North East Buses

(22 Feb 2014, 10:22 am)Tom wrote [ -> ]Yeah, so regardless those buses are free, hopefully to go on the M2/M3.

Possibly Stagecoach and Arriva are fighting for it too! Hope Go North East get it though.

After the problems stagecoach has with those horrid yellow things, not sure they would bid, they need to be Euro 5?, not sure where the buses would come from.

GNE already have them on their.


I agree before anymore streetlites are ordered they need to sort out the problems they having... iv'e not seen alll of them out together on the drifter since they arrived.

Also think Solo SR's will replace most of the remaining darts

(22 Feb 2014, 10:25 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]After the problems stagecoach has with those horrid yellow things, not sure they would bid, they need to be Euro 5?, not sure where the buses would come from.

GNE already have them on their.


I agree before anymore streetlites are ordered they need to sort out the problems they having... iv'e not seen alll of them out together on the drifter since they arrived.

Also think Solo SR's will replace most of the remaining darts

If the Orbit and Simplicity did get upgraded to new and longer Versas, then these could replace all North Tyne Links MPD's, some East Durham MPD's (other would be replaced with new Solos) and also 5219-6 on the ''LOOP''.

555-559 and that horrid 8293 at Hexham could be replaced by new Solo's too.

(22 Feb 2014, 10:28 am)Tom wrote [ -> ]If the Orbit and Simplicity did get upgraded to new and longer Versas, then these could replace all North Tyne Links MPD's, some East Durham MPD's (other would be replaced with new Solos) and also 5219-6 on the ''LOOP''.

555-559 and that horrid 8293 at Hexham could be replaced by new Solo's too.

I still think the 61 shouldn't be branded Simplicity - For me the brand should of being... 38,39,42 - with rest spares.

If the Simplicity does get new buses in 2015... Then i would include the 29,38,39 and 42 (if their all running by them numbers by then)

(22 Feb 2014, 10:42 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]I still think the 61 shouldn't be branded Simplicity - For me the brand should of being... 38,39,42 - with rest spares.

If the Simplicity does get new buses in 2015... Then i would include the 29,38,39 and 42 (if their all running by them numbers by then)

I've said this before 61 a murton route is in County Durham it's not a city service whereas 38 39 and 42 are!!!!

(22 Feb 2014, 10:45 am)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]I've said this before 61 a murton route is in County Durham it's not a city service whereas 38 39 and 42 are!!!!

It's not, really Simplicity is a Sunderland brand.. should stick to Sunderland boundaries... so 29,38,39 and 42... if new buses get ordered

(21 Feb 2014, 9:18 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]A long time away, but this is what I think the 2015 orders will be...

4 X Optare Versa - ''Sunderland Connect'', freeing up the current Solos for use on the 5, replacing 8242-6.

20 X Mercedes Citaro - ''Coaster'' and ''Cobalt Connect'', freeing up 5243-6/5251-2/5261-72, with 5243-6 for use on the ''Lambton Worm''(replacing 8303-6 for use on the ''East Durham'' services 202/208/265, replacing various MPD's), 5251-2 for use on the 71 (replacing 2 X B10BLE), 5261-65 for use on the Waggonway (replacing 5 X Wright Solar to replace various B7TL/B10BLE's), 5266-71 for the X25 (replacing B10BLE's/ELC's) and 5272 spare at Chester-le-Street replacing a ELC.

7 X Unknown for ''Tyne Tees Xpress'' - Freeing up 3963/6043-8 for use on the ''Pronto'' (replacing B7TL vehicles)

8 X Optare Versa for ''LOOP'' - Freeing up 5219-26 (replacing various buses)

33 X Optare Solo SR - Replacing all ''Tynedale Links'' (555-559 and 8293), ''North Tyne Links'' (548-551/553-554/562/566-569) and ''East Durham'' (535-546/560/564-565/573-574/618-619) - One spare at each depot. East Durham would also use Optare Versa on busier journeys.

The newer MPD's (603-606/618-9) would replace spare MPD's at Riverside/Deptford:

603-6 would replace 542/544/561 at Deptford, 603/4 destined for the 99, 605/6 would be a spare. 618/9 would transfer to Riverside for the S1 (Merit 8266 would replace a B10BLE, helping to reach the target) and 27X/40A, replacing 547.

Providing Nexus were assisting with the cost of the vehicles again (as I believe they did with 629/630 (?)), I'd assume that they would contribute towards an additional vehicle for the 700's PVR of 3 and the 701's PVR of 1, as well as having one vehicle spare - though Go North East would probably have to pay for the spare as it'd be down to operational convenience.

I honestly don't think the Cobalt Connect is worthy of investment. Let's think of how many journeys are secured. If you've been on the Cobalt Connect, you'll know how few passengers actually travel between Cramlington and Ashington. They essentially carry air.
I don't know what to make of the Coaster. If it was to receive investment, I think it would be Mercs as you've pointed out... The livery re-design suggested to me that they'd be on there for another few years yet though.

The Pronto is likely to receive a full set of the same vehicle type rather than a mixture. 3963 is likely to become a 'red spare' in the near future, rather than a branded vehicle. Whether this is by cascades or by investment, I don't know.

The Loop certainly wouldn't justify investment. Not at all. It's a service for Saltmeadows drivers and Gateshead College students, with the occasional single fare and concessionary pass.

As for the Solo SRs... I really don't think that some of the services held within those brand networks can justify the cost of new vehicles. Touching on a few points regarding Hexham... They already have a branded spare MPD (the PVR is 4, and they have 5 vehicles), and 8293's replacement has to be a full sized single decker (just like 8228's had to be).

(22 Feb 2014, 1:06 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]If streetlites could be a viable option could they not be purchased for the simplicity group (42/61/39) & Orbit 51/52, and also with a rumoured upgrade on QuayLink. This allows then 33 Versas to be freed up, 17 for East Durham, 11 NTL, 5 South Tyne 5.
I'd think if any service, out of those MPD/Low Cost services, M2/M3 could probably justify new vehicles outright. 5 Versas could be bought for 700/701 to allow the 4 Solo to go onto W4/W5.
I'd then suggest upgraded Red Arrows to new vehicles, allowing 7 B9's to go onto Pronto, 3 onto angel (giving 1 spare and displacing B7's), 1 B9 goes onto Tyne Tees Xpress (allowing them to have 7 branded vehicles all B9's). This then creates spare deckers to displace older ones and withdrawn remaing Olympians.

Replacing the 2011-born Versas (SimpliCity = 10, Orbit = 9) may be a good idea, though I question whether it would be good to do it in 2015 or 2016, given that I feel MPD replacement hasn't been a 'top priority' (X-reg MPDs should have been withdrawn in 2012, not 2013). We know that, no matter what, the "QuayLink" examples are going to be freed up - I've suggested that the current plan is for them to go to Washington for services M2/M3, assuming that the current midi-sized vehicle "trial" (if you want to treat it like that) is successful.

Nevertheless, 19 Versas to play around with... I'm not including the plain purple batch...
For a PVR of 12, I think that 14 Versas (losing one spare as the newer vehicles should be more reliable) could go to Peterlee. There are a number of services which run quite empty, but there are also a number of them which could justify a cascaded Versa. Deptford require 2 MPDs for the 238 and I'd assume like for like replacements and give them 3 for good measure. Crook require 2 MPDs for the 18, and I'd replace these likewise also - accounting for your 19 Versas.

We know that the "South Tyne" branded Cadets on the 5 are being replaced this year. We've been told that those vehicles are going to be withdrawn.

As for the cascades of the 700, you'd be allocating two different vehicle types (Hybrid vs non-Hybrid) again. I think they'll be retained for use on Nexus contracts.

(22 Feb 2014, 10:20 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]Got to remember that's if GNE win the contract for the Quaylink... they could still loose it.... means the buses on their don't have to be replaced and it free's up 9 versa's.....not sure if anyone else would bid

I do think it'll be a contractual requirement for eco-friendly vehicles this time around. A simple Euro regulation won't suffice, if you ask me.

(21 Feb 2014, 9:28 pm)Davey Bowyer wrote [ -> ]Hmm.. I'd definitely say the Coaster has a good change but if the 27 gets upgraded to deckers, they might end up on the Coaster.

There's a high chance that service 35 will be upgraded to deckers and will then in turn leave quite a few citarios which could go onto Lime services (8/78).

(22 Feb 2014, 11:11 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]There's a high chance that service 35 will be upgraded to deckers and will then in turn leave quite a few citarios which could go onto Lime services (8/78).

The "Lime" is in line to receive brand new Citaros this year.

It has been suggested in the past that the Citaros from the "Laser" will go to the Prince Bishops.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:03 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Providing Nexus were assisting with the cost of the vehicles again (as I believe they did with 629/630 (?)), I'd assume that they would contribute towards an additional vehicle for the 700's PVR of 3 and the 701's PVR of 1, as well as having one vehicle spare - though Go North East would probably have to pay for the spare as it'd be down to operational convenience.

I honestly don't think the Cobalt Connect is worthy of investment. Let's think of how many journeys are secured. If you've been on the Cobalt Connect, you'll know how few passengers actually travel between Cramlington and Ashington. They essentially carry air.
I don't know what to make of the Coaster. If it was to receive investment, I think it would be Mercs as you've pointed out... The livery re-design suggested to me that they'd be on there for another few years yet though.

The Pronto is likely to receive a full set of the same vehicle type rather than a mixture. 3963 is likely to become a 'red spare' in the near future, rather than a branded vehicle. Whether this is by cascades or by investment, I don't know.

The Loop certainly wouldn't justify investment. Not at all. It's a service for Saltmeadows drivers and Gateshead College students, with the occasional single fare and concessionary pass.

As for the Solo SRs... I really don't think that some of the services held within those brand networks can justify the cost of new vehicles. Touching on a few points regarding Hexham... They already have a branded spare MPD (the PVR is 4, and they have 5 vehicles), and 8293's replacement has to be a full sized single decker (just like 8228's had to be).


Replacing the 2011-born Versas (SimpliCity = 10, Orbit = 9) may be a good idea, though I question whether it would be good to do it in 2015 or 2016, given that I feel MPD replacement hasn't been a 'top priority' (X-reg MPDs should have been withdrawn in 2012, not 2013). We know that, no matter what, the "QuayLink" examples are going to be freed up - I've suggested that the current plan is for them to go to Washington for services M2/M3, assuming that the current midi-sized vehicle "trial" (if you want to treat it like that) is successful.

Nevertheless, 19 Versas to play around with... I'm not including the plain purple batch...
For a PVR of 12, I think that 14 Versas (losing one spare as the newer vehicles should be more reliable) could go to Peterlee. There are a number of services which run quite empty, but there are also a number of them which could justify a cascaded Versa. Deptford require 2 MPDs for the 238 and I'd assume like for like replacements and give them 3 for good measure. Crook require 2 MPDs for the 18, and I'd replace these likewise also - accounting for your 19 Versas.

We know that the "South Tyne" branded Cadets on the 5 are being replaced this year. We've been told that those vehicles are going to be withdrawn.

As for the cascades of the 700, you'd be allocating two different vehicle types (Hybrid vs non-Hybrid) again. I think they'll be retained for use on Nexus contracts.


I do think it'll be a contractual requirement for eco-friendly vehicles this time around. A simple Euro regulation won't suffice, if you ask me.

I agree, hence I pointed out that four ''Crusader'' mercs could transfer for the ''Cobalt Connect''. The 19 is only really busy at peak times beyond Cramlington, through the day it's usually only a few passengers beyond Cramlington. I still think Mercs would be suitable for the 19, and encourage more passengers to use the service in the Northumberland areas. This would have a good effect on withdrawing B10BLE's too, as 5251/2 from the Coaster would replace B10BLE's on the 71, 5243-6 Versas (therefore replacing MPD's), 5261-5 would replace Solars which would then replace B10BLE's and 5266-71 could replace Solars/Lolynes on the X25, and also helping to replace MPD's.

If the Simplicity and Orbit were to receive investment, I think some would go to Percy Main for the North Tyne Links, Peterlee for East Durham and Riverside for LOOP. A significant amount of MPD's could be withdrawn as a result of this, and B10BLE's as a result of a upgrade to the ''LOOP'', whether this be in 2015 or 2016...

And I forgot that 8293's replacement has to be a full sized single decker, because of the H11/H53. If the ''LOOP'' recives the Versa's I suggested, 5226 could transfer to replace that piece of crap.

''Sunderland Connect'' should defiantly get Versas. Where the remaining Solos go, I don't know, but I do think the 5. 603-6 don't need to be replaced for a while yet, and seem to be coping well on the W5/W6. It doesn't really justify anything bigger than a MPD in my opinion, unless the frequency was reduced to hourly on each service, which I doubt would happen.

If the M2/M3 does get a upgrade, I'd like to see a brand, something similar to the ''Washington Street Shuttle'', as I did like that brand.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:13 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The "Lime" is in line to receive brand new Citaros this year.

It has been suggested in the past that the Citaros from the "Laser" will go to the Prince Bishops.

I thought the Prince Bishop buses also Fast Cats buses are to be modified just like the Loop buses etc..., which would rule out of any new or cascades buses going to those 2 routes, are the modifications been cashed by Durham County Council and Sunderland Council for those 2 specific routes to make it more greener?.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:23 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I thought the Prince Bishop buses also Fast Cats buses are to be modified just like the Loop buses etc..., which would rule out of any new or cascades buses going to those 2 routes, are the modifications been cashed by Durham County Council and Sunderland Council for those 2 specific routes to make it more greener?.

Modifying them to be Euro 5, correct... Citaros are also Euro 5 though, so I'd see no issue with the Prince Bishops being allocated Citaros.

I'd agree with Dan that MPD replacements need to be a priority. NorthTyne Links need replacements as does TyneDale Links, East Durham, OK Way & W5/W6, there's also the 99/27X which are MPD routes now also. I'm unsure of what PVR of East Durham is? I thought it was 13 with 1 spare (Plus they've gained an additional spare recently giving 15). 16/17 therefore required for East Durham, 11 NorthTyne Links, 5 TyneDale Links, 2 OK Way, 4 W5/W6, 2 99, 1 27X. That's 41/42 MPD replacements. Quite a lot and don't know how GNE will manage this by 2016 let alone 2015!

Then what ever gets the Prince Bishops buses they will be Euro 5 - Wonder if then they could be branded for a different service instead of going to a spare role.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:29 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]I'd agree with Dan that MPD replacements need to be a priority. NorthTyne Links need replacements as does TyneDale Links, East Durham, OK Way & W5/W6, there's also the 99/27X which are MPD routes now also. I'm unsure of what PVR of East Durham is? I thought it was 13 with 1 spare (Plus they've gained an additional spare recently giving 15). 16/17 therefore required for East Durham, 11 NorthTyne Links, 5 TyneDale Links, 2 OK Way, 4 W5/W6, 2 99, 1 27X. That's 41/42 MPD replacements. Quite a lot and don't know how GNE will manage this by 2016 let alone 2015!

Some of the 2003 MPD's are actually very nice, so 570-74 might not need to be replaced...

(22 Feb 2014, 11:29 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]I'd agree with Dan that MPD replacements need to be a priority. NorthTyne Links need replacements as does TyneDale Links, East Durham, OK Way & W5/W6, there's also the 99/27X which are MPD routes now also. I'm unsure of what PVR of East Durham is? I thought it was 13 with 1 spare (Plus they've gained an additional spare recently giving 15). 16/17 therefore required for East Durham, 11 NorthTyne Links, 5 TyneDale Links, 2 OK Way, 4 W5/W6, 2 99, 1 27X. That's 41/42 MPD replacements. Quite a lot and don't know how GNE will manage this by 2016 let alone 2015!

in 2015 make sure all 45 are in the order's or if other routes get new buses make sure what ever is getting cascaded will end up on the MPD routes

(22 Feb 2014, 11:29 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]I'd agree with Dan that MPD replacements need to be a priority. NorthTyne Links need replacements as does TyneDale Links, East Durham, OK Way & W5/W6, there's also the 99/27X which are MPD routes now also. I'm unsure of what PVR of East Durham is? I thought it was 13 with 1 spare (Plus they've gained an additional spare recently giving 15). 16/17 therefore required for East Durham, 11 NorthTyne Links, 5 TyneDale Links, 2 OK Way, 4 W5/W6, 2 99, 1 27X. That's 41/42 MPD replacements. Quite a lot and don't know how GNE will manage this by 2016 let alone 2015!

I gave the PVR of the East Durham network in my post above... The PVR of the East Durham network based at Peterlee is 12, and the PVR of service 238 is 2. Peterlee currently have 15 branded vehicles and Deptford currently have 3 branded vehicles. Realistically, Go North East aim to have one spare vehicle for every 8 branded - I don't think it's irrational to suggest that having one spare at Deptford and two spares at Peterlee if they were to be upgraded to Versas though. Newer vehicles are of greater quality and are therefore more reliable.

603-606 (services W5/W6) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2016, and 618/619 (East Durham) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2017. As I said before, I don't think Go North East have treated MPD withdrawal as a 'top priority' - so we could perhaps add an extra year onto their expected life span - as is the case with all of the other MPDs in the fleet.

I'd expect that the North Tyne Links batch would be replaced by the current "Nexus" liveried Solos. These would in turn be replaced by Euro 6 examples, allowing Go North East to go for more contracts and look better than their competitors in the tender process.

Providing Go North East keep all of the tendered Hexham work, I'd suggest that new vehicles (Solo SRs) could be on order here too.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:32 am)Tom wrote [ -> ]Some of the 2003 MPD's are actually very nice, so 570-74 might not need to be replaced...

It's really not to do with the ride quality though, it's down to numbers. They were purchased with a date of withdrawal of 2015 in mind - they've been paid for now, and they can go. If they stay for much longer, they are increasing the average age of the fleet.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:40 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]I gave the PVR of the East Durham network in my post above... The PVR of the East Durham network based at Peterlee is 12, and the PVR of service 238 is 2. Peterlee currently have 15 branded vehicles and Deptford currently have 3 branded vehicles. Realistically, Go North East aim to have one spare vehicle for every 8 branded - I don't think it's irrational to suggest that having one spare at Deptford and two spares at Peterlee if they were to be upgraded to Versas though. Newer vehicles are of greater quality and are therefore more reliable.

603-606 (services W5/W6) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2016, and 618/619 (East Durham) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2017. As I said before, I don't think Go North East have treated MPD withdrawal as a 'top priority' - so we could perhaps add an extra year onto their expected life span - as is the case with all of the other MPDs in the fleet.

I'd expect that the North Tyne Links batch would be replaced by the current "Nexus" liveried Solos. These would in turn be replaced by Euro 6 examples, allowing Go North East to go for more contracts and look better than their competitors in the tender process.

Providing Go North East keep all of the tendered Hexham work, I'd suggest that new vehicles (Solo SRs) could be on order here too.

Deptford don't have a branded East Durham spare and I don't think they need one either. 618/619 til 2017 my good that's a scary thought!

(22 Feb 2014, 11:51 am)CatsFast101 wrote [ -> ]Deptford don't have a branded East Durham spare and I don't think they need one either. 618/619 til 2017 my good that's a scary thought!

542 is Deptford's allocated spare (poor wording on my half for saying 'branded spare') for the 238. It's plain yellow to allow for greater flexibility with allocations (it can go on the 99 when not needed on the 238).

Nothing wrong with 618/619! Enjoyed (as much as you can enjoy, when it comes to an MPD...) many a ride on both of them on the 689

(22 Feb 2014, 11:40 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]I gave the PVR of the East Durham network in my post above... The PVR of the East Durham network based at Peterlee is 12, and the PVR of service 238 is 2. Peterlee currently have 15 branded vehicles and Deptford currently have 3 branded vehicles. Realistically, Go North East aim to have one spare vehicle for every 8 branded - I don't think it's irrational to suggest that having one spare at Deptford and two spares at Peterlee if they were to be upgraded to Versas though. Newer vehicles are of greater quality and are therefore more reliable.

603-606 (services W5/W6) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2016, and 618/619 (East Durham) are not expected to be withdrawn until 2017. As I said before, I don't think Go North East have treated MPD withdrawal as a 'top priority' - so we could perhaps add an extra year onto their expected life span - as is the case with all of the other MPDs in the fleet.

I'd expect that the North Tyne Links batch would be replaced by the current "Nexus" liveried Solos. These would in turn be replaced by Euro 6 examples, allowing Go North East to go for more contracts and look better than their competitors in the tender process.

Providing Go North East keep all of the tendered Hexham work, I'd suggest that new vehicles (Solo SRs) could be on order here too.


It's really not to do with the ride quality though, it's down to numbers. They were purchased with a date of withdrawal of 2015 in mind - they've been paid for now, and they can go. If they stay for much longer, they are increasing the average age of the fleet.

I did suggest that last week, as the North Tyne Links services don't really need Versa's, only at peak times.

(22 Feb 2014, 11:53 am)Tom wrote [ -> ]I did suggest that last week, as the North Tyne Links services don't really need Versa's, only at peak times.

I believe the PVR of the North Tyne Links network is 9 and there are currently 11 branded vehicles. There are currently 12 "Nexus" branded vehicles.

As the Solo SRs should be more reliable, 10 going to Percy Main for the "North Tyne Links" network should be fine, while 2 could go elsewhere... I'm not sure where would be best to place these two vehicles, but there are obviously a number of locations where they could go, including 2x Solo SR at Deptford for service 99 or 1x Solo SR at Riverside for service S1 and 1x Solo SR at Saltmeadows for service 27X. The latter sounding more apt to me! I assume that the QEH shuttle will soon cease to exist, but I have no idea on how long it's expected to last.