North East Buses

Gateshead Central Taxis have won the 83A on mornings between Heworth & Chester-le-Street according to the vosa registration on bustimes.org

I haven't been on them for awhile, but curious do the E200MMC's / Iveco's have NSA announcements now?

If I'm right, there's a legal requirement to have them as of 2 days ago but wouldn't be surprised if they haven't bothered.

(03 Oct 2024, 10:33 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I haven't been on them for awhile, but curious do the E200MMC's / Iveco's have NSA announcements now?

If I'm right, there's a legal requirement to have them as of 2 days ago but wouldn't be surprised if they haven't bothered.

Legal requirement on all buses?

(03 Oct 2024, 10:35 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Legal requirement on all buses?

Just ones which are registered after the 1st October 2019 atm, it's phased in over a few years. Doesn't affect anyone else as they've been fitting NSA's to new vehicles for awhile now bar maybe some other independents.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-r...nd-coaches

(03 Oct 2024, 10:41 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Just ones which are registered after the 1st October 2019 atm, it's phased in over a few years. Doesn't affect anyone else as they've been fitting NSA's to new vehicles for awhile now bar maybe some other independents.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-r...nd-coaches

I used 0228 (registered 2020) yesterday morning. That didn't have working NSA, and tbh I didn't notice any kit installed. According to this press article, their Stratas are configured to carry 23 passengers, so they wouldn't fall into the 'small bus' category (less than 17 passengers)?

Looking at GCT's fleet list, pretty much everything that they run should be fitted with operational next stop announcements, per the new regulations? 

• 0225-31/34/35 - 10x 20/70 plate Stratas.
  
• 0236-41 - 6x 72/23 plate I-CITY MAX that supposedly seat 25.
  
• 0312-33/35/36/37 - 25x 20/21/72/24 plate E200 MMCs
  

Does anyone know if the Durham P&R have them fitted and working?

(04 Oct 2024, 5:54 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I used 0228 (registered 2020) yesterday morning. That didn't have working NSA, and tbh I didn't notice any kit installed. According to this press article, their Stratas are configured to carry 23 passengers, so they wouldn't fall into the 'small bus' category (less than 17 passengers)?

Looking at GCT's fleet list, pretty much everything that they run should be fitted with operational next stop announcements, per the new regulations? 

• 0225-31/34/35 - 10x 20/70 plate Stratas.
  
• 0236-41 - 6x 72/23 plate I-CITY MAX that supposedly seat 25.
  
• 0312-33/35/36/37 - 25x 20/21/72/24 plate E200 MMCs
  

Does anyone know if the Durham P&R have them fitted and working?

Thanks for confirming, not surprised in the least that they haven't done it though mind. Wasn't sure on the capacity of the Strata's, mind I could imagine them being a bit cosy with 23 PAX on board.

Mind speaking of these NSA's, the school buses are a right grey area on whether they should have them aswell. Reading through the regulations there's only exceptions for closed door services and as far as I'm aware none of the services, especially in Nexus land and Durham are. If I'm right then these are going to fall under the same problem, and coaches aren't exempt either.

Be interesting to see how the likes of A Line react when they're forced to down the line in 2 year or so or whether Nexus changes the services to closed door to avoid it.

I will have to rubber neck a park and ride vehicle next time I walk past one. They rarely end up on the 62 and the same can be said for me.

I can't imagine 25 adults on one of those Ilebus jobbies. I'm a fairly small and slim woman with short legs and I'm pressing my knees into the seat in front on them.

(04 Oct 2024, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Thanks for confirming, not surprised in the least that they haven't done it though mind. Wasn't sure on the capacity of the Strata's, mind I could imagine them being a bit cosy with 23 PAX on board.

Mind speaking of these NSA's, the school buses are a right grey area on whether they should have them aswell. Reading through the regulations there's only exceptions for closed door services and as far as I'm aware none of the services, especially in Nexus land and Durham are. If I'm right then these are going to fall under the same problem, and coaches aren't exempt either.

Be interesting to see how the likes of A Line react when they're forced to down the line in 2 year or so or whether Nexus changes the services to closed door to avoid it.

Probably the least of their worries. Until 2nd November anyway.

(04 Oct 2024, 6:20 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Thanks for confirming, not surprised in the least that they haven't done it though mind. Wasn't sure on the capacity of the Strata's, mind I could imagine them being a bit cosy with 23 PAX on board.

Mind speaking of these NSA's, the school buses are a right grey area on whether they should have them aswell. Reading through the regulations there's only exceptions for closed door services and as far as I'm aware none of the services, especially in Nexus land and Durham are. If I'm right then these are going to fall under the same problem, and coaches aren't exempt either.

Be interesting to see how the likes of A Line react when they're forced to down the line in 2 year or so or whether Nexus changes the services to closed door to avoid it.

Never mind the NSAs, I’m more bothered about unsuitable buses (E200MMCs)on my route, the 351. It regularly turns up at my stop full and standing now. Although it is good to see more passengers from new estates using the bus, it would be good to have bigger buses to accommodate them.

(04 Oct 2024, 5:54 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I used 0228 (registered 2020) yesterday morning. That didn't have working NSA, and tbh I didn't notice any kit installed. According to this press article, their Stratas are configured to carry 23 passengers, so they wouldn't fall into the 'small bus' category (less than 17 passengers)?

Looking at GCT's fleet list, pretty much everything that they run should be fitted with operational next stop announcements, per the new regulations? 

• 0225-31/34/35 - 10x 20/70 plate Stratas.
  
• 0236-41 - 6x 72/23 plate I-CITY MAX that supposedly seat 25.
  
• 0312-33/35/36/37 - 25x 20/21/72/24 plate E200 MMCs
  

Does anyone know if the Durham P&R have them fitted and working?

The article linked goes on about the Orions, not Stratas - believe those quoted at least are max 20 seated passengers with 3 standees - Stratas are a similar number from what I remember.

Those Iveco Ilesbus i-City MAX's seat around 30 and allow 6 standees (unsurprisingly, the legroom is poor).

Last time I used Durham P&R about 6 months ago at least, there was no NSA kit installed.

Tbh, a lot of companies aren't yet up on these NSA stuff, especially the independents (hopefully that changes soon).

ive been on when there was 23 seated and 9 standing. it was cosy and I was sitting on the back wheel

Just to add to this, can confirm that the older Enviro 200 MMC's don't have NSA's fitted which isn't a surprise. 0333 does appear to have something fitted though, but it wasn't working which isn't a surprise either. Unsure whether the 24 plates do.

Winter service S1, half-hourly, between South Shields and Little Haven, operated by GCT, starting on Monday. Never heard of this before. Any info? Can't find anything other than on Nexus website, and that's just a timetable, no details on what it's for.

Details now on the Nexus website.

Anyone know if this is a taxibus or normal bus?

(18 Nov 2024, 2:27 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote [ -> ]Details now on the Nexus website.

Anyone know if this is a taxibus or normal bus?

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...395030.amp

More BSIP wasted again. This probably the worst out the lot as it's never going to be commercial so it's literally just throwing money away.

Who cares that you can't get a bus to North Whitley Bay on an evening though... Or if you want to cross the ferry it's been cancelled for months due to Nexus incompetence with no reasonable alternative provided.

Years ago, Northern (VFM Buses at the time) extended existing routes via this area (Mon to Sat X21 and Sun 527) to stop the wasted layover times. GNE currenrly do this route on a Sunday with the 50 by reducing the layover time. Surely an existing service could have been utilised or a simple reroute of the current 10/11/516/E1 all serving this area, albeit with a little walk.

(18 Nov 2024, 7:03 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]More BSIP wasted again. This probably the worst out the lot as it's never going to be commercial so it's literally just throwing money away.

Who cares that you can't get a bus to North Whitley Bay on an evening though... Or if you want to cross the ferry it's been cancelled for months due to Nexus incompetence with no reasonable alternative provided.

Reminds me of when that open top service ran between the town centre and seafront in South Shields back in 2013, £480 a day paid out to carry nothing vast majority of the time: http://www.foi.directory/foi-reveals-480...e-use/amp/

If there was ever a time to launch a new service down by the seafront, it's clearly in November with a weather warning for snow in place on day one!!! Not that I imagine it would do much better in July either mind.

(19 Nov 2024, 1:58 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Reminds me of when that open top service ran between the town centre and seafront in South Shields back in 2013, £480 a day paid out to carry nothing vast majority of the time: http://www.foi.directory/foi-reveals-480...e-use/amp/

If there was ever a time to launch a new service down by the seafront, it's clearly in November with a weather warning for snow in place on day one!!! Not that I imagine it would do much better in July either mind. 

First thing I noticed. 
Plus I'd have thought a Sunday run may have had some appeal. 
More so than a Thursday afternoon.

(19 Nov 2024, 10:40 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]First thing I noticed. 
Plus I'd have thought a Sunday run may have had some appeal. 
More so than a Thursday afternoon.

Sunday run wouldnt really be worth it and even bigger waste of money as the GNE 50 doea this section on Sunday daytimes on way to Marsden

(19 Nov 2024, 11:17 am)LVK 404L wrote [ -> ]Sunday run wouldnt really be worth it and even bigger waste of money as the GNE 50 doea this section on Sunday daytimes on way to Marsden

Imo the 50 should run it all the time. 

I wish GNE and the 4 Southern councils would come together and come with a fix with the Birtley / Washington area. 

Something like:
81/82: Restored to every 15 minutes combined, Birtley to Washington or Rickleton to Washington
24: Restored Newcastle to Wrekenton via Low Fell and Eighton Banks every hour
25: Restored Newcastle to Langley Park via QE Hospital every 30 minutes Newcastle to CLS, Hourly to Langley Park
50: Restored direct from CLS to Washington, time savings used to extend the service to the beach.

It worked for years commercially, it's the exact point of BSIP imo and with other improvements ie. cheaper fares, better marketing etc it should be the sort of places where growth should be possible especially with the amount of new houses been built in the areas aswell. 

I haven't worked it out but the PVR increase probably isn't too much considering there's nonsense like the 82 to the QE and this S1. The 25 and 82 should be every 30 minutes regardless. Hourly is unacceptable in urban areas imo.

(19 Nov 2024, 11:52 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Imo the 50 should run it all the time. 

I wish GNE and the 4 Southern councils would come together and come with a fix with the Birtley / Washington area. 

Something like:
81/82: Restored to every 15 minutes combined, Birtley to Washington or Rickleton to Washington
24: Restored Newcastle to Wrekenton via Low Fell and Eighton Banks every hour
25: Restored Newcastle to Langley Park via QE Hospital every 30 minutes Newcastle to CLS, Hourly to Langley Park
50: Restored direct from CLS to Washington, time savings used to extend the service to the beach.

It worked for years commercially, it's the exact point of BSIP imo and with other improvements ie. cheaper fares, better marketing etc it should be the sort of places where growth should be possible especially with the amount of new houses been built in the areas aswell. 

I haven't worked it out but the PVR increase probably isn't too much considering there's nonsense like the 82 to the QE and this S1. The 25 and 82 should be every 30 minutes regardless. Hourly is unacceptable in urban areas imo.

Alot like the 352, i dont get how a service is fine for years, then it just dies, like the 351-355 are all just wrong
351- should be half hourly (i know its now a GCT route)
352- either canned or sorted out
353- half hourly during the day
354- either canned or sorted out
355- stays the same but additionally serves Four Lane Ends, either that or swap the 354 and 355 back over again
But if something isnt done with the 352 and 355 very soon, Stagecoach will see them both off, all they'd have to do is make it every half hour on Sundays, then they'd win, but the 353/354 thing going on at Billy Mill just simply isnt needed imo, and the combined frequency on evenings and Sundays with the 57A, what the hell is all that about, then there's the 54, thats literally pointless

(19 Nov 2024, 2:13 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Alot like the 352, i dont get how a service is fine for years, then it just dies, like the 351-355 are all just wrong
351- should be half hourly (i know its now a GCT route)
352- either canned or sorted out
353- half hourly during the day
354- either canned or sorted out
355- stays the same but additionally serves Four Lane Ends, either that or swap the 354 and 355 back over again
But if something isnt done with the 352 and 355 very soon, Stagecoach will see them both off, all they'd have to do is make it every half hour on Sundays, then they'd win, but the 353/354 thing going on at Billy Mill just simply isnt needed imo, and the combined frequency on evenings and Sundays with the 57A, what the hell is all that about, then there's the 54, thats literally pointless

Yeah agreed to be honest, it's the other area which they really need to work together and do similar. All 3 councils have a part of play on them but working together still seems pretty alien.

Personally there I'd say

19: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, hourly evenings
57A: Terminate short at Whitley Bay, Evenings and Sundays
317: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, downgraded to Hourly Evenings + Sundays
351: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, Hourly Evenings + Sundays
352: Withdrawn (37)
353: Full route, every 30 minutes, hourly evenings
354/359: Possible to merge these somehow? Not too sure on these.
W2: Withdrawn, mostly replaced by 351

18: Extend to Wallsend, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, hourly evenings
Q3: Terminate all short at St Peter's.

Much better than what we've got now and everything is a massive improvement for the communities that they serve where hourly services again imo are pointless. It's where BSIP should be spent. They were all pretty much commercial until recently it's not as if it's doing stuff out of nowhere imo.

GCT should be used to getting paid for doing nowt, was it not them that ran the covid service to washington carrying not a soul

(19 Nov 2024, 2:27 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah agreed to be honest, it's the other area which they really need to work together and do similar. All 3 councils have a part of play on them but working together still seems pretty alien.

Personally there I'd say

19: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, hourly evenings
57A: Terminate short at Whitley Bay, Evenings and Sundays
317: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, downgraded to Hourly Evenings + Sundays
351: Full route, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, Hourly Evenings + Sundays
352: Withdrawn (37)
353: Killingworth to North Shields, every 30 minutes, hourly evenings
354/359: Possible to merge these somehow? Not too sure on these.
W2: Withdrawn, mostly replaced by 351

18: Extend to Wallsend, every 30 minutes M-S Daytimes, hourly evenings
Q3: Terminate all short at St Peter's.

Much better than what we've got now and everything is a massive improvement for the communities that they serve where hourly services again imo are pointless. It's where BSIP should be spent. They were all pretty much commercial until recently it's not as if it's doing stuff out of nowhere imo.

I'd keep the 353 but maybe run via NESCH & High Pit.

If anything.....I think it's overkill having deckers every 30 mins to Morpeth on the 43 and I don't know if Arriva will get the full PVR of EV's taking into account the extension.

Operator aside and a bit of a shame that Arriva didn't think of this, but an extension of the 353 to Morpeth (instead of the 43) would actually work.

(19 Nov 2024, 9:42 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I'd keep the 353 but maybe run via NESCH & High Pit.

If anything.....I think it's overkill having deckers every 30 mins to Morpeth on the 43 and I don't know if Arriva will get the full PVR of EV's taking into account the extension.

Operator aside and a bit of a shame that Arriva didn't think of this, but an extension of the 353 to Morpeth (instead of the 43) would actually work.

Edited that, it was a mistake with the 353, was meant to be the full route.

To be fair the service used to go to Morpeth, was Morpeth to Whitley Bay for years with the 343/344. Just the timings with it that's the problem as it's like 35 minutes from Morpeth to Cramlington and it uses the 43 layover to get the PVR down, it would be better being split though imo. I'm surprised they didn't do it when closing Jesmond though, the 53 always seemed quite a strong little route and it would've kept their monopoly in Cramlington and around Billy Mill pretty much.

Mind it'll be interesting to see if they go for the 19 in the future. The thing is a right little minefield competing against them around here lately, probably in their best interests to run it tbh, especially considering the 57/57a might aswell not bother with a timetable.

(19 Nov 2024, 9:58 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Edited that, it was a mistake with the 353, was meant to be the full route.

To be fair the service used to go to Morpeth, was Morpeth to Whitley Bay for years with the 343/344. Just the timings with it that's the problem as it's like 35 minutes from Morpeth to Cramlington and it uses the 43 layover to get the PVR down, it would be better being split though imo. I'm surprised they didn't do it when closing Jesmond though, the 53 always seemed quite a strong little route and it would've kept their monopoly in Cramlington and around Billy Mill pretty much.

Mind it'll be interesting to see if they go for the 19 in the future. The thing is a right little minefield competing against them around here lately, probably in their best interests to run it tbh, especially considering the 57/57a might aswell not bother with a timetable.

If GoNE ever did go back to the "begging bowl", I think Arriva would do a decent job with an extended 53/353 to Morpeth. Could be do-able with a PVR of 7x perhaps with a 3hr 30m round trip? Although if they served NSECH and High Pit, would probably take PVR to 8x although could use BSIP for the hospital link.

(19 Nov 2024, 10:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]If GoNE ever did go back to the "begging bowl", I think Arriva would do a decent job with an extended 53/353 to Morpeth. Could be do-able with a PVR of 7x perhaps with a 3hr 30m round trip? Although if they served NSECH and High Pit, would probably take PVR to 8x although could use BSIP for the hospital link.

Yeah it would be a PVR of 7 if I'm right. Not sure how you'd make that work in terms of drivers hours though mind.

(19 Nov 2024, 9:42 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I'd keep the 353 but maybe run via NESCH & High Pit.

If anything.....I think it's overkill having deckers every 30 mins to Morpeth on the 43 and I don't know if Arriva will get the full PVR of EV's taking into account the extension.

Operator aside and a bit of a shame that Arriva didn't think of this, but an extension of the 353 to Morpeth (instead of the 43) would actually work.

Many moons ago that is what the 353 used to do when it was the 343/344, 343 was Whitley-Morpeth, 344 was Whitley-Cramlington offering a regular service, there was also the 355 Whitley-Newcastle i think Forest Hall-Shiremoor had ridiculously frequent service to Whitley at one point, now it has pretty much nout, but in 2012 Arriva part redeemed themselves with the 53/53A, but that only lasted a year, then it became what it was up until last year

(20 Nov 2024, 8:40 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah it would be a PVR of 7 if I'm right. Not sure how you'd make that work in terms of drivers hours though mind.

Well I'd say anything 3hr+ is decent time behind the wheel.

A PVR of 7x would be 3hr 30m and depending on how the breaks would happen in Morpeth, would still give ample time if needing to drive to / from Ashington.