North East Buses

Don't GCT use Ticketer machines?
I'd imagine it would be relatively simple for them to set up contactless payments, so I'd imagine it's purely down to the ~2-3% transaction fee that they're not taking them.

First 82 of the day, and the incorrect route taken in Barley Mow, missing out bus stops.

One of which someone was at.

First two days and we’ve had a no-show, and three take an incorrect route.

(18 May 2020, 8:01 pm)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]First 82 of the day, and the incorrect route taken in Barley Mow, missing out bus stops.

One of which someone was at.

First two days and we’ve had a no-show, and three take an incorrect route.

Not to be funny, but did you honestly expect it to be any different?

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(18 May 2020, 7:22 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]If the company doesn't provide a float but are required to give change, then shouldn't they be sourcing their own? I know many well-prepared drivers at larger operators tend to provide their own float, over and above the company allocated float.

GNE drivers get £20 as you know, I tend to carry £5-£10 extra depending on how much I've been dipping into it at the coffee machine [emoji16]

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(18 May 2020, 8:03 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Not to be funny, but did you honestly expect it to be any different?

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No I didn’t. But what different should that make to a regular passenger.

Try telling that to Val stood at the bus stop waiting for it.

So, not to be funny, but the service should be reliable regardless.

(18 May 2020, 8:14 pm)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]No I didn’t. But what different should that make to a regular passenger.

Try telling that to Val stood at the bus stop waiting for it.

So, not to be funny, but the service should be reliable regardless.

Exactly my point. The fact is GCT are well known for doing this time and time again, and yet they keep getting awarded contracts.

Either Nexus really don't care about passengers, or there's some backroom dealings going on, and the cynic in me suspects it's probably a mixture of the two

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(18 May 2020, 7:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Don't GCT use Ticketer machines?
I'd imagine it would be relatively simple for them to set up contactless payments, so I'd imagine it's purely down to the ~2-3% transaction fee that they're not taking them.

Haven't been on one of their buses in a while but it's likely they may have the Ticketer machines that don't facilitate contactless payments.

(18 May 2020, 8:25 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Haven't been on one of their buses in a while but it's likely they may have the Ticketer machines that don't facilitate contactless payments.

I thought all Ticketer machines were smart card/contactless enabled

(18 May 2020, 8:40 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I thought all Ticketer machines were smart card/contactless enabled

They can scan concession passes and the like but not Contactless (the one's I'm talking about).

(18 May 2020, 7:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Don't GCT use Ticketer machines?
I'd imagine it would be relatively simple for them to set up contactless payments, so I'd imagine it's purely down to the ~2-3% transaction fee that they're not taking them.

correct.

(18 May 2020, 8:52 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]They can scan concession passes and the like but not Contactless (the one's I'm talking about).

The technology between the two is the same, so 'in theory' it would just be a software upgrade rather than a hardware limitation

(18 May 2020, 7:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Don't GCT use Ticketer machines?
I'd imagine it would be relatively simple for them to set up contactless payments, so I'd imagine it's purely down to the ~2-3% transaction fee that they're not taking them.

(18 May 2020, 8:53 pm)park5354 wrote [ -> ]correct.

Just goes to show how Nexus are so far removed from the outside world.  In today's world where contactless payments are the norm across all aspects of paying for goods and services, surely this should be in the spec for the tender.

(19 May 2020, 6:32 am)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Just goes to show how Nexus are so far removed from the outside world.  In today's world where contactless payments are the norm across all aspects of paying for goods and services, surely this should be in the spec for the tender.

That 2/3% could make the difference between GCT running the service and making enough to get by or the margins being so tight, that it's not viable and they need to change their operating model. 
All of a sudden, they're going to be putting in similar bids to the bigger boys - which then defeats the point of the tendering process. 

I'm not GCT's biggest fan at all, but admire what they have achieved over a pretty short space of time. They do things differently to the bigger operators and that's what works for them and probably the taxpayer too. 

It might be inconvenient for the passenger, but then it also is inconvenient when the bigger operators decide to go home early and stop playing for the night. 
We need to remember that passengers, taxpayers, GCT and Nexus wouldn't be faced with these issues, if the bigger boys decided to play out a little longer on an evening.

I've raised a few concerns with Nexus this morning, highly unimpressed.

20:28 82 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow
21:32 82 to Birtley came flying through Barley Mow at 21:37, two minutes before it should have left the timing point in Ayton (with 81 Galleries on the blind as well)
21:28 82 from Birtley, again incorrect route through Barley Mow
22:32 to Birtley, 84 Galleries on the blind
23:28 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow

Then the 23:32 from Galleries comes flying through Barley Mow with no interior lights on, and NIS on the blind.

What a fabulous start.

(19 May 2020, 8:13 am)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]I've raised a few concerns with Nexus this morning, highly unimpressed.

20:28 82 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow
21:32 82 to Birtley came flying through Barley Mow at 21:37, two minutes before it should have left the timing point in Ayton (with 81 Galleries on the blind as well)
21:28 82 from Birtley, again incorrect route through Barley Mow
22:32 to Birtley, 84 Galleries on the blind
23:28 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow

Then the 23:32 from Galleries comes flying through Barley Mow with no interior lights on, and NIS on the blind.

What a fabulous start.

Just out of curiosity, what route did they take through Barley Mow?

(19 May 2020, 7:44 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]That 2/3% could make the difference between GCT running the service and making enough to get by or the margins being so tight, that it's not viable and they need to change their operating model. 
All of a sudden, they're going to be putting in similar bids to the bigger boys - which then defeats the point of the tendering process. 

I'm not GCT's biggest fan at all, but admire what they have achieved over a pretty short space of time. They do things differently to the bigger operators and that's what works for them and probably the taxpayer too. 

It might be inconvenient for the passenger, but then it also is inconvenient when the bigger operators decide to go home early and stop playing for the night. 
We need to remember that passengers, taxpayers, GCT and Nexus wouldn't be faced with these issues, if the bigger boys decided to play out a little longer on an evening.

This is the thing though, it should be spec'd in the tender. Not down to an operator to decide not to provide something. 

We should be making bus travel attractive, and Nexus (as the operational front of the ITA), have a key role to play in that. It's not just down to the big three operators. Arguably contactless payment, especially in the current climate, makes bus travel more attractive. It provides passenger choice, and it likely creates bus journeys that wouldn't otherwise be made - people not having change, cash on them, etc.

The 2%-3% extra (per transaction) should be more than covered by the 2% increase in BSOG rate (smart card incentive), on top of the standard BSOG payment. They're also getting an extra 6p/km for using LCEB certified buses.

(18 May 2020, 8:52 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]They can scan concession passes and the like but not Contactless (the one's I'm talking about).

(18 May 2020, 8:54 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The technology between the two is the same, so 'in theory' it would just be a software upgrade rather than a hardware limitation

No, the older machines seen in Jimmi's post cannot just have the software upgraded, operators have to upgrade to the latest machine, just as Stagecoach had to replace their smartcard enabled ERGs with the latest version. At £2,500 per machine (for Ticketer) it is a significant upgrade, especially when the machines they're replacing will not be that old to start with.

(19 May 2020, 10:41 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]This is the thing though, it should be spec'd in the tender. Not down to an operator to decide not to provide something. 

We should be making bus travel attractive, and Nexus (as the operational front of the ITA), have a key role to play in that. It's not just down to the big three operators. Arguably contactless payment, especially in the current climate, makes bus travel more attractive. It provides passenger choice, and it likely creates bus journeys that wouldn't otherwise be made - people not having change, cash on them, etc.

The 2%-3% extra (per transaction) should be more than covered by the 2% increase in BSOG rate (smart card incentive), on top of the standard BSOG payment. They're also getting an extra 6p/km for using LCEB certified buses.

Is it Nexus or GCT that sets ticket prices on contracted service, and are they similar to what GNE charges on their journeys during the day? I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be happy with a 10p increase in ticket prices to cover the cost to use contactless

I rarely even carry cash now, on occasions I may have some notes, but certainly not coins. So the fact that they don't offer contactless payments, and don't give change (whether it's a company policy or not is irrelevant, if I board the bus and they say I won't get change, I'm getting back off) means I'd be finding another way to travel.

When was the last time you went in to a shop and they didn't take contactless? Even market stalls do, so it's crazy to think they don't.

(19 May 2020, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Is it Nexus or GCT that sets ticket prices on contracted service, and are they similar to what GNE charges on their journeys during the day? I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be happy with a 10p increase in ticket prices to cover the cost to use contactless

I rarely even carry cash now, on occasions I may have some notes, but certainly not coins. So the fact that they don't offer contactless payments, and don't give change (whether it's a company policy or not is irrelevant, if I board the bus and they say I won't get change, I'm getting back off) means I'd be finding another way to travel.

When was the last time you went in to a shop and they didn't take contactless? Even market stalls do, so it's crazy to think they don't.

Nexus will set the price on a contracted service i'd imagine (as they are getting the revenue?).

The prices on nexus secured services seem very cheap, for example North Shields to Quorum is £1.65 on the 335. I'm not sure about services which are run commercially through the day though.

(19 May 2020, 8:23 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Just out of curiosity, what route did they take through Barley Mow?

Straight along Coniston/Garsdale in Vigo, missing out The Drive, the down Kentmere and left at Barley Mow Club, missing out Bedford Avenue.

(19 May 2020, 8:13 am)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]I've raised a few concerns with Nexus this morning, highly unimpressed.

20:28 82 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow
21:32 82 to Birtley came flying through Barley Mow at 21:37, two minutes before it should have left the timing point in Ayton (with 81 Galleries on the blind as well)
21:28 82 from Birtley, again incorrect route through Barley Mow
22:32 to Birtley, 84 Galleries on the blind
23:28 from Birtley incorrect route through Barley Mow

Then the 23:32 from Galleries comes flying through Barley Mow with no interior lights on, and NIS on the blind.

What a fabulous start.

Did you contact GCT with the above information?


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(19 May 2020, 10:41 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]This is the thing though, it should be spec'd in the tender. Not down to an operator to decide not to provide something. 

We should be making bus travel attractive, and Nexus (as the operational front of the ITA), have a key role to play in that. It's not just down to the big three operators. Arguably contactless payment, especially in the current climate, makes bus travel more attractive. It provides passenger choice, and it likely creates bus journeys that wouldn't otherwise be made - people not having change, cash on them, etc.

The 2%-3% extra (per transaction) should be more than covered by the 2% increase in BSOG rate (smart card incentive), on top of the standard BSOG payment. They're also getting an extra 6p/km for using LCEB certified buses.

I agree that we should be making bus travel attractive. I'm a massive believer in ensuring a wide population has access to affordable, reliable transport. I also believe that it shouldn't fall to the likes of these independents to pick up the slack nor have people expect them to provide the same on board resources/equipment and and as a consequence, similar operational overheads as the bigger boys.

I do think that going forward, contactless might be part of any Nexus spec, but seeing as this contract would have been put forward before the current situation started - there would be no urgent need to have it included already.
However, it would be interesting to see what percentage of passengers on these contracted services are needing to use contactless. I would hazard a guess that significant percentage will have day, week or monthly tickets of one sort or another already - hence the discussion around whether or not GCT should accept GNE tickets or not. I would also think that a decent proportion of passengers would have a CAT pass or equivalent.

As I say, if the bigger boys continued to play out on a night, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

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(19 May 2020, 12:32 pm)LeeCalder wrote [ -> ]Straight along Coniston/Garsdale in Vigo, missing out The Drive, the down Kentmere and left at Barley Mow Club, missing out Bedford Avenue.

So quite a decent chunk then?
Not acceptable at all. I see no valid reason at all for any parts of the route to be missed out. Deliberately or otherwise.

(19 May 2020, 1:07 pm)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]Did you contact GCT with the above information?


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I have attempted. No correspondence.

If one of the parts of the bid is does the bus have high spec features such as NSAs, Wi-Fi, charging ports etc; surely does it have contactless should be a higher priority to judge. As has been mentioned previously, many people now don't carry cash. If GNE offer contactless as standard (and have been for a number of years now) throughout the day, I can see confusion and issues developing for passengers and drivers when the service is ran by an operator without these features.

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(19 May 2020, 8:56 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]If one of the parts of the bid is does the bus have high spec features such as NSAs, Wi-Fi, charging ports etc; surely does it have contactless should be a higher priority to judge. As has been mentioned previously, many people now don't carry cash. If GNE offer contactless as standard (and have been for a number of years now) throughout the day, I can see confusion and issues developing for passengers and drivers when the service is ran by an operator without these features.

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Exactly, I think when the tender is for an evening service of a route run by another operator, there should at least be consideration for the fact that they don't have the same features, especially when it comes to ticketing, otherwise like you say there will be a lot of confusion.

GCT 39 and GNE 39 running toghter tonghit ?

Re 39 What you mean? both running together

(26 May 2020, 9:34 pm)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]Re 39 What you mean?  both running together

Apparantly, GNE were still operating their 39's at night last week.

GNE were also seen running their Covid19 times on 11/19/41/42/42A at night last week.

(27 May 2020, 1:33 pm)park5354 wrote [ -> ]Apparantly, GNE were still operating their 39's at night last week.

GNE were also seen running their Covid19 times on 11/19/41/42/42A at night last week.

What a joke these contracts have turned out to be - if Gateshead Central Taxi's can't run them, then they should be stripped of them.

Last night we had an 82 going around on the second to last run, no interior lights 'NOT IN SERVICE'. Terrible.