(19 Jul 2025, 6:10 pm)Mike_98 wrote So will Belmont be transferring their Euro 6 Pulsars to Stockton for the X12 then?

Yes 1419, 1481/2/3 coming with the 4 X12 boards while 1381/2 go to Darlington with two X66s.

I am told Belmont are holding onto one of the workings and one of the vehicles.

(20 Jul 2025, 7:25 am)Superman wrote I am told Belmont are holding onto one of the workings and one of the vehicles.

Which one?

Will Belmont be getting anything in return?

(20 Jul 2025, 10:33 am)alexanderdennis0312933 wrote Will Belmont be getting anything in return?

The MAX Pulsars have moved to Stockton in line with the X12 moving to be 100% operated by Stockton (bar one or two early morning trips and for the next week or so, one Durham short board). Belmont have as a result a PVR reduction - while Stockton’s increases by 2 as does Darlington’s (Stockton lose their two X66 boards so only 2 extra boards running out of the depot).

(20 Jul 2025, 11:16 am)Kuyoyo wrote The MAX Pulsars have moved to Stockton in line with the X12 moving to be 100% operated by Stockton (bar one or two early morning trips and for the next week or so, one Durham short board). Belmont have as a result a PVR reduction - while Stockton’s increases by 2 as does Darlington’s (Stockton lose their two X66 boards so only 2 extra boards running out of the depot).

1381 and 1382 both transferred to Darlington depot around 8:45 this morning, passed me as I was on my way to work

(20 Jul 2025, 11:16 am)Kuyoyo wrote The MAX Pulsars have moved to Stockton in line with the X12 moving to be 100% operated by Stockton (bar one or two early morning trips and for the next week or so, one Durham short board). Belmont have as a result a PVR reduction - while Stockton’s increases by 2 as does Darlington’s (Stockton lose their two X66 boards so only 2 extra boards running out of the depot).

As mentioned, one of the X12 boards is temporarily staying at Belmont. One of the MAX Pulsars will stay at Durham, but not sure which one.

This batch of Pulsars on the X12 have been absolute workhorses but I was on one last week and it was really beginning to sound a bit rough. I wonder if they're going to be in line for any replacements in the not too distant future.

One would imagine they be looking at a huge future replacement for all the pulsars in general. Unless they are going to pick and grab from depots elsewhere. Personally, I would go for E200 MMC's for the X12 as they are great at getting up to speed and would suit the long distance quite well. I would imagine Evoras will be also got for Stockton's 5 and 5A Services because of the hill climbing sections. But who knows, time will tell.

(20 Jul 2025, 6:59 pm)Mike_98 wrote One would imagine they be looking at a huge future replacement for all the pulsars in general. Unless they are going to pick and grab from depots elsewhere. Personally, I would go for E200 MMC's for the X12 as they are great at getting up to speed and would suit the long distance quite well. I would imagine Evoras will be also got for Stockton's 5 and 5A Services because of the hill climbing sections. But who knows, time will tell.

I'd be surprised to see E200 MMCs bought for the X12, realistically if they're buying B8s for some routes I imagine it'll be more cost effective to increase that order - and that's leaving aside that the B8 is rumoured to be cheaper than an E200. The X12 is a pretty demanding route in its own right anyway, and while some E200 MMCs may be quick (many aren't) - they won't be as quick or as durable as a B8 on long distance work. 

Given the amount of B8s purchased by Arriva across the country recently, I'd be surprised if they suddenly had a change of heart in what they were buying when it came to diesel vehicles - especially since the general feedback on the Volvo seems extremely positive.

Personally can't see new vehicles for the X12, has it ever had new vehicles?

I'm certainly struggling to think of any as it's always been cast offs from other routes, as far as I can remember; Omnicities, Scania L113's, Pulsars, DB300 etc.

(20 Jul 2025, 7:42 pm)Storx wrote Personally can't see new vehicles for the X12, has it ever had new vehicles?

I'm certainly struggling to think of any as it's always been cast offs from other routes, as far as I can remember; Omnicities, Scania L113's, Pulsars, DB300 etc.

The DB300s were allocated to the route from new, no? There are certainly multiple photographs of the DB300s on the X1/2 within 2012, when they were new. Similar with the Omnicities, there are multiple pictures of them on there in 2005/6.

If you are making the point that it is a route which rarely/if ever has new vehicles bought for it specifically though, you could say the same for many of the recent purchases. The 72-plate E400 MMCs are mainly allocated to the X14/5/8, of which the X18 is the only route of the three to have had vehicles bought specifically for it (7529-33 8 years earlier). Similar with the 57/A and 2701-5.

Ultimately though, if not new vehicles for the X12, then what? The Pulsars are rapidly approaching end of life, and there's a lack of suitable alternative in the NE fleet. Let's not forget that when the L113s operated the route, there was an abundance of pretty much brand new Pulsars available to replace them.

(20 Jul 2025, 8:05 pm)PH - BQA wrote The DB300s were allocated to the route from new, no? There are certainly multiple photographs of the DB300s on the X1/2 within 2012, when they were new. Similar with the Omnicities, there are multiple pictures of them on there in 2005/6.

If you are making the point that it is a route which rarely/if ever has new vehicles bought for it specifically though, you could say the same for many of the recent purchases. The 72-plate E400 MMCs are mainly allocated to the X14/5/8, of which the X18 is the only route of the three to have had vehicles bought specifically for it (7529-33 8 years earlier). Similar with the 57/A and 2701-5.

Ultimately though, if not new vehicles for the X12, then what? The Pulsars are rapidly approaching end of life, and there's a lack of suitable alternative in the NE fleet. Let's not forget that when the L113s operated the route, there was an abundance of pretty much brand new Pulsars available to replace them.

Ex Blyth the DB300's. Here's a photo of https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/6892381637/ on the 308 when it was pretty much brand new. 

Can't confirm 100% but want to say they went out when the hybrids turned up? But it might have been earlier possibly 1501-6 either - anyone confirm this?

The Omnicities I'm sure we're the 43 aswell, but can't confirm 100% that one either but that was part of Operation Overdrive. 

Btw  don't think it'll get anything personally, there's enough 12/13 plates around and I have a feeling they'll do it until it's death in 2028 with the 7 or 22/23/24 getting the investment instead. There's also possibly Blyth's Pulsars aswell depending on what the electrics replace up here as I can't see the newer E400's going anywhere.

(20 Jul 2025, 8:32 pm)Storx wrote Ex Blyth the DB300's. Here's a photo of https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/6892381637/ on the 308 when it was pretty much brand new. 

The Omnicities I'm sure we're the 43 aswell, but can't confirm 100% that one either but that was part of Operation Overdrive. 

Btw  don't think it'll get anything personally, there's enough 12/13 plates around and I have a feeling they'll do it until it's death in 2028 with the 7 or 22/23/24 getting the investment instead. There's also possibly Blyth's Pulsars aswell depending on what the electrics replace up here as I can't see the newer E400's going anywhere.

7626/7 were new to Durham and regularly appeared on the X1/2 from new, and were refurbished for the transition to X12. 

So you're saying the Omnicities were allocated to the 43 and X1/2 from new... So then the route has had new vehicles then hasn't it?  

Right, but then in 2028 there'll need to be replacements... That's only 3 years away, and the youngest Pulsars in the fleet will be 15 by then. The Blyth Pulsars are only a few months younger than the youngest X12 buses at present.

(20 Jul 2025, 8:44 pm)PH - BQA wrote 7626/7 were new to Durham and regularly appeared on the X1/2 from new, and were refurbished for the transition to X12. 

So you're saying the Omnicities were allocated to the 43 and X1/2 from new... So then the route has had new vehicles then hasn't it?  

Right, but then in 2028 there'll need to be replacements... That's only 3 years away, and the youngest Pulsars in the fleet will be 15 by then. The Blyth Pulsars are only a few months younger than the youngest X12 buses at present.

Must admit, always thought they were all Blyth. Hold my hands up on those 2.

The Omnicities were the 43 and 49 if I'm right? Need confirmation on that though, don't believe they were the X1/X2.

Depends if they win the contract in 2028 though, who knows by then though - no doubt be some new vehicles on the market and some solution for the issue of electric buses on longer routes by then.

(20 Jul 2025, 9:11 pm)Storx wrote The Omnicities were the 43 and 49 if I'm right? Need confirmation on that though, don't believe they were the X1/X2.

Some of the earliest pictures of the Omnicities are on the X1, such as this one of 4650 in August 2005. They also received route branding by 2006. 

[Arriva North East] 4657 (NK05 GXM) in Durham on service X1 - John Carter by The Transport Network, on Flickr

(20 Jul 2025, 9:22 pm)PH - BQA wrote Some of the earliest pictures of the Omnicities are on the X1, such as this one of 4650 in August 2005. They also received route branding by 2006. 

[Arriva North East] 4657 (NK05 GXM) in Durham on service X1 - John Carter by The Transport Network, on Flickr

Yeah that's fair, I might be wrong on that one. They've moved around a lot over the years - kind of lost track on what they were on. Always thought they were local routes, they were bought for. Sadly the operation overdrive stuff has all but gone from the internet, anyone confirm - I'm curious now?

(20 Jul 2025, 9:51 pm)Storx wrote Yeah that's fair, I might be wrong on that one. They've moved around a lot over the years - kind of lost track on what they were on. Always thought they were local routes, they were bought for. Sadly the operation overdrive stuff has all but gone from the internet, anyone confirm - I'm curious now?

From further searches they seem to have been moved off, at least in part, by around 2007-8 - with the L113s and Prestiges appearing. 

The Overdrive stuff seemed to die off pretty quickly from memory - didn’t 7445/6 almost immediately move away to Jesmond?

(20 Jul 2025, 8:44 pm)PH - BQA wrote 7626/7 were new to Durham and regularly appeared on the X1/2 from new, and were refurbished for the transition to X12. 

So you're saying the Omnicities were allocated to the 43 and X1/2 from new... So then the route has had new vehicles then hasn't it?  

Right, but then in 2028 there'll need to be replacements... That's only 3 years away, and the youngest Pulsars in the fleet will be 15 by then. The Blyth Pulsars are only a few months younger than the youngest X12 buses at present.

7626/27 were new to Belmont for service 49A between Durham & Crook via Brandon but moved onto the X1/X2 (later renumbered X12) by autumn 2012 along with 7618/19 transferring from Blyth, 7609/10/20 would also later move to Belmont.

(20 Jul 2025, 9:58 pm)PH - BQA wrote From further searches they seem to have been moved off, at least in part, by around 2007-8 - with the L113s and Prestiges appearing. 

The Overdrive stuff seemed to die off pretty quickly from memory - didn’t 7445/6 almost immediately move away to Jesmond?

Operation Overdrive died pretty quickly, for whatever reason, they didn't seem to want deckers on service work at Durham depot at the time, so 7445/6 instead were diverted to Darlington depot for their 723 workings to Durham, the elderly school deckers didn't take long to reappear on services in the area (albeit often when on loan to Peterlee depot) then as is typical, stuff started transferring elsewhere.

(20 Jul 2025, 9:58 pm)PH - BQA wrote From further searches they seem to have been moved off, at least in part, by around 2007-8 - with the L113s and Prestiges appearing. 

The Overdrive stuff seemed to die off pretty quickly from memory - didn’t 7445/6 almost immediately move away to Jesmond?

Yeah I believe so, they were definitely there around 2008/9 as remember seeing them on the 306.

Definitely died off though, the MPD's were the same and seemed to be everywhere aswell. I know some of the MPD's ended up at Blyth - 1765, I'm sure was one of them. Completely lost track of those aswell.

---

(20 Jul 2025, 10:26 pm)Jimmi wrote 7626/27 were new to Belmont for service 49A between Durham & Crook via Brandon but moved onto the X1/X2 (later renumbered X12) by autumn 2012 along with 7618/19 transferring from Blyth, 7609/10/20 would also later move to Belmont.

Thanks for confirming, didn't realise they were Durham based, learnt something new today.

All this talk about what happens here, what happens there and suggestions/ ideas about what Arriva should purchase. Bottom line is simple? It ain't gonna happen! The North East, as far as Arriva are concerned has had its investment in the new EvoRas at Dormanstown and that was only because they'd had that many complaints about the X4.

Stockton, having missed out on the funding for electric vehicles due to some dumb decision from Arriva (mis) management will have soldier on with its fleet of VDL Pulsars many of which, particularly when allocated to the 5/5a boards, are not fit for purpose, frankly an embarrassment. Little wonder there is so much mileage lost and so many people left standing at the roadside.

Personally I would like,prefer,whichever, Arriva to throw the towel in and let Stagecoach take over. The two companies are worlds apart.

(08 Aug 2025, 2:31 pm)Robisdave54 wrote All this talk about what happens here, what happens there and suggestions/ ideas about what Arriva should purchase. Bottom line is simple? It ain't gonna happen! The North East, as far as Arriva are concerned has had its investment in the new EvoRas at Dormanstown and that was only because they'd had that many complaints about the X4.

Stockton, having missed out on the funding for electric vehicles due to some dumb decision from Arriva (mis) management will have soldier on with its fleet of VDL Pulsars many of which, particularly when allocated to the 5/5a boards, are not fit for purpose, frankly an embarrassment. Little wonder there is so much mileage lost and so many people left standing at the roadside.

Personally I would like,prefer,whichever, Arriva to throw the towel in and let Stagecoach take over. The two companies are worlds apart.

Not sure if you knew but the Evora's were never bought for Redcar. They were part of the Merseyside order. 

They just seen the issues with the X4 and sent the Streetlite's down to Merseyside in their place with the Evora's diverted to the North East instead. 

It's hard to say either way yet though as they were recently just took over imo. DB definitely had zero interest in any investment though, without a doubt.

(08 Aug 2025, 6:14 pm)Storx wrote Not sure if you knew but the Evora's were never bought for Redcar. They were part of the Merseyside order. 

They just seen the issues with the X4 and sent the Streetlite's down to Merseyside in their place with the Evora's diverted to the North East instead. 

It's hard to say either way yet though as they were recently just took over imo. DB definitely had zero interest in any investment though, without a doubt.

I had an idea that was what happened. Not really the investment as suggested by Dormanstown management  This what happens though and sometimes a sensible use of resources aka moving the ADL Enviro 400's 7578-81 to work the X93/94 boards. A shame that Dormanstown can't keep them on the road. Half the Volvo VTL9' s, again brought in for the X93/94 are off, replaced by elderly VDL Pulsars with the attendant,and usual problems.

(08 Aug 2025, 6:41 pm)Robisdave54 wrote I had an idea that was what happened. Not really the investment as suggested by Dormanstown management  This what happens though and sometimes a sensible use of resources aka moving the ADL Enviro 400's 7578-81 to work the X93/94 boards. A shame that Dormanstown can't keep them on the road. Half the Volvo VTL9' s, again brought in for the X93/94 are off, replaced by elderly VDL Pulsars with the attendant,and usual problems.

Yeah it'll be interesting to see what the long plans for the B9TL's as I know they haven't been mentioned much recently but they seem to be as awful as ever. Surely someone has noticed that they need to be moved off there and ideally out the North East altogether.

In a way though I wouldn't be surprised if the investment is up at Ashington though with more of the 72 Plates sent down. There's serious issues up here in recent times with more work being took on and the same aging fleet and the X21/X22 is a busy route to be running around with Enviro's which are shot to bits and single deckers which are just inappropiate full stop on some boards.

DB left it in a right old mess though.

Amazing to learn, from an Arriva driver that Stockton is currently some 20 drivers short and management have a 'sack happy' policy meaning that many drivers simply unsticks and go work for Stagecoach.

And what is this emergency rota idea going to solve? Making the drivers that are left work longer ain't gonna work!!

(09 Aug 2025, 4:46 pm)Robisdave54 wrote Amazing to learn, from an Arriva driver that Stockton is currently some 20 drivers short and management have a 'sack happy' policy meaning that many drivers simply unsticks and go work for Stagecoach.

And what is this emergency rota idea going to solve? Making the drivers that are left work longer ain't gonna work!!

You have a very warped perception of business practices if you believe that Arriva are happily sacking drivers without just cause, especially if they are already short. The only reason they will be getting rid of drivers is if they need to do so, and at that point you'd need to question if you'd want those people driving your bus in any case? 

In my experience (in other industries), it is very common for remaining employees to not know the full story of why someone has been dismissed. This leads them to think the dismissed individual was unfairly treat, where in reality they likely left the company with no other option but to sack them. Obviously the company can't always go into that (though there may sometimes be reminders sent out for best practice to give you an idea), and the dismissed employee is always going to miss out the key detail of why they're gone - don't forget that bus drivers are a heavily unionised workforce, so the case will need to be watertight from the employer.

Yes I was probably a little OTT with my comments there. It is though easy to jump to conclusions without knowing the full facts. So many people at guilty of such. There does though seem to be a problem in both recruiting and then retaining staff as we have almost daily now services missing supposedly due to staff shortages.Perhaps its a case that new employees having gone through training, mentoring etc then find themselves 'on the road' having to deal with the rigiors of being a modern day bus driver can't cope and walk away.

1555 and 1556 have both been on loans to Darlington which could be down to Darlingtons vehicle shortage, tho 1555 was parked up with a red cover over the steering wheel