North East Buses

Thanks for info mate

Sorry I didn't know where else to put this, so I thought this most convenient place.

Does anyone know what Stagecoach are going to do about the ever imminent CAZ in Newcastle as they still have MAN ALX300's in active service and they cannot just move them onto other single decker routes as there are only 2 routes that don't enter the city centre at all, which is 6,7,8 and 18. However I feel there would be too many of them so they would have to cascade some. Do you think some new E200 MMC's could be on the way?

Also what are they doing about it? Such as GNE lowering emission standards to Euro 6 on most routes, even there Hybrids as euro 6 is cleaner. Are the E400's euro 6? I know the 69 plates are but what about the 16 plates and older??

(18 May 2021, 6:40 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Sorry I didn't know where else to put this, so I thought this most convenient place.

Does anyone know what Stagecoach are going to do about the ever imminent CAZ in Newcastle as they still have MAN ALX300's in active service and they cannot just move them onto other single decker routes as there are only 2 routes that don't enter the city centre at all, which is 6,7,8 and 18. However I feel there would be too many of them so they would have to cascade some. Do you think some new E200 MMC's could be on the way?

Also what are they doing about it? Such as GNE lowering emission standards to Euro 6 on most routes, even there Hybrids as euro 6 is cleaner. Are the E400's euro 6? I know the 69 plates are but what about the 16 plates and older??

I have a feeling some E300s from Stockton or even the E200MMCs could be getting swapped. I'd of said the Sunderland ones but South Tyneside Council footed the bill for Euro 6 upgrades to them.

(18 May 2021, 7:29 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]I have a feeling some E300s from Stockton or even the E200MMCs could be getting swapped. I'd of said the Sunderland ones but South Tyneside Council footed the bill for Euro 6 upgrades to them.

Yet quite a few MAN E200s are allocated to the E's on most days, with some of the ADL E300s being used on other routes that don't go anywhere near South Tyneside?

Therefore, would there be any repercussions if 27726-40 were transferred to Slatyford? Even as a temporary measure until funds become available for new vehicles to be purchased.

(18 May 2021, 8:48 pm)AIG20 wrote [ -> ]Yet quite a few MAN E200s are allocated to the E's on most days, with some of the ADL E300s being used on other routes that don't go anywhere near South Tyneside?

Therefore, would there be any repercussions if 27726-40 were transferred to Slatyford? Even as a temporary measure until funds become available for new vehicles to be purchased.

Stagecoach would need to declare this desire to South Tyneside Council, and get permission. I can’t imagine they’d be very keen on the idea as it means they’ve funded something for another area to gain from it, and would see more pollution in their own area.

Not great that they’re being used on other routes day to day but I suspect this isn’t noticed.


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(18 May 2021, 7:29 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]I have a feeling some E300s from Stockton or even the E200MMCs could be getting swapped. I'd of said the Sunderland ones but South Tyneside Council footed the bill for Euro 6 upgrades to them.

The 8 does go into Newcastle, im sure it goes to Central Station

(18 May 2021, 9:18 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]The 8 does go into Newcastle, im sure it goes to Central Station

Indeed it does

I don't understand why stagecoach should get rid of the MAN 18.220 Alexander ALX300. There still in good shape and good working order. Still sound amazing

I think so to mate about alx 300 buses.

(18 May 2021, 11:04 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote [ -> ]I don't understand why stagecoach should get rid of the MAN 18.220 Alexander ALX300. There still in good shape and good working order. Still sound amazing

Not get rid of,we're talking about putting them on other routes,which would either be the 6,7,or 18, because of the Euro Ratings of them they wouldnt be allowed on other services when CAZ comes into play,some of them are very much end of the line now anyway,being between 16 and 18 years old,the younger ALX300's are 14 years old

Tbh they suit being on the X63 but I know one day they will get taken off. I could see them on the 6 7 and the 8. And even the 18

(19 May 2021, 12:24 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote [ -> ]Tbh they suit being on the X63 but I know one day they will get taken off. I could see them on the 6 7 and the 8. And even the 18

They cant go on the 8 as it go's to Central Station,and its not on a full time service anyway,likewise they cant go on the X63,basically any service that go's through or to the City Centre from when CAZ comes into play must have a specified Euro rating,i believe Euro 6, so the ALX300's cant be allocated to those routes as they arent Euro 6,and because of their age wont have any Euro 6 modifications

They could make a new service where there still in use

Or, depending on the structure of the 'fines' for taking a non-compliant bus into the CAZ, they may be better of paying up than replacing the vehicles straight away.

(19 May 2021, 3:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Or, depending on the structure of the 'fines' for taking a non-compliant bus into the CAZ, they may be better of paying up than replacing the vehicles straight away.

Fair point

(18 May 2021, 11:04 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote [ -> ]I don't understand why stagecoach should get rid of the MAN 18.220 Alexander ALX300. There still in good shape and good working order. Still sound amazing

(19 May 2021, 11:37 am)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Not get rid of,we're talking about putting them on other routes,which would either be the 6,7,or 18, because of the Euro Ratings of them they wouldnt be allowed on other services when CAZ comes into play,some of them are very much end of the line now anyway,being between 16 and 18 years old,the younger ALX300's are 14 years old

I was in Eldon Square Bus Station earlier on today and I saw quite a few ALX300's (as usually allocated to X47, X77/8, X82, X87/88) and I think I only saw 1 possibly 2 that didn't cough out thick black smoke, they look even older compared to GNE's Citaro's (one coughed out black smoke I think and it was either 5337/5338) and Omnicites,[/size] even though there not much older.  I think this is because no other buses were coughing out black smoke.

(19 May 2021, 7:09 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]I was in Eldon Square Bus Station earlier on today and I saw quite a few ALX300's (as usually allocated to X47, X77/8, X82, X87/88) and I think I only saw 1 possibly 2 that didn't cough out thick black smoke, they look even older compared to GNE's Citaro's (one coughed out black smoke I think and it was either 5337/5338) and Omnicites,[/size] even though there not much older.  I think this is because no other buses were coughing out black smoke.

The MAN E200's are awful for kicking out smoke and also need replacing as a few still work the 6/7/8 & 32/32A while as you say the ALX300's are usually allocated X47, X63, X77/X78, X82, X87/X88 with the odd few sneaking on the 10/11/12/22/31 and 100 most days. Not sure what has had Euro 6 upgrades other than MAN E300's 24101-15, i'd imagine the 60 plate E400's have along with E400H's but there is a fare few 07/57/58 plate E400's which are Euro 4 rated.

Either way Stagecoach need to invest massively in Newcastle in the coming months with the emission zone coming into effect and I would personally like to see new buses on the Newcastle Expresses as it would give them a much needed boost as they've went far to long with having an "odd ball" allocation as we see on a daily basis and I do think this will impact passengers numbers when majority of the vehicles allocated do no not have Wifi or NSA's.

(19 May 2021, 10:04 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]The MAN E200's are awful for kicking out smoke and also need replacing as a few still work the 6/7/8 & 32/32A while as you say the ALX300's are usually allocated X47, X63, X77/X78, X82, X87/X88 with the odd few sneaking on the 10/11/12/22/31 and 100 most days. Not sure what has had Euro 6 upgrades other than MAN E300's 24101-15, i'd imagine the 60 plate E400's have along with E400H's but there is a fare few 07/57/58 plate E400's which are Euro 4 rated.

Either way Stagecoach need to invest massively in Newcastle in the coming months with the emission zone coming into effect and I would personally like to see new buses on the Newcastle Expresses as it would give them a much needed boost as they've went far to long with having an "odd ball" allocation as we see on a daily basis and I do think this will impact passengers numbers when majority of the vehicles allocated do no not have Wifi or NSA's.

Currently no stagecoach buses have Wi-Fi they turned it off on must or you get a message saying we are temporary switching off Wi-Fi speaking of which does any one know when the plan to turn it back on

(20 May 2021, 12:31 am)Ds1197 wrote [ -> ]Currently no stagecoach buses have Wi-Fi they turned it off on must or you get a message saying we are temporary switching off Wi-Fi speaking of which does any one know when the plan to turn it back on

I doubt they will turn it back on to be honest

(18 May 2021, 6:40 pm)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]Sorry I didn't know where else to put this, so I thought this most convenient place.

Does anyone know what Stagecoach are going to do about the ever imminent CAZ in Newcastle as they still have MAN ALX300's in active service and they cannot just move them onto other single decker routes as there are only 2 routes that don't enter the city centre at all, which is 6,7,8 and 18. However I feel there would be too many of them so they would have to cascade some. Do you think some new E200 MMC's could be on the way?

Also what are they doing about it? Such as GNE lowering emission standards to Euro 6 on most routes, even there Hybrids as euro 6 is cleaner. Are the E400's euro 6? I know the 69 plates are but what about the 16 plates and older??

One option for Stagecoach is swapping the 64  65 plate E300 at  Stockton with the remaining man Alexander 300s which would help in the short term. I suppose they could take a few E200 MMC as well from Stockton.  Ideally though Stagecoach need to do something so if money is available I would do the following. 

Newcastle. 
Enviro 400 MMC 
Enviro 200 MMC  
Some of the older Enviro 400 could be cascaded to Stockton and Sunderland depots along with the Enviro 300s. This would also help to see the end of the worse of the the Enviro 200s out of the north east fleet.  

Hartlepool 
Enviro 200 MMC 
Optare Versa   ( only if Stockton does not get new buses instead ) 
Enviro 400 MMC 

Hartlepool has a major problem at the moment in that it desperately needs better buses as the mechanics are having a difficult  job keeping the current fleet on the road. At least more than half the fleet is poor and needs to go. Getting some newer optare versea and enviro 200 MMC could solve the problem for at least the next few years.  Splitting the 36 with Stockton could also help especially with the reliability of that service which is why I put some Enviro 400 MMC on the list. 
 
Stockton 

Enviro 400 MMC 
Enviro 200 MMC 

More Enviro 200 MMC would see some of the remaining Man Alexander 300 removed from service and put into the reserve fleet. Enviro 400 for the 36 service shared with Hartlepool could beneficial and make the service more reliable plus once covid measures are finally fully removed it’s likely the 36 will return to be full on most journeys so extra capacity could be needed.  This could also some of the 64 and 65 plate E300 moved to Hartlepool to replace some of the worse of the Enviro 200 fleet.    

Hartlepool and Stockton 

Mercedes Benz Dodge 
Optare Solo SR. 

This could be used and bought in part payment by Tees Valley combined authority as spares and to extend the Tees flex operation. Could also be used for experimental routes or duplicates at busy times.  

I know before anyone points out none of this or at least most of this is likely to happen but everything there does benefit most depots and helps get rid of the worst of the fleet.

I would like to see E 400 mmc at Stockton on 36 I like it when Newcastle E400 mmc were on loan at Stockton.

Well there was nothing listed for any NE in the stagecoach handbook for this year

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As per usual it’s the “pet depots” of Scotland that get bulk of orders. Investment upon investment in areas that probably don’t even have justification (rant over)

(26 May 2021, 4:59 pm)Youngymmv wrote [ -> ]Well there was nothing listed for any NE in the stagecoach handbook for this year

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As per usual it’s the “pet depots” of Scotland that get bulk of orders. Investment upon investment in areas that probably don’t even have justification (rant over)

Most likely is that yes. Meanwhile Hartlepool have buses that no hardly fit for purpose and the engineers seeming to work flat out to keep them on the road. Newcastle have a big problem in that they have at least half the fleet unsuitable to be used in the city centre soon and once covid is over quite a few of Stockton’s services will likely once again be full. It the usual thing with Stagecoach though they don’t care. They won’t sell because if it don’t make much profit they still have a monopoly in that area but they won’t invest either.  Something needs doing but they won’t do anything.

(26 May 2021, 4:59 pm)Youngymmv wrote [ -> ]Well there was nothing listed for any NE in the stagecoach handbook for this year

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As per usual it’s the “pet depots” of Scotland that get bulk of orders. Investment upon investment in areas that probably don’t even have justification (rant over)

Stagecoach seem to favouritise the Scottish depots because they originated there

(26 May 2021, 6:56 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]Stagecoach seem to favouritise the Scottish depots because they originated there

Which is shocking when Hartlepool is in need of investment badly.

(26 May 2021, 4:59 pm)Youngymmv wrote [ -> ]Well there was nothing listed for any NE in the stagecoach handbook for this year

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As per usual it’s the “pet depots” of Scotland that get bulk of orders. Investment upon investment in areas that probably don’t even have justification (rant over)

Actually for Scotland:
52 buses are because Stagecoach has been awarded Electric Bus funding by the Scottish Government (which is mostly funded by the UK Government but that is another can of worms).
25 Volvo B8RLEs are for a new contracts gained on Orkney
6 AD E400MMCs for Fife
2 AD E400MMCs for Aberdeen

For England:
4 AD E400MMCs for the Canterbury Park & Ride contract
25 BYD double deckers for TfL contracts 160 & 180
21 Scania / AD E400MMCs for Gloucester route 10

Nothing for Wales

So a total of 140 buses with only 29 not related to a contract requirement or outside funding.
Don't forget that over the past 12 months Stagecoach and every other bus company has not made any money so they are only going to buy buses to meet contractual requirements, hopefully next year it will be better but who knows.

i think SNE especially the Newcastle division needs more investment, when i worked there nearly ten years ago now it was either the 3rd largest division in UK bus or 3rd most profitable, i cant remember which one.  Now that DWS has pretty much won the takeover and stagecoach has swooped in with a 20 million pound takeover of east London buses to say things are tight is not much of an excuse.

i think if 25 new double decker's could be  sourced it would alleviate a few problems namely allowing the 15 eldest decker's from SNE to cascaded elsewhere. and the remaining ten being used to increase capacity on a number of services. replacing the 5 oldest or most problematic single decker's at slatyford would help to make the transition to CAZ easier. 

i would break it down as the following

15x E400MMCs for walkergate enabling a cascade replacing 5x2007 E400s and 10x2008 E400s throughout the rest of SNE
10xE400 EMMCs replacing 10 single decker's at slatyford firstly allowing 5 E200s to be replaced. perhaps 3 to walkergate for 317 route  allowing some of the older ALX300s to used for component recovery and 2E200s to go to hartlepool to enable 2 of the troublesome E200s there to be replaced. Perhaps cascading 3 of the SP08 E300s with one of them scrapped for component recovery and the remaining numbers for replacing ALX300s



https://www.insider.co.uk/news/stagecoac...l-27079387

I think what I would do is this.

Split the remaining Alexander 300 between Hartlepool and Stockton depot. Hartlepool can use them on the 1 6/7 routes and Stockton on the 10/12/13/14 and 39 and cover on the 36/37/38 services.

Move all remaining darts to Hartlepool as well. Any darts at shields would be swapped with enviro 200 making it easier for Hartlepool and Shields to mostly have one type of midi bus.

This would then be the order for the north East

13 Enviro 200 MMC
3 For Hartlepool
5 For Newcastle
5 For Stockton.

10 Enviro 400 MMC
5 Slatyford
5 Walkergate
Older enviro 400 where possible split between remaining depots.

This should not just help with CAZ but also see off some of the Manviro 200s which are very unreliable.

(31 May 2022, 5:23 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]I think what I would do is this. 

Split the remaining Alexander 300 between Hartlepool and Stockton depot. Hartlepool can use them on the 1 6/7 routes and Stockton on the 10/12/13/14 and  39 and cover on the 36/37/38 services. 

Move all remaining darts to Hartlepool as well.  Any darts at shields would be swapped with enviro 200 making it easier for Hartlepool and  Shields to mostly have one type of midi bus.

This would then be the order for the north East

13 Enviro 200 MMC
3 For Hartlepool
5 For Newcastle
5 For Stockton.

10 Enviro 400 MMC
5 Slatyford
5 Walkergate
Older enviro 400 where possible split between remaining depots.

This should not just help with CAZ but also see off some of the Manviro 200s which are very unreliable.

Can't see that personally. I think all the crap with just be sent down to Stockton and Hartlepool with the newer buses heading North for the LEZ.

There's very very likely going to be some of Hydrogen order in the next couple of years down there as part of their BSIP which they got funding for which will see off all the older buses. I believe the 36 is one of the first routes getting done with no doubt PVR reductions because of the end of COVID funding in some areas anyway. No way will some routes survive as they are now.

(31 May 2022, 5:23 pm)col87 wrote [ -> ]I think what I would do is this. 

Split the remaining Alexander 300 between Hartlepool and Stockton depot. Hartlepool can use them on the 1 6/7 routes and Stockton on the 10/12/13/14 and  39 and cover on the 36/37/38 services. 

Move all remaining darts to Hartlepool as well.  Any darts at shields would be swapped with enviro 200 making it easier for Hartlepool and  Shields to mostly have one type of midi bus.

This would then be the order for the north East

13 Enviro 200 MMC
3 For Hartlepool
5 For Newcastle
5 For Stockton.

10 Enviro 400 MMC
5 Slatyford
5 Walkergate
Older enviro 400 where possible split between remaining depots.

This should not just help with CAZ but also see off some of the Manviro 200s which are very unreliable.

I'd say send the new buses above all to Newcastle. Send 5 of the 200MMC from Stockton so that service 36 is the flagship route plus 1 spare. 37/38 could use old deckers from Newcastle or routes like 10/13/14 could be ran by midi buses from Newcastle.  

Hartlepool will get whatever is spare.