(01 Aug 2015, 2:55 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]The grieving process is a harsh and unforgiving route, but I'm getting there. Got my eye on 4920 at the moment. Fast as a bastard.
I understand the pain, took me forever to get over the departure of 7413. I've got my sights set on 7505 and 7524 currently, although Tommy is insistent on taking the former away from me!
(01 Aug 2015, 3:07 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]You work in Gateshead, you tell it yourself. 
As for 4923, that, we can agree on. Always a pleasant ride.
Even retains the vintage seat moquette for you, Marcus..!
Whilst off-topic, I think I prefer this discussion rather than the service suggestions with the X21/X22 which have been done a thousand times.
(01 Aug 2015, 3:07 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I understand the pain, took me forever to get over the departure of 7413. I've got my sights set on 7505 and 7524 currently, although Tommy is insistent on taking the former away from me!
I could only be loyal to one. I wouldn't like to juggle A-Levels with two relationships.
(01 Aug 2015, 3:09 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Even retains the vintage seat moquette for you, Marcus..!
Whilst off-topic, I think I prefer this discussion rather than the service suggestions with the X21/X22 which have been done a thousand times.
Suppose it could still technically be service suggestions, just more which vehicles may or may not be allocated? Gonna go with that
(01 Aug 2015, 3:09 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]I could only be loyal to one. I wouldn't like to juggle A-Levels with two relationships.
Would be more than two....
I know
I've liked 7524 for some time, but 7505 is the only 57-plate I've ever really liked, dilemmas!! Think I'll go with '24 though...
Here's my suggestion for routes X18, X20, X21, X22, 35, 35A.
- Order 9 new ADL Enviro400 / Dennis Trident 2s for routes X21/X22(becomes X41/X42) rebrand 7522-8 as "Sapphire Express" and re-number as X41 & X42. No route or timetable changes while these are trialed with the current timetable to see if it needs tweaking in any places etc.
- 7501-5 get branded as 35/35A along with 1579-81 which will be refurbished to Sapphire spec for 35/35A which will be upgraded to a 10 minute frequency - Mon-Sat daytimes. As the 35 no longer interworks onto route 100 the frequency can be upgraded with just one more bus(?).
- Route X20 (Newcastle-Alnwick) gets upgraded to MAX with deckers from another Arriva division, these will be branded as "Explore Coast & Castles", and promoting the link to South East Northumberland. This route would remain hourly and use the X18 route between Widdrington Station and Alnmouth Station, where the X18 & X20 will call at Alnmouth Station, while the X20 goes straight to Alnwick while the X18 calls at Alnmouth Village then Alnwick (or whatever it is currently) to have a 30-minute frequency between Widdrington & Alnwick.
- So the X18 & X20 get promoted as "every 30 minutes between Widdrington and Alnwick, with hourly extensions to Alnmouth Village"
Let's hope this suggestion doesn't turn into a multi-million pound investment into E400MMCs and that.
(07 Aug 2015, 10:01 am)GX03 SVC wrote [ -> ]Here's my suggestion for routes X18, X20, X21, X22, 35, 35A.
- Order 9 new ADL Enviro400 / Dennis Trident 2s for routes X21/X22(becomes X41/X42) rebrand 7522-8 as "Sapphire Express" and re-number as X41 & X42. No route or timetable changes while these are trialed with the current timetable to see if it needs tweaking in any places etc.
- 7501-5 get branded as 35/35A along with 1579-81 which will be refurbished to Sapphire spec for 35/35A which will be upgraded to a 10 minute frequency - Mon-Sat daytimes. As the 35 no longer interworks onto route 100 the frequency can be upgraded with just one more bus(?).
- Route X20 (Newcastle-Alnwick) gets upgraded to MAX with deckers from another Arriva division, these will be branded as "Explore Coast & Castles", and promoting the link to South East Northumberland. This route would remain hourly and use the X18 route between Widdrington Station and Alnmouth Station, where the X18 & X20 will call at Alnmouth Station, while the X20 goes straight to Alnwick while the X18 calls at Alnmouth Village then Alnwick (or whatever it is currently) to have a 30-minute frequency between Widdrington & Alnwick.
- So the X18 & X20 get promoted as "every 30 minutes between Widdrington and Alnwick, with hourly extensions to Alnmouth Village"
Let's hope this suggestion doesn't turn into a multi-million pound investment into E400MMCs and that.
X21 needs quicker journeys, simple as. If a minute was added to the X21 between Bedlington Stn and Red Lion and 2 minutes were took from the X22 (between Ashington and Park Rd and between Wansbeck Est and Guide Post), the X21 could run by the Hartlands and this would mean that both services could maintain a 10 minute frequency from Ashington then between Bedlington and Newcastle a bit like this and similar to the way that the X10 / X11 run from Blyth:
Ashington: X21 (00), X22 (08), X21 (20), X22 (28), X21 (40), X22 (48)
Bedlington to Newcastle: Every 10 minutes.
Also, the X21 would take 53 mins from Ashington to Newcastle with the X22 taking 55 minutes. With increased layover times at Haymarket and Newbiggin (9 in Toon and 13 in Newbiggin) whilst also getting about 7-9 minites in Ashington,the X22 could afford to run a few minutes late if it got a good hammering amd not have a knock on effect. The X22 bar a few journeys, managed the 55 minute journey without too many issues, it was more down to poor layover times before the X21 / X22 began to be interworked.
Also, the Nedderton section could be replaced by a service that would form part of the Wide Open to Newcastle corridoor.
I know that the current routes are OKish, but the furthesy distance shoild benefit from quicker journey times. This will be happening with the X18 and GNE did this with the 10 rerouting it via Willies Well rather than via Stonyflat Bank (now 10B) to give improved journey times from the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and Metrocentre.
(07 Aug 2015, 3:00 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I know that the current routes are OKish, but the furthesy distance shoild benefit from quicker journey times. This will be happening with the X18 and GNE did this with the 10 rerouting it via Willies Well rather than via Stonyflat Bank (now 10B) to give improved journey times from the Tyne Valley to Newcastle and Metrocentre.
The X18 will still be serving Alnmouth Station from the 6th September.
(07 Aug 2015, 3:06 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]The X18 will still be serving Alnmouth Station from the 6th September.
Oppps, but you get the point? Northumbria ran the X31 ok, Arriva ran the X31 and the X21 in it's present guide ok and now, if people want to go to Newcastle from Stakeford for Bedlington, they use the X22 or if from Newbiggin, get the 35 / 35A and change onto the X20 either in Ashington or North Seaton. Uner 1hr 15 is fine but taking nearly 1hr 20 (1hr 30 at peak times) does take the p**s a bit.
(07 Aug 2015, 3:53 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Oppps, but you get the point? Northumbria ran the X31 ok, Arriva ran the X31 and the X21 in it's present guide ok and now, if people want to go to Newcastle from Stakeford for Bedlington, they use the X22 or if from Newbiggin, get the 35 / 35A and change onto the X20 either in Ashington or North Seaton. Uner 1hr 15 is fine but taking nearly 1hr 20 (1hr 30 at peak times) does take the p**s a bit.
Also I know that people from the west end of Ashingtonp prefer to use the 35 to Morpeth then the express to Newcastle rather than find the nearest X22 stop.
(10 Aug 2015, 12:07 am)coldav wrote [ -> ]Also I know that people from the west end of Ashingtonp prefer to use the 35 to Morpeth then the express to Newcastle rather than find the nearest X22 stop.
Well it's happened like this:
- 2009: Red Meat and X31 / X32 = 4x quick buses ph from Ashington to Newcastle + 1 super fast bus ph.
- 2010: X20, old X21 = 3x quick buses ph from Ashington to Newcastle + 3 super fast buses ph.
- 2011: X20, old X21 = 3x quick buses ph from Newbiggin and Ashington to Newcastle + 1 super fast bus ph from Newbiggin and Ashington to Newcastle.
- 2012: X20 = 1x quick bus ph from Ashington to Newcastle.
To be honest, the X22 isn't the problem and infact, patronage has improved slightly since the 2012 change. The X21 is the main problem and Arriva need to:
- Reroute the X21 past the Hartlands and have the X21 / X22 leaving Ashington at 5/15 intervals but every 10 mins between Bedlington and Newcastle. Another service could serve Nedderton and form part of the Wide Open / Newcastle corridoor
(10 Aug 2015, 3:04 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Well it's happened like this:
- 2009: Red Meat and X31 / X32 = 4x quick buses ph from Ashington to Newcastle + 1 super fast bus ph.
- 2010: X20, old X21 = 3x quick buses ph from Ashington to Newcastle + 3 super fast buses ph.
- 2011: X20, old X21 = 3x quick buses ph from Newbiggin and Ashington to Newcastle + 1 super fast bus ph from Newbiggin and Ashington to Newcastle.
- 2012: X20 = 1x quick bus ph from Ashington to Newcastle.
To be honest, the X22 isn't the problem and infact, patronage has improved slightly since the 2012 change. The X21 is the main problem and Arriva need to:
- Reroute the X21 past the Hartlands and have the X21 / X22 leaving Ashington at 5/15 intervals but every 10 mins between Bedlington and Newcastle. Another service could serve Nedderton and form part of the Wide Open / Newcastle corridoor
The X21 is only 5 minutes slower than it used to be, how can anyone complain about that, really? I mean, if you have to be somewhere, get an earlier bus.
The way I look at it:
X20- A somewhat unreliable service (from my experience), infrequent, quick journey times from Ashington to Newcastle.
X21- Quick journey times from Ashington to Bedlington, quick journey times from Bedlington to Newcastle (30-35 minutes, absolutely nothing to complain about, it's pretty much 25-30 in the car).
X22- Slightly slower between Ashington and Bedlington, emphasis on the slightly. Bedlington to Newcastle in 30 minutes (at peak times, less on evenings and Sundays).
Both the X21 and X22 are generally very reliable services, with quick journey times. The X21 serves the west of Bedlington and Nedderton for a reason, and the fact it has been like that for three years now suggests that it is working. I really don't think you can complain about the X21 route, it's a bus service, something designed with passengers in mind, so while to a certain extent it does need to be relatively quick, that isn't the aim.
How exactly at present are the X21/X22 sold by the company - oh yes, as a service every 10 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle and vice Versa. How exactly does a 5/15 minutes split at Ashington making it more attractive? '6 buses an hour' doesn't sound as marketable as 'every 10 minutes'. This is only a solution if there was an issue - but from what I can see, there is no issue.
And also I hear "fast buses". Most X20 journeys have been empty. This shows the demand for "fast buses"...
(10 Aug 2015, 12:07 am)coldav wrote [ -> ]Also I know that people from the west end of Ashingtonp prefer to use the 35 to Morpeth then the express to Newcastle rather than find the nearest X22 stop.
That seems very unnecessary in my opinion, the X22 journey time from Ashington is well under an hour, similar to the 35 and X14/5/8 combination.
Couple that with the hideous reliability of the Morpeth express services, and the patchy 35 reliability (in my experience), I can't see many advantages to going about it that way. I'm not sure on this, but is it more expensive doing that as well?
Final point, I'd prefer to get a nice bus, with e-leather seating, NSA's, WiFi, sockets etc, than a 15 year old ex-London double decker on the 35, then a unbelievably busy MPD on the X14. Not sure why anyone would prefer the latter?
Well, go on Arriva's page and have a look at the number of complaints back in September 2012 when they first changed the X21. That says it all and it's not just down to the 57 plates, journey times are also a factor.
If the X20 was to do a no show in Ashington (running about 15 minutes late), people would just wait for it because it does the journey in 40 minutes as opposed to 57 minutes. Now, if the X21 was rerouted and the X20 did the same, people would just get the X21 because it would be able to do the journey in 52 minutes as opposed to 57 minutes.
(10 Aug 2015, 6:36 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Well, go on Arriva's page and have a look at the number of complaints back in September 2012 when they first changed the X21. That says it all and it's not just down to the 57 plates, journey times are also a factor.
If the X20 was to do a no show in Ashington (running about 15 minutes late), people would just wait for it because it does the journey in 40 minutes as opposed to 57 minutes. Now, if the X21 was rerouted and the X20 did the same, people would just get the X21 because it would be able to do the journey in 52 minutes as opposed to 57 minutes.
If enough people didn't like it, and complained, Arriva would have changed it in all likelihood.
I think people will know and understand why Arriva send it that way- so that it serves a whole side of a town, including Red House Farm, the Hazelmere estate, and a high school, as well as an entire village in Nedderton.
If I was waiting at Ashington, I'd be straight onto the X21 if the X20 didn't show.
(10 Aug 2015, 7:45 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]If enough people didn't like it, and complained, Arriva would have changed it in all likelihood.
I think people will know and understand why Arriva send it that way- so that it serves a whole side of a town, including Red House Farm, the Hazelmere estate, and a high school, as well as an entire village in Nedderton.
If I was waiting at Ashington, I'd be straight onto the X21 if the X20 didn't show.
If I was waiting in Ashington, I'd also be on the X21 or heading via Morpeth.
The problems with the X21/X22 now is the ridiculous cycle lanes, zebra crossings and council messing around between the Great Park A1 slip road and Barras Bridge, also the Seaton Burn roundabout, Park Road in Ashington for parked cars and resurfacing that doesn't need to happen, congestion in Ashington, oh and those slow 57-reg E400s. Once the new bus station opens in Ashington that'll be 5mins off every journey easy. If ever Newcastle City Council finish prancing around on the GNR then that'll be more improvements.
(10 Aug 2015, 5:35 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]That seems very unnecessary in my opinion, the X22 journey time from Ashington is well under an hour, similar to the 35 and X14/5/8 combination.
Couple that with the hideous reliability of the Morpeth express services, and the patchy 35 reliability (in my experience), I can't see many advantages to going about it that way. I'm not sure on this, but is it more expensive doing that as well?
Final point, I'd prefer to get a nice bus, with e-leather seating, NSA's, WiFi, sockets etc, than a 15 year old ex-London double decker on the 35, then a unbelievably busy MPD on the X14. Not sure why anyone would prefer the latter?
I have heard of it before, I've even resulted in using the X14/5/8 and 35 before. If you have a £7 day ticket which every driver issues on the X21/22 then you can use that on the 35 & Morpeth Xs.
I've just come up with an idea. If Arriva are struggling to source extra DECENT deckers for the X20 and have a good few pulsars spare, here's what I suggest they do. Arriva would need 13 MAX spec pulsars in total (4x for the X20 and a further 9x for my suggestion):
- X20 would continue as it is with no board changes.
- Current X30 would be renumbered X89. No other changes would happen to this service.
- Service 35 between Morpeth and Newbiggin would remain the same but with extra running time to improve reliability during Monday to Saturday daytime. Evening and Sunday journeys would continue to interwork with service X21.
- Service 35a would operate hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Morpeth and Newbiggin Front Street. Buses would then call at the Cresswell Arms with a bit of layover time before changing into service X30 between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as the X20 to Newcastle. Through fares would be available to and from Woodhorn anywhere on the 35a route and through fares onto service X30 would be available anywhere between Sandy Bay and Cresswell Arms. More info about the X30 further down. Extra running time would also be given to service 35A to improve reliability.
- Service 35B would operate hourly Monday to Saturday daytime via the current 35A route. Extra running time would also be given to service 35B to improve reliability.
- Services 35/35A/35B would continue to provide a great 15 minute frequency between Morpeth and Newbiggin Front Street. Services 35A (X30 between Cresswell Arms and Woodhorn) and 35B would continue to provide a 30 minute frequency between Morpeth and Woodhorn albeit a slight timing deviation (every 24-36 minutes) between Newbiggin Front Street and Woodhorn.
- NEW service X30 would operate of 1x 35A board per hour from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms to Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital and then the same route as the X20 from there to Newcastle via Ashington, North Seaton, Regent Centre and Gosforth High Street. Through fares onto service X30 would be available anywhere between Sandy Bay and Cresswell Arms.
Benefits from Service Changes:
- Improved reliability on services 35, 35A, 35B and due to new service X30 helping out, service X20. Improved layover and running time on services 35, 35A and 35B.
- New fast service from Newbiggin to Newcastle and also a new direct service from Woodhorn to Newcastle.
- Increased frequency between Wansbeck Hospital and Newcastle with services X20 and X30 running every 30 minutes combined.
- All journeys on services 35, 35A, 35B, X20 and X30 would operate using MAX spec single deck Pulsars.
Here is an example board (note that the timings haven't been customised to the X20 but it would work out fine):
- Service 35a from Morpeth to Cresswell Arms (00:00/00:45)
- Service X30 from Cresswell Arms to Newcastle (00:48/01:45)
- Service X30 from Newcastle to Cresswell Arms (01:52/02:49)
- Service 35a from Cresswell Arms to Morpeth (02:52/03:37)
- Service 35 from Morpeth to Seacrest Road (03:45/04:30)
- Service 35 from Seacrest Road to Morpeth (04:37/05:22)
- Service 35b from Morpeth to Woodhorn (05:30/06:15)
- Service 35b from Woodhorn to Morpeth (06:22/07:07)
- Service 35 from Morpeth to Seacrest Road (07:15/08:00)
- Service 35 from Seacrest Road to Morpeth (08:07/08:52)
(23 Aug 2015, 2:12 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I've just come up with an idea. If Arriva are struggling to source extra DECENT deckers for the X20 and have a good few pulsars spare, here's what I suggest they do. Arriva would need 13 MAX spec pulsars in total (4x for the X20 and a further 9x for my suggestion):
- X20 would continue as it is with no board changes.
- Current X30 would be renumbered X89. No other changes would happen to this service.
- Service 35 between Morpeth and Newbiggin would remain the same but with extra running time to improve reliability during Monday to Saturday daytime. Evening and Sunday journeys would continue to interwork with service X21.
- Service 35a would operate hourly Monday to Saturday daytime between Morpeth and Newbiggin Front Street. Buses would then call at the Cresswell Arms with a bit of layover time before changing into service X30 between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as the X20 to Newcastle. Through fares would be available to and from Woodhorn anywhere on the 35a route and through fares onto service X30 would be available anywhere between Sandy Bay and Cresswell Arms. More info about the X30 further down. Extra running time would also be given to service 35A to improve reliability.
- Service 35B would operate hourly Monday to Saturday daytime via the current 35A route. Extra running time would also be given to service 35B to improve reliability.
- Services 35/35A/35B would continue to provide a great 15 minute frequency between Morpeth and Newbiggin Front Street. Services 35A (X30 between Cresswell Arms and Woodhorn) and 35B would continue to provide a 30 minute frequency between Morpeth and Woodhorn albeit a slight timing deviation (every 24-36 minutes) between Newbiggin Front Street and Woodhorn.
- NEW service X30 would operate of 1x 35A board per hour from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms to Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital and then the same route as the X20 from there to Newcastle via Ashington, North Seaton, Regent Centre and Gosforth High Street. Through fares onto service X30 would be available anywhere between Sandy Bay and Cresswell Arms.
Benefits from Service Changes:
- Improved reliability on services 35, 35A, 35B and due to new service X30 helping out, service X20. Improved layover and running time on services 35, 35A and 35B.
- New fast service from Newbiggin to Newcastle and also a new direct service from Woodhorn to Newcastle.
- Increased frequency between Wansbeck Hospital and Newcastle with services X20 and X30 running every 30 minutes combined.
- All journeys on services 35, 35A, 35B, X20 and X30 would operate using MAX spec single deck Pulsars.
Here is an example board (note that the timings haven't been customised to the X20 but it would work out fine):
- Service 35a from Morpeth to Cresswell Arms (00:00/00:45)
- Service X30 from Cresswell Arms to Newcastle (00:48/01:45)
- Service X30 from Newcastle to Cresswell Arms (01:52/02:49)
- Service 35a from Cresswell Arms to Morpeth (02:52/03:37)
- Service 35 from Morpeth to Seacrest Road (03:45/04:30)
- Service 35 from Seacrest Road to Morpeth (04:37/05:22)
- Service 35b from Morpeth to Woodhorn (05:30/06:15)
- Service 35b from Woodhorn to Morpeth (06:22/07:07)
- Service 35 from Morpeth to Seacrest Road (07:15/08:00)
- Service 35 from Seacrest Road to Morpeth (08:07/08:52)
Nice to see a change in your ideas, Davey. Although could you explain the logic in renumbering the X30 as the X89? If the X30 is now a new service number, I'd not re-allocate it to an express version of another service.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:43 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]Nice to see a change in your ideas, Davey. Although could you explain the logic in renumbering the X30 as the X89? If the X30 is now a new service number, I'd not re-allocate it to an express version of another service.
I gave the express from Newbiggin to Newcastle an express number to keep it close to the X20. The X89 would make perfect sense from Blyth and Newsham as the Spine Road is called the A189 and the key benefit of the current X30 over the other the X10 / X11 is that it serves the Spine Road rather than Crammy.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:45 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I gave the express from Newbiggin to Newcastle an express number to keep it close to the X20. The X89 would make perfect sense from Blyth and Newsham as the Spine Road is called the A189 and the key benefit of the current X30 over the other the X10 / X11 is that it serves the Spine Road rather than Crammy.
It would make perfect sense to number a service after the last two digits of the road it takes? In that case let's renumber the 21 as the 67.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:47 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]It would make perfect sense to number a service after the last two digits of the road it takes? In that case let's renumber the 21 as the 67.
The number 94 will run in several areas.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:47 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]It would make perfect sense to number a service after the last two digits of the road it takes? In that case let's renumber the 21 as the 67.
Aye, but giving the Newbiggin to Newcastle express a number that isn't common with the X20 wouldn't do either service any favors. X20 / X30 sounds perfect.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:47 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]It would make perfect sense to number a service after the last two digits of the road it takes? In that case let's renumber the 21 as the 67.
It barely runs along the A189 anyway, once it joins the A189 at Moor Farm it turns off at the next turnoff.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:51 pm)GX03 SVC wrote [ -> ]It barely runs along the A189 anyway, once it joins the A189 at Moor Farm it turns off at the next turnoff.
That's like the 10/11 they are on the A1300 for one stretch of road.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:47 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]It would make perfect sense to number a service after the last two digits of the road it takes? In that case let's renumber the 21 as the 67.
Well Arriva did renumber the X14 as the X66 as it runs along the A66.
(23 Aug 2015, 5:53 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Well Arriva did renumber the X14 as the X66 as it runs along the A66.
There are many more up and down the country.
The X62 between Hull and Leeds jumps out. Although it is Stagecoach.
There was also the short lived X19 to Doxford Park. Which was Arriva.