(07 Jun 2016, 1:14 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I've scrolled through the transcript, but I'd recommend watching Mike Ashley's appearance at commons committee from today.
I'll try and find a link when I get home.
I heard snippets on the radio over the course of the day.
The bit I heard about the bag checks was seemingly the focus of attention earlier today.
(07 Jun 2016, 3:52 pm)NK53 TKT wrote [ -> ]Some reasons include:
The EU is expensive
The EU is an anti-democratic bureaucracy
The EU wants to accept five new nations which it turn means more migrants will come and 100 million more people have the right to free movement
The EU currency is failing (this doesn't affect us)
The EU is very harsh on fishers making other countries have priorities over our waters (fish is also my favourite food)
There are more reasons
Interesting.
I am out too, but not for all of those reasons (with a few others instead).
(07 Jun 2016, 4:05 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Interesting.
I am out too, but not for all of those reasons (with a few others instead).
You are clearly sensible, in my opinion
I'm also out. There's positive and negatives to both sides, but for me leaving just edges it.
Cameron vs Farage on ITV now, if anyone is interested.
(07 Jun 2016, 8:02 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Cameron vs Farage on ITV now, if anyone is interested.
Farage knows what he is talking a out like
(07 Jun 2016, 8:23 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Farage knows what he is talking a out like
Really? I thought he was coming across like a raging racist.
Edit: He keeps making reference to 'unelected' EU commissioners. Does he not realise that it works on the same principal as our Parliament, where that we elect a series of MPs - not the PM, Chancellor and so on...
(07 Jun 2016, 8:24 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Really? I thought he was coming across like a raging racist.
Edit: He keeps making reference to 'unelected' EU commissioners. Does he not realise that it works on the same principal as our Parliament, where that we elect a series of MPs - not the PM, Chancellor and so on...
Because he has own opinion about immigration?
Oh wait.. I forgot its 2016 and others can't have their own opinion on subjects like immigration.
So do you not agree that we have too many people coming in to the country and most of them are taking advantage of the benefits system etc.. just like most of the people who live here to...
Just to note i'm not a racist...
David shot himself on the foot already.. said if we leave, the wages will go down.. but didn't he set them....
-----
David also said he would get it down but he hasn't.. Country is getting packed.
(07 Jun 2016, 8:24 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Really? I thought he was coming across like a raging racist.
Edit: He keeps making reference to 'unelected' EU commissioners. Does he not realise that it works on the same principal as our Parliament, where that we elect a series of MPs - not the PM, Chancellor and so on...
The difference being that if the PM is creating unpopular policies, he/she can still be voted out by their constituents or ousted by their MP's. Maybe even encouraged to leave by their colleagues. There are many examples of that happening over the last however many years.
Party members can have a vote to decide the leader of the party and potential PM.
We may even vote for a party based on the principles of the current leader.
I can't recall any of this ever happening with the un-elected commisioners in Brussels.
Edit: Just found this:
http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/presi...1czanRwbqA Had no idea we could vote for the EU President in 2014.
(07 Jun 2016, 8:35 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Because he has own opinion about immigration?
Oh wait.. I forgot its 2016 and others can't have their own opinion on subjects like immigration.
So do you not agree that we have too many people coming in to the country and most of them are taking advantage of the benefits system etc.. just like most of the people who live here to...
Just to note i'm not a racist...
David shot himself on the foot already.. said if we leave, the wages will go down.. but didn't he set them....
-----
David also said he would get it down but he hasn't.. Country is getting packed.
What defines 'immigration'? Invisible borders in the majority of cases, drawn up by people going to war over land. Sad really, as nationality doesn't make me a different breed of human being to any other, no matter where they're from.
Where are your statistics on immigrants and taking advantage of the benefit system? I mean damn
this immigrant, and
this one, and even
this one. They must be terrible people, coming over to the UK and making us a better kingdom. In all seriousness though, it'll be the same immigrants 'taking advantage' of our benefits system, as it is 'benefit cheats' that are creating austerity -
another common myth.
Farage, and the rest of his clan, live on playing on insecurities of ordinary people. Bringing out a feeling of pride in being British in people and the sense of being a superior race, and then making them look for a blame to the country's problems. Unemployment may be high in one area, so they'll sharply be nudged at Europeans coming over to the UK, and taking up paid employment. Of course, no mention to 1.2m British people living elsewhere in the EU.
Of course you're allowed an opinion in 2016, and of course plenty of debate.
Did i say all of them of them come to take advantage?, no.
Infact its good they come to work and bring loads to the UK.
When others move to a diffrent country they can't take advantage of the systems in that country...
You can't move to Australia without money and a job..so why can't it be like that here...
Its also amazing that we can't send criminals back to their own countries because the EU courts block it... Just like the 50 mentioned in tonights debate.
(07 Jun 2016, 8:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]The difference being that if the PM is creating unpopular policies, he/she can still be voted out by their constituents or ousted by their MP's. Maybe even encouraged to leave by their colleagues. There are many examples of that happening over the last however many years.
Party members can have a vote to decide the leader of the party and potential PM.
We may even vote for a party based on the principles of the current leader.
I can't recall any of this ever happening with the un-elected commisioners in Brussels.
Edit: Just found this: http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/presi...1czanRwbqA Had no idea we could vote for the EU President in 2014.
Same as Parliament. A motion of no confidence can be put, but what's the likelihood of it being successful, with the first past the post system? Only time I recall it happening was Callaghan, and that was lost by one vote, despite it being a minority government at the time.
Party members can vote for a leader, but who elects the members of a political party? You don't - you make a choice to join, as you do with a trade union, and only then do you get an opportunity to elect the leadership.
Adrian i take it you are voting to stay IN?
(07 Jun 2016, 9:13 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Adrian i take it you are voting to stay IN?
I was neutral on it to be honest, and my trade union's policy is neutral too. But I'm a member of the Labour Party, so have bought in to their remain campaign.
I do believe that were better actively campaigning for change in something, rather than being out of it and still pointing the finger of blame.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:22 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I was neutral on it to be honest, and my trade union's policy is neutral too. But I'm a member of the Labour Party, so have bought in to their remain campaign.
I do believe that were better actively campaigning for change in something, rather than being out of it and still pointing the finger of blame.
I'm Labour to but I'm yet to decide, reason why... both had good answers throughout the debate...
There's another one on Thursday, i think ITV said it was with 6 people this time.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:07 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Same as Parliament. A motion of no confidence can be put, but what's the likelihood of it being successful, with the first past the post system? Only time I recall it happening was Callaghan, and that was lost by one vote, despite it being a minority government at the time.
Party members can vote for a leader, but who elects the members of a political party? You don't - you make a choice to join, as you do with a trade union, and only then do you get an opportunity to elect the leadership.
It's not the same though.
The link I shared above (from the EU Parliament) stated that one of the biggest chritiscism is that the commisioners are unelected. Until 2014 and there are more than enough criticisms about that 'election'.
With regard to becoming an MP. You get your 10 nominations and sorted. It is up to the public to then vote the candidate in to Parliament.
Party members and members of the public are involved at every stage of an MP being elected.
I have copied this for clarity
The European Council votes by qualified majority for a nominee for the post of President, taking account of the latest European election. This proposal is then put before Parliament which must approve or veto the appointment. If an absolute majority of MEPs support the nominee, he/she is elected. The President then, together with the Council, puts forward his team to the Parliament to be scrutinised. The Parliament normally insists that each one of them appear before the parliamentary committee that corresponds to their prospective portfolio for a public hearing. The Parliament then votes on the Commission as a whole and, if approved, the European Council, acting by a qualified majority, appoints the President and his team to office
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexU...045:EN:PDF
(07 Jun 2016, 9:26 pm)Andreos1. wrote [ -> ]Party members and members of the public are involved at every stage of an MP being elected.
Will have a look at the link when I'm on a computer. It won't play ball on my phone.
I don't disagree on the process of electing an MP, but it's a political party that decides who is taking up all the top jobs. We don't pick and choose, and have no influence over that. Perhaps Scotland is a better example, where they have what.... 1 Tory MP, but are controlled by a central Tory Government.
What about the North East Combined Authority as another example. Is anyone on that elected to serve as a member of NECA?
I don't think the EU commission is democratic, but the point I'm making is that it's not always rosey in our garden either. The best way to change something is by being part of it.
Regarding the ITV debate, I find it unfair the Leave campaign was represented by Farage, rather than anyone affiliated with the official Vote Leave campaign. He will always come across as a boob.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:53 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Regarding the ITV debate, I find it unfair the Leave campaign was represented by Farage, rather than anyone affiliated with the official Vote Leave campaign. He will always come across as a boob.
I agree, but whilst Cameron would always be reluctant appearing against Farage, I think one of his own party would be a non starter.
Mind I don't like this format either. It should be a real head to head.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:51 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Will have a look at the link when I'm on a computer. It won't play ball on my phone.
I don't disagree on the process of electing an MP, but it's a political party that decides who is taking up all the top jobs. We don't pick and choose, and have no influence over that. Perhaps Scotland is a better example, where they have what.... 1 Tory MP, but are controlled by a central Tory Government.
What about the North East Combined Authority as another example. Is anyone on that elected to serve as a member of NECA?
I don't think the EU commission is democratic, but the point I'm making is that it's not always rosey in our garden either. The best way to change something is by being part of it.
For some reason the link (The Lisbon Treaty) isn't working. Copy and paste it in to your address bar and it should be fine.
I take your point about it not being perfect in the UK, but I prefer the system we have to the one forced on us by Brussels.
You mentioned Callaghan, but I think the ousting of Thatcher is an interesting one. Granted EU Presidents can only stay in power for 5 years, but I found a line in the PDF that states a President can only be deselected if guilty of misconduct. There is no mention of any of the issues the tories had in 89 or 90, when they eventually listened to the party members and public opinion. Now Junker could be the most un-popular president in EU history etc etc., and unless he is guilty of misconduct, there isn't a thing anyone can do to remove him from power according to the clauses.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]It's not the same though.
The link I shared above (from the EU Parliament) stated that one of the biggest chritiscism is that the commisioners are unelected. Until 2014 and there are more than enough criticisms about that 'election'.
With regard to becoming an MP. You get your 10 nominations and sorted. It is up to the public to then vote the candidate in to Parliament.
Party members and members of the public are involved at every stage of an MP being elected.
I have copied this for clarity
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexU...045:EN:PDF
I agree, the EU is undemocratic and there are loads of 'elite' members of parliament
We don't vote for our MEP
(08 Jun 2016, 6:12 am)NK53 TKT wrote [ -> ]We don't vote for our MEP
I'm afraid you're wrong there. We do vote for MEP's and always have done. In 2014, three members were returned for the North East Region: two Labour candidates and one UKIP representative respectively. Europeans elections are determined by PR (Proportional Representation) which is, arguably, a more democratic way of electing our representatives than the FTFP (First Past the Post) currently used to elect our representatives both Nationally and Locally.
(07 Jun 2016, 9:59 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I agree, but whilst Cameron would always be reluctant appearing against Farage, I think one of his own party would be a non starter.
Mind I don't like this format either. It should be a real head to head.
I thought last night's format was useful for conveying each person's message to the audience, but made for poor TV.
Julie Etchingham didn't seem a very authoritative host, so I think a head to head would have just descended into chaos. Dimbleby would have made a good host.
It just took me 3 attempts to type 'Dimbleby' as my phone kept correcting it to 'fumble recovery'!!
I've not got a clue how to vote in the Referendum to be honest, both sides just seem to be shouting at each other without giving any real facts.
Part of me wants to vote 'Leave' for change more than anything, however part of me is scared that if we leave, the economy will nosedive.
Both sides seem to be contradicting each other when it comes to the NHS as well, and as this is something that is very important to me, does anyone have any facts they could link?
(08 Jun 2016, 7:58 am)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]I'm afraid you're wrong there. We do vote for MEP's and always have done. In 2014, three members were returned for the North East Region: two Labour candidates and one UKIP representative respectively. Europeans elections are determined by PR (Proportional Representation) which is, arguably, a more democratic way of electing our representatives than the FTFP (First Past the Post) currently used to elect our representatives both Nationally and Locally.
Oh, I didn't know that. Nobody voted for Mr Juncker or Mrs Murkel though
(08 Jun 2016, 3:41 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've not got a clue how to vote in the Referendum to be honest, both sides just seem to be shouting at each other without giving any real facts.
Part of me wants to vote 'Leave' for change more than anything, however part of me is scared that if we leave, the economy will nosedive.
Both sides seem to be contradicting each other when it comes to the NHS as well, and as this is something that is very important to me, does anyone have any facts they could link?
http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referendum
If you vote on instinct, vote leave
(08 Jun 2016, 4:05 pm)NK53 TKT wrote [ -> ]Oh, I didn't know that. Nobody voted for Mr Juncker or Mrs Murkel though
The people of Germany certainly voted for Angela Merkel as she is their elected figurehead much like David Cameron is here in the UK. Merkel has nothing to do with the European Parliament.
As Andreos posted a few posts back, in 2014, Jean-Claude Junker was elected to serve as President of the European Commission although this was the first time an election had been held for the position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_P...tion,_2014
(08 Jun 2016, 4:24 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]The people of Germany certainly voted for Angela Merkel as she is their elected figurehead much like David Cameron is here in the UK. Merkel has nothing to do with the European Parliament.
As Andreos posted a few posts back, in 2014, Jean-Claude Junker was elected to serve as President of the European Commission although this was the first time an election had been held for the position.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_P...tion,_2014
It must be pointed out that us mere mortals weren't involved in electing Junker.
(08 Jun 2016, 4:14 pm)NK53 TKT wrote [ -> ]http://www.theweek.co.uk/eu-referendum
If you vote on instinct, vote leave
Ta, I'll check them out later on.
I think majority of my friends are voting 'In', and give me 'racist' comments on a daily basis as I show some support for leaving.
(08 Jun 2016, 3:41 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I've not got a clue how to vote in the Referendum to be honest, both sides just seem to be shouting at each other without giving any real facts.
Part of me wants to vote 'Leave' for change more than anything, however part of me is scared that if we leave, the economy will nosedive.
Both sides seem to be contradicting each other when it comes to the NHS as well, and as this is something that is very important to me, does anyone have any facts they could link?
The brexit NHS references are around TTIP. I'd suggest reading up on TTIP, but the
NHS is likely to be excluded anyway. That doesn't stop, in my opinion, TTIP being a really bad thing for the UK.
However, if we left, then there's the potential a Tory majority Government could establish a TTIP scheme independently.
Labour are opposed to it, and Jeremy Corbyn has vowed to kill such an agreement in Parliament.
On the other hand, John Major, former Tory PM, has put
this on record. He reckons "the NHS would be as safe as a pet hamster in the presence of a hungry python if Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Iain Duncan Smith rose to power following Brexit". It speaks volumes, for someone who worked for Mrs Thatcher.