North East Buses

Is Stockton depot getting the hydrogen buses then? Is what you are saying.

So what hydrogen buses will we be getting and when?

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(02 Jun 2022, 1:52 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]What you could do for Hartlepool is this.

1 High Tunstall - Middlesbrough kept as it is but possibly becoming a joint service with Stockton.
The High Tunstal Seaton Journey renumbered to 1A or 2. Meaning that reduces the number of buses Hartlepool need for it. 

3/3A already had reductions down from 15 - 30 Minutes can’t really cut it further.  Putting it back to inter working with the 6 could work though. 3 would run every 20 minutes.

6 continues as now but split back into every second Journey going to South Fens these Journeys renumbered as 5 on 20 minutes frequency.  6 would inter work with the 3. 

7 could be dropped down to every 15 minutes going back up to 10 at peak times. 

If more drivers and better buses become available  also do a 7A again which operates via Millbank Road and Morrisons M - F daytimes
This would only be temporary solutions though the long aim should be better services.

Using Saint Patrick’s could do 3/6/7 inter working.
Say a fleet of 36
5 Dart SLF
10 of the better 08 plate enviros
6 Alexander 300 ( From Stockton or Newcastle )
2 Mercedes Benz  sprinters ( Teesflex)
3  05 plate enviro 300 ( from Teesside )
10 64/15 plate Enviro 300 ( From Stockton ).
This would see off the majority of the 08 plate enviros. The 59 and 61 plate Dart bodied enviros could be used in spare capacity’s or go back to Sunderland/ Shields depots for work there. 

If Newcastle get 20 or so buses such as mixture of enviro 200 and 400 MMC then Stockton could get older 57- 61 plate enviros as well as well as Alexander 300 freeing up some buses to move to Hartlepool which would make the fleet more reliable even if it is still mostly older buses.

But the 05 plate e300s are used on the 35 for the School Runs which are packed and smaller buses can't handle them sk they won't be going 

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Imagine Arriva and Stagecosch shared the 36, ik the flexitickrt is in place but they could make a better one and 2 way flexiticket if they ever decided to do this

(05 Aug 2022, 2:03 pm)Lollist wrote [ -> ]So what hydrogen buses will we be getting and when?

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Imagine Arriva and Stagecosch shared the 36, ik the flexitickrt is in place but they could make a better one and 2 way flexiticket if they ever decided to do this

I don’t think it will ever happen.  As for the Enviro 300 if Stockton got some of the older Deckers from Newcastle that would solve the issue at School times.  The same is true in Hartlepool it’s been the case for year the current buses struggle to cope with school kids as well as normal especially on the 6/7 with how many schools each of them pass.

I reckon new E400MMC's for the 22,then the hybrids would go onto the 12

So is stagecoach north east getting new buses the way talking we are getting new buses then?

(13 Aug 2022, 1:00 am)glen wrote [ -> ]So is stagecoach north east getting new buses the way talking we are getting new buses then?

i dont think there is glen, i would like there to be myself as i dont think a high performing area with a healthy profit margin should be running buses that are nearly 20 years old but obviously stagecoach dont agree, im sure SNE would like to have newer buses.

dont get me wrong the 69 plate double deckers seemed to turn up out of nowhere with about 2 weeks notice back in 2019, i didnt know they were arriving so anything could happen

Thanks you for the info mate

Just want to say the 36 37,38 was on the window of 26293 have gone I thought that bus was for the 36,37,38 service?

(11 Aug 2022, 12:46 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]I don’t think it will ever happen.  As for the Enviro 300 if Stockton got some of the older Deckers from Newcastle that would solve the issue at School times.  The same is true in Hartlepool it’s been the case for year the current buses struggle to cope with school kids as well as normal especially on the 6/7 with how many schools each of them pass.

Lmao I get the 35 to school daily it's absolutely packed poor alx300s struggle literally no seats people have to stand at the doors and the moody drivers constantly saying "move back" when you can't move back because it's too full it's ridiculous

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(13 Aug 2022, 10:20 pm)glen wrote [ -> ]Just want to say the 36 37,38 was on the window of 26293 have gone I thought that bus was for the 36,37,38 service?

I've seen them on 58,59 and 35 and 14/39/13 before there isn't really an allocation for them

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Aren't stockton getting 09 plate e300s in trade for the oj's

(14 Aug 2022, 8:10 am)Lollist wrote [ -> ]Lmao I get the 35 to school daily it's absolutely packed poor alx300s struggle literally no seats people have to stand at the doors and the moody drivers constantly saying "move back" when you can't move back because it's too full it's ridiculous

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I've seen them on 58,59 and 35 and 14/39/13 before there isn't really an allocation for them

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Aren't stockton getting 09 plate e300s in trade for the oj's

whats the ojs?

this is pure fantasy on my part but if i could i would try and acquire around 25 double decks, lets just say 2013/14 examples, certainly nothing older you could easily use to increase capacity across the north east and not replace any of the older decker's.

before introducing anything i would try and swap maybe 5 of the 16 plate MMCs at walkergate for 08 examples at slatyford, the 63 is a very long hard route and 62 is even worse now alternating buses go down to throckley 

for example i would use the first 5 buses to send the 5 2007 E400s to Stockton, i would only replace 3 of the single decker's instead of all 5 so that you have 2 spares

i would send 10 of the 2008 batch E400s to sunderland, removing 4 each of E300 and E200 again leaving 2 spare vehicles

and the final ten i would use to send to slatyford copying the sunderland routine building up capacity on routes in newcastle, in the mornings i see even traditionally quieter routes like the X47/71 uncomfortably full.

potentially thats around 10 ALX 300 you could get rid of or use for spares and around 10 E200s you could get rid off

SN64OJ batch like SN64OJY

Hartlepool got 15 new B10M's, the 10 in '95 and a further 5 in '98. There were 5 new Dart's in '96 i think? The "Super6" one's were actually new to Stockton depot in November '97.

Think I've twice saw comments on here about Hartlepool having 2 "Tees Flex" branded buses, theres 3.

I'm told engineering have major headaches with the MAN's but I personally prefer driving them to the ADL's as I find them less problematic in service. 39661, 39666 and a third one i forget the number of are up for imminent withdrawal and are being replaced by a trio of 36XXX buses from Newcastle.

Hartlepool also got 4 Yorkshire Dart's but 35236 has yet to enter service and 35263 was rotten and got scrapped

Personally, I've had no issues with seating space on school runs. Granted ther's very few empty seats, but there are often empty seat when I drive them. Or maybe the kids avoid my bus because of my driving?

(14 Aug 2022, 12:01 pm)Lollist wrote [ -> ]SN64OJ batch like SN64OJY

ah right yeah

(14 Aug 2022, 12:01 pm)Lollist wrote [ -> ]SN64OJ batch like SN64OJY

The E300s at Stockton are going nowhere……
As has been stated many times, it will be the MMCs heading northwards when the time comes - although it sounds like not all of them will be moving…….

Ideally what Hartlepool needs is new buses for the 1 6/7.

The Manviros struggle to do the route along Tees Road so something like Enviro 200 MMC would work well on it or even some of the 64 plate Enviro 300 Stockton have. I would think would need a PVR of 4 - 8 so order of 10 with 2 spares could go on other routes would be about right.

The 6/7 are probably the most profitable of the Hartlepool services and both can get quite so some decent buses on there are needed. Again the Enviros what Stockton have would be ideal for it.

All of the remaining fleet would then be used for the 3/3A and as spares. The fact is the buses are not good enough what Hartlepool have.

Are SC Hartlepool services just not profitable which is why all their buses are so old and are being stuck together the best they can? Or does SC just not want to invest?

(14 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm)You tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Hartlepool got 15 new B10M's, the 10 in '95 and a further 5 in '98. There were 5 new Dart's in '96 i think? The "Super6" one's were actually new to Stockton depot in November '97.

Think I've twice saw comments on here about Hartlepool having 2 "Tees Flex" branded buses, theres 3.

I'm told engineering have major headaches with the MAN's but I personally prefer driving them to the ADL's as I find them less problematic in service. 39661, 39666 and a third one i forget the number of are up for imminent withdrawal and are being replaced by a trio of 36XXX buses from Newcastle.

Hartlepool also got 4 Yorkshire Dart's but 35236 has yet to enter service and 35263 was rotten and got scrapped

Personally, I've had no issues with seating space on school runs. Granted ther's very few empty seats, but there are often empty seat when I drive them. Or maybe the kids avoid my bus because of my driving?

Yeah that’s close enough the B10Ms where the first buses in Stagecoach stripes when they took over Hartlepool Transport. They where replacements for Bristol REs. Then in 96 a few second hand Lynx’s where brought in as well to get rid of some of the Dennis Falcons.The final REs where withdrawn in 97 due to the B10Ms.  They was one or two darts I don’t think they were new though and they didn’t really last long only about a year.   Then in 1999 the super six darts entered Service which seen off the Leyland Nationals and all but about 2 Falcons. Some more darts come in late 2000 which seen off the last Falcon. Then in 2003 some B10Bs came from Newcastle to replace the Lynx’s. In 2004 the next brand new buses entered service with the Dart SLF which replaced the Step Entrance darts. Then nothing until 2008 when 19 Manviro 200 entered service. This not only seen off the B10S but the few Volvo Olympians what where here ( although lasted till about 2009 doing school work ). 2 B10Bs survived till 2010 when service changes made them redundant.  Then between 2010 - 2014 Hartlepool depot was just Manviro 200 Transbus Dart SLF and Alexander 200 darts. The Alexander 200 started getting withdrawn in 2013 with the last remaining one getting withdrawn on New Years Eve 2014.  Then nothing apart from Sunderland Dart SLF replacing Hartlepool ones in 2015 and some manviros coming from Shields.  The darts got withdrawn in 2017 with Enviros coming from shields. Then a year later some Manviros where swapped with Enviros from Sunderland. The Darts only came back in 2020 due to shortages with the ones coming from Yorkshire in late 2021.

(14 Aug 2022, 9:58 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Are SC Hartlepool services just not profitable which is why all their buses are so old and are being stuck together the best they can? Or does SC just not want to invest?

i think hartlepool like south shields is a "low cost" depot, i dont know whether that means a lot of services are not profit making and subsidised by local government or nexus etc, so it would make sense from a commercial view to put your best buses where they are actually going to make money

It was the "Super 6" Dart's that saw off the RE's. Stockton got those new replacing Lynx's for Hartlepool in November '97. Hartlepool got 5 new Dart's in '96, P457-61EEF but yea, they wern't about long before heading to Darlington. The Lynx's survived up to 2004 being replaced by the new 2004 Dart's.

As for buses struggling on Tees Road, the only one's I've had bother with are the limp mode ADL's. The MAN's are absolutely fine. The only issue is there's 2 of them we can't turn the engine off at Middlesbrough Bus Station because the injectors are shot and they wont start again.

(15 Aug 2022, 11:43 am)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]It was the "Super 6" Dart's that saw off the RE's. Stockton got those new replacing Lynx's for Hartlepool in November '97. Hartlepool got 5 new Dart's in '96, P457-61EEF but yea, they wern't about long before heading to Darlington. The Lynx's survived up to 2004 being replaced by the new 2004 Dart's.

As for buses struggling on Tees Road, the only one's I've had bother with are the limp mode ADL's. The MAN's are absolutely fine. The only issue is there's 2 of them we can't turn the engine off at Middlesbrough Bus Station because the injectors are shot and they wont start again.

That’s not quite right.  The last RE run in November 1997 but the super six darts didn’t enter service till Spring 1999. The Lynx’s where brought in to replace the remaining RE. The super six darts in affect replaced the leyland national as they went the same time the super six was launched with the majority of Falcon also gone by that point. The last falcon managed to survive till the Autumn of 2000 when the step entrance darts entered service.  The lynx’s got withdrawn in Late 2003 but same went to Stockton with others been turned into driver training buses. The Newcastle B10B replaced them. The service 1 didn’t get the Darts till Spring 2004 and it definitely the step entrance darts. One step entrance dart did come back in 2007 mainly doing the 5/7/7A/12 services but that went with the Volvos in 2008 when the Manviros entered service.  
some of the Volvos went to Newcastle with some going to Stockton.  

As a passenger have heard quite a few man’s struggle along the Tees Road. My understanding was that was why if possible they were never hardly used on the Middlesbrough 1s and why the Darts where kept on it for so long and why it’s still mostly the 59 and 11 plate enviros doing it.  It’s not surprising that  there’s at least 2 what can’t be turned off at Middlesbrough so what happens then if you get the 10 minute layover with it ?  Apparently they was a rumour as well that they were banned from doing the 527 and 15/4A in the past as well because they would have have got stuck at the turning point at Ensign Court.

The "Super 6" Darts were in service on route 59 in Stockton from November 1997, allowing Lynx's to move to Hartlepool to withdraw the final RE in November 1997. And thet's what I was refering to, not when they were transfered to Hartlepool, which was in indeed June '99, giving Hartlepool it's 2nd low entrance route. Jayline's 226 beating them by a week! I'm assuming references to B10B's are a typo? Hartlepool never ran any.

The only buses I've had stuggle on the 1 are ADLs in limp mode, particularly passing Able UK at a maximum speed of 20! The MANs manage just fine. They tend to allocate 360xx buses as there's 3 of them I think? That can do 65 MPH rather than the 49MPH everything else is limited to.

The 2004 Dart's will have been kept on that route for years as they were bought specifically for that route with some local authority funding which probably had usage restrictions or something like that.

Any accesibility issues will be because the MAN's are 11.5 metres long, the ADL's are only 10.8 metres.

The last time I drove 35234 I was told not to turn that off too but wasn't told why.

(17 Aug 2022, 10:39 am)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]The "Super 6" Darts were in service on route 59 in Stockton from November 1997, allowing Lynx's to move to Hartlepool to withdraw the final RE in November 1997. And thet's what I was refering to, not when they were transfered to Hartlepool, which was in indeed June '99, giving Hartlepool it's 2nd low entrance route. Jayline's 226 beating them by a week! I'm assuming references to B10B's are a typo? Hartlepool never ran any.

The only buses I've had stuggle on the 1 are ADLs in limp mode, particularly passing Able UK at a maximum speed of 20! The MANs manage just fine. They tend to allocate 360xx buses as there's 3 of them I think? That can do 65 MPH rather than the 49MPH everything else is limited to.

The 2004 Dart's will have been kept on that route for years as they were bought specifically for that route with some local authority funding which probably had usage restrictions or something like that.

Any accesibility issues will be because the MAN's are 11.5 metres long, the ADL's are only 10.8 metres.

The last time I drove 35234 I was told not to turn that off too but wasn't told why.

Ok just what I have noticed when the man’s have been on the 1.

I know SC Cumbria have just marked 3 MX55 tridents for disposal, its a shame that SNE don't snap them up if they are half decent to use in Sunderland, being significantly younger than the open top tridents which are getting used on various routes, plus Kent has a 54 reg and SC west and oxfordshire a 06 plate, i know obviously they are abit older but if they are in decent shape I'm sure 5 double decker's would be a welcome addition to sunderland depot

(21 Aug 2022, 6:45 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]I know SC Cumbria have just marked 3 MX55 tridents for disposal, its a shame that SNE don't snap them up if they are half decent to use in Sunderland, being significantly younger than the open top tridents which are getting used on various routes, plus Kent has a 54 reg and SC west and oxfordshire a 06 plate, i know obviously they are abit older but if they are in decent shape I'm sure 5 double decker's would be a welcome addition to sunderland depot

For what?  The Tridents afaik only get used on the 19 or Es - although they are heaps they are at least open top heaps, which make for a nice day at the seaside (or touring the Sunderland north estates, whatever your preference may be).

(21 Aug 2022, 10:22 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]For what?  The Tridents afaik only get used on the 19 or Es - although they are heaps they are at least open top heaps, which make for a nice day at the seaside (or touring the Sunderland north estates, whatever your preference may be).

If they where to go anywhere then Stockton would be the obvious choice for the 12 13 36 37 38 39 52 58 services which in some causes a double decker would be handy. Even Hartlepool at peak times could do with them for the 6/7 to make it less packed.

(21 Aug 2022, 6:45 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]I know SC Cumbria have just marked 3 MX55 tridents for disposal, its a shame that SNE don't snap them up if they are half decent to use in Sunderland, being significantly younger than the open top tridents which are getting used on various routes, plus Kent has a 54 reg and SC west and oxfordshire a 06 plate, i know obviously they are abit older but if they are in decent shape I'm sure 5 double decker's would be a welcome addition to sunderland depot

Are you forecasting these to have their roofs chopped off as replacements? 17643 is being repaired which was a surprise given it's age so the quartet would appear to be staying for at least another year

(21 Aug 2022, 10:22 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]For what?  The Tridents afaik only get used on the 19 or Es - although they are heaps they are at least open top heaps, which make for a nice day at the seaside (or touring the Sunderland north estates, whatever your preference may be).

exactly save the open toppers for the seaside runs and use dedicated on the estates

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(22 Aug 2022, 7:07 am)54APhotography wrote [ -> ]Are you forecasting these to have their roofs chopped off as replacements? 17643 is being repaired which was a surprise given it's age so the quartet would appear to be staying for at least another year

no, i was saying that instead of using the open toppers for increasing capacity on the standard services, if hypothetically these trident were sourced they could be used on the Es and other routes etc. potentially a few years down the line when the current open toppers are worn out maybe convert the newer ones

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(21 Aug 2022, 10:36 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]If they where to go anywhere then Stockton would be the obvious choice for the 12 13 36 37 38 39 52 58 services which in some causes a double decker would be handy. Even Hartlepool at peak times could do with them for the 6/7 to make it less packed.

or send them to stockton

(22 Aug 2022, 10:14 am)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]exactly save the open toppers for the seaside runs and use dedicated on the estates

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no, i was saying that instead of using the open toppers for increasing capacity on the standard services, if hypothetically these trident were sourced they could be used on the Es and other routes etc. potentially a few years down the line when the current open toppers are worn out maybe convert the newer ones

But the 19 runs from the estates to the seaside - that's the point of it...

Do they even use the open toppers on standard services?  Can probably count on one hand the number of times it has ever happened.  They struggle enough to even use them on the open top routes half the time!

(22 Aug 2022, 11:46 am)stagecoachbusdepot wrote [ -> ]But the 19 runs from the estates to the seaside - that's the point of it...

Do they even use the open toppers on standard services?  Can probably count on one hand the number of times it has ever happened.  They struggle enough to even use them on the open top routes half the time!

so if they are struggling would newer vehicles not help matters?

(22 Aug 2022, 1:27 pm)toward6931 wrote [ -> ]so if they are struggling would newer vehicles not help matters?

Of course, assuming the ones available aren't knackered.  I would be amazed however if SNE went to the expense of converting some more life expired deckers to open top for the PVR of 1 on the 19 plus whatever random offering on the Es.  The only reason we have the open toppers is because they became spare on the demise of CSS.  They tried Seasider and abandoned it (who knows if that might have grown were it not for Covid) and now are basically just making use of the otherwise dead resource.