North East Buses

Why do Newcastle Sunderland and South Shields not have magic bus. I know Newcastle previously did

(22 Feb 2021, 10:56 am)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]Why do Newcastle Sunderland and South Shields not have magic bus. I know Newcastle previously did

I don't really see the point of magic bus tbh, especially considering that Stagecoach want to have a "corporate identity" these days, it's not much point. A bus with a few stars on it doesn't make much difference if it's just the same route with the same buses as. It's not like Stagecoach Gold, where there would be new buses and passengers would think of it as a premium service with extra "luxuries". I don't think Magic Bus is known very well these days, except from Manchester. Back in the 90s/ early 2000s, I'm pretty sure Magic bus had a bad name for itself. You'd often see broken down Magicbuses around the city. 

If Stagecoach NE were to introduce magic bus for a different reason, the most obvious place would be Newcastle, probably on the 22 as a rival against the Coaster 1 services, but there aren't really that many corridors where there is strong competition in Newcastle anymore. Stagecoach pretty much rule the South Shields anyway, so there's no point. Similarly, in Sunderland each area is either mainly Stagecoach or GNE. Although, the Chester Road corridor (16) or the Durham Road routes (3,4) would be the most likely if any of this was to happen.

Newcastle might get a small number of new singer decker buses, between 6 and 8. Newcastle can retain some ALX300s if they are spare buses if my memory is correct.

Likely cascading will see the newer ALX300s move to Stockton, where services 10,13,13a and 34 see ALX300 buses anyway so customers wouldn't be too affected.

A small batch of Stockton 64 plate E300's would transfer to Hartlepool, and the same number of ADL E200s would move to Newcastle to replace the remaining front line ALX300s.

(22 Feb 2021, 10:56 am)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]Why do Newcastle Sunderland and South Shields not have magic bus. I know Newcastle previously did

There's no need for it. Magic Bus is just there for routes where there's a dog fight so they can charge lower fares and try and wipe out the competition who exist in the area.

I believe the Manchester one started to try and wipe out UK Buses (Delicenced), Bullocks (sold to Stagecoach) and Finglands (Sold to First Manchester) but still exists because of the massive war that still exists on Wilmslow Road between Stagecoach, First and now GNW aswell. The 192 Magicbus being scrapped when UK Buses was delicenced.

Magicbus has been allover the place including Newcastle, Rotherham, Ayr, Glasgow (where it first started - twice) and Inverness. The last which ended up arson at Stagecoach's Inverness depot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4713656.stm).

The only corridor where it would work in the North East is the Coast Road and we all know what happened there in the early 10's when Bargain Bus was introduced which was the exact same thing. Now no-one would dare attempt those stunts again as it cost a fortune for both Arriva and GNE even known there's still problems with the Coast Road today and parts of the Bargain Bus still exists with the North Tyne (GNE) and Coastliner (Arriva) tickets which we're part of it.

(08 Feb 2021, 7:08 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]There is too many ALX 300's for 6,7,8 & 18 combined. They would definetely need either cascades or temporary transfers to/from other depots at the least. I also beleive tis would help with crowding on 6,7,8 & 18 mainly at peak times.

Yeah that's fair, I'm not too sure on the numbers there tbf.

(22 Feb 2021, 12:58 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah that's fair, I'm not too sure on the numbers there tbf.

Numbers don't really matter at the moment thanks to Covid but I was speaking in pre-covid times, the 6/7/8 really stuggled with capacity at peak times with buses at their capacity with people standing. Especially from Metrocentre - Newbiggin Hall (Both ways). And the 18 was at crowded the times i've been on it. However I know that deckers are mainly used on this route anyways as it's walkergate's route and they have only a few singles anyways.

(22 Feb 2021, 3:46 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Numbers don't really matter at the moment thanks to Covid but I was speaking in pre-covid times, the 6/7/8 really stuggled with capacity at peak times with buses at their capacity with people standing. Especially from Metrocentre - Newbiggin Hall (Both ways). And the 18 was at crowded the times i've been on it. However I know that deckers are mainly used on this route anyways as it's walkergate's route and they have only a few singles anyways.

Ah you misread it there. Meant numbers in terms of number for allocations

(22 Feb 2021, 5:36 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Ah you misread it there. Meant numbers in terms of number for allocations

Ah no problem. me neither

(22 Feb 2021, 12:14 pm)Benny wrote [ -> ]Newcastle might get a small number of new singer decker buses, between 6 and 8. Newcastle can retain some ALX300s if they are spare buses if my memory is correct.

Likely cascading will see the newer ALX300s move to Stockton, where services 10,13,13a and 34 see ALX300 buses anyway so customers wouldn't be too affected.

A small batch of Stockton 64 plate E300's would transfer to Hartlepool, and the same number of ADL E200s would move to Newcastle to replace the remaining front line ALX300s.

I wouldn’t mind the Stockton E300 been moved to Hartlepool or even the 54 plate Mans as the current fleet is unreliable and is often breaking down.    Would be the next best thing to getting brand new buses here.

(22 Feb 2021, 12:14 pm)Benny wrote [ -> ]Newcastle might get a small number of new singer decker buses, between 6 and 8. Newcastle can retain some ALX300s if they are spare buses if my memory is correct.

Likely cascading will see the newer ALX300s move to Stockton, where services 10,13,13a and 34 see ALX300 buses anyway so customers wouldn't be too affected.

A small batch of Stockton 64 plate E300's would transfer to Hartlepool, and the same number of ADL E200s would move to Newcastle to replace the remaining front line ALX300s.

i would have thought that any E300s would come to Newcastle and 200s would stay around hartlepool, i could be wrong but quite a few Newcastle routes allocated 200s were strained for capacity especially with social distancing

(28 Feb 2021, 1:07 am)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]i would have thought that any E300s would come to Newcastle and 200s would stay around hartlepool, i could be wrong but quite a few Newcastle routes allocated 200s were strained for capacity especially with social distancing

The MAN E200s have more seats than a ADL E300 and with a new Euro 6 engine could improve reliability on these buses. Also stagecoach seem to like fleet standardisation, keeping batches together etc.

(22 Feb 2021, 12:58 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]There's no need for it. Magic Bus is just there for routes where there's a dog fight so they can charge lower fares and try and wipe out the competition who exist in the area.

I believe the Manchester one started to try and wipe out UK Buses (Delicenced), Bullocks (sold to Stagecoach) and Finglands (Sold to First Manchester) but still exists because of the massive war that still exists on Wilmslow Road between Stagecoach, First and now GNW aswell. The 192 Magicbus being scrapped when UK Buses was delicenced.

Magicbus has been allover the place including Newcastle, Rotherham, Ayr, Glasgow (where it first started - twice) and Inverness. The last which ended up arson at Stagecoach's Inverness depot (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4713656.stm).

The only corridor where it would work in the North East is the Coast Road and we all know what happened there in the early 10's when Bargain Bus was introduced which was the exact same thing. Now no-one would dare attempt those stunts again as it cost a fortune for both Arriva and GNE even known there's still problems with the Coast Road today and parts of the Bargain Bus still exists with the North Tyne (GNE) and Coastliner (Arriva) tickets which we're part of it.


Yeah that's fair, I'm not too sure on the numbers there tbf.

Go North West do indeed have a route down Wilmslow Road, route 41, soon to use ex-Go North East route 26/27 Citaros.  However, First no longer have any buses there, having closed the former Finglands base at Fallowfield and sold Queens Road to Go-Ahead t/a Go North West.

Stagecoach orders 46 BYD ADL electric buses for fleets in Scotland (transportengineer.org.uk)

i wonder if this means that there might be a cascade of vehicles to north east. i know inverness received a handful of north east E400s somepoint last year. i suppose if there is any euro 6 buses up there it may make sense to bring them down here ready for the CAZ coming into effect

Do you think stagecoach north east should get second hand single decker like enviro 300 to replace old man single decker from over fleet. Not just E400?

(04 Apr 2021, 12:41 am)glen wrote [ -> ]Do you think stagecoach north east should get second hand single decker like enviro 300 to replace old man single decker from over fleet. Not just E400?

on paper yes but after the likes of the E300s they got for the 100 service they might not want to, it feels like they had nothing but trouble from them for a while.

i would be happy for any of the ALX 300s to be cascaded to SNE, at least then they can use them for spare parts if they arent up to scratch if they require to keep the indigenous batches going until they are replaced proper

I wouldnt be surprised if Stagecoach bought some new Hybrid E400MMC's for the 62/63,then shoving the 16 reg E400MMC's on either the 12 or 22, they like doing that

(04 Apr 2021, 6:15 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]I wouldnt be surprised if Stagecoach bought some new Hybrid E400MMC's for the 62/63,then shoving the 16 reg E400MMC's on either the 12 or 22, they like doing that

After the amount of lost revenue over the past 12 months i cant imagine many big orders within many of the big companies, unless they receive some sort of subsidy i would be very surprised if a big batch of brand new vehicles turned up

I not expecting brand new buses but Hartlepool desperately needs better buses. Most of the fleet is struggling now especially the 08 plate enviros where most of them don’t seem fit for purpose.

(06 Apr 2021, 10:22 am)col87 wrote [ -> ]I not expecting brand new buses but Hartlepool desperately needs better buses. Most of the fleet is struggling now especially the 08 plate enviros where most of them don’t seem fit for purpose.

Yeah totally agree there, it feels like most of the depots are having problems with E200s

Most other divisions have replaced there man enviro 200s now. They should be high up list for replacement from all north east depots in next few years. The amount of crap that comes out of exhaust suprised they haven’t been banned from service lol

(07 Apr 2021, 11:41 pm)Youngymmv wrote [ -> ]Most other divisions have replaced there man enviro 200s now. They should be high up list for replacement from all north east depots in next few years. The amount of crap that comes out of exhaust suprised they haven’t been banned from service lol

Been told the newer buses are just as bad as well don’t think they is many decent buses in Hartlepool depot now. It’s actually shocking how every depot except Hartlepool has had investment over the last 10 years but Hartlepool has to carry on with mostly buses that are just struggling.  The fact one of the 05 plate enviro 300s had to be pulled off the 10 in Middlesbrough yesterday so the 1 could run on time after the one used for the 1 had a problem and it’s now quite regular for at least one of Stockton’s or Sunderlands buses ( usually a dart which are still are quite good and show up the newer buses) shows Hartlepool desperately needs investment.

Hi think it time new buses to come hartlepool depot all they got are E200 and dart I think they should get are single decker for the 1service I seen the man buses do it before on service 1.

(07 Apr 2021, 11:41 pm)Youngymmv wrote [ -> ]Most other divisions have replaced there man enviro 200s now. They should be high up list for replacement from all north east depots in next few years. The amount of crap that comes out of exhaust suprised they haven’t been banned from service lol

tbf they badly need to get arid of the MAN ALX300's nevermind the Enviro's. Can't imagine there's many other operators in the country with them running around nowadays considering the last one was sold in 2006 on frontline services.

Hey hey. The ALX300 are complete fine. Nothing wrong with them. Get rid of the MAN 18.240LF ADL Enviro300 absolutely terrible vehicles they are

(09 Apr 2021, 7:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]tbf they badly need to get arid of the MAN ALX300's nevermind the Enviro's. Can't imagine there's many other operators in the country with them running around nowadays considering the last one was sold in 2006 on frontline services.

in an ideal world i would completely agree but for there age they are lasting a lot longer than some of the newer vehicles are, i would happily see more ALX 300 cascades from other divisions arrive here to bolster the numbers and replace some of the 200s before anything else, if it wasnt for the CAZ coming into effect soon i would like to see ALX 300s for another 5 years

I like the man single decker but I like some other single deckers apart Enviro 300 to come stagecoach north east like other vehicles Volvo or Mercedes it be nice to see some different today look at

I would love to see a great deal of investment in SNE this year as i believe its the 3rd highest profitable subsidiary after London and Manchester, but i do fear after Covid and losses  I think it would be wishful thinking for entirely new vehicles to turn up.

I would say if around 15 Enviro 200s could be sourced- ideally anything after 2013/2014 years as models after these years seem to have less problems than the current batches currently in the northeast, this would allow the most problematic of the 2008 examples the majority i believe are at hartlepool to be took out of service and used as spare parts, a lack of which i believe has been a cause of some problems.

i would also say if around 20-25 single decks could be sourced, again anything after 2013 model enviros or at a pinch later years ALX 300s as these are still mostly going strong albeit totally unsuitable for the clean air zone coming into affect some point. ideally if if newer enviros i would say use ten to oust some of the 200s found at slatyford again freeing up some of the problematic members of the batches to be used for spare parts. the other 15 use to remove the 1st GEN enviro 300s at Stockton out of service, the SP08 batch of 300s initially procured as 100 buses and to remove some of the ALXs from service.

as for double decker's i would say if around 25-30 vehicles, anything newer than 2012 examples to do the following, 

the first 10 would allow the 4 hired in Volvos to go off lease and also  replace 19439 which was fire damaged. also ousting the final 5 2007 registered examples

i would then say a second batch of ten could be split between sunderland which could allow for more capacity on X24 and the E services potentially  cascading 5 newer single deckers to slatyford which in turn if they also received 5 double decks could allow around ten older single decks to be either removed from service or used to relieve fleet shortages particularly at south shields or hartlepool.

finally a third batch of ten would allow the more problematic members of 2008 registered examples to be ousted

Hi dose anyone know stagecoach new orders for 2021/21 yet and for stagecoach north east.

Buggar all

I wish I did not say anything now.

(20 Apr 2021, 9:44 pm)glen wrote [ -> ]I wish I did not say anything now.

No, you asked a valid question, and got a reply that, although technically correct, possibly lacked a little, errr, "finesse" .....

The reality is that the Covid situation has made the future extremely uncertain, combined with the financial issues that operators will be facing.  These two combined mean that it's going to be pretty difficult to justify spending money on things that aren't essential for a while.  If you've already got a bus that meets regulations and isn't costing too much to put back together if or when it breaks down, then it's not going to be easy to fund replacing it.  The exception will be where legislation requires a new(er) vehicle to be used, for example where emissions limitations are being introduced, which requires vehicles that have emissions better than a certain standard to be used.  That may force purchase of new buses, but it may just as easily in these difficult times result in a reshuffling of existing vehicles to ensure the areas that need them have the better buses, and the rest end up in areas without the amended legislation.