It seems like they are in no hurry to reapply Pronto vinyls on the front of one of the Pronto branded President's, so I'm wondering if this could potentially be a sign that the X21 may get investment soon.
Im sure that when the Quaylink goes commercial they are getting new buses which then Percy Main might be getting the Optare Versas for the 17/17A. (Not confirmed)
(27 Feb 2015, 6:21 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]It seems like they are in no hurry to reapply Pronto vinyls on the front of one of the Pronto branded President's, so I'm wondering if this could potentially be a sign that the X21 may get investment soon.
I don't think GNE will upgrade the X21 until a suitable heavyweight decker is out there on the market or an existing B9 service justifies an upgrade. I know lightweight deckers are good initially but what about in 7 years time? GNE have stuck with heavyweight deckers (except the Angel) for the past 4 years now and nothing major has gone wrong with any of them. What you've got to remember also is that with no turbo on a Cummins Unit when it fails, the Horsepower would only be at roughly 150-200 bhp and that would cause problems. I've got nothing against Cummins engined vehicles but I don't like them for demanding work whatever the setup.
(27 Feb 2015, 10:16 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I don't think GNE will upgrade the X21 until a suitable heavyweight decker is out there on the market or an existing B9 service justifies an upgrade. I know lightweight deckers are good initially but what about in 7 years time? GNE have stuck with heavyweight deckers (except the Angel) for the past 4 years now and nothing major has gone wrong with any of them. What you've got to remember also is that with no turbo on a Cummins Unit when it fails, the Horsepower would only be at roughly 150-200 bhp and that would cause problems. I've got nothing against Cummins engined vehicles but I don't like them for demanding work whatever the setup.
Out of interest, as I have no idea how engines work (well in any detail anyway), how often do/likely is it for, a turbo to fail?
(27 Feb 2015, 10:31 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Out of interest, as I have no idea how engines work (well in any detail anyway), how often do/likely is it for, a turbo to fail?
Well judging by the 57 plate E400 examples at Ashington, normally before 7 years. Look at the state of Washington's B9 Geminis 6001 - 6007 (Jul 2011 first service and always been on the X1) then look at the state of Blyth's and Belmont's Cummins Engined VDL Gemini deckers (first service Jan 2012 mostly for the 308 then only used on X10 / X11 after March / April 2013). That says it all basically.
(27 Feb 2015, 11:06 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]Well judging by the 57 plate E400 examples at Ashington, normally before 7 years. Look at the state of Washington's B9 Geminis 6001 - 6007 (Jul 2011 first service and always been on the X1) then look at the state of Blyth's and Belmont's Cummins Engined VDL Gemini deckers (first service Jan 2012 mostly for the 308 then only used on X10 / X11 after March / April 2013). That says it all basically.
Ah okay
Without this turning into a "how stuff works" bit, would you be able to briefly explain what they do, and why it's bad if they break? Tried to look at Wikipedia but that just confused me
cheers
(27 Feb 2015, 10:16 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I don't think GNE will upgrade the X21 until a suitable heavyweight decker is out there on the market or an existing B9 service justifies an upgrade. I know lightweight deckers are good initially but what about in 7 years time? GNE have stuck with heavyweight deckers (except the Angel) for the past 4 years now and nothing major has gone wrong with any of them. What you've got to remember also is that with no turbo on a Cummins Unit when it fails, the Horsepower would only be at roughly 150-200 bhp and that would cause problems. I've got nothing against Cummins engined vehicles but I don't like them for demanding work whatever the setup.
I think GNE would rather go for this option than have 7 more years of breakdowns with the B7s (or however long it may be) before a suitable heavyweight vehicle is out there...
(28 Feb 2015, 10:13 am)Robert wrote [ -> ]I think GNE would rather go for this option than have 7 more years of breakdowns with the B7s (or however long it may be) before a suitable heavyweight vehicle is out there...
But a heavyweight vehicle bar a few lecky and build issues, would have no major trouble. Several of the 61 reg DB300 deckers at Blyth and Belmont have had engine trouble and the haven't been always used on express work but the 7x 11 reg B9s at Washington have dealt with a more demanding route (about the same length as the X21 / X22 between Newcastle and Ashington) and have suffered from no issies often with full loads between Newcastle and Galleries combined with rough driving to keep the service running as close to time as possible.
(28 Feb 2015, 12:33 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]But a heavyweight vehicle bar a few lecky and build issues, would have no major trouble. Several of the 61 reg DB300 deckers at Blyth and Belmont have had engine trouble and the haven't been always used on express work but the 7x 11 reg B9s at Washington have dealt with a more demanding route (about the same length as the X21 / X22 between Newcastle and Ashington) and have suffered from no issies often with full loads between Newcastle and Galleries combined with rough driving to keep the service running as close to time as possible.
Heavyweight buses are the past, Euro emission levels are best met with a smaller heavier engine hence the lightweight chassis - so they still meet TfL regulations.
(28 Feb 2015, 1:21 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]What has TfL got to do with buses in the North East or any other part of the country for that matter?
Nothing, as long as they meet Euro 6. Heavyweight deckers should still be around for Euro 6 becuase it looks like Scania will still be offering a 9 litre 250bhp engine on the E400 MMC bodywork. Stagecoach would probably buy for demanding routes and so would NCT consider it too.
If GNE were to invest in new buses for the Coaster, do you think E400 MMCs remapped to cope with the hills would be justified or do you think that single deckers are more suited?
(01 Mar 2015, 10:58 am)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]If GNE were to invest in new buses for the Coaster, do you think E400 MMCs remapped to cope with the hills would be justified or do you think that single deckers are more suited?
I'd imagine that the next step up for the "Coaster" services would be double deckers - whether it be cascades or new vehicles. Especially during summer, they do get quite full, and it'd help keep things running smoothly when the Metro encounters an issue! Problem is that, outside of peak times and/or summer, single deckers are more suited.
Would like to see a full double decker allocation to "Coaster" service 1, "Prince Bishops" services 20/20A, "Crusader" service 27, "Diamond" services 43/44 and the former "West Durham Swift" X30/X31 and X70/X71 services, but I'm not sure if this will happen any time in the near future, especially with the threat of Quality Contracts ahead of us.
(01 Mar 2015, 10:58 am)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]If GNE were to invest in new buses for the Coaster, do you think E400 MMCs remapped to cope with the hills would be justified or do you think that single deckers are more suited?
I think it would depend on passenger numbers, as i live in Sunderland, i'm not sure on how well it does but i think the current Coaster brand only suits Single deckers, i think the brand wouldn't be as good if it got deckers.
I still think it will be the Crusader and Pronto for deckers...Like i said before, least that Horrid Crusader brand can go!
I think there's another service but i'm not sure what!
(01 Mar 2015, 11:04 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]I'd imagine that the next step up for the "Coaster" services would be double deckers - whether it be cascades or new vehicles. Especially during summer, they do get quite full, and it'd help keep things running smoothly when the Metro encounters an issue! Problem is that, outside of peak times and/or summer, single deckers are more suited.
Would like to see a full double decker allocation to "Coaster" service 1, "Prince Bishops" services 20/20A, "Crusader" service 27, "Diamond" services 43/44 and the former "West Durham Swift" X30/X31 and X70/X71 services, but I'm not sure if this will happen any time in the near future, especially with the threat of Quality Contracts ahead of us.
I don't think it would be cascades. If GNE wanted to continue with shortfalls, they could use 6001-6007 and 6049-6055 but, the next natural progression role for them would be to upgrade the Pronto and provide reliable spares to existing B9 services and if all goes well with the flybrid wheels on the CC and Fab 56, make up the PVR on the Angel.
(01 Mar 2015, 12:45 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote [ -> ]I don't think it would be cascades. If GNE wanted to continue with shortfalls, they could use 6001-6007 and 6049-6055 but, the next natural progression role for them would be to upgrade the Pronto and provide reliable spares to existing B9 services and if all goes well with the flybrid wheels on the CC and Fab 56, make up the PVR on the Angel.
You're desperate to get rid of the B9s on the X1 aren't you!
(01 Mar 2015, 12:58 pm)aureolin wrote [ -> ]You're desperate to get rid of the B9s on the X1 aren't you!
That's why i think Citaro should just tell him whats happening with the double decker order...
(01 Mar 2015, 1:09 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]That's why i think Citaro should just tell him whats happening with the double decker order...
Will the double deckers be arriving at a similar time to the Streetlite's?
(01 Mar 2015, 1:40 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Will the double deckers be arriving at a similar time to the Streetlite's?
No idea, i would imagine, the deckers will probables be after the Streetlites.
Citaro is the best person to answer it. =)
(01 Mar 2015, 1:54 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]No idea, i would imagine, the deckers will probables be after the Streetlites.
Citaro is the best person to answer it. =)
Thats if they are getting any deckers this year. If they do i can only imagine it will be for a service like the Pronto. Surely the priority for this years orders is to get rid of all non-DDA single deckers (ie. the renowns) and focus on deckers next year.
I think for this year Pronto should receive investment, I think it will too.
Fab57 needs new buses, whether this will be cascades remains to be seen.
I think we might see another MPD displacement so East Durham or North Tyne Links (Remember 238 is already been operated by solos)