(22 Sep 2020, 1:24 pm)solsburian wrote [ -> ]A few years back, and with my councillor hat on, I did discuss the feasibility along with the local county councillor about direct services to between Seaton Valley and Killingworth with one of the transport officers at NCC. While he agreed there would likely be some demand, he was wary of the potential impact it would have on the 57/57a as it would likely abstract away shoppers going to Cramlington to Killingworth instead. A potential example of the Butterfly effect I guess.
Yeah it's probably a valid point though tbf, it'll be mostly pensioners using it and they're pretty much the ones using it to Cramlington most the time really.
(22 Sep 2020, 4:38 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Would there be any demand to send a service to Wallsend, if you found a way to incorporate other peoples ideas as well
Where from Seaton Valley? If so, not really tbh. Nothing at Wallsend for us really, the locals are more likely to choose Cramlington, Whitley Bay, Blyth, Monkseaton Sainsbury's or Newcastle which would be closer and have more there (no offence to Wallsend) and we have the 57 to the Metro then Metro from there which would be likely as quick anyway. NT Hospital is the big one though from pensioners and taking the 363/X4/X7 off Tillmouth Avenue.
(22 Sep 2020, 5:56 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah it's probably a valid point though tbf, it'll be mostly pensioners using it and they're pretty much the ones using it to Cramlington most the time really.
Don't get me wrong I would like to see it someday (along with the resurrection of the X36, one can dream), perhaps as a "Seaton Valley Circular" between Blyth, Cramlington and Killingworth (and perhaps Whitley Bay). That is probably enough blue sky thinking for the day though.
Extend 553 to Blyth. I'll leave the route up the arriva regulars.
(22 Sep 2020, 7:04 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Extend 553 to Blyth. I'll leave the route up the arriva regulars.
Honestly if I was going extend the 553 I'd look at going the opposite way such as
https://goo.gl/maps/V4xFvAitRstP6Aov8.
It gives Red House Farm a new link to Kingston Park, gives the new housing estate with no bus links at all a bus and Broadway West another service other than the 33A plus new links to the Freeman and more links to Asda at Gosforth and Kingston Park from other places without a change even known it's a bit long winded.
(22 Sep 2020, 5:56 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah it's probably a valid point though tbf, it'll be mostly pensioners using it and they're pretty much the ones using it to Cramlington most the time really.
Where from Seaton Valley? If so, not really tbh. Nothing at Wallsend for us really, the locals are more likely to choose Cramlington, Whitley Bay, Blyth, Monkseaton Sainsbury's or Newcastle which would be closer and have more there (no offence to Wallsend) and we have the 57 to the Metro then Metro from there which would be likely as quick anyway. NT Hospital is the big one though from pensioners and taking the 363/X4/X7 off Tillmouth Avenue.
Could the 316/318 routes be feasable with modifactions (to NT Hospital, Whitley, etc...) Anybody use them at the time?
(22 Sep 2020, 10:37 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Could the 316/318 routes be feasable with modifactions (to NT Hospital, Whitley, etc...) Anybody use them at the time?
I can't see them being too popular from Delaval's perspective as we have the 19 or X7 which are both quicker the only really new link is Newsham you might pick up a few from Seghill wanting to go to the Metro though.
The 318 is very similar to the 19 aswell which is heavily subsidised North of Northumberland Park so it probably gives an idea of the numbers.
The 2 routes route here if you want something to play around with are the 58 which is hopeless and carries fresh air and maybe an extension to the short 57A somewhere.
Across the border in North Tyneside you've got the W1, W2, W3, 51 (shorts) and 59 you could easily play around with as they're all heavily subsidised as they just don't work and usually carry fresh air aswell.
(23 Sep 2020, 6:47 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]I can't see them being too popular from Delaval's perspective as we have the 19 or X7 which are both quicker the only really new link is Newsham you might pick up a few from Seghill wanting to go to the Metro though.
The 318 is very similar to the 19 aswell which is heavily subsidised North of Northumberland Park so it probably gives an idea of the numbers.
The 2 routes route here if you want something to play around with are the 58 which is hopeless and carries fresh air and maybe an extension to the short 57A somewhere.
Across the border in North Tyneside you've got the W1, W2, W3, 51 (shorts) and 359 you could easily play around with as they're all heavily subsidised as they just don't work and usually carry fresh air aswell.
There's probably something on here that may be of use:
https://web.archive.org/web/200407222213...les.co.uk/
Was thinking about the GNE X11 this morning and other routes or areas of the NE that could be exploited this summer.
Looking at North Northumberland, up to Seahouses, you could realistically add 2 to the PVR of the X18 and X20 (1 per route, to be honest only really a PVR increase of 1 over the usual summer) to achieve the following:
X18 up to Berwick every 2 hours as per 2019.
X20 up to Seahouses ever 2 hours (northbound dep Alnwick xx:35, arr Seahouses xx:34, dep Seahouses xx:36, arr Alnwick xx:35)
Gives a combined Alnwick to Seahouses frequency of every hour (unevenly split). Opens up an easy avenue up the coast for those living in Ashington, Ellington, Lynemouth and the caravan parks around that area. Equally gives a better option for the hop on hop off day tickets up there for people who want to do so.
I'd hope they also look at bringing back the every 20 minutes X93 between Whitby and S'Boro.
(09 Mar 2021, 4:15 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Was thinking about the GNE X11 this morning and other routes or areas of the NE that could be exploited this summer.
Looking at North Northumberland, up to Seahouses, you could realistically add 2 to the PVR of the X18 and X20 (1 per route, to be honest only really a PVR increase of 1 over the usual summer) to achieve the following:
X18 up to Berwick every 2 hours as per 2019.
X20 up to Seahouses ever 2 hours (northbound dep Alnwick xx:35, arr Seahouses xx:34, dep Seahouses xx:36, arr Alnwick xx:35)
Gives a combined Alnwick to Seahouses frequency of every hour (unevenly split). Opens up an easy avenue up the coast for those living in Ashington, Ellington, Lynemouth and the caravan parks around that area. Equally gives a better option for the hop on hop off day tickets up there for people who want to do so.
I'd hope they also look at bringing back the every 20 minutes X93 between Whitby and S'Boro.
Isn't there the 418 which runs in between the X18 runs to do a bus every hour service up there already between Alnwick and Belford.
I don't disagree with the hourly runs up there but I'd say run the X15 shorts up instead of the X20. It's almost 40 minutes quicker between Newcastle and Alnwick and is a big difference when making a long journey all the way upto Seahouses.
I know there's some on here who enjoy riding around the world on buses but 3 hours is too long for the majority of people but I'd be tempted to do something like
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.60776...d6!1m0!3e0 and give a much quicker service up to Bamburgh instead every 2 hours rather than an uneven hourly service from Amble etc. I tried to jam Craster in but it takes too long.
(09 Mar 2021, 5:08 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Isn't there the 418 which runs in between the X18 runs to do a bus every hour service up there already between Alnwick and Belford.
I don't disagree with the hourly runs up there but I'd say run the X15 shorts up instead of the X20. It's almost 40 minutes quicker between Newcastle and Alnwick and is a big difference when making a long journey all the way upto Seahouses.
I know there's some on here who enjoy riding around the world on buses but 3 hours is too long for the majority of people but I'd be tempted to do something like https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.60776...d6!1m0!3e0 and give a much quicker service up to Bamburgh instead every 2 hours rather than an uneven hourly service from Amble etc. I tried to jam Craster in but it takes too long.
Yeah there is the 418, but I believe it still uses Solos - not ideal for the loads you'd hope to get (or have the potential to).
I had thought about running the X15 shorts up, but then you'd miss out on a direct journey from Ashington/Ellington/Lynemouth and some of the caravan parks around there, for the sake of Felton and Shilbottle? If done properly you'd ensure a connection from the X15s onto the Berwick X18s at Alnwick. My initial suggestion was more to target villages and towns up the coast than to target the Newcastle section anyway, so from Ashington north the most you'd be on the bus for would be 2 hours which is similar to the X93.
I tried to think of a way to find the time to get the X20 suggestion to Bamburgh, I think as you've shown on that link the only way to really do it is miss out Craster, but then that's potentially one of the main places you'd want to send it? By my reckoning you'd need to find approximately 20 minutes, and there's nowhere along the route where you could realistically cut if you're wanting to promote the coast. Even omitting the Craster section would only gain about 14 minutes.
Edit: I do like your way out of Alnwick. I've often thought that with a bit of creative thinking it would be great to find a way to serve the entrance to the Gardens directly and market the hell out of it. Folk going in cars seeing a double decker stopping outside during the summer on a reasonably frequent service would likely think about it for their next visit, especially if they live on the route. Most X18s that don't extend to Berwick have 8 minutes layover at Alnwick Bus Station, if we assume it's a 5 minute diversion to the Gardens then it is certainly doable.
(09 Mar 2021, 5:30 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Yeah there is the 418, but I believe it still uses Solos - not ideal for the loads you'd hope to get (or have the potential to).
I had thought about running the X15 shorts up, but then you'd miss out on a direct journey from Ashington/Ellington/Lynemouth and some of the caravan parks around there, for the sake of Felton and Shilbottle? If done properly you'd ensure a connection from the X15s onto the Berwick X18s at Alnwick. My initial suggestion was more to target villages and towns up the coast than to target the Newcastle section anyway, so from Ashington north the most you'd be on the bus for would be 2 hours which is similar to the X93.
I tried to think of a way to find the time to get the X20 suggestion to Bamburgh, I think as you've shown on that link the only way to really do it is miss out Craster, but then that's potentially one of the main places you'd want to send it? By my reckoning you'd need to find approximately 20 minutes, and there's nowhere along the route where you could realistically cut if you're wanting to promote the coast. Even omitting the Craster section would only gain about 14 minutes.
Edit: I do like your way out of Alnwick. I've often thought that with a bit of creative thinking it would be great to find a way to serve the entrance to the Gardens directly and market the hell out of it. Folk going in cars seeing a double decker stopping outside during the summer on a reasonably frequent service would likely think about it for their next visit, especially if they live on the route. Most X18s that don't extend to Berwick have 8 minutes layover at Alnwick Bus Station, if we assume it's a 5 minute diversion to the Gardens then it is certainly doable.
You know you make an interesting point there but a different option would be keep my quick X15 as the 'fast' bus upto North Northumberland. Then change the southern section and flip the X18 and X20 around, with the X20 being extended to Berwick.
The X20 arguable is the better Coast bus anyway as it serves more of Amble, and it serves the Caravan parks like you mentioned, the X18 doesn't really serve anything unless your trying to get prisoners on days trips up the Coast. Your opening loads of new links, Ashington / Lynemouth to all of North Northumberland for example but also a bus from Ashington to Berwick even known it's a bit slow whereas the X18 lost links would be mostly be covered by the X15 anyway excluding Ulgham and Pegswood.
You could easily reroute the X15 (the current one) to go out my way out of Alnwick aswell btw and just got up the A1 instead tbh. There's no bus stops between the top end of Alnwick and the A1 anyway so it's just wasting time. Massive seller imo having, 'Catch the X15 direct from Morpeth/Newcastle to Alnwick Gardens hourly' rather than the X18.
Then any new buses would be for the premium X15 (if they ever come), with the current Enviro's doing the less harsh X18 / X20.
Anyway of doing something with the X14
(09 Mar 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]You know you make an interesting point there but a different option would be keep my quick X15 as the 'fast' bus upto North Northumberland. Then change the southern section and flip the X18 and X20 around, with the X20 being extended to Berwick.
The X20 arguable is the better Coast bus anyway as it serves more of Amble, and it serves the Caravan parks like you mentioned, the X18 doesn't really serve anything unless your trying to get prisoners on days trips up the Coast. Your opening loads of new links, Ashington / Lynemouth to all of North Northumberland for example but also a bus from Ashington to Berwick even known it's a bit slow whereas the X18 lost links would be mostly be covered by the X15 anyway excluding Ulgham and Pegswood.
Then any new buses would be for the premium X15 (if they ever come), with the current Enviro's doing the less harsh X18 / X20.
The flip is interesting. Thinking about it the only real place to be disadvantaged would be Acklington and Pegswood, but I don't think that people either of those would be making many journeys north of Alnwick?
I think any new buses all need to be the same spec and branding so they can all be used flexibly. The problem at the moment is that too much work is being done by the newer vehicles since the older stuff is all shot, you really need to even that out and the best way to do that is to buy a batch to cover all the Alnwick routes to even out the workload.
(09 Mar 2021, 7:23 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]The flip is interesting. Thinking about it the only real place to be disadvantaged would be Acklington and Pegswood, but I don't think that people either of those would be making many journeys north of Alnwick?
I think any new buses all need to be the same spec and branding so they can all be used flexibly. The problem at the moment is that too much work is being done by the newer vehicles since the older stuff is all shot, you really need to even that out and the best way to do that is to buy a batch to cover all the Alnwick routes to even out the workload.
It's all I can think of tbh, and those from Pegswood it's probably just as quick to hop on the 35 and change to the X15 anyway. Guessing it's from legacy routes of the 420/20 terminating at Ashington.
Oh definitely, I just meant to have the newer ones ones on the X15 as it's the hardest route. Then have the 14 plates on the the other routes. Heck if you terminated the X18 at Alnwick, you could probably get away with having singles on if your trying to push more people onto the X20.
(09 Mar 2021, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's all I can think of tbh, and those from Pegswood it's probably just as quick to hop on the 35 and change to the X15 anyway. Guessing it's from legacy routes of the 420/20 terminating at Ashington.
Oh definitely, I just meant to have the newer ones ones on the X15 as it's the hardest route. Then have the 14 plates on the the other routes. Heck if you terminated the X18 at Alnwick, you could probably get away with having singles on if your trying to push more people onto the X20.
I think my suggestion, vehicle wise, for the Alnwick/Thropton routes would be something along the lines of the following:
X14: Heavy duty single decks (i.e B8RLE, new WrightBus integral single deck, 6-cyl E200 MMC)
X15: E400 MMCs. Preferably Scania powered, though new Cummins powered ones will be more than fine if ZF coupled.
X16: Heavy duty single decks (same as X14)
X18: E400 MMCs, again preferably Scania.
X20: E400 MMCs.
You'd have to sort out the scholars board that one of the X14 boards does in the afternoon, but I'm sure you could find something somewhere for that. Generally the X14 is absolutely fine with single decks, as is the X16. If you get heavy duty stuff it offers more flexibility if you need to quickly sling one onto the X15 due to late running or a failure - Streetlites on the X15 are horrendous. As part of this you'd also move the X16 across to Ashington, again to improve operational flexibility as well as cutting dead mileage.
(09 Mar 2021, 11:53 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]I think my suggestion, vehicle wise, for the Alnwick/Thropton routes would be something along the lines of the following:
X14: Heavy duty single decks (i.e B8RLE, new WrightBus integral single deck, 6-cyl E200 MMC)
X15: E400 MMCs. Preferably Scania powered, though new Cummins powered ones will be more than fine if ZF coupled.
X16: Heavy duty single decks (same as X14)
X18: E400 MMCs, again preferably Scania.
X20: E400 MMCs.
You'd have to sort out the scholars board that one of the X14 boards does in the afternoon, but I'm sure you could find something somewhere for that. Generally the X14 is absolutely fine with single decks, as is the X16. If you get heavy duty stuff it offers more flexibility if you need to quickly sling one onto the X15 due to late running or a failure - Streetlites on the X15 are horrendous. As part of this you'd also move the X16 across to Ashington, again to improve operational flexibility as well as cutting dead mileage.
Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.
Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.
(10 Mar 2021, 12:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.
Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.
I'm told reasonably reliably that certain X15 journeys now (well, pre-Covid), would struggle with a coach in terms of loading - with deckers being reasonably full. I'm possibly wrong on the specifics, but I believe one such trip is the 0653 from Alnwick which can take a decent load into Newcastle. I'd love to see coaches but I think it's unrealistic anyway with Arriva, though they possibly wouldn't make sense anyway with loads.
I've seen virtually all of the Alnwick runs (X15/18/20) take full seated loads in and out of Newcastle in the past, so I think they realistically need deckers for flexibility if nothing else. I've never seen an X16 need anything more than a Pulsar, and I think I've seen an X14 fill a single decker on a few occassions (tends to be if the Alnwick express before it is running late).
The 685, however... I'd hope Arriva realise with all routes currently operated by Scanias that they really need heavy duty replacements, though I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.
Isn't the X16 a Jesmond route dur to 1499 being on it a few times
(10 Mar 2021, 12:14 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.
Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.
I'm not convinced you'd even be able to suitably accommodate coaches at Morpeth Bus Station in particular the electronic ramps many coaches have these days may not have the space to be used on the conventional stands, don't know what the dedicated long distance stand is like for space.
The X14 is a weird one for what to use as I've often had not particularly high loadings on it but at other times you can end up with pretty much a full seated loading on an E400.
Not sure on having coaches on 685 again as more tends to be used in parts rather than the full route although you do get some that will do a full journey to/from Carlisle for a jolly, part of me would like to see it go decker operated but it's only required for the school loadings most of the time.
Having travelled on these routes many times, I would prefer double deckers. They are much better for tourist type routes for the views; the views from the top deck along the coast from Warkworth to Alnwick on the X18/X20 of Alnmouth and the river are excellent. Likewise for the coast around Seahouses, Bamburgh, Holy Island.