[
attachment=10499]
(02 Jun 2023, 11:38 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Would a Bishop Auckland or Spennymoor to Teesside (Hartlepool, Billingham, Stockton or Middlesbrough) express-ish service see any passenger usage.
If it was from Spennymoor it could serve any combination of Coxhoe, Kelloe, Trimdon, Deaf Hill, etc...
If it was from Bishop it could serve any combination of Coundon, Chilton, Ferryhill, Sedgefield, Fishburn, Wynyard, etc...
Bit like these or mabe the 69?
(02 Jun 2023, 11:38 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Would a Bishop Auckland or Spennymoor to Teesside (Hartlepool, Billingham, Stockton or Middlesbrough) express-ish service see any passenger usage.
If it was from Spennymoor it could serve any combination of Coxhoe, Kelloe, Trimdon, Deaf Hill, etc...
If it was from Bishop it could serve any combination of Coundon, Chilton, Ferryhill, Sedgefield, Fishburn, Wynyard, etc...
The best chance would probably be like the old x14 or a new service from bishop to Middlesbrough via coundon, chilton, Sedgefield, perhaps wynard or wolviston, billingham and then going down the a19 and a66 fo Middlesbrough bus station
(02 Jun 2023, 11:38 am)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Would a Bishop Auckland or Spennymoor to Teesside (Hartlepool, Billingham, Stockton or Middlesbrough) express-ish service see any passenger usage.
If it was from Spennymoor it could serve any combination of Coxhoe, Kelloe, Trimdon, Deaf Hill, etc...
If it was from Bishop it could serve any combination of Coundon, Chilton, Ferryhill, Sedgefield, Fishburn, Wynyard, etc...
Can't see it, the X14 from Bishop Auckland is long gone with the OK1 also falling foul (although the Middlesbrough extension didn't last long). Given that Arriva is cutting much of the services that covered those links over the years, it's kinda telling of numbers although saying that, many of the links have been severed over the years making even just getting to some of the nearest towns/villages more hassle than its worth to even attempt.
(02 Jun 2023, 5:51 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Can't see it, the X14 from Bishop Auckland is long gone with the OK1 also falling foul (although the Middlesbrough extension didn't last long). Given that Arriva is cutting much of the services that covered those links over the years, it's kinda telling of numbers although saying that, many of the links have been severed over the years making even just getting to some of the nearest towns/villages more hassle than its worth to even attempt.
Firstly which route did the X14 take, i've never heard of it.
Secondly, if an independent decided to run their own commerical services would anyone use them.
(02 Jun 2023, 8:06 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Firstly which route did the X14 take, i've never heard of it.
Secondly, if an independent decided to run their own commerical services would anyone use them.
This timetable could be a little more descriptive than the one I posted yesterday
I remembered in the 90’s that the X14 got extended from Middlesbrough to Sunderland, I remembered seeing the coach at Park Lane bus station , can’t remember though if it replaced the 214 at the time as the extension was short lived before been cancelled and the 214 came back, others might know what year the x14 extension to Sunderland started
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(03 Jun 2023, 5:29 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I remembered in the 90’s that the X14 got extended from Middlesbrough to Sunderland, I remembered seeing the coach at Park Lane bus station , can’t remember though if it replaced the 214 at the time as the extension was short lived before been cancelled and the 214 came back, others might know what year the x14 extension to Sunderland started
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Maybe a different X14? The X14 we've been on about was from Bishop Auckland to Saltburn. Then for whatever reason they changed it to run X14 Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough then the Middlesbrough to Saltburn section as X4. Same coach, same driver, throughfares etc.
Was it not the 217 that ran Bishop Auckland to Sunderland?
(03 Jun 2023, 6:04 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Maybe a different X14? The X14 we've been on about was from Bishop Auckland to Saltburn. Then for whatever reason they changed it to run X14 Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough then the Middlesbrough to Saltburn section as X4. Same coach, same driver, throughfares etc.
Was it not the 217 that ran Bishop Auckland to Sunderland?
Used the DAF/Plaxton Prima coaches, dual-branded for both the X4 & X14
As on
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45726467@N02/11268277654/
(03 Jun 2023, 6:04 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Maybe a different X14? The X14 we've been on about was from Bishop Auckland to Saltburn. Then for whatever reason they changed it to run X14 Bishop Auckland to Middlesbrough then the Middlesbrough to Saltburn section as X4. Same coach, same driver, throughfares etc.
Was it not the 217 that ran Bishop Auckland to Sunderland?
Nah wasn’t the 217, I remember getting the United lynx’s on the 217, this X14 was in the days of United , well before Arriva days
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(03 Jun 2023, 7:43 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Nah wasn’t the 217, I remember getting the United lynx’s on the 217, this X14 was in the days of United , well before Arriva days
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is this the same 217 than ran from Sunderland to Ferryhill via Houghton operated by scarlet band at one point?
(03 Jun 2023, 5:21 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]This timetable could be a little more descriptive than the one I posted yesterday
Would that be faster than sending a bus alongside the A689 and A19.
(03 Jun 2023, 7:43 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Nah wasn’t the 217, I remember getting the United lynx’s on the 217, this X14 was in the days of United , well before Arriva days
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Turns out it was both the 215 and 217
(03 Jun 2023, 9:12 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Is this the same 217 than ran from Sunderland to Ferryhill via Houghton operated by scarlet band at one point?
Would that be faster than sending a bus alongside the A689 and A19.
Doing that your kind of looking at end point to end point customers... who will use the train which will inevitably be quicker reagardless of how express the express bus is. It would need to go round at least some of the houses to stand any chance. Maybe through Shildon, Newton Aycliffe and Sedgefield.
(03 Jun 2023, 7:43 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Nah wasn’t the 217, I remember getting the United lynx’s on the 217, this X14 was in the days of United , well before Arriva days
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The X 14 did get extended to Sunderland from Middlesbrough but it was only short lived
(04 Jun 2023, 1:22 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]Doing that your kind of looking at end point to end point customers... who will use the train which will inevitably be quicker reagardless of how express the express bus is. It would need to go round at least some of the houses to stand any chance. Maybe through Shildon, Newton Aycliffe and Sedgefield.
My plan would have been Bishop, South Church, Coundon, Chilton, Sedgefield, Wynyard, Wolviston, The Fens, Seaton Carew and then Hartlepool with a sister service potentally serving Spennymoor, Thinford, Coxhoe, Trimdon, Trimdon Station, Deaf Hill & Sheraton. If going to Middlesborough maybe go though Billingham and Portrack Lane.
(02 Jun 2023, 8:06 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Firstly which route did the X14 take, i've never heard of it.
Secondly, if an independent decided to run their own commerical services would anyone use them.
It would probably be hard to do as northern only charges £10.90 for bishop to saltburn, knowing fares on other arriva routes it'd end up being £8-9 maybe more for the longer bus, and it's not like a service like that will run more than every hour so it'd be hard to compete
(05 Jun 2023, 12:20 am)Countydurhambuses wrote [ -> ]It would probably be hard to do as northern only charges £10.90 for bishop to saltburn, knowing fares on other arriva routes it'd end up being £8-9 maybe more for the longer bus, and it's not like a service like that will run more than every hour so it'd be hard to compete
As usual that assumes you live within walking distance of Bishop station, and want to go somewhere within walking distance of another station on the line. Since I don't fancy a half an our walk to the trains station, that adds another £2.50-£3 on to the price of the train ticket.
(05 Jun 2023, 12:20 am)Countydurhambuses wrote [ -> ]It would probably be hard to do as northern only charges £10.90 for bishop to saltburn, knowing fares on other arriva routes it'd end up being £8-9 maybe more for the longer bus, and it's not like a service like that will run more than every hour so it'd be hard to compete
It only costs £9 for an Arriva North East regionwide day ticket so highly unlikely to cost more than £9 for a single trip
I think it could be wise to reintroduce the X16, or at least look to retime the current Morpeth express services.
The X18 tended to be very busy anyway, but as it stands currently there is a 30 minute gap before it. So while the X14/15 have another service taking the pressure off it to Morpeth/Newcastle 15 minutes beforehand, the popular X18 has nothing to take any pressure off it and so gets consistently slammed.
Given the 2 now serves Kirkhill again, it would be possible to extend the X16 to either Stobhill or up to Lancaster Park and the new housing developments around Northgate in the spare 20 mins or so between trips. Given the £2/£2.50 singles are in place for a while yet, it seems like an ideal time to test the waters and grow the market - especially considering passenger numbers on the 3 remaining services seem as strong as/stronger than they were pre-Covid (particularly the X14!).
(15 Jul 2023, 8:11 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I think it could be wise to reintroduce the X16, or at least look to retime the current Morpeth express services.
The X18 tended to be very busy anyway, but as it stands currently there is a 30 minute gap before it. So while the X14/15 have another service taking the pressure off it to Morpeth/Newcastle 15 minutes beforehand, the popular X18 has nothing to take any pressure off it and so gets consistently slammed.
Given the 2 now serves Kirkhill again, it would be possible to extend the X16 to either Stobhill or up to Lancaster Park and the new housing developments around Northgate in the spare 20 mins or so between trips. Given the £2/£2.50 singles are in place for a while yet, it seems like an ideal time to test the waters and grow the market - especially considering passenger numbers on the 3 remaining services seem as strong as/stronger than they were pre-Covid (particularly the X14!).
Or what they could do in Morpeth is:
X16 returns as its original route from Newcastle-Kirkhill
2 withdrawn via Kirkhill and retimed to operate every 20 minutes Between Morpeth & Blyth and could also have it interworking with the 35
Could also put the 1 every 20 minutes on the blyth-wansbeck hospital section too (obviously with the 1 trip an hour to Widdrington) so that the 1/2 are on their pre covid timetable
(15 Jul 2023, 8:52 pm)EastCoastMXZ1751 wrote [ -> ]Or what they could do in Morpeth is:
X16 returns as its original route from Newcastle-Kirkhill
2 withdrawn via Kirkhill and retimed to operate every 20 minutes Between Morpeth & Blyth and could also have it interworking with the 35
Could also put the 1 every 20 minutes on the blyth-wansbeck hospital section too (obviously with the 1 trip an hour to Widdrington) so that the 1/2 are on their pre covid timetable
It's a 90 minute round trip from Blyth to Morpeth excluding any layover, so you'd need to add another bus into the 2 timetable to have it back to every 20 minutes between Blyth and Morpeth.
The 1/2 were increased in capacity (now full conventional) versus pre-Covid, which balances the frequency reduction. I believe the PVR was 10 on the old 20 minute frequency on both routes, it's now 8. Both routes are very strong in terms of passenger numbers, but I'd see the resolution to that being some boards being decker operated rather than putting more buses into the PVR.
(15 Jul 2023, 8:52 pm)EastCoastMXZ1751 wrote [ -> ]Or what they could do in Morpeth is:
X16 returns as its original route from Newcastle-Kirkhill
2 withdrawn via Kirkhill and retimed to operate every 20 minutes Between Morpeth & Blyth and could also have it interworking with the 35
Could also put the 1 every 20 minutes on the blyth-wansbeck hospital section too (obviously with the 1 trip an hour to Widdrington) so that the 1/2 are on their pre covid timetable
The 1 and 2 don't really need to be every 20 minutes now though since they had an upgrade from sheds. The 35 100% needs Deckers on certain boards though.
Can't comment much on the Morpeth expresses but either a Widdrington short, or taking over the 417 would be the best bet imo.
I don't know what the answer is with the 57/57A but they badly need another bus added to the PVR, even if it meant giving them each 75 minutes to get from Ashington to Whitley Bay (Every 30 minutes, Cramlington to Ashington) as an extension and the 57A omitting High Pit and running direct from Annitsford. The reliability is an absolute shambles lately and it can't recover as it's too long and it's not helped by certain buses either.
(15 Jul 2023, 9:13 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I don't know what the answer is with the 57/57A but they badly need another bus added to the PVR, even if it meant giving them each 75 minutes to get from Ashington to Whitley Bay as an extension and the 57A omitting High Pitt and running direct from Annitsford. The reliability is an absolute shambles lately and it can't recover as it's too long.
Capacity also needs looked at on the 57. I've heard multiple reports recently of Solos heading to Cramlington from Ashington/Bedlington with standing loads, and I don't even believe that's usually considered the strongest section of the route?
I'd look at extending the 57A fully to Ashington, if resource allowed, to provide a combined 30 minute frequency between Ashington and Cramlington. I believe, if you cut down the layover at Ashington to 4 minutes, it would be doable with just one extra bus, as follows:
57:
Ashington dep 09:02
Whitley arr 10:10
57A:
Whitley dep: 10:15
Ashington arr: 11:28
57A:
Ashington dep: 11:32
Whitley arr: 12:45
57:
Whitley dep: 12:50
Ashington arr: 13:58
(15 Jul 2023, 9:13 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Can't comment much on the Morpeth expresses but either a Widdrington short, or taking over the 417 would be the best bet imo.
Tbh I think the old Widdrington short would be unnecessary given the X20 now serves Widdrington compared to when the old 518s existed.
I think incorporating the current 417 would be the best bet, and would also likely get them funding from NCC?
(15 Jul 2023, 9:29 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Capacity also needs looked at on the 57. I've heard multiple reports recently of Solos heading to Cramlington from Ashington/Bedlington with standing loads, and I don't even believe that's usually considered the strongest section of the route?
I'd look at extending the 57A fully to Ashington, if resource allowed, to provide a combined 30 minute frequency between Ashington and Cramlington. I believe, if you cut down the layover at Ashington to 4 minutes, it would be doable with just one extra bus, as follows:
57:
Ashington dep 09:02
Whitley arr 10:10
57A:
Whitley dep: 10:15
Ashington arr: 11:28
57A:
Ashington dep: 11:32
Whitley arr: 12:45
57:
Whitley dep: 12:50
Ashington arr: 13:58
Yeah believe it's the Monkseaton area which is generally the busiest, the only thing I'd do is reroute the the 57A, to try and get it to roughly an equal time to the 57. There's no real lost links bar the section on the West of Cramlington but they have the X8 anyway
[
attachment=10531]
Would give it a bit more layover, Seghill has the 19 to get to High Pit nowadays so no real lost links and would speed it up for Seghill passengers. The 19 runs roughly 2 minutes in front of the 57A now anyway and would give an Arriva service in Fern Drive since they've pulled out for people who rely on the 43/X8.
Mind capacity wise I wouldn't be surprised if they just binned the sheds soon, they're more hassle than they're worth especially now since 2856 seems to be restricted to the 35 for whatever reason and 2855 has already been scrapped.
(15 Jul 2023, 9:39 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah believe it's the Monkseaton area which is generally the busiest, the only thing I'd do is reroute the the 57A, to try and get it to roughly an equal time to the 57. There's no real lost links bar the section on the West of Cramlington but they have the X8 anyway
Would give it a bit more layover, Seghill has the 19 to get to High Pit nowadays so no real lost links and would speed it up for Seghill passengers. The 19 runs roughly 2 minutes in front of the 57A now anyway and would give an Arriva service in Fern Drive since they've pulled out for people who rely on the 43/X8.
Mind capacity wise I wouldn't be surprised if they just binned the sheds soon, they're more hassle than they're worth especially now since 2856 seems to be restricted to the 35 for whatever reason and 2855 has already been scrapped.
If you're running the 57A through to Ashington then I don't think it's as essential to increase layover given increased opportunity for regulation. I think some of the current issues are due to loadings anyway, which would improve with an increased frequency.
I believe 2855 was engine failure, but yeah I don't see them going much longer, especially with full size single decks being freed up.
(15 Jul 2023, 9:54 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]If you're running the 57A through to Ashington then I don't think it's as essential to increase layover given increased opportunity for regulation. I think some of the current issues are due to loadings anyway, which would improve with an increased frequency.
I believe 2855 was engine failure, but yeah I don't see them going much longer, especially with full size single decks being freed up.
Yeah that's true, it was more about trying to get an even service heading South though tbf. It's quite a pain currently having the current 25/35 service.
(I'm the South end of the route
and the detour from Annitsford through Northumberland Business Park, to see Cramlington in the distance, to then double back on the A1171 when it's not needed anymore. The A1171 is a traffic blackspot at peaks aswell). Obviously I don't know the loadings but can't imagine there's many on the short section near the Black Horse heading towards the Whitley Bay.
(15 Jul 2023, 9:59 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah that's true, it was more about trying to get an even service heading South though tbf. It's quite a pain currently having the current 25/35 service.
(I'm the South end of the route and the detour from Annitsford through Northumerland Business Park, to see Cramlington in the distance, to then double back on the A1171 when it's not needed anymore. The A1171 is a traffic blackspot at peaks aswell.
That's fair enough, I do think it's one of those routes that can probably do quite well if given the resources.
Realistically, it:
- Hits several key employment sites (including NSECH, Nelson Industrial Estate, Jubilee Industrial Estate, industry around Dudley/Annitsford).
- Passes through 3 of the largest towns in SE Northumberland.
- Serves Manor Walks & associated restaurants and cinema.
- Is the best way to Whitley Bay from Cramlington (essentially takes the route you'd drive in the car).
- Serves several schools.
- Is the only meaningful route through Monkseaton.
(15 Jul 2023, 10:19 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]That's fair enough, I do think it's one of those routes that can probably do quite well if given the resources.
Realistically, it:- Hits several key employment sites (including NSECH, Nelson Industrial Estate, Jubilee Industrial Estate, industry around Dudley/Annitsford).
- Passes through 3 of the largest towns in SE Northumberland.
- Serves Manor Walks & associated restaurants and cinema.
- Is the best way to Whitley Bay from Cramlington (essentially takes the route you'd drive in the car).
- Serves several schools.
- Is the only meaningful route through Monkseaton.
Yeah totally agreed, especially now that it's the only real frequent service heading South from Cramlington which isn't Newcastle.
I know I'm probably going into the depth of too far but if they did up it upto every 30 minutes, wonder if there's ever scope of extending it South so you'd end up with something like:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beach+...?entry=ttu
Means you terminate the 306 back at Tynemouth as 3 BPH between Whitley and Tynemouth on a horse shoe of a route is just overkill imo. Would open new connections from SE Northumberland down to Tynemouth and I think in the Summer months could be quite popular in particular.
Not sure how possible it would be with a PVR 6, should be doable though.
(16 Jul 2023, 8:37 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah totally agreed, especially now that it's the only real frequent service heading South from Cramlington which isn't Newcastle.
I know I'm probably going into the depth of too far but if they did up it upto every 30 minutes, wonder if there's ever scope of extending it South so you'd end up with something like:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Beach+...?entry=ttu
Means you terminate the 306 back at Tynemouth as 3 BPH between Whitley and Tynemouth on a horse shoe of a route is just overkill imo. Would open new connections from SE Northumberland down to Tynemouth and I think in the Summer months could be quite popular in particular.
Not sure how possible it would be with a PVR 6, should be doable though.
I think it's one of a few routes that, if managed properly, has a decent chunk of potential growth in it. There are also loads of potential different passenger flows, it isn't just about getting from starting point to terminus with nothing along the way, it's set up for some to do A to C, B to D, A to D etc.
It would just about be doable, but they'd both be standalone with PVRs of 3, as follows:
57:
Ashington 09:02
Whitley Bay: 10:10
Tynemouth: 10:24
Tynemouth: 10:31
Whitley Bay: 10:45
Ashington: 11:53
57A:
Ashington: 09:32
Whitley Bay: 10:45
Tynemouth: 10:59
Tynemouth: 11:01
Whitley Bay: 11:15
Ashington: 12:28
That's using current 306 timings between Whitley Bay and Tynemouth. I'm not too sure how popular it would be on the Whitley Bay to Tynemouth section outside of peak summer time though, and it might get a tad confusing with the 57A terminating at North Shields on evenings/Sundays too?
Resources wise, it would also be less efficient as it would require a driver changeover on every round trip, whereas with the suggestion yesterday you could do a full 2 trip cycle (57 to Whitley Bay/57A to Ashington/57A to Whitley Bay/57 to Ashington) and still have 30 mins of driving time to play with. The Tynemouth extension would take 2 trips to near enough 6 hours.
(16 Jul 2023, 4:05 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I think it's one of a few routes that, if managed properly, has a decent chunk of potential growth in it. There are also loads of potential different passenger flows, it isn't just about getting from starting point to terminus with nothing along the way, it's set up for some to do A to C, B to D, A to D etc.
It would just about be doable, but they'd both be standalone with PVRs of 3, as follows:
57:
Ashington 09:02
Whitley Bay: 10:10
Tynemouth: 10:24
Tynemouth: 10:31
Whitley Bay: 10:45
Ashington: 11:53
57A:
Ashington: 09:32
Whitley Bay: 10:45
Tynemouth: 10:59
Tynemouth: 11:01
Whitley Bay: 11:15
Ashington: 12:28
That's using current 306 timings between Whitley Bay and Tynemouth. I'm not too sure how popular it would be on the Whitley Bay to Tynemouth section outside of peak summer time though, and it might get a tad confusing with the 57A terminating at North Shields on evenings/Sundays too?
Resources wise, it would also be less efficient as it would require a driver changeover on every round trip, whereas with the suggestion yesterday you could do a full 2 trip cycle (57 to Whitley Bay/57A to Ashington/57A to Whitley Bay/57 to Ashington) and still have 30 mins of driving time to play with. The Tynemouth extension would take 2 trips to near enough 6 hours.
Aye must admit I did think about the resource issue and thought it might be an issue and it can't really interwork with anything as there's nothing to interwork with. Suppose it won't be any more quiet than the current 306 though and would reduce the resources along there and give Monkseaton connections to Preston Grange Morrisons, whether they want it who knows.
I suppose the evening services could just be extended to Tynemouth though instead, why it even still goes to North Shields is a mystery to me when Nexus has been cutting routes, left, right and centre. It arguably would be better heading North to Bedlington or even offer a 30 minute service between Seaton Delaval and Whitley Bay, there's enough time to do it (self interests there mind).
With the GNE strike amd the recent sale of Arriva and talk of future expansion, now would be a good time to 'dip feet in water'
How about a service from Durham depot similar to GNE 50 but possibly a version of the old X50.
Durham to South Shields
Durham to Chester all stops
Chester to Washington non stop
Washington to Boldon Asda limited stop via Follingsby Park
Boldon Asda to South Shields limited Stop via Whiteleas Bridge, South Tyneside Hospital and Westoe