov 2014, 5:00 pm)Dan I think the PVR will only decrease by one vehicle - this vehicle will probably replace one of the oldest members of the fleet (a Volvo B10BLE or an Olympian).
I think you've hit the nail on the head...
If the PVR drops by one vehicle, this would allow one of the red Volvo B9s (presumably 6100) to transfer to another depot. Percy Main has struggled to cover a PVR of 16 with just one red spare, so perhaps could benefit from another.
Even when the PVR of both routes was 15, I think Deptford coped a lot better with just allocating Volvo B9s than Percy Main, who have allocated far more vehicles which aren't Volvo B9s.
I'd imagine that this would allow for a Volvo B10 in the fleet to be replaced. Perhaps one of Percy Main's Volvo B10s would be released to Chester-le-Street, allowing a Lime example to be binned? The alternative would be one of Percy Main's red double deckers transferring to Stanley to allow another Olympian to be binned.
I do think that this will differ slightly from the 27.
If it could be possible to remove two vehicles from the PVR by having a 12 minute frequency, then I'd imagine GNE would only remove one and do something similar to what you've suggested above.
Most welcome. Glad to have cleared a few things up.
It does seem to suggest that there will be no changes to service 238, to answer Drifter60's question from the other day.
(26 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm)Michael Do u think these changes will have an impact on what GNE orders this year?
Do u think the 20/20A could be part of this years investment?
(26 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm)Tom Does anyone have any info on the 38 - will the 38 be running every 20 mins/30 mins or will it be confusing as present, also what will the short X35's be?
(26 Nov 2014, 5:03 pm)Michael Do u think these changes will have an impact on what GNE orders this year?
Do u think the 20/20A could be part of this years investment?
(26 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm)Tom Does anyone have any info on the 38 - will the 38 be running every 20 mins/30 mins or will it be confusing as present, also what will the short X35's be?
(26 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm)Dan No, I don't think it will alter what Go North East orders as part of this financial year.
Providing the changes work for the best, I'd imagine that services 20/20A will see investment into double decked vehicles within the next financial year.
I'm guessing that residents of Sunderland prefer cross-city style services, allowing them to get from A to B (via the world) on one bus opposed to using two and getting there faster. Perhaps this is because of Stagecoach's dominance in the city, who set up services in this style.
The main objective of these changes has been to provide more cross-city style services, based on suggestions from customers in the past. I think service 29 can be treated as the 'guinea-pig'; despite suggestions otherwise on this forum prior to the changes, service 29 is pretty reliable and has been popular with passengers.
I don't think suggestions from customers prior to this consultation will be good enough evidence to serve as justification that the changes will provide more commercially successful services than at present though, so they'll be on a trial period of 6 months and will be reviewed after this period. Go-Ahead's financial year starts in the sixth month of the calendar year, so this 'trial period' (as I suggest) will conveniently fit in well with the start of the new financial year, when Go North East will start to conjure up plans for which vehicles it intends to order that year.
I think the timetable will stay the same as present - two 38s per hour and one 238.
After serving Hollycarrside; I think one 38 is planned to follow the same route as present, and the other is planned to go to Houghton-le-Spring (or nPower?) via a similar route to the present 35A and also serving Grasswell (appears to be somewhere in Newbottle) following suggestions prior to the consultation from customers.
(26 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm)Dan No, I don't think it will alter what Go North East orders as part of this financial year.
Providing the changes work for the best, I'd imagine that services 20/20A will see investment into double decked vehicles within the next financial year.
I'm guessing that residents of Sunderland prefer cross-city style services, allowing them to get from A to B (via the world) on one bus opposed to using two and getting there faster. Perhaps this is because of Stagecoach's dominance in the city, who set up services in this style.
The main objective of these changes has been to provide more cross-city style services, based on suggestions from customers in the past. I think service 29 can be treated as the 'guinea-pig'; despite suggestions otherwise on this forum prior to the changes, service 29 is pretty reliable and has been popular with passengers.
I don't think suggestions from customers prior to this consultation will be good enough evidence to serve as justification that the changes will provide more commercially successful services than at present though, so they'll be on a trial period of 6 months and will be reviewed after this period. Go-Ahead's financial year starts in the sixth month of the calendar year, so this 'trial period' (as I suggest) will conveniently fit in well with the start of the new financial year, when Go North East will start to conjure up plans for which vehicles it intends to order that year.
I think the timetable will stay the same as present - two 38s per hour and one 238.
After serving Hollycarrside; I think one 38 is planned to follow the same route as present, and the other is planned to go to Houghton-le-Spring (or nPower?) via a similar route to the present 35A and also serving Grasswell (appears to be somewhere in Newbottle) following suggestions prior to the consultation from customers.
Wonder if all the 35/35a boards will be run by deptford?, or will chester get 2 boards, the 71 wont last if the 35 change doesn't come off. Also i wouldn't be surprised if the 35 would follow the 4 route and miss out avanue vivian, and what may come of the dafs cls have?
(26 Nov 2014, 7:40 pm)nk55 Wonder if all the 35/35a boards will be run by deptford?, or will chester get 2 boards, the 71 wont last if the 35 change doesn't come off. Also i wouldn't be surprised if the 35 would follow the 4 route and miss out avanue vivian, and what may come of the dafs cls have?
(26 Nov 2014, 7:40 pm)nk55 Wonder if all the 35/35a boards will be run by deptford?, or will chester get 2 boards, the 71 wont last if the 35 change doesn't come off. Also i wouldn't be surprised if the 35 would follow the 4 route and miss out avanue vivian, and what may come of the dafs cls have?
I'm not convinced about the 20/20A changes, but that's solely on what I perceive the reliability will be like. There's far too much to that route for problems to occur.
The 42 being binned in order to extend the 2A/2C makes sense, but I'd have perhaps liked to see it extended a short distance to the Doxford Enterprise Park. Does anyone know what the PVR increase to Silksworth would be?
(26 Nov 2014, 7:54 pm)aureolin I'm not convinced about the 20/20A changes, but that's solely on what I perceive the reliability will be like. There's far too much to that route for problems to occur.
The 42 being binned in order to extend the 2A/2C makes sense, but I'd have perhaps liked to see it extended a short distance to the Doxford Enterprise Park. Does anyone know what the PVR increase to Silksworth would be?
(26 Nov 2014, 7:54 pm)aureolin I'm not convinced about the 20/20A changes, but that's solely on what I perceive the reliability will be like. There's far too much to that route for problems to occur.
The 42 being binned in order to extend the 2A/2C makes sense, but I'd have perhaps liked to see it extended a short distance to the Doxford Enterprise Park. Does anyone know what the PVR increase to Silksworth would be?
(26 Nov 2014, 7:55 pm)Michael I did a list earlier for PVR's... or more like what i think they'll be, if changes happen:
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...p?tid=1030&page=37
I agree with all the changes, for once, the 35/36 one's sound the best.
I think the 20/20A change will work... if it has a better timetable, longer to do runs etc
(26 Nov 2014, 7:55 pm)Michael I did a list earlier for PVR's... or more like what i think they'll be, if changes happen:
http://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showth...p?tid=1030&page=37
I agree with all the changes, for once, the 35/36 one's sound the best.
I think the 20/20A change will work... if it has a better timetable, longer to do runs etc
(26 Nov 2014, 8:00 pm)aureolin Cheers Michael. I'd hope that 4 Mercs are sourced.
Re: 20/20A. I'm hoping that it will have a decent amount of layover time at each end, and perhaps somewhere in the middle. They done something similar a few years ago with the 50, where it had a good 5-10 mins layover.
On a side note, maybe a re-brand could be on the cards for the Prince Bishops? Hardly seems worth calling it after Durham, when the majority of the route is going to be in Tyne and Wear.
(26 Nov 2014, 8:00 pm)aureolin Cheers Michael. I'd hope that 4 Mercs are sourced.
Re: 20/20A. I'm hoping that it will have a decent amount of layover time at each end, and perhaps somewhere in the middle. They done something similar a few years ago with the 50, where it had a good 5-10 mins layover.
On a side note, maybe a re-brand could be on the cards for the Prince Bishops? Hardly seems worth calling it after Durham, when the majority of the route is going to be in Tyne and Wear.
(26 Nov 2014, 8:07 pm)Michael I hope not, Prince Bishops is one of my favorite brands.
Done a possible timetable for the 20:
20 – Durham-South Shields
Durham Bus Station: 00 10 20 30 40 50
Belmont: 11 21 31 41 51
Houghton-le-Spring: 35 45 55 05 15 25
East Herrington: 44 54 04 14 24 34
Sunderland Interchange arr: 57 07 17 27 37 47
Sunderland Interchange dep: 00 10 20 30 40 50
Fullwell The Grange: 12 22 32 42 52
Cleadon Pond: 17 27 37 47 57 07
Harton Nook: 21 31 41 51 01 11
Westoe: 26 36 46 56 06 16
South Shields, Market: 31 41 51 01 11 21
South Shields, Market: 00 10 20 30 40 50
Westoe: 06 16 26 36 46 56
Harton Nook: 11 21 31 41 51 01
Cleadon Pond: 16 26 36 46 56 06
Fullwell Grange: 21 31 41 51 01 11
Sunderland Interchange arr: 32 42 52 02 12 22
Sunderland Interchange dep: 35 45 55 05 15 25
East Herrington: 48 58 08 18 28 38
Houghton-le-Spring: 58 08 18 28 38 48
Belmont: 21 31 41 51 01 11
Durham Bus Station: 32 42 52 02 12
(26 Nov 2014, 8:11 pm)Dan I wouldn't imagine that the Prince Bishops livery would change: if the changes are being made with investment in mind for the near future, then a complete livery re-design wouldn't be rational.
(26 Nov 2014, 8:11 pm)Dan I wouldn't imagine that the Prince Bishops livery would change: if the changes are being made with investment in mind for the near future, then a complete livery re-design wouldn't be rational.
