(17 May 2022, 11:04 pm)Acky81 wrote [ -> ]Pointless sending the 39 up to houghton le spring. People can use the 20 and walk from Durham road
I’ve read that as being a few peak time services, maybe two runs in each direction per weekday I’m guessing. It’s also another change that’ll no doubt get cut after mere months of being introduced.
(17 May 2022, 11:02 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]I’ve been taking time to review the full list before making detailed comments, but I think we all well expected lots of these cuts. What really sticks out is the fact it’s not a year since the “getting buses fit for the future”. A few points from me.
Service 65
A big uplift in September 2022, later evening and Sunday buses for the first time in about a decade but 8 months in they’re wanting to cut it back? As people have said above; it hasn’t yet had the summer period to monitor passenger loads, both ends of the route during summer could have boosted Sunday services. I also distinctly remember being told to expect a ‘marketing campaign’ for this service, but I’ve never seen any promotional material about it.
Don’t get me started on the idea of a ‘two hourly’ service!! Night buses maybe but not for daytimes.
Service 62
Essentially this was just the 202 that had ran for years previously but with an extension to Sunderland. The interworking with X6 meant departure times to/from Sunderland were useless, X6/62 pretty much within 10 minutes of each other, there was little point from the start.
Murton
62 up for the axe and the 61 losing an bus each hour leaves Murton with fewer bus links and fewer connections - no direct bus to Peterlee, South Hetton, Spectrum Business Park.
I can remember when the 61 was every 15 minutes - it’s another which seems to have went the way of the 35; constant tinkering which has put passengers off. In the last ten years the 61 has numerous brand names, different coloured buses and vehicles types:
* Green ‘Drifter’ Cadets
* Purple ‘SimpliCity’ Versas
* Silver ‘unbranded’ Citaros
* Red ‘Black Cats’ Streetlites/Solars
* Changed to the ‘The 9’ with Red/Blue Citaros
* Back to the 61, Now branded as ‘Blue’ but still without blue buses.
If we’re saying branding works, having multiple colours, names and vehicles surely can’t be helping?
South Hetton
They’ll go from five buses per hour as is now to two buses although in fairness the X1 has added extra bus just recently. But it’s also about lost connections,if these changes go ahead mixed with previous cuts direct links to Durham, Seaham, Dalton Park, Horden, Easington Colliery, Sunderland and Doxford International all lost.
One of the other issues with the 61 now is its in a somewhat over-saturated market with other services running along the same corridor(s), between Murton and Dalton Park (albeit with slight differences) there's currently 7 buses an hour (61: 3ph - 62: 1ph - 65: 2ph - X1: 1ph), between Dalton Park and Sunderland you have Arriva competing with a 15 minute frequency on the 22/23 with GNE having a 20 min frequency on the 61 (plus between the two locations you also have the 62 & X6 thrown into the mix) and other GNE services in parts the rest of the way like the 60, 65 & 39/39A.
I do wonder if the fact the 61 goes against the grain of many of its contemporaries in Sunderland by looping round via Burdon Road & Holmeside instead of going straight into Park Lane Interchange has an affect on things?
(17 May 2022, 11:02 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]I’ve been taking time to review the full list before making detailed comments, but I think we all well expected lots of these cuts. What really sticks out is the fact it’s not a year since the “getting buses fit for the future”. A few points from me.
Service 65
A big uplift in September 2022, later evening and Sunday buses for the first time in about a decade but 8 months in they’re wanting to cut it back? As people have said above; it hasn’t yet had the summer period to monitor passenger loads, both ends of the route during summer could have boosted Sunday services. I also distinctly remember being told to expect a ‘marketing campaign’ for this service, but I’ve never seen any promotional material about it.
Don’t get me started on the idea of a ‘two hourly’ service!! Night buses maybe but not for daytimes.
Service 62
Essentially this was just the 202 that had ran for years previously but with an extension to Sunderland. The interworking with X6 meant departure times to/from Sunderland were useless, X6/62 pretty much within 10 minutes of each other, there was little point from the start.
Murton
62 up for the axe and the 61 losing an bus each hour leaves Murton with fewer bus links and fewer connections - no direct bus to Peterlee, South Hetton, Spectrum Business Park.
I can remember when the 61 was every 15 minutes - it’s another which seems to have went the way of the 35; constant tinkering which has put passengers off. In the last ten years the 61 has numerous brand names, different coloured buses and vehicles types:
* Green ‘Drifter’ Cadets
* Purple ‘SimpliCity’ Versas
* Silver ‘unbranded’ Citaros
* Red ‘Black Cats’ Streetlites/Solars
* Changed to the ‘The 9’ with Red/Blue Citaros
* Back to the 61, Now branded as ‘Blue’ but still without blue buses.
If we’re saying branding works, having multiple colours, names and vehicles surely can’t be helping?
South Hetton
They’ll go from five buses per hour as is now to two buses although in fairness the X1 has added extra bus just recently. But it’s also about lost connections,if these changes go ahead mixed with previous cuts direct links to Durham, Seaham, Dalton Park, Horden, Easington Colliery, Sunderland and Doxford International all lost.
The Sundays 65's haven't done badly at all, South Hetton is a place bus companies don't understand at all, it's the local links that are more important than the X1 frequency
(18 May 2022, 12:10 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]I do wonder if the fact the 61 goes against the grain of many of its contemporaries in Sunderland by looping round via Burdon Road & Holmeside instead of going straight into Park Lane Interchange has an affect on things?
61 does affect people travel, i have heard many people say when there on the 62 going to Sunderland when I have been on it from easington that is quicker than the 61, as the 61 goes around and takes an extra 5 mins to Park lane, it could keep the 4 PVR go down to every 15 mins and stop looping around.
65 does great numbers on a sunday, after 8am yes.
Also with the 9 & 61 every hour on Week nights, I have a feeling the 61 & 9 will interwork with the 60. I don't see why 61 was branded in Simpliciyy from the first place it literally follows 50% of the 60's route.
But also the 61 could serve the Avenue & Station Road.
(18 May 2022, 12:10 am)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]One of the other issues with the 61 now is its in a somewhat over-saturated market with other services running along the same corridor(s), between Murton and Dalton Park (albeit with slight differences) there's currently 7 buses an hour (61: 3ph - 62: 1ph - 65: 2ph - X1: 1ph), between Dalton Park and Sunderland you have Arriva competing with a 15 minute frequency on the 22/23 with GNE having a 20 min frequency on the 61 (plus between the two locations you also have the 62 & X6 thrown into the mix) and other GNE services in parts the rest of the way like the 60, 65 & 39/39A.
I do wonder if the fact the 61 goes against the grain of many of its contemporaries in Sunderland by looping round via Burdon Road & Holmeside instead of going straight into Park Lane Interchange has an affect on things?
Could drop the 39/39A to half hourly on the 39A route and renumber it the 2B maybe instead and have the 2's working every 10 minutes. Would be every 30 minutes out of Washington towards Sunderland so not that bad timing wise.
Then have the 61 running every 20 minutes in-between them so it's a 5 / 10 service along there. Seems more sensible than it running as an oddbod service.
The 39/39A mostly duplicates things anyway including Stagecoach services. Whatever happened to the BSIP as there still seems to be a lot of protecting routes with the Coast Road services and now these. Not to mention the 33 which duplicates either the Stagecoach 12 or 13 throughout (forgot which).
(18 May 2022, 6:28 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Could drop the 39/39A to half hourly on the 39A route and renumber it the 2B maybe instead and have the 2's working every 10 minutes. Would be every 30 minutes out of Washington towards Sunderland so not that bad timing wise.
Then have the 61 running every 20 minutes in-between them so it's a 5 / 10 service along there. Seems more sensible than it running as an oddbod service.
The 39/39A mostly duplicates things anyway including Stagecoach services. Whatever happened to the BSIP as there still seems to be a lot of protecting routes with the Coast Road services and now these. Not to mention the 33 which duplicates either the Stagecoach 12 or 13 throughout (forgot which).
I would drop the 39/39a between town and pennywell, Chester road is covered by other services plus the 20 in pennywell, and could if needed maybe extend from Doxford international via back of Farringdon where the 55 went to board inn then along to Herrington burn then newbottle then down to burnside into Houghton
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If you assume they need to add an extra bus on the 39 to Houghton for the sole purpose of keeping a link from Houghton to Doxford, I don't see why you wouldn't stick it on the X20 instead - They could then link Durham, Langley Park, Houghton and Sunderland with Doxford.
There would also be enough time to sort out any reliability issues with the extra bus in there.
(18 May 2022, 6:48 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I would drop the 39/39a between town and pennywell, Chester road is covered by other services plus the 20 in pennywell, and could if needed maybe extend from Doxford international via back of Farringdon where the 55 went to board inn then along to Herrington burn then newbottle then down to burnside into Houghton
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Not a bad shout really tbh. I'd probably be tempted to drop the 2/2A between Sunderland and Silksworth and create a loop service to replace both of them, creating more links for more people and making the 35 useful aswell as it's just the awkward route along Chester Road aswell similar to the 61.
https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=1831&pid=276395#pid276395 - Details there, don't want to derail this thread again.
One change that sticks out at me is the 1,wasnt it only back in March the 1 was threatened to be cut,now they're proposing extending it
(18 May 2022, 2:05 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]One change that sticks out at me is the 1,wasnt it only back in March the 1 was threatened to be cut,now they're proposing extending it
No, only late evening journeys were proposed to be cut - these were then secured by Nexus.
(18 May 2022, 2:05 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]One change that sticks out at me is the 1,wasnt it only back in March the 1 was threatened to be cut,now they're proposing extending it
I believe this will be the third time that the 1 was been extended to Low Fell and Wrekenton. Let’s see how long it lasts this time.
(18 May 2022, 2:21 pm)Boggle wrote [ -> ]I believe this will be the third time that the 1 was been extended to Low Fell and Wrekenton. Let’s see how long it lasts this time.
November.
'Due to passenger feedback which states passengers prefer using Eldon Square, the 1 will no longer operate between Gateshead and Wrekenton via Allerdene and Harlow Green. Passengers in Allerdene are advised to thumb a lift up to Allerdene Bridge or the Aletaster and wait for a 21. Our new partnership with Go Outdoors and the latest incarnation of our smart card, means you can get 6% off the price of a sledge and make those snowy walks back down the hill, much more fun.
For those on Waverely Road, we advise you to sign up to our innovative car share scheme and contribute to the queues of traffic on Old Durham Road, Kells Lane or Durham Road'.
I know it’s symptomatic of the world we live in where profit is all that matters to organisations such as GNE but these proposed changes are hard to digest. The removal of the 25 cuts long established links from Portobello to Newcastle, not to mention Sacriston, Langley Park etc. Maybe the previous changes to the 25 diverting it via Low Fell were an attempt to make it less attractive and justify its cancellation. The loss of all buses to Kibblesworth is terrible for the village. Yes, I doubt they make much money for GNE but they are vital services particularly for the older population of the village. Loss of the 69 cuts links which have existed for decades.
These changes further dilute choose from Low Fell to being able to go to Newcastle or Durham but nowhere else. Years ago, there were direct buses to Washington, Sunderland, Darlington, Hartlepool and the Metrocentre amongst other places. All gone. I, and many others, regularly travelled to the Metrocentre by bus when the 183, later the 77 ran. I haven’t done so since the service was withdrawn. It’s 100% a car journey for me now. I occasionally use the 69 for hospital visits and appointments at present, that will also now be 100% done by car if that service is withdrawn.
It’s hard to fathom the rationale behind thinking that people will continue to use a less convenient and likely more expensive service.
Still, I guess cutting these services will ensure that the paint budget remains in place.
(18 May 2022, 2:31 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]November.
'Due to passenger feedback which states passengers prefer using Eldon Square, the 1 will no longer operate between Gateshead and Wrekenton via Allerdene and Harlow Green. Passengers in Allerdene are advised to thumb a lift up to Allerdene Bridge or the Aletaster and wait for a 21. Our new partnership with Go Outdoors and the latest incarnation of our smart card, means you can get 6% off the price of a sledge and make those snowy walks back down the hill, much more fun.
For those on Waverely Road, we advise you to sign up to our innovative car share scheme and contribute to the queues of traffic on Old Durham Road, Kells Lane or Durham Road'.
Have you ever fancied a job in GNE’s PR team?
(18 May 2022, 2:31 pm)Boggle wrote [ -> ]I know it’s symptomatic of the world we live in where profit is all that matters to organisations such as GNE but these proposed changes are hard to digest. The removal of the 25 cuts long established links from Portobello to Newcastle, not to mention Sacriston, Langley Park etc. Maybe the previous changes to the 25 diverting it via Low Fell were an attempt to make it less attractive and justify its cancellation. The loss of all buses to Kibblesworth is terrible for the village. Yes, I doubt they make much money for GNE but they are vital services particularly for the older population of the village. Loss of the 69 cuts links which have existed for decades.
It's also removing a direct bus from Murton (No, I don't class Dalton Park as being part of Murton) to Peterlee which has existed in some form (be it the 152, 62, 162, 202 or 62 v2) since at least the 1980s, and reducing our bus to Sunderland to twice an hour, down from 4 times an hour currently.
Currently expecting in a few months' (or possibly a year's) time to see this:
"
Sunderland District Blue 61:
- Due to low passenger numbers, this service will be withdrawn."
As someone who will always advocate for public transport, a car is looking
incredibly desirable right now. #BusBackBetter #BeterThanEver #FitForTheFuture
Could the X30 not be re-extended to Lanchester (replacing the 6) with the X31 extended to Langley Park via Sacriston realacing parts of the 25? Would need something to release 6336/37 from Riverside but would actually offer a quicker service than the current 25 as well as restoring the Lanchester to Newcastle link.
Not sure where to post this so I'll post it here but just a trail of thought here but is it just me which things the GNE network in general is broken in areas. There seems to be a massive obsession with having one primary route that does one route then everywhere else streets away just rots.
Just picking on the 21 as it's one of the worst for it surely a better well designed network like pretty much every other network including Arriva (see 43, 44, 45, 46 up the GNR for an example) would be to split it up into individual routes such as:
R1 - Newcastle to Brandon (2bph)
R2 - Newcastle to Langley Park splitting at Chester le Street (2bph)
R3 - Newcastle to Washington via 82 route splitting at Birtley (2bph)
R4 - Newcastle to Pelton via 28 route after Birtley (2bph)
R5 - Newcastle to Kibblesworth after Harlow Green (1bph)
R6 - Newcastle to Eighton Banks after Harlow Green (1bph)
(These are just examples not suggestions, don't want to discuss where they go it's not the point of the post)
Surely this provides a better service for everyone with 10 BPH between Harlow Green and Newcastle (R1 - 6), 8 BPH to Birtley (R1 - 4) and 4 BPH (R1 - R2) to Chester Le Street with all the local communities which are now getting hammered because they can't pick up punters as they're on longer routes going around the world where there's no passengers being cut. 25/28/29 in particular and removes duplicates which was supposedly a point of the BSIP not to mention loads of new direct connections. I haven't worked it out but the PVR has to be lower than the current 21/25/28/29 combined or close and almost everyone wins with mostly quicker services (CLS the only loser but they've got the X21 anyway). Instead there's 4 buses just running to CLS on one corridor and terminating yet everywhere else in Birtley and CLS has no service, at all, now to Newcastle. If they were all numbered in a block say the 20's then people going to Low Fell know to just get any 20 bus it's not exactly confusing.
Similar could be said for the rest of the Washington locals where there's minibuses running around struggling and 15 minute corridors next door just passing by not picking up people surely routes could be changed to get arid of them altogether, people don't want to change buses. There's other areas aswell which are the same.
(18 May 2022, 3:44 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not sure where to post this so I'll post it here but just a trail of thought here but is it just me which things the GNE network in general is broken in areas. There seems to be a massive obsession with having one primary route that does one route then everywhere else streets away just rots.
Just picking on the 21 as it's one of the worst for it surely a better well designed network like pretty much every other network including Arriva (see 43, 44, 45, 46 up the GNR for an example) would be to split it up into individual routes such as:
R1 - Newcastle to Brandon (2bph)
R2 - Newcastle to Langley Park splitting at Chester le Street (2bph)
R3 - Newcastle to Washington via 82 route splitting at Birtley (2bph)
R4 - Newcastle to Pelton via 28 route after Birtley (2bph)
R5 - Newcastle to Kibblesworth after Harlow Green (1bph)
R6 - Newcastle to Eighton Banks after Harlow Green (1bph)
(These are just examples not suggestions, don't want to discuss where they go it's not the point of the post)
Surely this provides a better service for everyone with 10 BPH between Harlow Green and Newcastle (R1 - 6), 8 BPH to Birtley (R1 - 4) and 4 BPH (R1 - R2) to Chester Le Street with all the local communities which are now getting hammered because they can't pick up punters as they're on longer routes going around the world where there's no passengers being cut. 25/28/29 in particular and removes duplicates which was supposedly a point of the BSIP not to mention loads of new direct connections. I haven't worked it out but the PVR has to be lower than the current 21/25/28/29 combined or close and almost everyone wins with mostly quicker services (CLS the only loser but they've got the X21 anyway). Instead there's 4 buses just running to CLS on one corridor and terminating yet everywhere else in Birtley and CLS has no service, at all, now to Newcastle. If they were all numbered in a block say the 20's then people going to Low Fell know to just get any 20 bus it's not exactly confusing.
Similar could be said for the rest of the Washington locals where there's minibuses running around struggling and 15 minute corridors next door just passing by not picking up people surely routes could be changed to get arid of them altogether, people don't want to change buses. There's other areas aswell which are the same.
You could do 21/22/23/24/25/26. With the 26 being renumbered, so it could be 17/18/19 (5,26,24)
(18 May 2022, 3:44 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Not sure where to post this so I'll post it here but just a trail of thought here but is it just me which things the GNE network in general is broken in areas. There seems to be a massive obsession with having one primary route that does one route then everywhere else streets away just rots.
Just picking on the 21 as it's one of the worst for it surely a better well designed network like pretty much every other network including Arriva (see 43, 44, 45, 46 up the GNR for an example) would be to split it up into individual routes such as:
R1 - Newcastle to Brandon (2bph)
R2 - Newcastle to Langley Park splitting at Chester le Street (2bph)
R3 - Newcastle to Washington via 82 route splitting at Birtley (2bph)
R4 - Newcastle to Pelton via 28 route after Birtley (2bph)
R5 - Newcastle to Kibblesworth after Harlow Green (1bph)
R6 - Newcastle to Eighton Banks after Harlow Green (1bph)
(These are just examples not suggestions, don't want to discuss where they go it's not the point of the post)
Surely this provides a better service for everyone with 10 BPH between Harlow Green and Newcastle (R1 - 6), 8 BPH to Birtley (R1 - 4) and 4 BPH (R1 - R2) to Chester Le Street with all the local communities which are now getting hammered because they can't pick up punters as they're on longer routes going around the world where there's no passengers being cut. 25/28/29 in particular and removes duplicates which was supposedly a point of the BSIP not to mention loads of new direct connections. I haven't worked it out but the PVR has to be lower than the current 21/25/28/29 combined or close and almost everyone wins with mostly quicker services (CLS the only loser but they've got the X21 anyway). Instead there's 4 buses just running to CLS on one corridor and terminating yet everywhere else in Birtley and CLS has no service, at all, now to Newcastle. If they were all numbered in a block say the 20's then people going to Low Fell know to just get any 20 bus it's not exactly confusing.
Similar could be said for the rest of the Washington locals where there's minibuses running around struggling and 15 minute corridors next door just passing by not picking up people surely routes could be changed to get arid of them altogether, people don't want to change buses. There's other areas aswell which are the same.
If you replace loads of infrequent services with one main bus route at a high frequency thorugh the middle of where people live, then that would normally mean you should attract more people within walking distance of the main road than you lose by not diverting off the main drags. Given how frequent the 21 remains between Chester and Newcastle, that would lend credence to the idea that removing routes such as the 777, 721 etc were, on balance, the right thing to do.
(18 May 2022, 6:48 am)cbma06 wrote [ -> ]I would drop the 39/39a between town and pennywell, Chester road is covered by other services plus the 20 in pennywell, and could if needed maybe extend from Doxford international via back of Farringdon where the 55 went to board inn then along to Herrington burn then newbottle then down to burnside into Houghton
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Really the 39 could be an attempt to get GNE more links from Farringdon, Thorney, Doxford Park.
The you could have the 40 from Sunderland Park Lane, to Pennywell but not via chester road.
Also wasn't the September changes to get ready for the future.
This basically shows GNE are a shambles.